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Swati (Pashtun tribe) talk page topics deleted by Haider khan10

• Swati (Pashtun tribe) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
• USaamo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Haider khan10 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Azmarai76 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

The editor removed all topics from the talk page of the article. This is what they always do.... Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 15:26, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I fail to understand what has he done may be this what he wanted.... anyway he made edits to the article without reaching a consensus. I didn't undo it but I guess it's enough to prove he destroys these articles. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 16:15, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I've put four months of full protection on the article. Protection can be lifted as soon as agreement is reached on the talk page. See WP:Dispute resolution for steps you can take. I don't see evidence that either of you is 'destroying' the article, but I see continuous edit warring between the two of you and (in my opinion) a lot of bad sources. In your post you claim that 'the editor removed all topics from the talk page of the article' but I don't see where they did that. EdJohnston (talk) 18:41, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't see much of the topics rather I only see re reading reply this as heading. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:52, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't understand your reply. EdJohnston (talk) 19:02, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

He actually meant that the other editor is replying by opening new sections on talk and giving that a heading which actually they both are doing. This felt like shouting in reply and was like spamming the talk, making it unreadable and inaccessible. I to some extent fixed this by creating subsections but they both are seem unaware of talkpage guidelines and discussing it aggressively making it to difficult to reach a consensus. USaamo 09:14, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

@EdJohnston: Thanks for your help by sending in USaamo ,however, the user in question wants to change the racial identity of this tribe due his own alignment. USaamo and I both tried and rather USaamo gave him two very neutral ledes but the guy seems to be bent on making Swatis cis Indus tribe living Khyber Pukhtunkhawa as pure Pashtuns. The reality is this tribe is Pashtunized race of Tajiks called Dehqans (not ordinary farmer in local language).

You can ask USaamo further about it. I am really looking forward to help from you, please.

Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 19:40, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

As they say you can teach a person but knows everything already and still ignores nothing can be done... same is the case here... I expect if USaamo also reports to you on what efforts we have done to make him understand not to distort facts. Azmarai76 (talk) 20:04, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

@EdJohnston USaamo and I will both need your intervention as USaamo has seen Haider khan10 isn't doing anything else but to make articles vague and what suits his purpose. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 10:57, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello Azmarai76. At the head of Swati (Pashtun tribe), there is a citation to a Reference 2. It is given as "Tazkara by Khan Roshan Khan". Do you have any idea what this is? If it is a book, have you seen it? Can you provide any book details? If you know how to make Misplaced Pages references, can you propose the wording to use on the talk page? That way we can add a properly-formatted reference. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 19:30, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't have the book online but it simply made everyone Pukhtun written by one Roshan Khan who was a known Pashtun Nationalist however I can tell you this much about every tribe is a Pashtun to grab more votes. His paragraph on Swatis was since these people have village named Buttal in their district they are Bhittanis". Just four lines about Swatis nothing more it was printed in 70s in Urdu, Pashto and Persian also. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 19:45, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

It had no references to ty his effect but made alot forget their origins USaamo can shed more light on it. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:47, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

That book is not a scholarly source, written by some wannabe Pashtun nationalist relied heavily on rhetoric. Even some of British Raj sources mentioning Swatis as Pashtuns are mainly those of land records and were made because Swatis back then spoke Pashto and followed Pashtunwali living with Pashtuns for years which can safely be called Pashtunization of the tribe.

• Dear Edjohnston as I said you previously that I have a background over the dispute so I intervened in their discussion and first gave my take with some references I had for my point by opening a new section for consensus building. It started a never ending argument where I didn't take much part and it was mainly between Azmarai76 and Haider khan10, except for I coming in for support of my argument. I see that the very problem was the origin of the tribe which Azmarai76 was claiming to be Dehqan/Tajik/Persian while Haider khan10 was of opinion that it's Pashtun. Anyhow in the argument Haider khan10 accepted it but drawn comparison with another tribe whose origin was Turkic and are considered Pashtuns and reiterated his stance that they should also be written as Pashtun. My stance in all this was that origin of the tribe is important so it should be mentioned as it is which I believe is Dehqan. Seeing no flexibility in their stances I suggested them a neutral lede which has mention of both the origins. Azmarai76 accepted it but Haider khan10 continued to hold his point and they continued their argumentation which I believe was aggressive and to some extent uncivil from both sides and even had personal attacks(for which they themselves clarify where and why because I'm not speaking for them here though I warned them that it's against policies here). So, I went on to propose another lede and made it further neutral and like previous proposal I said them that whatever else they both have we'll mention it in the body as per sources. Azmarai76 somehow accepted but Haider khan10 was still insistent that it should clearly mention them as Pashtun tribe and then both the origins. So after which I felt it can't be resolved this way and suggested Azmarai76 to pursue his options.

