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Revision as of 18:59, 27 December 2006

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Suspected sockpuppet account of banned user BhaiSaab

I suspect that user Itaqallah (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is a sockpuppet account of banned user BhaiSaab (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) He seems to have taken over the edits of this page in the same style as BhaiSaab as you can see by looking at the page history.--CltFn 04:17, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, he could be.Bakaman 04:20, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Israeli Art Students controversy

Are you sure the deletion Israeli Art Students controversy of makes sense? I looked at the google cache here and it's not entirely clear it's the same article discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Israeli art students. The original DEA report can be found here (scroll down). -- Kendrick7 10:46, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

By the way, did you know there's a big yellow box at the top of your talk page? -- Kendrick7 04:25, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Panairjdde

If he had been playing nice then I wouldn't have known about him. However, it turns out he has been up to his old tricks. Aside from the edit-warring, often on the same subjects, he's promised not to use sockpuppets any more, much less several of them. I hadn't heard of this editor before last week, but it is clear that he was given a second chance and abused our trust. Misplaced Pages is not a reformatory or social experiment in rehabilitating difficult editors, and I think we've been more than fair with him. Jayjg (talk) 17:52, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity, how exactly did you discover him and all his "sins"? I've known him for well over a year, and we've never exchanged so much as a harsh word. Misplaced Pages is not a gulag either, it is run on the quality and dedication of its volunteers. Pan has devoted a great deal of his time and effort over the years to helping build this encyclopedia. That those who are too busy trolling, stalking and persecuting him, fail to appreciate this fact, only makes this the project poorer.--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 11:05, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I have a funny feeling that his...er...spirit of contribution may be alive and well at an IP address near you. Dppowell 20:01, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

80.195.226.94

Hi there! Glancing briefly at my watchlist, I encountered 80.195.226.94 (talk • contribs). The anon' is vigoursly presenting a POV and I believe his/her contributions to Misplaced Pages need to be monitored. I'm unable to commit myself to that, so I decided to refer to a user who I believe has dilligently endured others who have exhibited similar editing patterns. Well, at least I think you have....? Apologies for the imposition. ;-) SoLando (Talk) 13:23, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Getting Pco Blocked

Thanks for lying to people about what I did to get me blocked. What is your problem? Pco 20:56, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

And whoever posted this on the history of your talk page, was not me:

1. (cur) (last) 04:42, 17 December 2006 Pco (Talk | contribs) (→Suspected sockpuppet account of banned user BhaiSaab - zionism)

because I never posted anything to your user talk page. Pco 20:56, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Another possible sock of BhaiSaab India101 (talk · contribs) and Bikiwuv (talk · contribs).Bakaman 02:06, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

likewise, possible socks of User:Hkelkar: 70.113.93.111 (talk · contribs), Khilafat_Osmania (talk · contribs), Averreos-Avicenna (talk · contribs). ITAQALLAH 18:01, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Zionism

If you had responded on the Zionism talk page before reverting my edit, then I wouldn't have needed to comment here. In any case, I just responded to your comment over there. Would you please respond, rather than waiting till the next time I make the change and simply reverting it? As I said over there, I would also be extremely appreciative if you could actually explain yourself, rather than simply writing curt and combative comments which make your specific objections entirely unclear. Or am I being unreasonable now? Mackan79 04:23, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

AFD:NeshAir - more problems with User:FrummerThanThou

Hi Jay: Latest chutzpah at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/NeshAir. Thank you, IZAK 13:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Sound familiar?

Who's this guy? --jpgordon 03:23, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

It's this one . Check this for confirmation . Not 100% certain, but "I recognize that tune." Antandrus (talk) 03:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

That's what I was guessing (the "cosmotheism" stuff), but I'd not been involved in that scene. --jpgordon 03:57, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

POV?

On the Jesus article, you removed a piece of information that was stated in the Bible. It's not point of view. --Yancyfry 04:02, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh, embarrassing. I didn't read it right. Sorry. -Yancyfry 04:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, according to the Bible, He is. It aslo says He is the Son of God, the Son of Man, Emmanuel, and a whole bunch of other stuff. -Yancyfry

Ok. I get what you mean. Sorry to bother you. =) -Yancyfry

Category:Palestinian rabbis

What does one make of the new Category:Palestinian rabbis and Category:Talmud rabbis in Palestine, should they be renamed to something like Category:Rabbis of ancient Palestine? so that it does not connect, and become confused with, the way the word "Palestinian" is used today (meaning the very unJewish modern Arab Palestinians, who have nothing to do with these rabbis!) Thanks. IZAK 09:48, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Hi: I have created a solution: See Category:Rabbis of the Land of Israel and Category:Talmud rabbis of the Land of Israel. Thank you. IZAK 14:01, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Not using "Palestine" or "Palestinian" for Talmud and rabbis to avoid confusion

