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Catholic Church in Poland is within the scope of WikiProject Catholicism, an attempt to better organize and improve the quality of information in articles related to the Catholic Church. For more information, visit the project page.CatholicismWikipedia:WikiProject CatholicismTemplate:WikiProject CatholicismCatholicism Start This article has been rated as Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Catholicism task list: edit history watch purge Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Article requests : see Draft articles Assess : see Category:Unassessed Catholicism articles; Category:Unknown-importance Catholicism articles Cleanup : Blessed Virgin Mary (see the talk page) Collaborate : Invitation template needed, see Category:WikiProject invitation templates Copyedit : Cuthbert Tunstall Expand : Angelus; Roman Catholicism in Kosovo; Bishop Adolph John Paschang; Cum sæpe accidere; Altar Society; American Board of Catholic Missions; Bernard Häring NPOV : Americanism (heresy); Ensoulment Photo : see Category:Misplaced Pages requested photographs of Catholicism Stubs : see Category:Stub-Class Catholicism articles; Category:Catholic Church stubs Update : Peer review; John Aloysius Maguire Verify : Archdiocese of Glasgow; Archbishop of Westminster; Bishop; Saint Mungo; Sanctification; Westminster Cathedral Other : Watch recent changes for Catholicism articles

Poland Start‑class High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Poland on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PolandWikipedia:WikiProject PolandTemplate:WikiProject PolandPoland Start This article has been rated as Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

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Something is wrong with the map: 15 is Torun, and 13 is Bydgoszcz bishoprick; and 15 should be colored in green, and 13 in violet.

Thanks for noticing the error. I've corrected it. – Kpalion (talk) 6 July 2005 22:26 (UTC)

Someone is wanting the article to refer to "the times of foreign oppression". I changed this to "the socialist period" to be more NPOV, but the user says the former phrase is necessary to encompass previous periods in Polish history. Well, I don't know what formula is best to use, but I do know that classifying the socialist period as a "time of foreign oppression" violates NPOV. If anyone can come up with a better way to characterize things, feel free. Everyking 19:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Latin

The Latin words are adjective forms, and not really direct translations of the names of the cities... AnonMoos (talk) 13:06, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Religion in Poland

CIA Fact book shows:

Roman Catholic 89.8% (about 75% practicing)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pl.html

--Krzyzowiec (talk) 01:35, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Fee for marriage?

Should we then add "in violation of canon law 848 which states that "The minister is to seek nothing for the administration of the sacraments beyond the offerings defined by competent authority, always taking care that the needy are not deprived of the assistance of the sacraments because of poverty." from http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2T.HTM. Student7 (talk) 20:16, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 2 October 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Procedural close per WP:MULTI. Follow-up instead at Talk:Roman Catholicism in Armenia#Requested move 2 October 2016. (non-admin closure) — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 00:37, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Roman Catholicism in Poland → Catholic Church in Poland – In consistancy with other equivalent articles, including Catholic Church, Catholic Church in England and Wales, Catholic Church in the United States, etc. Chicbyaccident (talk) 14:11, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

• Keep Why should this be different from the 163 other articles in the Category:Roman Catholic Church by country? Laurel Lodged (talk) 17:08, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Roman Catholicism in Armenia which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 00:46, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Catholic Church naming conventions RfC

There is currently an RfC at Misplaced Pages talk:Naming conventions (Catholic Church)#RfC: should this page be made a naming convention that may be of interest. Chicbyaccident (talk) 10:00, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Apostasy? Fake news.

I disbelieve the veracity of reports of an "apostasy procedure" being approved by the Polish Church, for two main reasons:

1. Per Omnium in mentem, canon law no longer recognizes "acts of formal defection" which is what this is by another name.
2. It would be a huge violation of canon law and the baptized person's rights to remove them or strike them from the baptismal register. Other bishops have been asked for this and rightly refused, because this is a legal record of a past event that happened, and cannot be stricken under any circumstance.

So I question the reliability of these sources that have been presented for this procedure. Elizium23 (talk) 22:20, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Not being being able to remove oneself from baptismal register is against the baptized person’s rights. Unfortunately it’s still the case in Poland, and many other countries. Calling the register a “legal record” is blatantly false; it’s similar to company’s databases, as opposed to legal records, which are, well, legal.

Still, that’s the official procedure for apostasy provided by the polish church. It does not result in removing oneself from church registers, though. Trasz (talk) 23:58, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Actually sacramental records are very truly legal records in every sense of the phrase. Can. 535 §1 In each parish there are to be parochial registers, that is, of baptisms, of marriages and of deaths, and any other registers prescribed by the Episcopal Conference or by the diocesan Bishop. The parish priest is to ensure that entries are accurately made and that the registers are carefully preserved. they are prescribed by law and kept according to law and it would be illegal to strike one's name from a baptismal register and I have never seen a civil law against this, but it would be safely ignored. It would be a violation of the baptized person's rights to be stricken from a register, and the Church (as of 2009) no longer recognizes any method for "formal defection" in her laws. Elizium23 (talk) 00:15, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

You have not proved this is a procedure provided "by the Polish Church" only by a (fake) news site and a highly motivated anti-Church "how-to" apostasy site. Elizium23 (talk) 00:16, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Legal records are things that are mandated by law, not by canon law. Your idea that somehow granting someone their rights would be a violation of their rights is obviously absurd, although I suspect I don't want to further discuss your rationale there.

The main problem here, though, is that you're somehow mistaking apostasy for striking someone from the register. Catholic Church does have the official procedure for apostasy, which is described in the article; it does not, however, result in removing anyone from the register, or even no longer counting them as Church's members. It's purely symbolic. Sources - including official Church publications - are easy to find, although I agree it would be useful to link them here. Trasz (talk) 00:39, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

According to what is written there now, it does involve that! Are you saying that you do not stand by what is written at this point in the article and it does not conform to what the Polish-language sources say? Elizium23 (talk) 01:21, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Elizium23 wrote: I disbelieve the veracity of reports of an "apostasy procedure" being approved by the Polish Church. Please check out the original uchwała nr 20/370/2015 of 7 October 2015 by the Episcopal Conference of Poland. Unfortunately, the pdf file is a scan - you will not be able to easily convert it to text and pass it through an automatic translator. Boud (talk) 02:44, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Elizium23 - the fact that the current Polish apostasy rules of the Catholic Church refuse to fully remove a former member's private data (such as a baptism record) from its database(s) is a violation of European privacy law - the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR). A possible result of the current revolutionary atmosphere could be that the Church loses political power and is forced to satisfy European privacy law, and to pay huge fines (up to 5% of its revenue) for violations of the GDPR. In any case, please read the uchwała (formal decision of an organised body) or find someone Polish-speaking who can translate it for you. Boud (talk) 03:02, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Boud, as the sources have been translated for me, this is an "act of formal defection" which the Episcopal Conference has made a concession for in their law. "Apostasy" is the name of a particular sin and crime that is excommunicable, but the act in question is not an act of apostasy, according to the reliable sources, it is an act of formal defection from the Church, which has precedent. Elizium23 (talk) 01:30, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

"Apostasy" and "formal defection" in this context are two words for the exact same thing.Trasz (talk) 01:37, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Let's see:

• Apostasy: the formal disaffiliation from, abandonment of, or renunciation of a religion by a person.
• wikt:apostasy: 2. Specifically, the renunciation of one's religion or faith.
• pl:Apostazja (Polish context): porzucenie wiary religijnej lub religii rejecting religious faith or religion ... Współcześnie apostazja rozumiana jest jako świadome, dobrowolne i publiczne wyrzeczenie się kontaktu z Kościołem. Currently apostasy is understood as the conscious, freely chosen, publicly cutting off contact with the Church.

None of these mention the internal concepts of sin within a religion; nothing about a crime in the ordinary sense of state systems of justice with laws, judicial institutions, police and prisons. The internal definitions within a particular religion do not override the widely accepted definitions. So I wouldn't say that apostasy and formal defection are exactly the same, but they're close enough. The term apostasy procedure seems enough for disambiguation - it's a formalisation of apostasy, which is the closest thing in Poland to forcing the Catholic Church to obey European privacy law and freedom-of-religion law. Boud (talk) 01:53, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Boud, "apostasy" to the Catholic Church is a sin, and a crime punishable by excommunication. "Formal defection" is a procedure as described in the Episcopal Conference source here. Elizium23 (talk) 20:12, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

I would be surprised if either the Catholic Church or Islamic imams or Jewish rabbis or Hindu priests got to override the generally accepted meanings of the word apostasy in the English language in en.Misplaced Pages. If you have a precise reference, it would seem justified to me to add a comment that the Catholic Church disagrees with the widespread usage of the word apostasy to refer to the apostasy procedure. In Poland apostazja is currently being very widely used - private info includes reports of whole families starting the procedure now and calling it ,,apostazja", so the usage in Polish appears to be similar to English. Boud (talk) 20:25, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Boud, it is not that the Catholic Church disagrees, it is just that the Catholic Church has precise terminology about these things and simply chooses to use her precise terminology while Europeans choose to colloquially use a term that has other connotations. It is largely about being sensationalistic that the media has taken the term "apostasy" and run with it. Nobody cares about being precise. Elizium23 (talk) 20:38, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

There's nothing imprecise in the term "apostasy"; the "formal defection" is just newspeak, and has no place outside of Church documents. Also, please note that your idea of "apostasy being a sin and a crime" is obviously false: after apostasy you're no longer a member of Catholic Church, thus no "sins" nor "excommunication" apply to you. Trasz (talk) 20:55, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Trasz, that shows how poorly you understand the process, because the person remains a member with a baptismal record; nobody can ever 'cease to be a member' of the Catholic Church, and sins apply to everyone, regardless of membership. A formally defected person could still be excommunicated. Elizium23 (talk) 21:08, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

This is obviously false - after apostasy you are no longer a member of the Church; it's what's guaranteed by law in every civilised country. The church obviously claims otherwise, but it's just a lie and really doesn't matter. You can get "excommunicated" afterwards, but you can equally be excommunicated by literally every single other Church you're not a member of, and it carries the same meaning: none. Trasz (talk) 21:18, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

@Trasz - if you remove this dispute tag again falsely claiming "issue resolved" while the matter has clearly not been resolved, or you call another editor's entry "vandalism," as you did here, I’ll report you myself. Just to give you a heads up. - GizzyCatBella🍁 21:50, 1 November 2020 (UTC)(Additional Note - Sorry, I have no opinion on the matter itself, just notice inappropriate behaviour of one of the involved here) - GizzyCatBella🍁 22:03, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

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