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Welcome

June 2020

Hello, I'm Vanamonde93. An edit that you recently made to Godhra train burning seemed to be a test and has been removed. If you want to practice editing, please use the sandbox. If you think a mistake was made, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks!Template:Z191 Vanamonde (Talk) 16:57, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Yeah true i was testing. @Vanamonde93:

Sorry Heba Aisha (talk) 17:24, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

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Thanks

I am also a Bihari and I am happy that you are doing good for us. Amrapahal Pahanswan (talk) 16:35, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

• @Amrapahal Pahanswan: ure welcome.If you want me to help you to improve any other article related to bihar.Dont shy and just tell on my talk page.Heba Aisha (talk) 16:41, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Sister, I have published article on Jagdanand Singh giving a citation by The Economics Times describing his caste，political affluence, till it was deleted. Amrapahal Pahanswan (talk) 16:48, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

• This is because you copied the whole material from source u listed there.Misplaced Pages takes copyright violation very seriously.So you need to write in ur own words.Second ... caste of a living person can be told only if in the source they say themselves that they belong to that particular caste group.If this is not done it amounts to WP:BLP violation.Also you should not use words like great, excellent, extraordinary etc as one of Misplaced Pages policy called WP:Puffery and WP:POV tells us to maintain neutrality while writing an article.Start once again that article. ...good luck. Heba Aisha (talk) 08:19, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

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Majority of People who use " Yadav " surname in Haryana are " Ahirs" only. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Har1990 (talk • contribs) 20:31, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

I have added another source that clearly mentions " 114 were Ahirs" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Har1990 (talk • contribs) 20:33, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Anyways I have removed the Rezang La section for now. I have also removed the image as there was no image before.Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Har1990 (talk • contribs) 20:54, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

I have removed picture.There was no picture in past and I don't think its important to have image of particular individual in this article — Preceding unsigned comment added by Har1990 (talk • contribs) 21:11, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Picture of Ahir King Rao Tula Ram was added . Then someone changed it and added picture of some Individual based on British Raj records. Its better not to have any image here. If you wanna include it , please tell why its necessary.Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Har1990 (talk • contribs) 21:40, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

And I am not sure which one is added first . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Har1990 (talk • contribs) 21:42, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Peasants and Monks in British India, William R. Pinch

Dear Sis, You are doing awesome work on Misplaced Pages. congrats! BTW, I noticed you used Peasants and Monks in British India by William R. Pinch at several places.It is freely available here. Please see https://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft22900465 Also, for some "pure shudra" castes in early 1800s , please see https://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft22900465&chunk.id=s1.2.11&toc.depth=1&toc.id=ch2 See "Buchanan, in the early nineteenth century, had included in the term “pure shudra” the well-known designations of Kayasth, Koiri, Kurmi, Kahar, Goala, Dhanuk (archers, cultivators, palanquin bearers), Halwai (sweets vendor), Mali (flower gardener), Barai (cultivator and vendor of betel-leaf), Sonar (goldsmith), Kandu (grain parcher), and Gareri (blanket weavers and shepherds).". If you click on the number 108, you will notice that he is talking about Bihar and Patna only. 108. Buchanan, Bihar and Patna, 1811–1812, 1:329–39; Martin, Eastern India, 2:466–70. Buchanan notes that in Gorakhpur both Halwais and Kandus were included as Vaishyas and thus considered twice-born (Martin, Eastern India, 2:465). Also, that chapter refers to North India only. Hence as a general suggestion, we need to be careful before generalizing and need to qualify these groups with "Bihar/Patna" as they may be under different classification elsewhere whenever we use this chapter. As an example, this may not apply to same caste names from other states. For example, Sonar in Maharashtra came from Brahmins and were called Daivadnya Brahmins - and they had thread ceremonies too. I was looking at some of your recent edits and noticed that you were generalizing this statement for disparate groups on some pages. Hence the suggestion. Hope the link helps. Best Regards,LukeEmily (talk) 21:46, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

