| Revision as of 16:32, 22 January 2020 editAndrew Lancaster (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers40,380 edits →Skeptical scholars need to be included← Previous edit | Revision as of 16:41, 22 January 2020 edit undoAustronesier (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers26,285 edits →(Sub-)Section "Languages": new sectionNext edit → | ||
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| :'''Big picture'''. But the bigger point to make is that the article is not really structured and complete in any way, and never has been. Once we explain how all the pieces fit together it will not look like anyone is blocking anything. Lot to do though! | :'''Big picture'''. But the bigger point to make is that the article is not really structured and complete in any way, and never has been. Once we explain how all the pieces fit together it will not look like anyone is blocking anything. Lot to do though! | ||
| :'''Practical'''. I am starting with the lead. This is often where controversial articles need the most thought.--] (]) 16:32, 22 January 2020 (UTC) | :'''Practical'''. I am starting with the lead. This is often where controversial articles need the most thought.--] (]) 16:32, 22 January 2020 (UTC) | ||
| == (Sub-)Section "Languages" == | |||
| (No, it's not just because I'm a linguist) I noticed that the "Languages" section has disappeared. Apparently, it was outforked by Krakkos as part of "Early Germanic culture". That's of course nonsense, since language is not part of culture. Who knows, maybe with the rationale: "Look, even the "modern Germanic peoples" have a shared culture, viz. their languages". Maybe not. | |||
| In any case, there should be a short independent section about what we know (and speculate) about the languages of the ''Germani''. –] (]) 16:41, 22 January 2020 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 16:41, 22 January 2020
Skeptical scholars need to be included
I don't have a lot of time and haven't read the draft, but I'd like to note that scholars who doubt that there were Germanic peoples as such need to be included. Walter Goffart has an entire chapter of Barbarian Tides titled "And none of them were Germans". I will try to find some relevant quotes later in the day/week.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:38, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
- To add: Goffart specifically denies any commonality among the Germanic peoples post-Roman contact, which is a distinct position to supposing they had no cultural commonality before contact. For Goffart "Germanic peoples" are a 19th century construct.--Ermenrich (talk) 16:28, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
- (edit conflict with the addition) I agree. Thanks. Specifically here I understand you are talking about the critics of the traditionskern concept associated with the Vienna school. He was in fact mentioned I think by me in passing in response to Krakkos's demand for a definition of the "post Wenskus" generation. (So this has been touched on in a very dysfunctional way!) Their focus is upon the tradition to the new peoples of late antiquity and the early middle ages as I understand it, and this should be in the structure.
- Big picture. But the bigger point to make is that the article is not really structured and complete in any way, and never has been. Once we explain how all the pieces fit together it will not look like anyone is blocking anything. Lot to do though!
- Practical. I am starting with the lead. This is often where controversial articles need the most thought.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 16:32, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
(Sub-)Section "Languages"
(No, it's not just because I'm a linguist) I noticed that the "Languages" section has disappeared. Apparently, it was outforked by Krakkos as part of "Early Germanic culture". That's of course nonsense, since language is not part of culture. Who knows, maybe with the rationale: "Look, even the "modern Germanic peoples" have a shared culture, viz. their languages". Maybe not.
In any case, there should be a short independent section about what we know (and speculate) about the languages of the Germani. –Austronesier (talk) 16:41, 22 January 2020 (UTC)