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			== Reorganize first sentence wording? ==

			The first sentence currently states that "InfoWars is a far-right American conspiracy theory and fake news website". However, I would propose that it is changed to "InfoWars is a far-right news, fake news, and conspiracy theory website". The current wording implies that the website includes only conspiracy theories and fake news, while it clearly includes stories that do not fall into either of those categories. For example, the top stories on the website right now are "JOE BIDEN TRIES TO ‘CLARIFY’ REMARKS ABOUT AFRICAN AMERICANS; NO APOLOGY", "THE ECONOMIC DEPRESSION OF 2020 IS BECOMING AN ENDLESS NIGHTMARE FOR MILLIONS OF AMERICANS", and "‘NATIONAL SECURITY THREAT’? TRUMP SIGNS EXECUTIVE ORDERS ON TIKTOK & WECHAT, BANS TRANSACTIONS WITH CHINESE OWNERS IN 45 DAYS", which are clearly not fake news or conspiracy theories.

	== Let's review, shall we? ==		== Let's review, shall we? ==

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This article was nominated for deletion on August 19, 2006. The result of the discussion was redirect to Alex Jones (radio).

This article has been mentioned by a media organization:

Samantha Cole (October 2, 2018). "Misplaced Pages Bans Right Wing Site Breitbart as a Source for Facts (Including InfoWars)". Motherboard. Retrieved October 5, 2018. Alex Jones' InfoWars and the far-right media outlet Breitbart can't be used as a source of fact in Misplaced Pages articles anymore, "due to its unreliability."
Adam Smith (October 3, 2018). "Misplaced Pages Bans Breitbart as Source of Fact (Including InfoWars)". PC Magazine. Retrieved October 5, 2018. The right-wing site will still be a source for opinion-related content, but all other citations will be removed. Misplaced Pages did the same with British newspaper The Daily Mail.
Marcus Gilmer (October 3, 2018). "Misplaced Pages demotes Breitbart to fake news (Including InfoWars)". Mashable. Retrieved October 5, 2018. Misplaced Pages, the internet's crowd-sourced encyclopedia, has declared "fake news" on far-right site Breitbart, deeming the outlet an unreliable source for facts.

Reorganize first sentence wording?

The first sentence currently states that "InfoWars is a far-right American conspiracy theory and fake news website". However, I would propose that it is changed to "InfoWars is a far-right news, fake news, and conspiracy theory website". The current wording implies that the website includes only conspiracy theories and fake news, while it clearly includes stories that do not fall into either of those categories. For example, the top stories on the website right now are "JOE BIDEN TRIES TO ‘CLARIFY’ REMARKS ABOUT AFRICAN AMERICANS; NO APOLOGY", "THE ECONOMIC DEPRESSION OF 2020 IS BECOMING AN ENDLESS NIGHTMARE FOR MILLIONS OF AMERICANS", and "‘NATIONAL SECURITY THREAT’? TRUMP SIGNS EXECUTIVE ORDERS ON TIKTOK & WECHAT, BANS TRANSACTIONS WITH CHINESE OWNERS IN 45 DAYS", which are clearly not fake news or conspiracy theories.

Let's review, shall we?

Let's review for our newly-arrived Infowars/Newswars/Prison Planet minions, shall we? Alex Jones claims that the US government kidnaps children and makes them slaves at our martian colony, that kids are only pretending to get shot at school and their parents are only pretending to grieve, that Michelle Obama is really a man, that Carrie Fisher of Star Wars fame was killed to boost DVD sales, that the coming New World Order is a demonic high-tech tyranny formed by satanist elites who are using selective breeding to create a supreme race, that tap water is turning frogs gay, that Temple of Baal arches will be erected in multiple cities around the world Real Soon Now, that the Democratic party runs a pedophile ring through pizza shops, that the US government commits acts of terrorism against its own citizens, that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are literally demons from hell, that the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami were a government plot, that Obama wanted to detonate a nuclear bomb in Charleston, South Carolina, that FEMA runs concentration camps... Sounds legit to me! --Guy Macon (talk) 18:03, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Discussion

