| Revision as of 23:16, 31 October 2020 editGerda Arendt (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, File movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers381,928 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit | Revision as of 09:40, 2 November 2020 edit undoClueBot III (talk | contribs)Bots1,379,848 editsm Archiving 2 discussions to User talk:ItsPugle/Archive 2. (BOT)Next edit → | ||
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| == PB as any kind of fascist is the minority POV == | |||
| {{atop | |||
| | status = Not here | |||
| | result = If you want to overturn a consensus, you need to get a new consensus on the article talk page, not my user talk page. <small>(])</small> ] <small>(please ] on reply)</small> 11:06, 10 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
| }} | |||
| Besides neo and proto largely being antonym prefixes displaying the level of credibility involved here. One of the RS academic sources was recently busted for race misappropriation being white and claiming to be black-that is hardly credible RS source especially on anything involving race. Another one is a hyper partisan zealot on par with Dinesh D Souza. One of the female ones(only pointing her gender out given the group is considered misogynistic) used some definition of fascism that captured Hitler, Pinochet and another historical fascist's regime social tenets but completely ignored the dictatorial control of governance-I did not bother looking at any of the rest. | |||
| Another one calls them crypto fascist-which may be the factually most accurate if one believes that they secretly desire dictatorial control or strong central governance. | |||
| It is currently in the lede despite the vast majority of RS not calling them any kind of fascist. | |||
| The lede should say verbatim what the SLPC calls them and most RS have subsequently labeled the group-a right wing extremist hate group or something along those lines. | |||
| Put the factually incorrect fascist claims in the body and maybe explain that they have been called XIZ type of fascists despite neo and proto largely being antonyms. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 17:40, 6 October 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :I'm afraid the very very very significant majority of sources disagree with your personal opinion about the reliability of sources and the designation of the Proud Boys as a neo-fascist group. "One of the RS academic sources" is not significant; there are about 15 different sources on the talk page that support the claim, one unrelated incident from an academic (which you've provided no evidence that such happened). Beyond that, trying to interpret sources is nothing more than ] that is detrimental to the quality of Misplaced Pages. Also, the vast majority of sources support using that term: can you provide any sources to the contrary? ] <small>(please ] on reply)</small> 01:17, 7 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
| Don't be sorry! Most of the RS sources do not call them any kind of fascist. Not close, one has to look long and hard to find that label. Search the name, read the first 100 hits and of those how many lead off with it. If you'd like to save time the answer is very few. The notable experts do not use that label. As far as the words themselves, that is academic press, anyone can write anything that they want and publish on those mediums. Included are genocide deniers, anti vaxxers etc... | |||
| they are not peer reviewed, they are subject to almost zero oversight and have no academic standing. If you asked 100 history professors to define neo-fascism, 99 would give a blank stare and the 100th would say you must be from wikipedia. | |||
| It should be a red flag when they do not link to a notable think tank, government or prominent academic institution or department on the subject. Is it the opinion that the ADL and SLPC who throw around the words fascist, white supremacist and racist like balls just forgot to use them this time? No one tried to interpret sources without actually reading them first other than it looks like the guy who posted them in the first place. Hosang is posted, I skimmed through that and saw approaches fascism. Unf I do not have time to read through all of the subsequent posts since my last on the notice board. The bottom line is this, although Masem and the other editor are absolutely correct in their idyllic approach, notability trumps that in the cases of these hate groups. However, the IP editor continuing to insist that the opening paragraph be more than the ADL or SLPC is going too far the other way. For future reference, if I have time to read through these nonsense sources, their lack of notability for the subject matter and their use of words of no academic standing, come on-you can spend 15secs searching a name-https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/education-lab/article245836520.html. Lastly, lay off the detrimental to WP stuff. What is really detrimental to WP is seeking to end good faith discourse with phrases like this is detrimental to WP.] (]) 07:33, 10 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
| :The ] is upon you to provide evidence against the status quo, and against the existing consensus. Not only that, but my talk page is not a place for you to try and overturn consensus - you need to be having this discussion on the article's talk page and gain consensus. Also, trying to suggest that any academic source has no value because "included are genocide deniers, anti vaxxers etc" is the most absurd thing, especially considering when the basic criteria for admission into journals generally include peer review. And I think you'll see . And you do see the absurd irony in saying that I should "lay off the detrimental to WP stuff" then for you do say "what is really detrimental to WP", right? ] <small>(please ] on reply)</small> 11:05, 10 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