Note: Many articles about the rabbis of the Talmud and Mishnah are derived from the archaic Jewish Encyclopedia, published between 1901-1906, over one hundred years ago (when the Middle East was still under the thumb of the Ottoman Turks) and which used the archaic expressions "Palestine" when referring to the Land of Israel, and to the Jews living in the areas of the historical Land of Israel as "Palestinians." This is a big mistake that requires constant attention and correction, especially when copying and editing articles from the Jewish Encyclopedia or from similarly archaic sources such as Easton's Bible Dictionary (1897). At this time, no-one uses the term/s "Palestinian/s" (in relation to anything associated with Jews or the land they lived in and which they regarded as their homeland) nor by any type of conventional Jewish scholarship, particularly at the present time when the label "Palestinian" is almost entirely identified with the Palestinian Arabs who are mostly Muslims. Finally, kindly take note that the name Palestinian Talmud is also not used and it redirects to the conventional term Jerusalem Talmud used in Jewish scholarship. Thank you. IZAK 13:41, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Not using "Palestine" or "Palestinian" for Talmud and rabbis

Makes sense, I'll try to remember. However, there was a period when everyone referred to the land of Israel as Palestine. Therefore, to say something like "in 1940 Shlomo Pines emigrated to Israel" would appear to be an anachronism. Don't we have to use the term "Palestine" during a certain period for historical accuracy? What is this period? From Roman conquest until 1948? Thanks. Dfass 15:03, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Hi Dfass: Note: The term "Land of Israel" is an old one of Biblical origin, whereas the name "Palestine" is considered offensive by many Jews because it was coined by the Romans after they crushed the Jews of Judea-- and needless to say today it refers exclusively to the Arab Palestinians and never to Jews. Note also that the "Land of Israel" article is not the same as the "Israel" article because the latter refers to the modern post-1948 Jewish state. My main concern was about rabbis from the Mishnaic and Talmudic eras, up until about a hundred years ago being called "Palestinians" on Misplaced Pages as a follow-through from the many articles that have been copied and pasted from the old Jewish Encyclopedia and which collectively create the wrong impression. Such are the hazards of relying on dated information, long-discarded terminology, and unsuitable writing and communication styles. Misplaced Pages as a modern encyclopedia should not be relying on archaic terms such as "Palestinian rabbis" that could potentially cause grave misunderstanding. I think that from the time of the British Mandate of Palestine, also shortened to "the British Mandate" and sometimes "Palestine," that Jews were associated with those terms from 1923 until 1948 when the modern State of Israel was declared. I hope that you have noted that I am most definitely NOT saying that whenever the Jewish Encyclopedia uses the term "Palestine" that the single word "Israel" should be used -- obviously I do not mean that because when Israel is used alone on Misplaced Pages it refers to the MODERN State of Israel only. On the other hand, what I am saying is that when the word "Palestine" is used in archaic sources that predate modern Israel, and when writing about Judaic topics that relate to the Middle Ages, Talmudic, or Biblical times, then the better, more accurate, less controversial term for Misplaced Pages to use is "Land of Israel" which is historically what the Jewish people, and everyone else in academic life, have and do still call it. Hope I have clarified myself, and thanks for caring. IZAK 12:06, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
  • OK, I think I get the drift. I will pay attention to it in the future. (Don't be so down on the Jewish Encyclopedia though! It's an incredible work, written by some tremendous scholars. I think these articles significantly raise the quality of Misplaced Pages, whether their English is somewhat archaic or not. If you compare a JE-borrowed Misplaced Pages article to one written by "the masses," you can't but be struck by the difference in quality and scholarship. The typical Jewish Wikipedian (myself included) is not capable of producing articles of anything like that caliber. Most Wikipedians cannot even be bothered to cite the sources for the couple of factoids they manage to dredge up from their memory of 10th grade.) Thanks again for the clarification. Dfass 15:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Hi Dfass: I am not down on the old Jewish Encyclopedia at all, and I fully agree with you that it is a more than masterly work of scholarship. But is was written in the context of the culture of over a hundred years ago as a product of the nineteenth century! My specific concern at this stage was only about how the meaning and application of the word/s "Palestine" and "Palestinian" are getting "lost in the cut-and-paste process" because one hundred years ago, "Palestinian" was used as an academic adjective as for example, together with "rabbis" ("Palestinian rabbi/s") or the Talmud ("Palestinian Talmud"). Up until 1948 the words "Palestine" and "Palestinians" still had application/s to Jews because of the existaence of the British Mandate of Palestine until 1948 in the territories of historically Jewish Land of Israel. Since then, the name "Palestine" and "Palestinians" has shed any connection to Jews and the modern Jewish State of Israel which was set up in contradistinction to an Arab Palestine. Particularly since the rise of the PLO (the Palestine Liberation Organization), following the 1967 Six-Day War, the term and notion of "Palestine" and "Palestinians" has become thoroughly and exclusively connected with the Arab Palestinians to the point that no-one (not in politics, academics, the media, religion, etc) associates the name "Palestine" and "Palestinians" with the Jews or Judaism, so that it can safely be said that the notion of a "Palestinian Jew" is an archaic anachronistic discarded notion. So when cutting and pasting articles from the one hundred year old Jewish Encyclopedia, one should not fall into a "time warp trap" by blindly pasting articles from it without some sensible updates, and not to inadvertantly recreate and foster terminology for Jews and Jewish Israelis that neither they nor the world accepts or recognizes. One needs to be conscious that the term "Land of Israel" is a well-established name that has survived for a long time and is still the preferred term of choice when speaking in modern terms, so that Jews not be confused with Arabs and vice versa. By speaking of the Category:Rabbis of the Land of Israel, meaning rabbis (or any Jews) associated with a historic geographic area, one also avoids problems such as calling pre-1948 rabbis or people "Israelites" -- used only for people in the Biblical era or "Israelis" -- which refers to citizens of the modern State of Israel. Thanks for your input. IZAK 07:34, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Judaism's view of Jesus

Hi Jay: I received the following message, perhaps you can assist. Thanks. IZAK 10:25, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Izak,

I've been involved in a discussion with a christian editor at Judaism's view of Jesus who is holding to the fairly common christian interpretation that Judaism and christianity are pretty much the same thing and therefore the article should reflect christian views as well. I'm enjoying the conversation, since the editor (Just nigel) is more restrained than some, but I'll be away for a few days between now and the weekend. If you're interested, the discussion is at the bottom of the talk page. Dbratton 10:21, 19 December 2006 (UTC) (crossposted to Jon513)

Thank you

Dear Jayjg, thank you for giving me your support at my rfa.--Berig 11:28, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

request for arbitration

I've filed a request for arbitration regarding your use of checkuser privilege.

Justforasecond 22:11, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Travbar

Jay, if you still have a view on the antisemitism template travbar, would you mind posting a comment? I feel that these things are vandalism magnets. Cheers, SlimVirgin 22:42, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

172.163.57.130

Well, User:172.163.57.130, who is also obviously User:172.137.17.81, User:172.128.26.209, User:172.129.88.160, and so on, appears to be trying to re-create the deleted category "Jewish-American businesspeople" as a list. Factually speaking, there are some obvious mistakes in their edits (there's Milton S. Hershey, who is obviously not Jewish, which his article even states , or William Cohen, who is not particularly Jewish according to most sources). They've done stuff like . So yeah, I'd guess it to be a case of an A.W.A. - an Anon With an Agenda. Mad Jack 05:32, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

User:Frummer creates User:Jesus

Hi Jay: Unfortunately, User:FrummerThanThou has crossed the lines of acceptable editing. He has now created a provocative new "user" User:Jesus. See User talk:Jesus#Problem with your user name. I do believe that admin intervention is overdue. Thanks. IZAK 08:49, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Religion

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Religion FYI: Hi Tomer! A Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Religion has asserted itself in the Korban article. The project indicates that it is an umbrella project for all of religion and that the current religion projects are subprojects of it, yet its member directory lists only six members. Where is the project coming from? Is it a broadbased project, a very small group with a very big reach, or what? If you know some background or some of its people, would be much appreciated. Best, --Shirahadasha 03:56, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

• Hi Shira: I noticed this comment. Their assertion is outrageous and false and should be rejected and disputed to the full. There is no "supreme council of religion" on Misplaced Pages and there never will be. Each religion has its experts and contributors on Misplaced Pages and none of them will ever tolerate interference from outside busy-bodies. Judging by their user pages, the members of this "religion" project are obviously coming from a Christian POV and seems they now wish to "double dip," pretty funny actually. See my notice on that page, below. Thanks, and may the Lights of Chanukah dispel all ignorance and darkness. IZAK 10:18, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