This is why I give maybe two warnings (if that) before blocking anyone who tries to defend InfoWars as an RS on grounds of WP:NOTHERE and WP:CIR. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:39, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Everyone knows the slave colony is on planet Invisibilia that the New World Order has blocked from view with light-bending technology. The rest is probably true. O3000 (talk) 19:44, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

I thought it was on Nibiru? Guy (Help!) 20:25, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

You would say that, wouldn't you? (mocking) Nibaru! What an obvious false flag to hide THE TRUTH! --Guy Macon (talk) 00:59, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

InfoWars defenders are why I no longer have a button to email me on my user page. Words cannot describe how bizarre their messages are, but they seemed to figure out that emailing editors instead of posting directly on user talk pages lets them get away with harassment. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 12:20, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

I get that there are stories infowars may have fabricated but there are multiple videos of CNN telling “witnesses” exactly what to say, making up stories etc. Just confused on why that’s not described as “fake news” as well. Flyingchiimp12 (talk) 13:03, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

And what great source gave you that idea? O3000 (talk) 13:14, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

here's just one of the many great examples. Google apparently blocks you from (easily) finding this video on their search engine so I had to use duckduckgo but if you do some research you can find all the moments of proven fake news you'd like. I'd also be happy to keep supplying links if need be.Flyingchiimp12 (talk) 00:55, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Flyingchiimp12, that stupid video proves nothing at all, and it looks fake as hell. If you want to play here, you will have to acquaint yourself with guidelines like WP:RS, but more than that, you probably need to develop some common sense and educate yourself on what constitutes "evidence", and what kinds of things one probably shouldn't believe. I fear for you. Drmies (talk) 01:00, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

lmaoo ok it’s obvious no amount of evidence will change your bias against Jones. Go ahead and google “project veritas CNN” and there’s even a page for CNN controversies on Misplaced Pages. I’m not even that big of an Alex Jones guy but the fact that he’s listed explicitly as “fake news” and not something like, “many claim he is fake news” just shows this is trying to push a narrative instead of being impartial like it should be. As much as you guys will deny it, Jones has been right about things the rest of the media won’t talk about, e.g. Epstein being a pedophile. I fear you as well. Flyingchiimp12 (talk) 21:13, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Flyingchiimp12 has been blocked. O3000 (talk) 22:11, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Agreed The article has several errors as well as unfounded criticisms. If InfoWars is to be labeled "fake news" it serves that all media entries on Misplaced Pages ie CNN FOX NEWS NY Times et Al should be labeled "Fake News" as well. "Alternative" "Libertarian" or "Online" would be more accurate describers of the type of "News" site InfoWars is. The authors sources, though numerous are suspect for their factuality. This entry requires several edits.

Justkmill (talk) 05:26, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Do you have any reliable sources for these claims? Libertarianism is a philosophy, not a euphemism. — Newslinger talk 05:30, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Why no List of Debunked Fake News Articles?

If we want to clearly demonstrate InfoWars is fake news and consists of entirely fabricated material there should be a list of links to these fabricated articles (or at least a significant number of them) and also to reliable sources demonstrating their specific claims to be fake: then there would be no more room for controversy. All their articles are available online or archived so failing to do this seems like a missed opportunity to prove the truth, and leads to accusations of name-calling and white-washing.

All there appear to be at the moment are links to other sources claiming that it's fake news, which is a circular argument proving nothing. Why miss the opportunity to prove the case beyond doubt when it should be so easily done? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.193.136.194 (talk) 03:31, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

There's a summary in InfoWars § Promotion of conspiracy theories and fake news. There are too many articles to list individually, and Misplaced Pages is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Additionally, InfoWars is on the spam blacklist, so we would not link to InfoWars directly, but rather to reliable sources that cover InfoWars. — Newslinger talk 05:56, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Because we do not say entirely fabricated.Slatersteven (talk) 09:25, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Were someone to sort through the articles on InfoWars and separate them into those that are fake news and those that are not, you'd have an easier time listing the ones that are not. It isn't that they're simply mistaken on occasion, it's that they are built upon an ideology that is incompatible with a connection to reality. Ian.thomson (talk) 09:46, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

