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This is an informal place to resolve content disputes as part of dispute resolution. It may also be used as a tool to direct certain discussions to more appropriate forums, such as requests for comment, or other noticeboards. You can ask a question on the talk page. This is an early stop for most disputes on Misplaced Pages. You are not required to participate, however, the case filer must participate in all aspects of the dispute or the matter will be considered failed. Any editor may volunteer! Click this button to add your name! You don't need to volunteer to help. Please feel free to comment below on any case. Be civil and remember; Maintain Misplaced Pages policy: it is usually a misuse of a talk page to continue to argue any point that has not met policy requirements. Editors must take particular care adding information about living persons to any Misplaced Pages page. This may also apply to some groups.

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Current disputes

1987 Icelandic parliamentary election

Resolved. This dispute has not been discussed here in ten days. It appears to have been resolved by discussion. (Otherwise it has fizzled out, which is almost as good.) If there are any more content issues, they can also be resolved by discussion, since it appears that the parties are discussing in a civil manner. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:18, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

The Chosun Ilbo

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• The Chosun Ilbo (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Res Iudicata (talk · contribs)
• Jeff6045 (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

There is a dispute over political inclinations of major media companies and a political party of South Korea. To be more specific, the articles being disputed are The Chosun Ilbo, The Hankyoreh and United Future Party. The dispute is mainly on The Chosun Ilbo and The Hankyoreh. The contending editor, Jeff6045 keeps reverting the Chosun Ilbo article to a version where it is described as an ultraconservative and a far-right newspaper. I have changed the political inclination of the Chosun Ilbo as a conservative and a right-wing newspaper, based on peer-reviewed journal articles that deal with the political inclination of the Chosun Ilbo as their main subject. I have done the same for the Hankyoreh, changing its political inclination of center-left to left-wing, as it is described in the peer-reviewed journal articles. Jeff6045 claims that my edits are unconstructive and is original research. I took this to the WP:OR noticeboard, but it is yet to have any input from other editors. And in the talk page of Chosun Ilbo, he has expressed explicit intent not to engage in discussion until his buddies arrive. Any neutral and uninvolved editors willing to help resolve this dispute will be much appreciated. Res Iudicata (talk) 09:41, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

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How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

Evaluation of reliable sources cited for the different definitions of the Chosun Ilbo, the Hankyoreh and the United Future Party. I consider that the problem is most significant on the subject of Chosun Ilbo, so this subject should be given priority in my opinion.

Definition of political inclinations of the Chosun Ilbo, the Hankyoreh and the United Future Party.

Evaluation of whether policies such as WP:OR, WP:BLUE, WP:DR, are being violated by my edits, as claimed by Jeff6045.

Summary of dispute by Jeff6045

The Chosun Ilbo discussion

• Volunteer Note - The other editor, User:Jeff6045, has not responded, although they were notified and have edited Misplaced Pages. They appear to have chosen not to respond, and participation here is voluntary. If there is no input or only minimal input in approximately 24 hours, this case will be closed as not being discussed. If this case is closed due to lack of participation, the editors will be advised of ways to resolve the dispute, which will include a Request for Comments. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:24, 14 April 2020 (UTC)}}

Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Newark

Closed as premature. There does not appear to have been an attempt to discuss this either on the user's talk page or on the article talk pages. Since the issue appears to have to do with multiple dioceses, the best place to try to discuss is probably on the user talk page of the user, User:Carlm0404. The MOS indicates that honorifics and post-nominal letters should be used once, to indicate what a person's title and post-nominals are, and not used thereafter in running text. If there is an issue about their use in a specific article, discuss on the article talk page before requesting any other sort of dispute resolution. If there is an ongoing issue about their use in multiple articles, which appears to be what this filing says, discuss on the talk page of the editor who is re-introducing them. If there are any questions about the guidelines, they can be discussed on a guideline (MOS) talk page. Discuss somewhere, probably the editor's talk page. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:06, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Rescue of the Bulgarian Jews

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Rescue of the Bulgarian Jews (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• GPinkerton (talk · contribs)
• StanProg (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

There is an on-going dispute about the severity and extent of confiscations, deportations, and ghettoization of Jews in Bulgaria. Certain editors appear to seek to minimize the reality of the measures, and deny: 1.) that the Jews were deported from Sofia and other cities to ghettos and camps elsewhere in Bulgaria 2.) that Jews' property was confiscated, 3.) that Jews were confined to ghettos and camps, 4.) that the Bulgarian state and not the German army did this, 5.) that the Jews were subjected to forced labour.

All this and more is evidenced by numerous reliable sources in English, which the vexatious editor claims are inferior to an number of unverifiable blogs and revisionist opinion pieces in Bulgarian, prominent among which is an antisemitic document produced by the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences and condemned within Bulgaria and internationally as malicious distortion.

Some dispute focuses on exegesis of the word "deportation", which the (non-native English-speaker) editor claims (against all reason and evidence) means exclusively "deportation to Treblinka" rather than "deportation from their homes to ghettos and forced labour camps in Bulgarian territory".

How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

Talk:Rescue of the Bulgarian Jews#NPOV

How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

I would like a disinterested editor to review the discussion thus far and look at the sources cited to assure the quibbling editor that the mainstream interpretation of the facts, a presented in the article, is sound.

Summary of dispute by StanProg

There's not a single sentence that is true as a whole from the so-called "Dispute overview". Four editors are participating in this discussion 3 of them including me have concerns about the GPinkerton's neutrality. Вени Марковски tried to help with the NPOV, but GPinkerton reverted his contributions. SSH 6842 was concerned about "inaccurate paraphrasing and presented information" of GPinkerton's contribution. Editors that doubt in his NPOV editing are indirectly or directly called "deniers of the holocaust" or even Nazis. I requested quotes, from the sources that are not publicly available and none was provided. This makes me doubt if he has access to them too. There's no way to confirm most of the claims made by Pinkerton that are being disputed. I have never quoted a blog, as he claims and all the sources that I provided are publicly available and can be easily checked. They are all reliable as most of them are direct state orders, quotes from a National State Archive reference books and articles by reputable scholars. I have never denied the points from 1 to 6, just the extent of some of them, the terms used and the fact that is sources do not confirm this. In short, he uses sources that claim something about a limited group of people and to a certain extent, and applies it to everyone, making enormous statements that contradict themselves. This article is about Rescue of the Bulgarian Jews and almost all his contributions are how they were actually "not rescued", selectively using the sources, rejecting all claims he disagrees with, reverting or marking as fringe all attempts to improve the article. --StanProg (talk) 21:15, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

The claim that StanProg is making about not being furnished with quotations (all from freely available sources) is disingenuous and obviously false with anyone that can read the Talk page, as is StanProg's attitude visible here. GPinkerton (talk) 22:23, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Rescue of the Bulgarian Jews discussion

• Volunteer comment I am willing to review this case, provided that editors are willing to participate in the DRN process. I'm inclined to wait a day or two to see if the other editors that were pinged to this discussion by StanProg are interested in participating. Note that the goal of this process is to identify what changes, if any, should be made to the article. This forum is not intended to resolve issues about editors' behavior such as POV-pushing, Holocaust denial, or improper accusations of Holocaust denial. If further issues remain once the process has concluded, or if editors decline to participate here, I will refer you to the appropriate venues to continue to work towards resolutions. _signed, Rosguill 21:27, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@Rosguill: Thanks for volunteering, it's really whether the content of the article matches the numerous sources that I'm looking for confirmation of - reassurance that wording is accurate and representative as it stands. The first 50 pages of the 2018 United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos, vol. 3: Camps and Ghettos under European Regimes Aligned with Nazi Germany deal with Bulgaria, as does the Online Encyclopedia of Mass Violence, which are the most full and comprehensive recent tertiary sources, and there is dispute over whether the article content matches the information in those sources, as well as the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust's chapter on Bulgaria. An excellent historiographical treatment, vital for the understanding of recent historical revisionism and the role of the issue in Bulgarian nationalism pre- and post- the fall of communism, is also found at: https://doi.org/10.1080/23256249.2017.1346743 - often cited in the "legacy" section. Much of the dispute hinges on whether confiscation of real estate and forcible evacuation of Bulgaria's Jews from its cities to regional camps, labour camps, and ghettos with hand-luggage only constitutes "confiscation" and "deportation". But this is clear from the Talk page there. GPinkerton (talk) 02:10, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

GPinkerton, sorry, this sounds like you're looking for arbitration, which is outside of the scope of this noticeboard, and isn't really ever part of Misplaced Pages's conflict resolution process for article content: the only case in which arbitration is used is for behavioral issues, and even then only once every other possible method has been tried. What I'm willing to do here is to mediate a discussion, which generally results in either one side decisively winning the argument, or in clear alternatives being counterposed which can then be resolved through an RfC.

If you just want uninvolved editors to weigh in on whether they think a specific source is being misrepresented, I would suggest that you withdraw this discussion start an RfC. RfCs run smoothest if you can clearly state a choice between 2 or 3 options, otherwise the conversation will quickly get muddled and uninvolved editors will be unlikely to get involved. An example RfC prompt for this dispute, based on my current understanding of it, would be something along the lines of Which of the following claims most accurately reflects the content of ? A. Jews had their property confiscated... B. Some Jewish property was confiscated..., taking care to ensure that the framing is neutral and that the options reflect the various positions that editors have on this issue. _signed, Rosguill 02:31, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Rosquill, I’m willing to participate.Veni Markovski | Вени Марковски (talk) 09:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm also willing to participate. I will need some time to summarize the disputed content, so it will be more clear which part of the article is being disputed. --StanProg (talk) 10:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

(Bulgarian Jews) First statement by moderator

Ok, given that StanProg and Вени Марковски have accepted the invitation to discuss here, I think that we're ready to begin. Please keep your comments clear and concise, refrain from making any edits to Rescue of the Bulgarian Jews that relate to the issues at hand while the dispute resolution process is ongoing, and review WP:DRN Rule A before responding. Do not engage in back-and-forth discussion here unless I explicitly give you space to do so. Focus on content and avoid commenting on other editor's behavior. Do not accuse editors of POV pushing or other problematic behavior: behavioral issues can be resolved if need be after this discussion has come to a close.

