Talk:George Floyd: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively ← Previous edit Next edit →Content deleted Content addedVisual WikitextInline

Revision as of 22:20, 15 August 2020 editLima Bean Farmer (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users8,801 edits →Semi-protected edit request on 9 August 2020 Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit← Previous edit		Revision as of 22:48, 15 August 2020 edit undoStayfree76 (talk \| contribs)435 edits →Semi-protected edit request on 9 August 2020 Next edit →
Line 59:		Line 59:

	], that’s absolutely not true, while in the court of law, you are innocent until proven guilty, that does not mean that you didn’t commit a crime. Nikolas Cruz, the shooter at ] still has not faced trial over two years later. We don’t consider that “not a murder”. This is a murder since all four officers were charged with murder. ] (]) 22:20, 15 August 2020 (UTC)		], that’s absolutely not true, while in the court of law, you are innocent until proven guilty, that does not mean that you didn’t commit a crime. Nikolas Cruz, the shooter at ] still has not faced trial over two years later. We don’t consider that “not a murder”. This is a murder since all four officers were charged with murder. ] (]) 22:20, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

			:: {{u\|Lima Bean Farmer}}, I'm going to stop humoring you after this statement. 1. the person you mentioned is not a murderer at this time as he has not been convicted of murder. 2. he confessed to the crimes, so there is self incrimination involved with the case.
			:: you need to '''fix yourself immediately''' because you are engaging in ] which is an actionable offense in us civil court. see: https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-covington-nick-sandmann-settlement for what can happen to people or orgs that disregard this fact. ] (]) 22:47, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

	== "Nearly" eight minutes ==		== "Nearly" eight minutes ==

Revision as of 22:48, 15 August 2020

faq page Frequently asked questions Q1: Does it have to say "white" police officer? A1: Yes, because almost all reliable sources emphasize the significance of this fact. Q2: I read some information on the web that isn't in this article! A2: When proposing anything to be added to the article you need to cite a reliable source; secondary sources are generally preferred over primary. Q3: This article is biased (for/against), or (whitewashes/blames), (Floyd/police)! A3: See our neutral point of view policy. Complaints of bias must be accompanied by specific concerns or suggestions for change. Vague, general statements don't help. Q4: Why is this article calling it a murder instead of a death/killing? A4: As a person was formally convicted for murder in a court of law, the article uses the term "murder", in line with the community guidance at WP:MURDERS. Q5: Wasn't Floyd killed near a store called Cub Foods, not Cup Foods? A5: The store is Cup Foods, and is not affiliated with the Cub Foods store chain. Q6: Why does the article use such a graphic photo? Isn't it in poor taste? A6: The lead image was determined by the community in a formal Request for Comment process. The RfC reached an "overwhelming consensus" that "...the image, despite it being traumatizing, should be kept per WP:NOTCENSORED, as it is an appropriate representation of the topic." Q7: Why was my request or comment removed? A7: Because of the frequency of meritless and disruptive requests, any further requests to describe Floyd's murder using other terms (e.g. "death", "overdose") or to change the name of the article accordingly will be removed without consideration, unless the request complies with all relevant Misplaced Pages guidelines and essays, including WP:Requested moves, WP:Common name, WP:Article titles, WP:Naming conventions (violence and deaths), and WP:Reliable sources. Anyone removing such requests should include a link to this FAQ in their edit summary. Q8: Why do we not call the protests riots? A8: Because most reliable sources call them protests, not riots. Q9: Did he not die of a drug overdose? A9: No, whilst fentanyl was a contributory factor, his death certificate lists his cause of death as "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression".

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the George Floyd article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 5 days

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

African diaspora Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject African diaspora, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of African diaspora on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.African diasporaWikipedia:WikiProject African diasporaTemplate:WikiProject African diasporaAfrican diaspora
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Biography: Musicians

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians.
	This article needs a discography section, as outlined by the guidelines of WikiProject Musicians.
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Black Lives Matter Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Black Lives Matter, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Black Lives Matter on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Black Lives MatterWikipedia:WikiProject Black Lives MatterTemplate:WikiProject Black Lives MatterBlack Lives Matter
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Discrimination Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Discrimination, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Discrimination on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DiscriminationWikipedia:WikiProject DiscriminationTemplate:WikiProject DiscriminationDiscrimination
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Hip-hop Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hip-hop, a collaborative effort to build a useful resource for and improve the coverage of hip-hop on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.Hip-hopWikipedia:WikiProject Hip-hopTemplate:WikiProject Hip-hopHip-hop
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Minnesota Low‑importance

	Minnesota portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Minnesota, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Minnesota on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MinnesotaWikipedia:WikiProject MinnesotaTemplate:WikiProject MinnesotaMinnesota
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

United States: Music / North Carolina / Texas / History Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Music portal This article is supported by WikiProject American music.
	North Carolina portal This article is supported by WikiProject North Carolina.
	Texas portal This article is supported by WikiProject Texas.
	This article is supported by WikiProject U.S. history.