So all we have to show that InfoWars is a fake news site from the relevant paragraph (distinct from the sections on conspiracy theories) is one link to CBS (a media-biz competitor) saying its owner "has alleged the Sandy Hook school shooting was a hoax" (which as stated is a conspiracy theory, not fake news, and no link is given to the article this claim comes from), a pay-walled Telegraph article that appears to be about Jones' personal life, and an Independent article from three years ago saying that they'd been investigated by the FBI for spreading Russian fake news? That's not enough to convince anyone. In fact, that the FBI investigation has not resulted in charges suggests they were cleared of suspicion (should this be added, or the sentence removed - what was the outcome of the investigation?) Surely there must be better information out there from multiple reliable sources detailing the false claims of fact that InfoWars has made over the years? At least one concrete, egregious example...

After googling "Infowars fake news examples" there's surprisingly little to go on. The best example I could find was this (from Mashable, which may not be reliable) with some variably absurd headlines but it doesn't link to the articles so there's not much way to evaluate exactly what false claims are being made:

https://mashable.com/article/facebook-infowars/

There's also this about a specific false claim (from the InfoWars store, not the news website) being made about "colloidal silver" being able to " the whole SARS-corona family at point-blank range" which is "misleading" according to the FDA (HuffPo reliable?):

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alex-jones-toothpaste-coronavirus_n_5e694142c5b6bd8156f0ce82?guccounter=1

The actual FDA warning letter is here, which details the specific claims very clearly:

https://www.fda.gov/inspections-compliance-enforcement-and-criminal-investigations/warning-letters/free-speech-systems-llc-dba-infowarscom-605802-04092020

But surely we can do better with actual examples of clearly demonstrable fake news articles, as opposed to unfounded pharmaceutical claims from their store, or conspiracy theories? Even just added to this talk page for evaluation purposes it would be useful to readers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.193.136.194 (talk) 04:06, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Conspiracy theories and fake news are not mutually exclusive. The most disreputable conspiracy theories, including the ones InfoWars has published, are frequently labeled as fake news. In addition to the Promotion of conspiracy theories and fake news section, the article also has the Claims of false flag school shootings and Chobani retraction sections. Misplaced Pages does not accept original research, but if you locate more reliable source coverage of InfoWars that would be suitable for this article, feel free to introduce it so that the article could be expanded. As I mentioned before, InfoWars (RSP entry) is on the spam blacklist due to persistent abuse, and will not be directly cited for the purpose of providing examples. It is not our job to "demonstrate" anything in Misplaced Pages articles; this article is a reflection of reliable sources, not a proof or dissertation. — Newslinger talk 05:48, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages does not, will not and should not attempt to "prove" anything other than that independent reliable sources say something. Misplaced Pages does not show that the Earth is spherical, it shows that independent reliable sources say it is. Misplaced Pages does not show that HIV causes AIDS, NASA landed astronauts on the Moon, the world is not run by reptilian aliens or anything else. Misplaced Pages merely shows what independent reliable sources say about those things.

Independent reliable sources say Infowars is a fake news site. So, Misplaced Pages verifiably and neutrally reports that Infowars is a fake news site. - SummerPhD 15:30, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Then the sources supporting that paragraph need to be strengthened, because as they are currently an objective observer would find them questionable. Given that CBS is one of the U.S. mass-media companies InfoWars directly attacks (rightly or wrongly) and is losing share in a shrinking market to alternative media like InfoWars (again, justifiably or otherwise) as they struggle for survival, its independence, reliability and absence of bias are seriously in question on this topic. Given that they do not themselves provide evidence to support their claim, a reasonable person would suggest that their claim is merely an opinion and does not pass the test of objectivity.

If we allow one entity to say what it likes about a competitor (especially a less powerful competitor) and have it enthusiastically stated as fact on Misplaced Pages, all without any evidence having been demonstrated, then the concepts of independence and reliability of sources need to be re-examined and overhauled, particularly as the idea of ethics in journalism becomes increasingly tested in the mainstream as well as the fringe.