StanProg, Вени, GPinkerton, could each of you please state in the section below, in one paragraph or less, specific changes, if any, that you want to see made to the article, as well as a brief justification? If your position does not significantly differ from a position that someone else has already written in their first statement, please just state that. _signed, Rosguill 18:33, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

(Bulgarian Jews) First statements by participants

• I am happy with most of the article at present besides the obvious discrepancy on the forced labour, which I volunteer to improve with reference to the USHMM Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos, detailing the worsening plight of the Jews in forced labour every year between 1941 and 1944, with some mention also made of the mechanisms Bulgaria deployed to extract unfree labour from the Turk and Roma minorities. At present the source cited in StanProg's contribution in that area is labelled as fringe and is discussed at length on the Talk page; it relates to a broader attempt within Bulgaria's right wing to rewrite history such that: 1.) Bulgarians were somehow not responsible for the death of 20% of Bulgaria's Jews during WWII, and 2.) the slave labour and internal deportation forced on the surviving Jews was all somehow an elaborate ploy to "rescue" the Jews, a subject now apparently part of the national mythology despite repeated denunciations as distortion and denialism. Any serious examination of the sources proves this, and I think most of the rest of the article reflects this, including the phrasing of the lead. In sum, I'd like the article to be purged of all sources not meeting policy on reliability, verifiability, and so on, and that information not meeting the mainstream historiographical consensus that the Holocaust happened in Bulgaria and was organized by the Bulgarian state be removed or suitably signposted as fringe political polemic. The issue is obviously a sensitive one, hence the strident involvement of Bulgarian Wikipedians in the dispute, at least one of whom's edit history proves a long fascination with issues of Bulgarian national pride, not least regarding Macedonia. Again though, the dispute over content appears to originate on their side; I am happy to leave the lead at least as it is. GPinkerton (talk) 19:34, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
• I agree with most of the content of the article that is related to the actual topic - the rescue. Looking even at the first sentence we see in the first source the term "pro-German", which became "pro-Nazi" in the actual article sentence. Regarding the terms, I think we can use the term deportation in the wider context of the concentration camps (i.e out of the territory Bulgaria administrated) and resettlement/eviction/etc. for the resettlement within the boundaries of Bulgaria. Also, the term "Bulgarian Jews" in the sources is used only for the Jews from the pre-war territory of Bulgaria, while for the other the used term is Jews of Thrace and Macedonia. The fate of the Thracian & Macedonian Jews could be mentioned course, but it's not the subject of the article. The subject is the Bulgarian Jews (about 50 000). Such separation 80%/20% Jews can't be done since these are 2 distinct groups, the first groups were Bulgarian subjects/citizens, the 2nd one were not. The last sentence of the leading text is the most problematic, as we have there misinterpretation of the provides sources. It implies that all the Jew property was confiscated, while that's not the case. It also implies that all the Jews were resettled, while the sources confirm that almost all of the Sofia Jews were resettled, and Jews from a few other bigger cities. Also, not all the Jews males (20-40) were recruited in Labour Corps (military specialization) and later sent to labour service under the Ministry of Public Buildings, Roads and Public Works. The first part is recruitment, while for the second part I'm not sure if the term "forced labour" includes being paid, having a winter break of a few months, summer break, etc. The section "Forced Labour" is not neutral, as it shows only one POV is not related to the subject of the article - it does not even mention that the Labour Service is used as an excuse in 1943 the Jews to not be deported to the concentration camps, which is supported by many sources. Also, these 2 paragraphs were directly copy/pasted from History of the Jews in Bulgaria so they are just duplicate content. If some scholars do not agree, we may mention that as well. The section "Rescue" is mostly for the Thrace & Macedonia Jews, and only 2 sentences are for the Bulgarian Jews, which again is not the subject of the article. We can improve the article first my making according to the NPOV and to move the offtopic content to the corresponding articles History of the Jews in Bulgaria & Bulgaria during World War II. --StanProg (talk) 00:47, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

TSLAQ

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• TSLAQ (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Iamchinahand (talk · contribs)
• QRep2020 (talk · contribs)
• Schazjmd (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

The dispute is whether or not an author is an independent, reliable source for the article. The particular line in the article is "Edward Niedermeyer, author of Ludicrous: The Unvarnished Story of Tesla Motors, establishes the doxxing of Lawrence Fossi, a Seeking Alpha writer and Tesla short seller, as "catalyz th loose association of individuals... some of whom were pure financial speculators and others who were motivated by factors other than money."

The subject of the article, TSLAQ, advocates directly for the author on its website (https://tslaq.org/who-is-elon-musk/), on top of other apparent conflicts of interest outlined on the TSLAQ Talk page.

How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

Talk:TSLAQ#Edward_Niedermeyer_Book_Reference_-_Fails_WP:IIS_-_Remove_From_Article

How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

You can help by letting us know whether this is an acceptable source for the article and explaining why or why not.

Summary of dispute by QRep2020

Summary of dispute by Schazjmd

TSLAQ discussion

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