• well thanks..... i will see sources you share.....i Am sick of people trying to glorify caste by removing images etc etc. My edits are on the basis of few books i have read on Bihar's caste and polity which i use in almost all edits.I will see these sources too.ThanksHeba Aisha (talk) 23:45, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

You mentioned some editors do not like SUNY press which is an academic press hence I was surprised. Do you know any instances where they have reverted edits from SUNY press? The authors of SUNY press are usually well known scholars.LukeEmily (talk) 22:40, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

• No, not any incident yet.But I have seen them inadvertently reverted sourced content if some discrepancies are found.Heba Aisha (talk) 23:59, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

AWARD for you

		The Curator Barnstar
		I have seen your recent activities.YOU have improved many caste articles by putting suitable images which are generally hard to find.SO you deserve it.CONGO 106.67.90.215 (talk) 02:20, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

I didn't knew that....adding images brings dis 😀Heba Aisha (talk) 02:59, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Heba, thank you for your edits

My respects to the superior knowledge that you have attained over the years. Thanks for contributing to wikipedia. I saw your recent edits of Kayastha page. You have added a few theories that claim that Bhumihar and Kayastha of Bihar are Shudra. You probably do understand that these contentions have been debated for ages and both these groups have proved beyond doubt their high ritual status in religious as well as legal courts. Nevertheless the contention did exist and you are welcome to add the same to the page. But to be fair, the other side of the contention should also be fairly added. The decision of Banaras pandits regarding these may be impartiality added.

As per Padma Purana, Bhavishya Purana and the decision of Banaras Pandits in the year 1779 AD on varna status of various sub-groups of Kayastha, they are considered to be Brahmins.

Add the same to Varna/classification section of the page, if you find it useful and relevant. Thanks in advance. I hope you continue the good work.

Vikram Q1W2 (talk) 09:14, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

• @Vikram Q1W2: Hi first of all thanks for saying all this.But,after talking with the senior editors on Misplaced Pages like Sitush and Utcursch(He is an administrator) i came to know that pre independence era sources on caste related pages are not considered neutral sources as for example: Todd used to write about Rajputs and most of the later historians recognise him as biased author.Same is the case with various communities as those who were close to Britishers due to various reasons tried to prove their higher status and upward mobilisation was evident.As for example: The Kushwaha community, they are also shudra but they tried to assume kshatriya status due to their closeness to the british provided their role in opium production.

If you have doubt then you can ask the above two editors i mentioned or can discuss on Misplaced Pages india related page discussion forum.If i add they will revert it sooner or later as source you provided is of period before 1947.Heba Aisha (talk) 09:36, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

No issues, I can provide you a post-1947 book which refers to this letter. Will that help you be impartial? Vikram Q1W2 (talk) 09:43, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

• Will see and if quality of the source i mean publication is good i must add.Heba Aisha (talk) 09:46, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes it is a standard book. Milton Israel’s book of 1987 refers to this translation of Gupte of 1779 AD letter of Banaras Pandits to Peshwa Darbar. Vikram Q1W2 (talk) 09:58, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

• What new things you want to be added??Heba Aisha (talk) 10:02, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

On the other hand, as per Padma Purana, Bhavishya Purana and the decision of Banaras Pandits in the year 1779 AD on varna status of various sub-groups of Kayastha, they are considered to be Brahmins.

Add the same to Varna/classification section of the Kayastha page. Thanks in advance. I hope you continue the good work. Vikram Q1W2 (talk) 10:17, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

• Bro just see the section above the verna section in Kayastha article.....the same source and the same thing is already thereHeba Aisha (talk) 14:35, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
• Also, see last passage of varna section....here also CKP is noted as equal to brahmins and its clearly written dereHeba Aisha (talk) 14:49, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

I can't see these sources- anywhere on Kayastha page nor in the reference list. Which page are you looking at? Even if they are there reformatting may be done, since new regional sources have been recently added by you. In my opinion, the above mentioned statement with sources may be added before or after your additions, to present the complete contention. Hope you appreciate the concern. Vikram Q1W2 (talk) 14:57, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