Of course, if a competitor can demonstrate a claim to be factual rather than opinion, any question of bias is completely irrelevant. Surely such examples can be found? The (bizarre) Chobani incident is good, but a retraction was issued, something legitimate news sources do all the time: I tried to find out the outcome of the Sandy Hook lawsuit (legally proven defamation being a good, conclusive example of fake news) but it appears no conclusion has been reached and reports of damages are actually fines for procedural annoyances (link below).

https://www.statesman.com/news/20200326/alex-jones-must-pay-legal-fees-for-rsquofrivolousrsquo-sandy-hook-appeal

Can anyone help out with more well-founded sources, demonstrating (with direct quotes of reported speech, screenshots, etc., not merely general accusations) un-retracted promotion of demonstrated-false claims of fact? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.193.136.194 (talk) 02:21, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

The argument that CBS should be excluded from the article because InfoWars has criticized it is entirely unconvincing. A subject does not get to pick and choose the sources cited in the Misplaced Pages article about the subject by criticizing the sources it doesn't like. InfoWars is not considered a reliable source, and its opinions carry no weight on Misplaced Pages. — Newslinger talk 02:36, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Read the issue again; with all due respect you appear to misunderstand the concern. The problem is provision of evidence, or absence thereof, in an opinion piece about a market-share competitor. If a talking head on CNN calls Fox News "a den of vipers" in passing do you immediately rush out and change the Fox News article lede to read "Fox news is a cable news channel and den of vipers"? One assumes not. Again for clarity: if Misplaced Pages policy allows a commercial competitor to state opinions without evidence and have them repeated on Misplaced Pages as facts, the system is naive to the extent of being broken - regardless of whether you or I think the opinion is correct. Anyway, the point in question is that it's not convincing to the reader! A single-sentence comment from a BuzzFeed-style listicle? Absurd. It's very odd to receive pushback on strengthening the references for undersourced key claims in this article, time would be better spent finding stronger references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.193.136.194 (talk) 03:30, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

I am not aware of any reliable sources that claim that Fox News is "a den of vipers" in their non-opinion reporting. This article currently cites 7 reliable sources that describe InfoWars as a website that publishes "fake news", and the label meets the verifiability policy. If you have found additional reliable sources that can be used to expand this article, feel free to share them. Otherwise, your comments do not warrant any action. The goal of Misplaced Pages is not to "convince" the reader about anything, but to present information that has already been published in reliable sources. — Newslinger talk 03:42, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't know where you got the ideas that Misplaced Pages is trying to convince anyone of anything. Misplaced Pages exists to summarize what independent reliable sources say about a subject. Such sources say InfoWars publishes fake news.

I also can't figure out where you got the idea that we are citing a "BuzzFeed-style listicle" for this. The sources cited include Deutsche Welle, The Conversation, Nature, U.S. News & World Report, The Atlantic, Fortune and Vox. If you would like to argue those are not reliable sources, I will say flatly that you either do not understand what our criteria for reliable sources are or too informed by other concerns to see that they plainly meet our criteria. (Note several of them are listed at WP:RS/P. The note at the bottom of that page for Nature makes me giggle a bit at the prospect of someone arguing it is not reliable.) if you would like to challenge the sources, please take the issue to the reliable sources noticeboard. Generally, it's easier to discuss one source at a time. While you are free to start with any source you would like, I would ask that you start with Nature. :)

Multiple independent reliable sources regularly and repeatedly identify InfoWars as a fake news source. As a result Misplaced Pages verifiably and neutrally reports that InfoWars is a fake news source. - SummerPhD 05:14, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

You're both not addressing the issue or the source in question as laid out clearly and specifically, but instead appear for some reason to prefer to argue for the sake of argument rather then helping to improve the specific two-sentence paragraph under discussion. Never mind, life is too short. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.193.136.194 (talk) 03:10, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages reports what independent reliable sources say about a subject. You want to say something else. You can't do that here. If you write a blog you can say whatever you want. - SummerPhD 06:22, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

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