NOTICE and OBJECTIONS to WikiProject Religion vs. Judaism

Hi: Please see Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Religion#Judaism. Thanks, IZAK 10:18, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

NOTICE and OBJECTIONS:

1. No-one has the right to take upon themselves to be the controlling "project" for every religion on Earth!
2. Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Judaism has been, and shall remain an independent project and will not accept interference in its work based on the assertion that editors not familiar with Judaism's traditions have a self-appointed "right" to interfere with Judaism-related articles by mere dint of being members of a "religion" project.
3. So far, as of 12/21/06 the mere six members of this project, are mostly Christian, (as self-described on their user pages) and raises the question, why don't they do their work in Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Christianity (81 members as of 12/21/06)? How can a project with six members "pass judgment" on other projects with one hundred and twenty four members?
4. What will members of other projects, such as Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Islam (64 members as of 12/21/06) think and react when "religion project" editors will advise what's best for Islam-related articles or not?
5. Note: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Judaism adheres to WP:NPOV and is one of the oldest Misplaced Pages projects with over one hundred and twenty members (as of 12/21/06), a number of whom are respected sysops as well, highly knowledgeable about many matters relating to Category:Jews and Judaism.
6. It would not be advisable for anyone to interfere with Judaism-related articles or Hebrew Bible-related topics that ignores the broad based consensus and general agreement that exists between Jewishly-oriented editors of Judaic articles, many of which touch upon Jews because being Jewish includes being both a part of Judaism as well as being part of an ethnicity, and a project on "religion" alone cannot and does not have the scope to touch upon issues that effects not just Jews and Judaism, but also Israel and Jewish history, see Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Jewish history (with 33 members as of 12/21/06) and a broad range of related issues and projects, see Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Jewish culture (19 members as of 12/21/06) and Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Israel (23 members as of 12/21/06).
7. Finally, Misplaced Pages is not the forum to create a de facto neo-"ecumenical project" which is only bound to cause confusion and resentment and will result in confusion and chaos and inevitabley violate Misplaced Pages:No original research; Misplaced Pages is not a publisher of original thought; and Misplaced Pages:Avoid neologisms.

Thank you for taking this matter seriously. IZAK 09:21, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Response to NOTICE and OBJECTIONS to WikiProject Religion vs. Judaism

Hi Jay: It is very important that you see the points and the response from User:Badbilltucker about his aims at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Judaism#NOTICE and OBJECTIONS to WikiProject Religion vs. Judaism ASAP. Have a Happy Chanukah! IZAK 15:39, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Request for Comment

Hi Jayjg,

An RfC case involving you has been opened here . --Aminz 14:01, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Jay

What do you make of an edit like this? This is the kind of thing I would have reverted in the past and asked the user to provide a better source and then move it down in the article under early life/family background whatever. I would really like to continue being an editor on this project and do not want to run into any trouble with any of my edits. Thanks.--Tom 21:39, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Request for mediation: Religious significance of Jerusalem

User:Alithien suggested you may do a better job mediating.

Please help mediate on this page. We require your assistance. My argument is that user is adding much one-sided information and too much text to evoke emotions. Other material has almost nothing to do with the actual subject at hand. I am trying to maintain a fair and factual article. Your help is greatly appreciated. I would just like you to see my comments and arguments to his reasons . Also, please take a look at my version in comparison with his (as protected by Husond) . He has added redundant info. He gave the rest of the quotation, unneeded but okay. The problem is that the second one is accompanied by the original text in Arabic. The Arabic text we have does not continue with the rest of the sentence, that is why his longer translation is not needed, especially not twice. He has also added POV. He uses his own sources while oblivious to others. That is why I try to leave it balanced, with all views represented.

As for the "Controversial claim" section, I am going to propose it be combined with the similar article section Al-Aqsa Mosque#Location of the “farthest mosque” and possibly have its own page. If you have any suggestions or objections for me, I am glad to hear. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shamir1 (talk • contribs)

Question

Hi Jayjg. Nearly Headless Nick posted some stats about the creation of AN and AN/I, and I noticed that they say you started AN/I a while before AN. Just out of curiosity, how did that happen? I certainly would've expected subpages to come after their parent page. Or is it just a mistake in the stats? Picaroon 00:50, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Block of Gnetwerker

Hello. Just reviewing an unblock request by User:Gnetwerker, I was wondering which page was the attack page referred to in your block summary?