• source 23 is the book of the same author.second I can't write in exactly same way i.e Descision of banaras pundits it will be the violation of WP:POV.Also i am sure padma purana and other purana as verification will not be liked by senior editors so i don't want my edits to be reverted.see for edample Kudumbar article.Here also people who were concerned wrote a lot of good things and Sitush reverted all those things in such a manner that now nothing is there.check the history of that article. YOU shud pray that they don't examine Srivastava article. I doubt they can do similar thing with that too.So chill as some of the sentence still write Kayastha as brahmins.You just glance through their edit history you will know which type of sources they don't wantHeba Aisha (talk) 15:14, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
• see these edits https://en.m.wikipedia.org/Special:MobileDiff/963210376

■https://en.m.wikipedia.org/Special:MobileDiff/963210741

Hey bro, let me give it to you straight, you should pray that your impersonation as a women or a muslim to spread caste and religion based hatred is not discovered soon. The trick that you are trying here has been played for too long on youtube and other platforms. See you after Bihar elections. Till then. Vikram Q1W2 (talk) 15:24, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

●■No personal commentsHeba Aisha (talk) 15:30, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

●■Also for your allegations see WP:NotcensoredHeba Aisha (talk) 15:44, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

References

1. Gupte, TV. "Appendix I.(page 7)". Translation of 1779 AD letter of Banaras Pandits to Peshwa Darbar regarding varna status of various Kayastha sub-groups. p. 8. "Kayasthas are said to be of three sorts (kinds)— (1) the Chitragupta Kayasthas (2) Dhalbhaga Gatri Kshatriya Kayasthas and (3) Kayasthas of the mixed blood. The origin of Chitraguptavanshi Kayasthas is given in the Puranas. He was born from the body of Brahma while he was contemplating how he should know the good and evil acts of living beings. He was a brilliant person with pen and ink in his hands. He was known as Chitragupta and was placed near the God of death. He was appointed to record the good and evil acts of men. He was a Brahmin possessed of supra sensible knowledge. He was a god sharing the offerings at sacrifices. All the Brahmins offer him oblations of rice before taking their meals. He is called Kayastha because of his origin from the body of Brahma. Many descendants of his bearing different Gotras still exist on this earth. From this it will be seen that Kayastha Brahmins of Karhada and Khandesha are the Brahma-Kayasthas. Now about the origin of Chandraseniya Kshatriya Kayastha
2. Milton Israel and N.K.Wagle, ed. (1987). Religion and Society in Maharashtra. Center for South Asian Studies, University of Toronto, Canada. p. 173.
3. Gupte, TV. "Appendix I.(page 7)". Translation of 1779 AD letter of Banaras Pandits to Peshwa Darbar regarding varna status of various Kayastha sub-groups. p. 8. "Kayasthas are said to be of three sorts (kinds)— (1) the Chitragupta Kayasthas (2) Dhalbhaga Gatri Kshatriya Kayasthas and (3) Kayasthas of the mixed blood. The origin of Chitraguptavanshi Kayasthas is given in the Puranas. He was born from the body of Brahma while he was contemplating how he should know the good and evil acts of living beings. He was a brilliant person with pen and ink in his hands. He was known as Chitragupta and was placed near the God of death. He was appointed to record the good and evil acts of men. He was a Brahmin possessed of supra sensible knowledge. He was a god sharing the offerings at sacrifices. All the Brahmins offer him oblations of rice before taking their meals. He is called Kayastha because of his origin from the body of Brahma. Many descendants of his bearing different Gotras still exist on this earth. From this it will be seen that Kayastha Brahmins of Karhada and Khandesha are the Brahma-Kayasthas. Now about the origin of Chandraseniya Kshatriya Kayastha
4. Milton Israel and N.K.Wagle, ed. (1987). Religion and Society in Maharashtra. Center for South Asian Studies, University of Toronto, Canada. p. 173.