| {{abot}} | |||
| == Source == | |||
| Hi | |||
| ? He will president only for 90 days. Also, he is still PM. --] (]) 12:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
| :{{reply|Panam2014}} Sorry, you're right, he is still prime minister - I will update the article with that. And on being president, says: {{Quote|"On Friday, lawmakers said he would lead the country until presidential elections next year, while remaining prime minister."}} No where does it say 90 days. ] <small>(please ] on reply)</small> 12:14, 18 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
| : --] (]) 12:17, 18 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{reply|Panam2014}} Not only does that source say nothing about 90 days, but ] on Misplaced Pages as it is an unreliable source. ] <small>(please ] on reply)</small> 12:20, 18 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
| ::: --] (]) 12:22, 18 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
| ::::{{reply|Panam2014}} Again, that says nothing about 90 days. Also, it says "may" - nothing more than speculation. ] <small>(please ] on reply)</small> 12:25, 18 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
| [https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Kyrgyz_Republic_2010.pdf?lang=en "In case of early termination of powers by the President on the grounds | |||
| envisaged in the present Constitution, his/her powers shall be exercised by the | |||
| Toraga of the Jogorku Kenesh until new President is elected. In case of | |||
| inability of the Toraga to exercise the powers of the President, then such powers | |||
| shall be exercised by the Prime minister. | |||
| Early presidential elections are conducted within three months period since the | |||
| termination of powers of the President. | |||
| 2. Officials exercising the powers of the President shall not have the right to call | |||
| early elections of the Jogorku Kenesh or dismiss the Government."] --] (]) 12:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
| :{{reply|Panam2014}} a) That's ], and b) the election date hasn't been set - the election could quite literally be in a week, so until we know when it's set for sure (especially considering the country is going through affectively a constitutional crisis), he is the president. Anyways, the duration of his presidency does not change the fact that he is occupying the office of the president. ] <small>(please ] on reply)</small> 12:38, 18 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
| "Officials exercising the powers of the President" so he is not president. --] (]) 12:39, 18 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
| : --] (]) 12:42, 18 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{reply|Panam2014}} Thank you! That is the first valid piece of evidence you've provided. Unfortunately, the ''Guardian'' article is more reliable than ], a state-sponsored news agency that has no transparency in terms of its fact-checking etc. I'll do some more research tomorrow, but as far as I can see, everything points to Japarov becoming the outright president after confirmation from parliament - before that, he ''was'' the acting president. It's also happened rather quickly, so pretty much all of the sources seem to be from before the parliamentary confirmation. ] <small>(please ] on reply)</small> 12:57, 18 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
| :::Okay, I haven't found any compelling evidence. As I mentioned, the haste in which everything has occurred means that several news sources are delayed or haven't reported since the confirmation. I'll keep an eye out for how ongoing media reports it, but I think the status quo is the best for now. One thing to consider is that the country is kind of in crisis, so constitutional procedure may not be possible or reasonable - we should follow reports of what has happened, not what ''might'' happen. ] <small>(please ] on reply)</small> 05:11, 19 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
| == 2020 New Zealand election == | == 2020 New Zealand election == | ||
Revision as of 09:40, 2 November 2020
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2020 New Zealand election
I have added relevant written sources ie. Newspaper articles from NZ Herald and The Guardian to support the relevant statements, on top of the official data provided. 2002 was Nationals worst ever year, and 2020 was the worst since 2002. Leesjy2k (talk) 08:52, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
I have added numerous other sources to validate what I have just written. Blocking me from editing articles of Misplaced Pages, is excessive given the written and official sources I have cited. Leesjy2k (talk) 09:28, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Leesjy2k: I've replied to you on your talk page. You need to have a good read and think about WP:OR - disruptively refusing to accept policy is sanctionable, primarily to protect the integrity of the project. ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 11:33, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
October harvest
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treats --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:16, 31 October 2020 (UTC)