I assume it has been deleted, which makes it hard for me to track down. HighInBC 18:50, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Kidman edit

That's the kind of stuff I'd immediately revert; that wasn't the kind of stuff you were removing, though. Jayjg 01:21, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes it was. You should really go back and take a better look. You were 110% wrong about myself and my comments about the Shipman article and it would big of you to admitt so. This is what I objected to and and tried to say so here. You are involved with so many POV warriors that I got swept up into that net, imho. Anyways,--Tom 02:13, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

If I've misjudged you then I apologize. Jayjg 04:48, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Jay, I really appreciate that. Like I said, I see you battling people who want to insert their POV into many articles you edit. If somebody wasn't doing it, these articles would be trashed, imho. Anyways, I want to be a help to this project and not a detractor so any advice or comment is always welcome. Have a great New Years and 2007! --Tom 14:06, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Request for administrative help

Jayjg, I've encountered you on a number of pages and been impressed with your mediative skills and willingness to help. Would you please take a look at the recent disputes on Pioneer Courthouse Square and its talk page, which involve me (and one or two others) versus an IP address in a NPOV debate? If you can't, could you please direct me to somewhere I can request some sort of formal or informal mediation of this dispute? The relevant help pages seem to be tangles of indecipherable and sometimes contradictory information. Thank you. --Makaristos 06:50, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your intervention. Would you please sprotect the page? Thank you. --Makaristos 07:51, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Jay, I'm at my wits' end. I have no idea how to get through to this guy, and I don't know what to do. The help pages about content and NPOV disputes are incomprehensible. Please, please tell me where I can get help or what I can do. Thank you. --Makaristos

Seraphimblade's RfA

Thank you for your suggestions in my recent RfA, which failed. Any further advice you could offer would be much appreciated! Seraphimblade 15:14, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Peer review

Ebionites article passed GA. We are having a 2nd round of peer review to get it ready for FA nomination. Your perspective on changes needed to make it FA quality would be appreciated. Ovadyah 16:13, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

BOT - Regarding your recent protection of David Irving:

You recently protected this page but did not give a protection summary. If this is an actual (not deleted) article, talk, or project page, make sure that it is listed on WP:PP. VoABot will automatically list such protected pages only if there is a summary. Do not remove this notice until a day or so, otherwise it may get reposted. Thanks. VoABot 19:00, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Also: WP:AN/I#Misuse of admin powers by Jayjg. Khoikhoi 21:41, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Since you seem to protect a lot of pages from socks, note that you can have pages watched for edits particularly by shared IPs, hosting (ports open) IPs, and "suspicious" new users here. Pages tagged with sprotect-banned-user are already watched. Voice-of-All 22:54, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Can you deal with this?

This sounds rather serious. Would you be able to take a look at it and decide what needs doing? I've posted to the talk pages of some of the arbitrators and one of the clerks as well, but not any further. Thanks. Carcharoth 23:23, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Technajunky

Thanks for the heads-up. BTW, I have a possible solution to Kgeza67. Check your email... Khoikhoi 20:08, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Edit warring at Chabad-Lubavitch and...

Hi Jayjg, would you be able to take a look at Chabad-Lubavitch, Menachem Mendel Shneerson and Yechi, Theres a relativly new editor TrachtGut (talk · contribs) who's been making some major edits and deletions to these articles. He has been asked a number of times by numerous editor to use the talk pages before changing the articles. But he keeps on reverting back to his own version. This is causing an edit war. would you be able to take a look? Things look a bit calm for the moment, but perhaps you can keep your eyes on the watch and weigh in when needed? thanks allot for your help. Shlomke 20:17, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Fighting Sockpuppetry

Thanks for taking the time to help bust User:Kgeza67 as sockpuppet. You deserve a barnstar or something for your tireless efforts.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 22:34, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Technajunky

Hi, Jayjg. I've been having trouble with User:68.5.96.201 too, and I see that you've left a block notice on this editor's page. But I look at the block log and I don't see anything. I'm confused. What's up? — coelacan talk — 01:26, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I didn't know that blocking an account applied automatically to the IP as well. Thanks for the info. — coelacan talk — 01:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Table Fellowship

I'm searching for a single word in Hebrew that describes the table-fellowship Ebionites practiced that kept them separated from Gentiles. The closest I have come so far is Kashrut#Maintenance_of_a_separate_culture, but Kashrut puts more emphasis on the food than the fellowship. The Greek word koinonia comes close, but doesn't specifically refer to fellowship at table. Any thoughts? Ovadyah 00:41, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Blind reverts

I misread the diff. My mistake. Please accept my sincere apologies. Abu ali 09:44, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Your edit

Please do not delete soursed text. Added text cites on neutral sources and was discussed on talk page. --Yakudza 18:59, 27 December 2006 (UTC)