This is for you

		The Special Barnstar
		Hi this is for writing about Kushwaha community.You helped to bring it to the world that community is not irrelevant as the article portrayed earlier lest you edited it.I am thankful to you for this but hope that the shudra status should be changed as we are not shudra.Thanks 2402:8100:3A07:C5D6:0:0:1F8D:483B (talk) 03:27, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

• I m sorry if you find it offensive but this is an Encyclopedia and we write what is true.What you are saying and for the purpose you are here is not new.See above a person had same problem as of yours and now he's here with another account to revert all my edits.Hope you not take it in another way.RegardsHeba Aisha (talk) 03:38, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

You are welcome.

Fylindfotberserk (talk) 06:17, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

• @Fylindfotberserk:....thanks btw reason for the gift??Heba Aisha (talk) 07:28, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Firstly, because you thanked my edit. Secondly, you seem to be doing a nice work here. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:33, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

• Glad to know that.I m happy that someone recognised it.Thnk u so much.Heba Aisha (talk) 07:35, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Keep doing the good work and keep discussing with the Misplaced Pages community whenever you get confused over something. You'll get more of these barnstars and 'gifts'. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:41, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

• Thanks for guidance.I'll😊Heba Aisha (talk) 07:43, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

I reported them. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 09:53, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

• He is reverting all my past edits and recently i was creating an article that too.Can i do something in my setting to stop him.I m on mobileHeba Aisha (talk) 09:54, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Restore your edits. But add proper sources like Kamangiri art article, which is unsourced. Secondly, do not make changes on gut feeling like you did here. Change content using source or consult people like Sitush who are well versed in caste/tribe related topics. Sheeba Asia got blocked/indefed See Here. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:02, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanku....i was about to add refrence to the article but that message really disturbed me.Btw he was not due to image at Dhangar article.I never add anything without source.Is it possible that someone can misuse my account in the same way.How to protect future redirects..?I m not much techno savy....let me confess.Heba Aisha (talk) 10:07, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

The new one also got blocked. They may try again. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:13, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

What to do?Heba Aisha (talk) 14:29, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Ms.Heba Aisha I don't mean to snoop on your private conversation with Mr.Fylindfotberserk but you can use Misplaced Pages:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism and Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_administrator_attention. LukeEmily (talk) 16:10, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

There is another, relevant for this kind of troll WP:UAA. Thanks LukeEmily. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:19, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

• Thnks both of u @Fylindfotberserk: and @LukeEmily:.@Materialscientist: has blocked another Sockpuppet of the troller @Wikipage Citecheck:😀cheers¡Heba Aisha (talk) 23:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Nice. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:09, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

only for you

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		I have been following your edits and your hard work certainly deserves a lot of praise.

LukeEmily (talk) 12:24, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

• Early morning surprise gift for me....lot of thanks @LukeEmily:Heba Aisha (talk) 23:51, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Battle of Maonda

Please check the article Battle of Maonda and Mandholi. There seems to be a lot of changes and removal of trusted sources like Jadunath Sarkar with personal remarks. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2402:8100:387E:59A6:1:0:54A3:1926 (talk) 05:47, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Please check I have written in my own words. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2402:8100:3853:2302:1:0:54E7:55F1 (talk) 06:48, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• calm down report on administrator attention against vandalismHeba Aisha (talk) 07:46, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

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Jawahar Singh

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User:LukeSmily

This user left a message on my talk page and your talk page suspecting we are sockpuppets. Interestingly, it happened seconds after I replied on the Rajput page supporting that image you supported. Maybe some admin should intervene and see who LukeSmily is. Obviously, he is after me based on his name. LukeEmily (talk) 19:10, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