I believe it's more than just a content dispute and is a behavioral problem especially from Haider khan10's side. He took this argument so personal and has continuously said that you are doing this against my tribe with which somehow I'm also associated but it's not at all the way an editor should edit because personal affiliations doesn't really matter while we are here to build an encyclopedia. He's hell bent on this and showing no signs of any flexibility in his stance that he will not allow any other thing for it which I believe is the battleground mentality and is stonewalling. I have told them both about the policies they are going against with my comments in discussion which they didn't seem to be much aware of before. So that's all what I saw and what I felt. Thanks and regards! USaamo 20:21, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

USaamo I am grateful but if I hadn't spent this much time here noone would believe the guy has been distorting facts since long here..... he exposed himself and you saw it yourself else for me it's a Misplaced Pages page while such people sneak in and make changes wherever they can and many don't even know what they have done. I kept myself to as much I could to the Misplaced Pages standards but at times unless you have to dig as to why exactly anyone would do such things, I have learnt it was just nationalist politics and pushing a few books unauthentic books with the same mindset. Regards you have been a great help I am grateful. Azmarai76 (talk) 20:52, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Blocked on request by user Aviartm

Hello, apparently I was blocked by you on request of Aviartm - he had reverted my edits for more than 3 times in a 24 hours period himself. Please also take action against his user account. Thank you. Michael.alexander.kaufmann (talk) 13:02, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Hounding

• Abbasquadir (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• HistoryofIran (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Yazid I (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
• Shaki Khanate (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
• WP:BLPN#Potentially defamatory content at Jiah Khan

Hi there. I started to revert some of this users edits (on articles that are on my watchlist), such as Yazid I which ignored WP:RS and MOS:LEAD (). Instead of taking my advice and reading the rules, he started hounding me, reverting two of my edits which I did a few days ago ( and ). --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:15, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

• Comment: Hey Ed, I saw your talk page notification here. I had a run-in with Abbasquadir at Jiah Khan and Talk:Jiah Khan and Sooraj Pancholi and Talk:Sooraj Pancholi.
  1. The initial interaction involved them violating copyrights by posting Jiah Khan's full suicide note at both of these talk pages. I redacted the content and provided a clear explanation about why I redacted it (copyright violation), but Abba restored it on one of the talk pages, somehow thinking he knew better about how you could only violate copyrights if the content was in the article.
  2. After that, I had to remove potentially defamatory content at the Jiah Khan article, because (assuming the best of faith, and not just lousy English skills) Abbasquadir was trying to summarise a summary of a POOR source that misquoted the contents of Jiah Khan's suicide note. I don't know if it was a language barrier issue, but the fact that Abbasquadir couldn't figure out that the content was problematic was, in itself, problematic. The result of that, was that potentially defamatory content about Sooraj Pancholi was introduced into the article. You can see it here: It starts with a totally inappropriate section heading, and then just blossoms from there.
  3. I reverted that first introduction at roughly 21:11 19 August 2020 UTC. I then left a talk page comment at roughly 21:24 19 August 2020. The user didn't respond, and then restored the content. I warned them not to do that here, and explained again why the content was problematic, but the editor restored it again here, at which point I went to BLPN, only because BLPs aren't exactly my specialty. I probably would have pulled his editing card at that point, otherwise.
  4. Once at BLPN, which you can see in this version of the page, the user misrepresented the details of this conflict alleging that I didn't provide an explanation, which is obviously untrue, since I provided two.
  5. So summarising: Abbasquadir seems to edit per their whims, they don't seem to care about community standards, they think they know more about copyrights than others, and they don't seem to have compunctions about misrepresenting details. Also, they have been warned about ArbCom sanctions in the India/Pakistan/Afghanistan area here, and for more perspective about their participation style, note how quickly their talk page comments get archived, manually or otherwise, and even note their attempts to erase warnings from their archive. I think you see where I'm going here.

Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 05:38, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

User:Cyphoidbomb, I read your report at WP:BLPN#Potentially defamatory content at Jiah Khan. Your argument is that that Abbasquadir added material to Jiah Khan's article that is defamatory to Sooraj Pancholi and then made some reverts to keep the suicide note in the article. I hope that User:Abbasquadir will respond to the concerns expressed. Fortunately Abbasquadir has not continued to revert at Jiah Khan since 21 August. But the edit wars at Shaki Khanate and Yazid I seem like they could be ongoing, since there were some reverts by Abbasquadir with a date of August 30. EdJohnston (talk) 13:09, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

I didn't say it above, but I'm not seeking sanctions for this stuff. I'm providing you with supplementary info about the user in case it shapes an opinion about their editing behaviour as part of a community. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 14:51, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Paid advocacy accusations

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• Anastan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Hey, Ed. Hope you're safe and well. So, there have been several move discussions in Kosovo-related articles. The better known in terms of daily readership are: Talk:Vučitrn#Requested move 20 August 2020 and Talk:Peć#Requested move 18 August 2020. There have been raised several concerns about canvassing attempts which affect the result. In fact, a similar editing pattern was observed at an AfD I filed a few weeks ago: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Destruction of books in post-independence Croatia. As a result, they have been relisted. Today, an editor (Anastan) who opposed all moves about a week ago, made a series of similar comments across three different discussions in which he accused Most of the Support users, including the one who opened this request and the one who attacked me just now, opened their account within days and one month to each other, at the end of 2019, during the Wiki Academy Kosovo event. The dates of duration of event lined with our "new neutral users" appearances on Misplaced Pages. It is obvious that Republic of Kosovo is using new editors again, as we have witnessed several times in the past years they already did, as their national agenda pov pushers and fighters. We already know that they educate new users to use English Misplaced Pages as pro-Albanian propaganda advocacy tool, and that is strictly forbidden by WP:ARBMAC. and that Admins should be well aware that those requests are very much disputable, and therefor, consensus reached is actually not consensus, but organised and paid political advocacy. It's obvious that Mikola22 who opened the discussion about the title of Vučitrn is not a paid advocacy account. Neither am I, nor is any of the ca. 25-30 editors across all articles - many of wildly different backgrounds - who have supported the moves paid by any government entity. Paid advocacy accusations which concern relations to government agencies are egregious and undermine the integrity of the project.--Maleschreiber (talk) 11:54, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

I think we all have a common goal and that is to improve Misplaced Pages articles. If editor Anastan have a problem with that it is not in good faith to go around and accuse editors without evidence. It would be good that such behavior is sanctioned. All of us who have a different opinion about some techniques are probably prepared from "the Albanian secret service"? Such promotion of conspiracy theories only bring nervousness to the editing of Misplaced Pages articles which is probable the main goal of these false accusations. I expect a clear and concrete move from the Misplaced Pages authorities that such accusations do not happen again. Mikola22 (talk) 12:25, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Leaving a ping for User:Anastan in case they want to respond. This is not the first time that Misplaced Pages has had to deal with difficult Balkan-related move discussions. Experienced closers should be able to detect and appropriately respond to any genuine canvassing. The advice in WP:PLACE is still good. EdJohnston (talk) 14:57, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I'm also certain about that - so far all of these discussions have been relisted. The larger problem is not the "canvassing" accusation, because any admin can discern the extent at which this has actually happened or if someone just raised an irrelevant grievance. The problem is that now we have accusations of paid advocacy and relations to a government agency. Honestly, I would prefer these edits to be deleted. Editors can't put forward something that serious without any accountability. I thought that Template:User link pinged editors in the same way as !ping.--Maleschreiber (talk) 15:17, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

• It is so sad to see that move discussions keep being redirected to accusations and conspiracies. I do not want to get involved in such a pointless mess, however, I would like to bring some history to your attention. In 2018 Anastan got blocked for a week for off-Wiki coordination. In a separate case in 2013, some accounts (Psladja1402, Sermonija, Srbin100%, Stublinac) were created the same day, and a few days later Anastan created their userpages(!); one could go on and follow Anastan's example, and say that there was again off-Wiki stuff involved. I agree with EdJohnston that such Balkan issues are messy, and if this round of accusations persists, AE would be the right place. Another admin, @Peacemaker67: has recently made good use of AE to deal with Balkan disruption. Others might find that path useful. However, the hope is that good faith will prevail here, and unproven accusations will stop. Ktrimi991 (talk) 15:54, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
  • The problem is that Anastan's false accusations remain on the page where important things are discussed. It’s actually throwing dust in the eyes of other editors who would like to give their opinion in this and other case. First I was a Croatian Nazi, now I am Albanian mercenary. Where have I come? I'm just waiting to become a Russian spy. Sorry EdJohnston for reply on this page, I know you have a smarter job to do than dealing with us "spies".Mikola22 (talk) 16:12, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

WP:ASPERSIONs against Mikola22 are getting worse at Talk:Vučitrn so I understand their frustration. --Maleschreiber (talk) 16:43, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

If anyone thinks that some comments by User:Anastan should be struck out of move discussions, can you provide a list of diffs here? EdJohnston (talk) 16:55, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

.--Maleschreiber (talk) 17:04, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

I don’t think anyone is paid, that’s insane to me. Editors sometimes approach too emotionally. I have tried several times to point out the polarized and very tense atmosphere on Balkan topics. It was wrong to launch several similar RfCs and RMs at the same time, until at least one situation is resolved and tensions calm down. Quality and productive discussion cannot be conducted in these conditions. Bias and canvasing on both sides were obvious. Personally, I am already used to being declared both a “Serbian traitor” and a “Serbian ultranationalist” because I try to balance and add parts that criticize all nationalisms and authoritarian regimes. Admins persistently ignore a lot of my reports for serious offenses that could even endanger me. Only editors who were characterized as pro-Serbian were sanctioned, although much more serious policies violations from the “opposite side” were ignored, including threats, long term abuse, publication of private information, etc. @Maleschreiber: Please stop dragging me into this story. I didn't accuse anyone of anything.--WEBDuB (talk) 16:57, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

You put forward some heavy stuff about Mikola22 - regardless of the paid advocacy which I never linked you to - and I notified you that if you have evidence/diffs against Mikola22, you can always report them and both you and they will be scrutinized at AE. But WP:ASPERSIONs are not acceptable in a cooperative environment.--Maleschreiber (talk) 17:04, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

That is not true either. I mentioned Mikola22 in just one sentence. It was more a question than claim or accusation. The rest of the message quoted by you was general, it did not refer to any specific editor. You know that very well.--WEBDuB (talk) 17:22, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Regardless of whether there is paid editing happening or not, the fact that Maleschreiber and Crazydude1912 registered and started editing minutes apart is unsettling to say the least, and should be swiftly investigated. Amanuensis Balkanicus (talk) 19:01, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

You "investigated" it with a SPI report, and the conclusion of the admins there was that there is no connection between Maleschreiber and Crazydude1912. Ktrimi991 (talk) 19:12, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

The conclusion was that Crazydude1912 wasn't a sock of Maleschreiber (and vice versa). That doesn't rule out meatpuppetry and off-site coordination. For the record, I don't think there's any paid editing happening, but the WikiAcademy Kosovo connection is certainly interesting and I'm grateful to Anastan for bringing it up. Amanuensis Balkanicus (talk) 19:22, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

SPIs do not work that way. They do not deal with "pure" socking only, but with meatpuppetry and off-Wiki coordination too. Anastan was reported for socking a few years ago, and they got blocked for off-Wiki coordination. In another case, two accounts concerned with Skanderbeg were reported for socking, and got blocked for off-Wiki coordination. Hence, the result of the SPI report you filed was that Mal and CD1912 are unrelated. If you still do not understand it, you might ask the closing admin for further clarification. In any case, do not say again that Mal and CD1912 have off-Wiki connections without evidence at a SPI, as it all could go to AE for aspersions. Ktrimi991 (talk) 19:32, 6 September 2020 (UTC)