This article has been mentioned by a media organization:

Harrison, Stephen (June 9, 2020). "How Misplaced Pages Became a Battleground for Racial Justice". Slate.

This article was nominated for deletion on 31 May 2020. The result of the discussion was redirect to Death of George Floyd.

Semi-protected edit request on 9 August 2020

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change "white police officer" to "police officer." The fact that he is white is not important and it is things like this that fuel hate against, and therefore(usually)the death of, police. ZJoe2234 (talk) 09:53, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Sorry RS think it is relevant, so as such so do we.Slatersteven (talk) 09:54, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

The problem ZJoe is that the reliable sources do indicate that more often than not the skin colour of an individual is significant, and that you are right it does lead to death. However it is very rarely the police that are killed, and the skin colour focused upon is that of their black victims. So when RS focus upon the colour of the skin of the police officer, this is not to engender hatred - it is to demonstrate an imbalance. Koncorde (talk) 10:41, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Who is Slatersteven to decide this unilaterally? "So as such so do we?" Who is "we," Slatersteven? This article is not about social ills and as such the race of the police officers involved is irrelevant to a neutral, unbiased story about a particular man, in this case George Floyd. So, Koncorde, it doesn't matter if there's no intent to engender hatred; this story is not about whatever "imbalance" you refer to. There appears to be a concerted effort among several editors here to turn this article into a political narrative which the Misplaced Pages community should not tolerate. Mikerrr (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:57, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

The problem Mike is that the race of both the victim and the alleged perpetrators are both relevant and the reliable sources have already made it political by reporting on the political nature of the response to his death. Misplaced Pages doesn't make the narrative - the narrative exists in reliable sources and we reflect it where there is significant coverage. And by imbalance, we are talking about where a black man can be killed for a fake $20, and people want to make it into about whether or not he had any priors, resisted arrest or had drugs in his system, or to protect the "blue line" in order to absolve a police officer whose attitude may be informed by his own skin colour and created a prejudiced approach that functionally resulted in a death, and calls into question the nature of police work when interacting with minorities. All of which is covered by numerous reliable sources. You may have seen some of the responses on the news. Koncorde (talk) 00:06, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

The incident has been reported as a race issue and many people believe that race was a motive to the murder of George Floyd. Stating that the officers are white simply supports a common belief that his murder was racially motivated. It is simply a fact, the article does not state what the officers were thinking, but only their skin color. Lima Bean Farmer (talk) 20:18, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

"Stating that the officers are white" Four officers were involved in Floyd's death. Two were White Americans, one was Asian American, and one was African American. Dimadick (talk) 19:20, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

While agreeing that the descriptor "white" is fine to stay, I don't think that it should stay because it "supports a common belief that his murder was racially motivated."

Additionally, rather than using the limited scope of the cited (outdated) articles for the first paragraph in the Death section, why not use a more recent source to sculpt the first paragraph? Articles from May, while capturing the gravity of the ramifications, are lacking substance and instead rely on speculation and pathos. SaintRedemptus (talk) 08:33, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

@SaintRedemptus:: Ideally the lead section just summarizes points already supported in the body. Per MOS:LEADCITE, citations are generally not needed in the lead. However, this being a controversial subject, citations have probably remained to fend off potential debates. Feel free to suggest any improvements; it's most effective if you have the specific text you would like to add/change/remove. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 08:51, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

@Lima Bean Farmer:, this incident is not a murder and as mentioned, only 2 out of 4 officers were white. also, this "common belief" that it was racially motivated is just not the case, therefor "simply supporting" it doesn't make any sense at this time. Stayfree76 (talk) 20:53, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Actually Stayfree76, it was a murder. I’m not saying that based on my beliefs, the officers were charged with murdering him. So yes, it is a murder. Yes, two of the officers were of other ethnicities, maybe there’s a better way to put that. But I wanted to clarify that this incident is considered murder. Thank you! Lima Bean Farmer (talk) 21:15, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Lima Bean Farmer, in the US you are innocent until proven guilty, therefor it is not murder until a judge or a jury of your peers says so, depending. Stayfree76 (talk) 21:40, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

