Talk:Saint Patrick: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 18:37, 16 March 2020 editGlaaaastonbury88 (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users619 edits →Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2020 ← Previous edit		Revision as of 22:28, 16 March 2020 edit undoShtove (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users4,419 edits →Germanus and Catocus Tag: 2017 wikitext editor Next edit →
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	:What 19th century sources are you getting this from? It's very likely that Palladius was an associate of Germanus, as according to Prosper Germanus was sent to Britain by Celestine on the recommendation of a deacon called Palladius, and the same pope then appointed Palladius, presumably the same one, as the first bishop to the Irish. Perhaps your source thought Palladius and Patrick were the same person? --] (]) 11:44, 10 March 2020 (UTC)		:What 19th century sources are you getting this from? It's very likely that Palladius was an associate of Germanus, as according to Prosper Germanus was sent to Britain by Celestine on the recommendation of a deacon called Palladius, and the same pope then appointed Palladius, presumably the same one, as the first bishop to the Irish. Perhaps your source thought Palladius and Patrick were the same person? --] (]) 11:44, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
	::Thanks Here's one discussing Patrick in Germanus's mission - the lengthy '''note a''' at the foot of p.21: https://archive.org/details/councilsecclesia01hadduoft/page/21/mode/1up		::Thanks. Here's one discussing Patrick in Germanus's mission - the lengthy '''note a''' at the foot of p.21: https://archive.org/details/councilsecclesia01hadduoft/page/21/mode/1up
	::It does cover your suggestion of mistaking one for the other. I have somewhere another source that accepts the possible mistake at face value, but can't find it just now - and it's likely that source hasn't considered the possibility.		::It does cover your suggestion of mistaking one for the other. I have somewhere another source that accepts the possible mistake at face value, but can't find it just now - and it's likely that source hasn't considered the possibility.
	::Any inklings about Cattug/Catocus/Catwg in respect of that mission? Shtove 16:31, 10 March 2020 (UTC)		::Any inklings about Cattug/Catocus/Catwg in respect of that mission? Shtove 16:31, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
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	:::No idea about Catocus. The only person of that name I'm aware of is St. ], who is supposed to have lived the following century. --] (]) 19:15, 10 March 2020 (UTC)		:::No idea about Catocus. The only person of that name I'm aware of is St. ], who is supposed to have lived the following century. --] (]) 19:15, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
			::::Cheers! And I've reached the same conclusion on Catocus. The query arose from the stone carvings at Lady St Mary's in Wareham, which seemed to stir up some aboriginal Wessex sentiment back in the day. Shtove 22:28, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

	== Potential Birthplaces in Somerset and links to Glastonbury, UK ==		== Potential Birthplaces in Somerset and links to Glastonbury, UK ==

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St. Patrick's Birthplace, Place of Burial and Shrines

There is absolutely no definitive, provable birthplace or place of burial for Patrick. Surely it makes sense to use the term "possibly" along with suggestions of various, debated places of origin? E.g. "Possibly Roman Britain", "Possibly Roman France". On the subject of major shrines, surely major Irish shrines should be listed? (Croagh Patrick, for example?) Thanks.

Semi-protected edit request on 22 May 2019

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Can you please check this: St. Patrick died about 460/461 as the article says but the date of his death given on the top says 385- 431.

Thank you. 109.255.91.39 (talk) 19:21, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for spotting that! Those incorrect years had been recently added and had been overlooked. – Þjarkur (talk) 20:39, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Germanus and Catocus

In tracing the mission of Germanus of Auxerre to Britain in 429, I've come across 19thc. scholarship that refers to Cattug/Catocus/Catwg as a member of that mission along with Patrick, with a suggestion that Catocus also turned up in Ireland. I can't find the sources for these assertions, and am wondering if there's any substance to them. Shtove 00:59, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

What 19th century sources are you getting this from? It's very likely that Palladius was an associate of Germanus, as according to Prosper Germanus was sent to Britain by Celestine on the recommendation of a deacon called Palladius, and the same pope then appointed Palladius, presumably the same one, as the first bishop to the Irish. Perhaps your source thought Palladius and Patrick were the same person? --Nicknack009 (talk) 11:44, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Here's one discussing Patrick in Germanus's mission - the lengthy note a at the foot of p.21: https://archive.org/details/councilsecclesia01hadduoft/page/21/mode/1up

It does cover your suggestion of mistaking one for the other. I have somewhere another source that accepts the possible mistake at face value, but can't find it just now - and it's likely that source hasn't considered the possibility.

Any inklings about Cattug/Catocus/Catwg in respect of that mission? Shtove 16:31, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Now I see where you're coming from. There is a tradition, found in Fiacc's Hymn and many of the medieval lives of Patrick, that after he escaped from slavery, he went to the continent and studied with Germanus and others. Victorian scholars tended to regard these medieval Irish texts as historical sources. Most modern scholars don't. The only authentic sources on Patrick are his Confession and Letter, which make no reference to Germanus. The later sources are all unreliable and unverifiable. In particular, the traditions associating him with Germanus, as your link points out, most likely derive from a confusion between Patrick and Palladius.

No idea about Catocus. The only person of that name I'm aware of is St. Cadoc, who is supposed to have lived the following century. --Nicknack009 (talk) 19:15, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Cheers! And I've reached the same conclusion on Catocus. The query arose from the stone carvings at Lady St Mary's in Wareham, which seemed to stir up some aboriginal Wessex sentiment back in the day. Shtove 22:28, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Potential Birthplaces in Somerset and links to Glastonbury, UK

There are a few pieces of information that may add to the richness of the article and relate to potential birth places within Somerset. One being Banwell as outlined in the book "Saint Patrick's Somerset Birthplace: A Serious Study into the Birthplace of Saint Patrick in the Fifth Century Paperback – 1 Mar 1998" by Harry Jelly. Bannaventa Berniae has been debated and one explanation is it translates into Banwell, not far from the Bristol Channel and easy enough to access during a raid.

Although theory (like most of St.Patricks life) there was a local article that included a depute between local historians as to what My Jelly believed to be a cross in the Earth that may have been linked to St.Pattick.

There are also strong local links from Glastonbury - with some even claiming that St.Patrick was buried within the Abbey grounds next to the high alter, with some believing this is why Glastonbury was popular among Irish pilgrims, but was also documented by the honourable William of Malmesbury in his document "De antiquitate Glastoniensis ecclesiae (Concerning the Antiquity of Glastonbury)" that was compiled between 1129-35. The Abbey also has a chapel named after St.Patrick which is a sight of pilgrimage to this day.

The Glastonbury Shrine to Our Lady (the Catholic Church opposite the Abbey) also has a bit of information on the possible link between St.Patrick and Glastonbury, Somerset.

Sources: http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/artgue/guestjelley.htm https://www.thewestonmercury.co.uk/news/st-patrick-in-banwell-riddle-1-312946 https://clasmerdin.blogspot.com/2015/08/st-patrick-at-glastonbury.html http://www.glastonburyshrine.co.uk/Shrine/StPatrick.php

Thank you in advance. comment added by Glaaaastonbury88

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