• i don't understand what u are saying.I was trolled by someone u know that let me check if someone again have created redirect to my account Heba Aisha (talk) 01:23, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
• user:LukeSmily is blocked.this is exactly same what happened to me.Someone is also trolling you like that editor did to me by making several accounts namely user:Sheeba Aisha, user:Hiba Aisha user:Heeba Aisha and many more......you may report here.By the way he is blocked.Heba Aisha (talk) 01:32, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
• I have checked he created a redirect to ur account.whenever u get notification regarding it plz lodge complaint on WP:UAAHeba Aisha (talk) 01:35, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Few editing tips

Hello, Heba Aisha. Please don't move any other talk page comment as that will create further confusion. You should use a colon (see WP:Indentation) to reply to a comment rather than using an asterisk mark. Also, one should provide diffs rather copy-pasting whole comments of other editors – please see WP:Diff.

Finally, an article's talk page is meant for discussing things related to the improvement of that article. So other article or general behaviour of users should not be discussed there – please see WP:TPG. Thanks. - NitinMlk (talk) 11:15, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Ok....Btw plz open sockpuppetry investigation against Sajaypal007 he is making personal attacks on me by making fake accounts like LukeSmily and Lukhiba.I m busy elsewhere.TqHeba Aisha (talk) 11:17, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

An SPI case can only be opened if there is behavioural evidence between the accounts. I don't think Sajaypal007 is connected to those sockpuppets. So there is no need to open an SPI. BTW, please ignore these sockpuppets and vandals. - NitinMlk (talk) 11:26, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Ok thank uHeba Aisha (talk) 11:27, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Personal attacks.

I have asked you 2-3 times to not accuse me of Caste boosterism and Sockpuppetry. For Caste boosterism I have explained to you on multiple occassion. Earlier too you have warned me to not edit Rajput page otherwise Ill be banned when it was not an edit war I merely made 2 edits. It is against the rules. I have also asked you to twice to not accuse me of sockpuppetry without any evidence. You even filed complaint against me without any evidence. This is not acceptable please refrain from such behaviour in future. Sajaypal007 (talk) 12:05, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

If you were at my place u have did the same.I m attacked 7 times until now by various new accounts and fortunately all of them are blocked now.Heba Aisha (talk) 06:12, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Dont remove cited sources?

Please dont remove the cited sources which you did twice on Maonda battle page. Look at the publication before comparing it with older version of the book. This can be considered disruptive editing. Please keep in mind. Sajaypal007 (talk) 15:41, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

• I have left the book on talk page volume 2 no mention of battleHeba Aisha (talk) 15:42, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Read before writing. I said its different and newer version of the book and publication was mentioned in the source itself. See that, what you mentioned is different publication. Please dont delete without verifying those details. Sajaypal007 (talk) 16:27, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

okHeba Aisha (talk) 16:35, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

also plz put sources in the format applicable on wikipedia you do not mention detail about book or its link etcHeba Aisha (talk) 16:36, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

About the photo you added on the Meenas wiki page

Why you have added a photo with the caption "Meenas, Hindoos of low caste, vagrants, Delhi."?

1. if the source is old does not mean it is correct or reviewed work. How a photo dated -1868 - 1875 is relevant? We are in 2020, do Meenas still live and are vagrants? Do you know how many divisions are there within Meena tribe?

2. Meenas are not natives of Delhi, as photo caption is stating.

3. Meenas in Rajasthan come under tribe, NOT a CASTE and do not fall under Hindu cast systems, hence, no point in stating low or hight cast.

So, the photo and caption are misleading and do not represent the correct status of Meenas. So, please remove it or find a photo represents Meenas in factual terms. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.242.49.5 (talk) 21:44, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

• what i find after tiring search was that pic only if u have another one give it i will replace tqHeba Aisha (talk) 07:01, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Important notice

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date. You have shown interest in South Asian social groups. Due to past disruption in this topic area, the community has enacted a more stringent set of rules. Any administrator may impose sanctions - such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks - on editors who do not strictly follow Misplaced Pages's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic. For additional information, please see the guidance on these sanctions. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

Template:Z33 GeneralNotability (talk) 00:40, 2 September 2020 (UTC)