ZJoe2234 makes a valid point. There is no indication Derek Chauvin was racist in any way. I think removal of the terminology "white" police officer should seriously be considered. Bus stop (talk) 22:15, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Stayfree76, that’s absolutely not true, while in the court of law, you are innocent until proven guilty, that does not mean that you didn’t commit a crime. Nikolas Cruz, the shooter at Parkland still has not faced trial over two years later. We don’t consider that “not a murder”. This is a murder since all four officers were charged with murder. Lima Bean Farmer (talk) 22:20, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Lima Bean Farmer, I'm going to stop humoring you after this statement. 1. the person you mentioned is not a murderer at this time as he has not been convicted of murder. 2. he confessed to the crimes, so there is self incrimination involved with the case.

you need to fix yourself immediately because you are engaging in libel which is an actionable offense in us civil court. see: https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-covington-nick-sandmann-settlement for what can happen to people or orgs that disregard this fact. Stayfree76 (talk) 22:47, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

"Nearly" eight minutes

Hello! I was going to edit the part that is linked saying "nearly eight minutes" to be a tad more accurate because reading it confused me for a second. Is that a correct statement, or should it actually say "nearly nine minutes" since it was 8 minutes and 46 seconds? It confused me since it says "nearly" eight minutes, meaning not eight minutes, but it's over eight minutes and nearly nine minutes. Would it be more accurate to rewrite it and put "nearly nine minutes" instead since it was 15 seconds to 9 minutes? Thanks! A Wild Abigail Appears! _{Capture me.} _Moves. 18:43, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi, AbigailAbernathy! Thanks so much for coming to talk first. The time period has since original reports been corrected from nearly 9 to nearly 8, per the sources/notes. —valereee (talk) 18:49, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Ah I did not see the note next to the eight minutes in the top paragraph, just did some looking around. Thank you for clarifying! A Wild Abigail Appears! _{Capture me.} _Moves. 20:34, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 August 2020

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

WGF201 (talk) 19:24, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Later life (after the sentence ..."and his Third Ward pride." insert above text) Between 1997 and 2007, Floyd was sentenced to jail terms nine different times on various charges. These include drug possession, theft, trespass, and aggravated armed robbery. – reference: https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/06/12/george-floyd-criminal-record/ In August of 1997, he was convicted to six months’ jail-time for drug possession. The following year, he served a total of ten months in jail for two separate charges of theft, on September 25, 1998, and December 9, 1998, respectively. In August of 2001, he was sentenced to 15 days in prison for failure of identification to a police officer. In the 2002-2005 period, he served a total of 30 months’ jail time for four different cases of breaking the law. These amounted to three different instances of drug possession – on October 29, 2002, on February 6, 2004, and on December 15, 2005; and one instance of criminal trespassing – on January 3, 2003. Finally, in 2007, after taking part in a home invasion incident which took place on August 7, Floyd was arrested for aggravated armed robbery, and pleaded guilty to the charges in 2009. He was sentenced to five years in prison, and was paroled in January 2013.

Death (after the sentence ..."emergency medical technicians arrived." insert above text) Upon his death, legal action was immediately taken by Floyd’s family. Reference: https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/07/15/891221766/floyd-family-attorneys-to-announce-a-civil-lawsuit-against-minneapolis-and-polic The lead attorney on his case, Benjamin Crump, provides legal representation for the other two figurehead cases of criminal injustice that have stood at the basis of the black lives matter movement – the killing of Ahmaud Arbery and the shooting of Breonna Taylor. – reference: https://bencrump.com/ben-crump-on-the-george-floyd-case/ From a lawful standpoint, Floyd’s murder is considered a direct instance of applied personal injury law, and as such, his legal team is formed of attorneys that are specialized in this field of activity. – reference: https://www.pintas.com/victims-of-discrimination/

(after the sentence ..."have theorized positional asphyxia." insert above text) Following a post-mortem toxicology screening, it was discovered that Floyd’s body tested positive for 11 ng/mL of fentanyl and 19 ng/mL of methamphetamine. However, according to medical analysis, the mere presence of the drugs in his bloodstream, especially in such low quantities, presents inconclusive and insubstantial. Any claims of Floyd’s loss of consciousness being resulted from substance abuse are therefore medically unfounded. – reference: https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/06/12/george-floyd-criminal-record/

Not done Nah. Prior convictions aren't relevant here. --Jorm (talk) 19:42, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
The criminal history is actully already covered in the article. It'd be more helpful to say what needs changing as opposed to providing a full rewrite of sorts.—Bagumba (talk) 08:47, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

WGF201 I'd suggest requesting a single edit at a time, in this format: "Change X to Y, because Z, here's the source." Short as possible. You're giving us way too much information and asking us to analyze it to understand what your point is. —valereee (talk) 20:28, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Categories: