Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 09:08, 24 November 2020

• WP:TEA
• WP:TH

Shantavira, a Teahouse host

• To read the newest questions, skip to bottom
• About the Teahouse

Most recent archives
1227, 1228, 1229, 1230, 1231, 1232, 1233, 1234, 1235, 1236, 1237, 1238, 1239, 1240, 1241, 1242, 1243, 1244, 1245, 1246

Publishing this draft

Hi! After working with Draft:Matthew Kulke quite a bit, I feel as its time to make it an official article. My question is, how exactly would I do this? I saw that theres a button for sandboxes, but otherwise it was very confusing to figure out.

If someone could help me with this, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! SnazzyInfinity (talk • contribs) 21:09, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

@SnazzyInfinity: You could submit it, but it's likely it might be rejected again since there aren't enough sources yet to demonstrate notability. You should try to cite Kulke's research, which is a large part of the article. Search for his published work on Google scholar. Check out this article I created two months ago Scott Halstead. You can see that the sourcing is more extensive. Read this Misplaced Pages:Articles for creation, and then the "submitting for review" section when you think it's ready. TimTempleton 21:37, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks I'll do that right now SnazzyInfinity (talk • contribs) 21:39, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Now how exactly would I reference these? Right away just searching his name comes up with quite a few, and some relevant results. Which template (I'm using WP:ProveIt)/ how would I reference these? SnazzyInfinity (talk • contribs) 21:44, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

@SnazzyInfinity: Either Template:Cite web or Template:Cite journal should work, depending on how much time you want to spend filling out the citations. Cite journal takes a bit longer since there are more fields. If the actual journal content is available online, I use cite web to speed things up. If not, then I use cite journal. With cite journal you have a page number parameter, which you don't need with cite web if you link to the actual page using html. Hope this helps. TimTempleton 23:40, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

It does thanks, I'll try to work on that this afternoon. SnazzyInfinity (talk • contribs) 15:00, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

SnazzyInfinity: I fixed up the draft a bit and moved it to mainspace. The subject was obviously notable per WP:PROF#C5 as the holder of a named chair at Boston University. Note that as an WP:AUTOCONFIRMED user, you don't need to submit a draft for review and you don't need to use the AfC process (unless you want to). When you feel that a draft is ready, you can move it to mainspace via a pagemove yourself using the 'move' button at the top of the page. Nsk92 (talk) 01:33, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Nsk92 Thanks for doing that, and thanks for letting me know. SnazzyInfinity (talk • contribs) 14:52, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Cuckoo editing

Is there a name for this sort of editing? I've just reverted one instance of it, and called it 'cuckooing', which I'm obviously hoping will take off as a cool new term and go viral. :) The thing works like this - there's an existing statement in an article, appropriately referenced:

"The Moon is the Earth's only natural satellite."(ref)

Then someone inserts a bit more:

"The Moon is the Earth's only natural satellite. It is entirely made of cheese."(ref)

Now it looks as if the source supports the added statement instead of, or at best in addition to, the original one. And while moon/cheese is obviously false to most readers (one would hope), less obvious errors could go undetected.

Perhaps there's an essay or even a policy on this that someone could point me towards for more info? Thanks, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:09, 20 November 2020 (UTC) DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:09, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

DoubleGrazing Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Any attempt to deface an article is considered vandalism. It can often be very subtle. You can read more about vandalism at this page. 331dot (talk) 11:16, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I sometimes come across this. I assume that the cuckoo is just adding the content that she wants, and is unaware of the reference and its relevance. I generally remove such additions using an edit summary like "rm statement unsupported by source cited". Maproom (talk) 11:19, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

But The Moon is made of green cheese is a well referenced article.--Shantavira| 11:21, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

@Shantavira: This is true. Badly chosen example on my part, should have picked something more controversial. :) Cheers, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:56, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

I understand the intent of your proposed term as the placement of a factual statement in text supported by a reference even though the new fact is not supported by that reference, as akin to a cuckoo bird laying an egg in the nest of a bird of a different species. The effort is more likely to be an edit made in good faith versus intentional vandalism. Thus, Maproom's edit summary applies. A conscientious editor might even leave a note on the offending editor's talk page. David notMD (talk) 11:46, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Is that good faith, or "good faith" or "good" "faith". I think it differs depending on the type of topic being covered.

Seperately the use of in-line citation doesn't mean any of the prior content is even referenced. Over time citations moved, in which case it becomes less cuckoo and more paper wasp. Koncorde (talk) 11:55, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

This exact kind of thing is covered in WP:INTEGRITY. Leaving a link to that in your edit summary is pretty much self-explanatory. -- Marchjuly (talk) 14:02, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

@DoubleGrazing: I do rather like your WP:NEOLOGISM as it neatly explains the issues. I might even use it from time to time! Cuckoos, of course, lay their eggs in good faith, and the parent accommodates the young chick equally calmly. Some editors do try to insert text maliciously before citations, but most seem to me to want to correct the wording of a quotation, or add some additional, relevant facts, which may well be quite correct, but which aren't in the source. They can be hard to spot; I found one like that yesterday. Nick Moyes (talk) 16:43, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

User:Nick Moyes - Maybe you have a peculiar definition of good faith if it encompasses the nesting behavior of European cuckoos. Many species of birds have better family values than cuckoos. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:00, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon: Yes, I think my definition of 'good faith' must certainly be different from yours. I take a biologist's perspective, in that no creature, be it a parasitic plant, a coronavirus, a lion, shark, tapeworm or cuckoo is acting in anything other than good faith when it instinctively follows the natural lifecycle that it has evolved over millions of years to follow. For me, 'bad faith' involves some degree of malicious intent to cause harm or damage to another creature outside of its integral need for survival and food. For example, when I watch one of the peregrine falcons that I have helped to conserve catch a live bird and bring it back to its perch, and then start plucking it alive in front of one of my cameras, before snipping though its neck bone with its specially modified bill, I see no maliciousness or bad faith in those actions whatsoever- it is simply nature red in tooth and claw - quite literally. We should never put our comfortable family values on the rest of nature and condemn individual species for existing or for acting in bad faith. That goes for wasps, too! Nick Moyes (talk) 15:51, 22 November 2020 (UTC) 

@Nick Moyes: You may be overly generous toward the cuckoos, perhaps they're not as innocent as you think. (In which case, great PR on their side!) But be that as it may, please do use the term wherever you can — you get loyalty points, you know? ;) Cheers, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 19:49, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

@DoubleGrazing:, I'm not quite sure I understand this, are you saying someone adds information that is true but unsupported by the reference? SnazzyInfinity (talk • contribs) 16:56, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

@SnazzyInfinity: I'm not necessarily saying one thing or the other, sometimes it may be done with an ulterior motive, sometimes inadvertently. My point is, it's difficult to detect, unless you happen to catch it in the act. A few edits later, it will have been buried in the sands of edit history. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 20:04, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

@DoubleGrazing: I think you'll have to work up an essay on this subject, with a few nice examples. I'd happily link to it from WP:CUCKOO, if it's a good one! Of course the real cuckoo is innocent. It's just Nature at work! See here. Nick Moyes (talk) 20:45, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Hey @Nick Moyes: — essay created, my first one! :) Please take a look when you have a mo. Can I make the WP:CUCKOO shortcut myself, or is that something only an admin can do (and if so, would you, please?) Thanks & Regards, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 13:58, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for this, DoubleGrazing. I often encounter this and it's good to be able to put a name to it. Would it be appropriate to move the essay to Misplaced Pages:Cuckoo editing, or do you want to keep it in your userspace? Cordless Larry (talk) 20:49, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Oh, please @Cordless Larry: absolutely — feel free to move it wherever you think it ought to go; I didn't want to make any presumptions, so just put it in my own user space for now. Very interesting to hear it resonated with you, I guess I wasn't just imagining it, then... Thanks,-- DoubleGrazing (talk) 22:06, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Done - and shortcut created from WP:CUCKOO. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:34, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

@Cordless Larry: that's so cool, many thanks! :) -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:21, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

how to add a gap above first line of a Teahouse reply

a small gap above first line of a Teahouse reply is added automatically when a user template follows an indentation. is there any way to add this gap when starting a reply with just an indentation, and no user template ? (Example with no gaps above replies)  Gfigs (talk) 14:27, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

When I put this reply, I can still see a smal gap above it. Possibly the no-gap issue is related to your browser...? --CiaPan (talk) 15:21, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Adding a ping to User:Gfigs. --CiaPan (talk) 15:21, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

CiaPan ,that would not be good..as you can see, no gap above this reply either Gfigs (talk) 16:15, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Gfigs, welcome to the Teahouse. Perhaps you could take a screenshot and annotate what you're seeing/what you want to accomplish, and post it as an imgur link? It may turn out to be a browser-related issue as CiaPan points out above, or there may be some simple syntax that we can recommend. CThomas (talk) 19:17, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Gfigs, you can insert a larger than normal gap by inserting one (or more) empty line, like I did above this reply. —teb728 t c 19:28, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Cthomas3 ,as newby, will look into doing that..teb728 ,that clearly did not do it. CiaPan ,am trying to accomplish the gap you mentioned in your post..Gfigs (talk) 00:40, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Gfigs, how about this reply with an html br tag? —teb728 t c 09:49, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Gfigs, to create a blank linespace, simply double-click the "Enter" bar on your keyboard. Softlavender (talk) 10:39, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

br tags and newlines won't do it Gfigs (talk) 16:23, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Gfigs, to make a blank line, double-click your "Enter" bar to create double-spacing (also known as paragraph spacing). See Help:Wikitext#Line breaks. Softlavender (talk) 22:22, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Softlavender ,ok

will try this.. Gfigs (talk) 05:31, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Articles for assesment

This might be a dum dum question but when do we submit a article for assessment. What I'm asking is, is assessing articles a big deal and should we only submit them when we add a lot of content and are going for a high quality rating. Or can we send articles for assessment after we, for instance, add a bunch of citations to it? JMLCarvalho (talk) 13:36, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi JMLCarvalho. Am I correct is assuming this is about Sri Lanka Police? There are many things on Misplaced Pages that people might refer to as forms of "assessment", such as peer review; submission for good article status; featured article status, etc. The one process that actually uses that word though is Misplaced Pages:Content assessment. (Here, the more specific process would be through Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Sri Lanka/Assessment). If that's what you're talking about—you think it might deserve something other than start class—you can post at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Sri Lanka/Assessment#Requesting an assessment. But (to answer part of your specific question, if I've honed in on the right type of assessment) such assessments are really "not a big deal". They're mostly just for internal Misplaced Pages Wikiproject maintenance. One other possibility: maybe you're thinking that in light of your addition of citations (thank you!; very important work), the posting of the {{more citations needed}} template should be re-assessed? If so, the article has a large amount of uncited material, so that template still belongs. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 14:48, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi Fuhghettaboutit, thank you so much for the in depth answer you provided, yes I was talking about content assessment, and was thinking it deserves more than start class. Thanks for clarifying because now I can request and assessment without fear I'm wasting someones time. Again thank you for your in depth answer.JMLCarvalho (talk) 12:56, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Reliable Published Source from Cornell University Being Dismissed

On the Charles V. Paterno Misplaced Pages page, I'm aiming to correct that Dr. Paterno graduated as a Doctor of Medicine (MD) from Cornell University on 7 June 1899 for which I supplied a citation which is a publication from Cornell University. There is no evidence that 1. there was a school of dentistry at Cornell at that time, 2. that Dr. Paterno was trained as a dentist, or that 3. Dr. Paterno ever practiced dentistry or any other medicine. Another user would like to include on the Misplaced Pages page that Dr. Paterno never practiced medicine (which is true) but did practice dentistry. There is no evidence or citation to support this claim. This user is telling me that my source from Cornell University is not reliable/permitted. Additionally this user provides no citation for Dr. Paterno practicing dentistry. I would appreciate help in understanding how the citation I provided from Cornell is not reliable/permitted but that the other user's lack of citation for dentistry is reliable/permitted.

Misplaced Pages page: https://en.wikipedia.org/Charles_V._Paterno Cornell University citation: https://ecommons.cornell.edu/handle/1813/22336 (Charles Vito Paterno appears as Doctor of Medicine graduate on PDF document page 445) Carlagolden23 (talk) 15:35, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi Carlagolden23. I don't get it. The user who reverted you twice, has said each time that the detail about the article subject being a dentist is "sourced", but the citation immediately following this fact doesn't even look like it's being used to source that fact; and in any event, the source cited does not say anything about dentistry (it's also a blog, i.e., far from a sterling source, but since it fails verification as to the dentistry occupation, that's beside the point). Furthermore, the user has said you're engaging in original research by removing this unsourced fact. That's the exact opposite of what you appear to be doing—keeping in an unsourced fact is original research.

Overall, then, unless I'm really missing something, your edit looks absolutely proper and is one that is un-revertable within policy. That is, once a fact is questioned (as you have) and removed, a user MUST provide a reliable source, using an inline citation that directly verifies the material, or the fact cannot be returned (as it was). See the subsection of the verifiability policy at the shortcut, WP:BURDEN. The user is highly experienced, so I suspect this may be just a "d'oh" moment — legitimately but erroneously believing the dentistry detail is actually sourced where it is not. Anyway, he or she has been pinged to this post by my linking of his or her username. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 16:22, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hello, Carlagolden23, and welcome to the Teahouse. I can see that you are frustrated, but what you are doing is Edit warring, which is not allowed, irrespective of who is right or wrong. When somebody reverts your edit, what you should do is not to reapply it, but to open a discussion on the article's talk page about it: see BRD. It looks to me as if you are right: despite what Beyond My Ken said in an edit summary, I cannot see that the statement about practising as a dentist is sourced, and you were justified in removing it. However, though your citation is welcome (and would be even better with a page number in the citation) it is not germane to this argument, and that is what Beyond My Ken was saying: your citation proves that he took an MD (which was already in the article, but not cited); but it does not say anything about whether he did or did not practise as a dentist. Your argument that he did not, based on your citation, was what Beyond My Ken described as original research - that editor did not say anything about the source being unreliable, just that it was silent on this particular question.

So, in summary, I think you were right to remove the claim, but when Beyond My Ken reinserted it, the proper course was to ask them, on the article's talk page, where this claim was cited. --ColinFine (talk) 16:32, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

I suppose you could technically describe this as a start toward "edit warring", even though the reverts were patently outside of policy, and a little BRD would have been obviously better but, let's be clear here: the above inexperienced user solely added a citation for preexisting, unsourced material and removed an unsourced claim, explaining in the edit summary why it was challenged. There is nothing there that could ever be described as original research – only the return of the unsourced content could possibly be so-described; the reverts were blatantly against bedrock policy; neither user ever reached a third revert, though the experienced user warned the user on their talk page with an edit warring template that cited policies they were themselves violating far more than the user warned, who at the same time also didn't open up a talk page discussion, and then the inexperienced user came here to ask about the issue. Seems pretty one-sided to me.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 17:22, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Carlagolden23 - In reviewing the sources cited in Charles V. Paterno, I do not find any that say he was a dentist, however, I know that I read that in some source or another, perhaps one that's no longer used in the article. So, I was mistaken in telling you a number of times that the information was sourced, and wrong in that I should have checked the refs instead of relying on my memory. I'm sorry to have caused you a problem, but it's good that you persevered and the record has been corrected. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:10, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Beyond My Ken, very nice. :) —valereee (talk) 11:28, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

How to publish an article which became a draft?

I recently wrote a new article with proper sources and I published it. But it seems like it came into a state which is known as "draft". This the link to this specific draft page. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Dhanith_Sri ) I'm still new here, and I'm not sure what should I do now.. Did I do something wrong? Navintc (talk) 16:43, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Navintc Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. I have added the appropriate information to the draft to allow you to submit it for review. Unless you are very experienced with article creation, that's the best way to create one.

"Publish changes" should be understood to mean simply "save changes", it does not mean "publish this to the encyclopedia". 331dot (talk) 16:47, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi Navintc. The draft was not accepted because despite what you say about having created it "with proper sources", I would estimate it has not a single one that would meet that description. Sorry. That's also the reason for the decline, posted at the top of the draft. I recommend reading Misplaced Pages:Common sourcing mistakes (notability) – exploring the various links provided there. It may be that an acceptable article can be created, but that depends on rewriting the content by using the right types of sources. Unfortunately, if those sources don't actually exist, no acceptable article is possible. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 17:40, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Fuhghettaboutit I don't see that this draft was submitted, nor declined. Am I missing something?

Cool. Fuhghettaboutit I think this happened due to the referenced sources from youtube. 331dot I guess your magic done its trick and now the page shows a button to "submit the draft for review". Thanks A bunch guys! I removed the youtube links and submitted it for review.! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Navintc (talk • contribs) 18:48, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

And now - Draft:Dhanith_Sri submitted. Declined. Resubmitted without having made any changes. Rejected. David notMD (talk) 23:39, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

I removed the youtube links, but still, the article still got rejected. I believe the artist is not popular enough to be inserted in to wikipedia.. 331dot (talk)

It seems likely that non-English news sources covering this artist exist, particularly in Sinhala, e.g. based on this . I must admit I have no idea how to do Google Searches in Sinhala or how to transliterate the artist's name there. Nsk92 (talk) 17:23, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Peer review needs reviewers!

Misplaced Pages ads	file info – #14

Hi all, if you're interested in monitoring this page, you're probably interested in helping and mentoring new and up and coming editors. We have a backlog of reviews at peer review that would benefit from YOU! In case you don't know, anyone can put an article up for peer review; so editors seeking review are often seeking help or ways to improve, and in my experience usually find the reviews extremely useful. Peer review is, also, often a stepping stone for more active editors and for a good article or featured review nomination.

Please have a look and respond to one or two of the unanswered reviews. Many thanks!

The list is here: WP:PRWAITING Tom (LT) (talk) 22:47, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Is "peer review" different from "new pages patrol"? Which is the one with the backlog frequently mentioned on this page? Maproom (talk) 10:37, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

In addition to Peer review, New pages patrol and the huge backlog at Articles for Creation reviews (a frequent Teahouse mention), there are also thousands (?) of requests backlogged at Misplaced Pages:Requested articles, hundreds at Good Article nominations and dozens at Featured Article nominations. Kudos to all of the editors who try to keep up with these Sisyphean tasks. David notMD (talk) 10:55, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages controversial topics

Hi, I am curious about how Misplaced Pages adds articles to this maintenance list? https://en.wikipedia.org/Category:Wikipedia_controversial_topics Do users just add the topics when they notice that the topic is controversial? Or, does Misplaced Pages quantify the amount of disputes/edit wars and decide to add the topics to the list? Rohan608 (talk) 04:38, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Forget that category and just steer clear of anything tied to anything on this list. Controversial topics almost always end up having an Arbitration case or GS request made to kerb behavioural issues in the topic area. —A little blue Bori v^_^v 04:51, 22 November 2020 (UTC)(amended 04:52, 22 November 2020 (UTC))

I appreciate your response with advice to stay away from these articles. I also would appreciate if any editor could speak to how the articles are added to the list re: my original question. Thanks. Rohan608 (talk) 00:19, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Edit-a-thon articles

Hello! We recently had a Shakespeare edit-a-thon in Hungary, where we also created English articles. I would like to ask your kind help in the final process, namely polishing them a bit and renaming them.

• User:Rába Tímea/sandbox
• User:Zineb Laadioui/sandbox should merged into Nabyl Lahlou, so adn admin is needed
• User:Gulzira Bolotova/sandbox
• User:AnastasiaHighFive/sandbox
• User:Haydar Salman/sandbox
• User:Evgeniia Artemenko/sandbox

I hope that you can help us in this matter, and you will find the articles suitable as well. Thanks in advance! Bencemac (talk) 08:33, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

For those who might pursue this, the AHF and EA drafts are each about a poem about Shakespeare, written by a famous author. The GB and HS drafts are each about a production of a Shakespeare play. The RT draft is about a annual Shakespeare festival. David notMD (talk) 10:30, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

I have done a small bit – ran each of them through a peer reviewer script that fixes MoS issues (and manually replaced non-standard quote marks).--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:11, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

I am not impressed by the idea of having articles about theater productions of one of Shakespeare' plays (the AHF and HS drafts). David notMD (talk) 16:17, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Could you please advice what else I can do to help you with the process? Regards, Bencemac (talk) 07:42, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Financial stability

Yesterday, I saw Misplaced Pages was asking for donations. I want to know is Misplaced Pages doing fine financially? Do the administrators need any assistance? 47.150.227.254 (talk) 09:50, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Donations go to Wikimedia, the organisation behind all the different Misplaced Pages versions, Commons, etc. Administrators are volunteers, like the rest of us. Donations don't benefit English Misplaced Pages specifically, and they do not go to any individual admins or other editors. --bonadea contributions talk 09:53, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

If you read Wikimedia Foundation you will see that it has "annual revenues in excess of US$109.9 million".--Shantavira| 10:38, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

How do I submit an article to wikipedia

I have created a programming language and I want it's page to be on wikipedia. It's name is Plutonium.I have created a draft:Plutonium Programming Language. How do I submit it? Shehryar514 (talk) 10:46, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Welcome to The Teahouse, please be aware that writing a new article is difficult, and start by reading your first article. Notability of a topic is judged by looking at the depth of coverage in independent, reliable, secondary sources.

Novice editors are commonly advised to cite at least three independent, reliable, secondary sources containing significant coverage. Your draft Draft:Plutonium Programming Language has no such sources and would be rejected if submitted I’m afraid. Theroadislong (talk) 11:12, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

• Convenience link: Draft:Plutonium Programming Language —valereee (talk) 11:16, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, edit conflict. —valereee (talk) 11:18, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

If you have just created it Shehryar514}, it's probably too soon. A lot of people have the idea that Misplaced Pages is a place to tell the world about something: it isn't. It is a place that summarises what the world has already said about something. Until the world (read "independent commentators published in reliable sources") has talked about a subject, Misplaced Pages isn't interested in it. --ColinFine (talk) 13:49, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Concern

I have a concern about the user Hatchens who is misusing the AFC power. He keeps on declining Draft:MyGate while giving baseless reasons. He himself is an AfC reviewer but seeks help from other editors in order to find out whether subject is notable or not. My concern is

Why is he jumping into something which he has no knowledge of or unsure about notability of a specific topic.

Not once, he declined the above draft twice giving same reasons 1) being promotional 2) sources don't show notability.

On one hand, he's unsure about notability of this subject; on the other hand, he even declined it twice even though the draft was not at all promotional and had over seventeen sources which were more than enough to justify notability of this subject. When I first reached out to him asking for an explanation. He advises me to expand the page and add more citations from reliable sources in order for him to find out whether or not the topic is notable.

It was not even a stub article and as mentioned, had more than seventeen sources, each covering the topic in detail. I followed what he said but he refused to review the draft again stating would leave it to another reviewer. And after certain days what I see is the same user declines the page again for same reasons. The 2nd draft was not promotional either and had enough sources. He also added a paid editing template while I had disclosed the coi way befor and the tag was not needed. When I asked as to why he reviewed the page again when he had clearly refused to look at it again. He did not answer any of the questions I asked and pinged another editor, who was a more senior editor and seemed to have a great deal of experience, to help him identify if the topic was notable and the editor replied stating "from what I've just read about the Mygate app it certainly meets WP:SIGCOV. The article seems reasonably well written now and has enough citations in my opinion."

He is trying to cover his mistakes by putting false allegations on me and harrasing me. Just look at his comments across the Draft:MyGate, he is treating it like a talk page. I will really appreciate it if anyone helps me out with this. Thanks. Loveneeth (talk) 12:03, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Loveneeth, I'm afraid I will have to disagree with you here. You have been hired to create an article about this company (as declared on your user page), and Hatchens has really gone above and beyond what is asked of a volunteer editor to help you out. It looks like you have moved the draft into article space at least twice, maybe more, and it is good that you have stopped doing that, but you also need to stop arguing on other editors' user talk pages; a few days ago you complained that Hatchens reviewed the draft, and now you seem to complain about the fact that they leave the draft for somebody else to review. The comments that Hatchens has left at Draft:MyGate are more than reasonable; I don't see that the company obviously meets the notability criteria, and many of the references are simply re-hashed press releases, but in any case this is for the AfC reviewer(s) to determine, not for the company itself or their representatives. The deletion history of MyGate speaks for itself – this is a company that seems somewhat desperate to have a Misplaced Pages article (and it is interesting to note that when you look for sources, secondary sources such as this are prominent, but the draft doesn't mention a single word about that criticism. In other words, it is certainly promotional still.)

At this point, you have resubmitted the draft yet again, and you'll need to wait the days or weeks or months it will take for another volunteer reviewer to go through it. Keep in mind that an article that has been accepted through AfC can still be deleted later; AfC review is a way to check that it is more likely than not that an article would be kept in a deletion discussion, but it is not a guarantee of that. --bonadea contributions talk 12:35, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Hi Loveneeth. While it can be frustrating to have a draft declined even once, please try assume WP:AGF and don’t immediately jump to the conclusion that Hatchens or any other AFC reviewer is misusing some kind of power. AFC reviewers are just like any other editor in that they’re WP:VOLUNTEERs just trying to help out and be WP:HERE. You yourself are asking the community to AGF that you’re HERE after all by doing your best to comply with relevant Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines even though you’re a WP:COI/WP:PAID editor and many members are quite wary of and have serious concerns about such editors. The draft was last declined in November 9 and it’s currently waiting for an another review. Perhaps the third time will be the charm, but please be patient and see what happens. If you want some more specific feedback on the draft, maybe try WP:AFCHELP. There are also quite a few Teahouse host who also help out at AFC. Either way, there are really not a lot of WP:DEADLINES when it comes to Misplaced Pages; so, once again please try and be a little more patient and see how the third review plays out. — Marchjuly (talk) 12:47, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

I actually suspect this draft could just about prove notability, but it would need to include the sources both on the privacy issues and on the legal wrangling (that is, they and a competitor are suing each other for IP and data theft). The accusations made are not warranted Nosebagbear (talk) 12:48, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Loveneeth, thank you for disclosing your paid contributor status on your user. You'll need to disclose it also on the article talk.

To make this easy for us, would you please provide here the three sources and only three which represent the most reliable significant independent coverage? —valereee (talk) 12:52, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Make that "the most reliable significant independent coverage." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:57, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, GGS. Loveneeth, I've removed some puffery and started sections about the privacy/data misuse concerns and the lawsuits. I'd suggest filling those sections in with neutral information. —valereee (talk) 13:16, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

and I have accepted the draft as it would likely survive an afd. Theroadislong (talk) 13:20, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Courtesty pinging @Hatchens: — Yours, Berrely • ∕_Contribs 13:34, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Dear Berrely, Thank you for the ping. Sorry, I was not aware about this discussion. Since, Theroadislong and Valereee have taken a call on MyGate. Then, we all should abide by their decision. Thanks to Bonadea for accepting and justifying my "logic of denial" at the first place. And, also thanks to Marchjuly for much required hand-holding. -Hatchens (talk) 13:47, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Hatchens, sorry, the initial post was so long I didn't notice you hadn't been pinged. You did fine, the article was heavily promotional and one-sided and created by a paid editor. I'd have been pretty leery too. :) —valereee (talk) 13:53, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Valereee, no problemo at all. It happens. Thank you for appreciating my approach (of due diligence). Nowadays, it's getting tougher to keep Misplaced Pages clean - so count me in, if you need any helping hand. - Hatchens (talk) 14:00, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

I strongly recommend AfD. The first sentence of the article "MyGate is a security and community management app." Nowhere in the rest of the article is there any description of what MyGate does, or where it does it, or how it does it. Everything is about securing financing, I am guessing based on press releases as references. David notMD (talk) 16:27, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree with David notMD. It's a crappy article, saying very little about what the company actually does, and sourced to news items based on press releases and interviews. Maproom (talk) 09:16, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Use of page numbers in a Misplaced Pages article

Page numbering in an article?

My question regards citations in a Misplaced Pages article I am co-authoring, still to be reviewed before publication, as to whether I should include page numbers in books, magazines, or journals I am quoting or referring to in my citations...is it helpful to include these? and briefly, how to do it? Noel A. Sherry (talk) 14:34, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Noel A. Sherry, it is helpful to editors if you include the page number, as it helps editors verify content. Most citation templates (such as {{cite book}}) support page numbers with the |page= parameter. — Yours, Berrely • ∕_Contribs 14:38, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi Noel A. Sherry. Not only should you, but often it is the single mot important item of data in a citation. The chief purpose of citations is to allow the reader to find the source, and then check themselves for reliability and that it actually verifies the content it is cited to corroborate. People usually provide enough attribution to identify what the source is, but if what's cited has more than one page, without a page number it becomes very difficult to associate what part of the whole actually verifies the information. See Misplaced Pages:Citing sources#What information to include generally, and Misplaced Pages:Citing sources#Identifying parts of a source (WP:PAGENUM) specifically. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:29, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

I want to add about myself

I am not a famous celebrity but not a common man, having photography skills and modelling phsique, how can i add this Thenameisaayushjain (talk) 15:31, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Thenameisaayushjain , the short answer is you can't. Misplaced Pages isn't a webhost; we only repeat what reliable sources have already said about each subject. If nobody has written about a subject, then we don't include it. ‑ Iridescent 15:46, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

I would like to add that while above said is true and you cannot create an article about yourself, you still can put some information for others to see, but elsewhere: On your userpage! Please check this link Misplaced Pages:User pages for some guidelines because not everything is allowed. The downside is ofc that most people will not see that, as your userspace is mostly meant for communication with other Wikipedians. But it's better than nothing (and better than creating an undue article about yourself), and it can be quite fun with WP:userboxes. You could e.g. state here that you have awesome photography skills, and maybe if you are willing to help Misplaced Pages with them someone could contact you and ask for a photo of a landmark or sth. I have no reason to brag with it, but you can check out my userpage if you want to get an idea (I admit there are more creative ones out there ^^). Just click your currently red username (Thenameisaayushjain) to create your userpage. --LordPeterII (talk) 22:49, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Thenameisaayushjain, when it comes to telling the world about your "modelling physique", Wiikpedia is not the place. Please use social media for that. Your photography skills may come to good use with respect to Wikimedia Commons, provided you donate your photos for unlimited reuse for any purpose.--Quisqualis (talk) 01:28, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

How to find similar articles

So after coming to a pleasant conclusion with Matthew_Kulke, which I now consider done (for the most part) I am willing to open my horizon. I had a good time re-writing/re-organizing this article and adding references. I'd like to find similar Biographies in need of clean-up, but I am unsure of how to find them, thanks. SnazzyInfinity (talk • contribs) 16:23, 22 November 2020 (UTC) SnazzyInfinity (talk • contribs) 16:23, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

SnazzyInfinity, Have you come across Misplaced Pages:Community portal? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:39, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure I have but I'll check that out later, thanks SnazzyInfinity (talk • contribs) 16:41, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

SnazzyInfinity, I've found the SuggestBot useful for this. Essentially, you place some code on your Talk page which tells the bot what categories you are interested in. It will then give you a list of articles in that category that need work. For example, this code:

{{User:SuggestBot/suggest|Category:Harvard Medical School faculty}}

will find articles on people from the Harvard Medical School. Or, you can leave out the category and it will find articles based on other articles that you have edited (although you really need to have edited several articles for this to be effective). More information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/User:SuggestBot. Mike Marchmont (talk) 10:03, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Creating a draft

So I am quite familiar with wikipedia's guidelines at this point, so I don't need like disclaimer, rules ect. but I would like to know how to make a draft. I have an idea for an article, I'm just unsure of how to create it, (since I use my sandbox as like a guide and place to remember stuff). Thanks. SnazzyInfinity (talk • contribs) 16:27, 22 November 2020 (UTC) SnazzyInfinity (talk • contribs) 16:27, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

SnazzyInfinity, I use Misplaced Pages:Drafts#Creating_and_editing_drafts myself. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:36, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Changing to the hyperlink that is correct

I am working on the Poggioreale article and I wanted make a hyper link to Ghost town, but it come out as the disambigous page instead of the proper wikipeida link. Can somone either change it for me or give me directions so I may fix it? Both are using the url ghost town, but there has to be a way to tell one from another. Ty78ejui (talk) 16:39, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Ty78ejui, write it with lower case t in town. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:41, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

It worked so a capital means it goes to disambiguous page? But a lower case will take to the proper location? Ty78ejui (talk) 16:56, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Ty78ejui you got it, compare Ghost town, Ghost Town and ghost town. It's rare that capitalization matters, but it happens. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:02, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

@Ty78ejui: Not in general, if that's what you meant. Any title can technically be used for a dab page. In this particular case, it happens that Ghost Town is a dab page because it is the (properly capitalized) title of several works that need disambiguation, while the lower-case version ghost town is a common noun and can only refer to that article on the concept.

Article titles (and therefore wikilinks to them) are case-sensitive, with the exception of the first letter, which is always capitalized in the title, but can be linked to with either a lower- or upper-case first letter. So, north and North both refer to the same article, and either can be used, depending on the need. For example, "North is one of the cardinal directions" vs. "The building is north of ...". In contrast, Rattlesnake river refers to a non-existent article; it does not exist because it's an improper (non-) capitalization of Rattlesnake River. Depending on the exact situation and need, the former article may sometimes be created anyway as a redirect to the latter for convenience.

Regarding your specific case, there is no reason to capitalize ghost town; it's a common noun. —— 17:55, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

I can see your point in terms of grammar but would that cause it go to the wrong link? Its working now and its more important the link work then it be Grammarly perfect.Ty78ejui (talk) 18:06, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you I will retain this for future use. Ty78ejui (talk) 17:50, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Ty78ejui, you can use a pipe character ('|') to make the display text different from the link name. So if you did want to link to, say, the 1988 film, you could write ] and it would appear as Ghost Town, but link to the article about the film. --ColinFine (talk) 18:44, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

My first edits were reverted unjustly

How come an article can put in so much original research? I read the history of edited and talk page. Not only is this a truly non-notable person, this person’s page is full of grandiose claims. Hugsruing (talk) 16:45, 22 November 2020 (UTC) Hugsruing (talk) 16:45, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

That article is a mess. It was created in 2011 about a journalist born in 1988 with a claim to notability of a student award. Hugsruing, the thing to do is open a section on the talk page and discuss why you think your edits were an improvement. —valereee (talk) 16:55, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

See WP:BRD and start a discussion at Talk:Charles Thomson (journalist). Focus on content, not contributor. At a glance, there seems to be a lot of WP:ABOUTSELF refs. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:58, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your consideration and solutions. Very impressive skillset.I will discuss future edits if controversial on a Talk Page as you suggested. I looking into learning how to edit here to follow the proper format. Hugsruing (talk) 21:40, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

REVIEW NEEDED

https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Dr_Hemachandran_Ravikumar I HAVE SUBMITTED THE PAGE FOR REVIEW WITH ALL REFERENCE BUT IT IS DECLINED STATING THAT THE SUBJECT IS LIKE ADVERTISEMENT BUT ALL THE REFENCE LINKS ARE GIVEN IN THE ARTICLE PLEASE HAVE A LOOK AT ALL THE LINKS AND DO THE FINAL REVIEW Nhrp (talk) 18:13, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

@Nhrp: welcome to the Teahouse. First of all, please do not type in all caps (LIKE THIS), since it is more difficult to read, and it looks aggressive even if that is not your intention. Secondly, the reviewer was right, the draft is written like an advertisement. That does not have anything to do with the references, but with the style of writing. Thirdly, even if it were to be completely rewritten in a neutral tone, it is unfortunotely not very likely that the draft would be accepted, because it does not look as if the person meets Misplaced Pages's notability criteria. Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 18:32, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Nhrp. "is a Notable young scientist" is puffery for "is a scientist". I don't even know what "making book secrets of society" means, but it doesn't sound like a neutral description of anything. "This research paper is widely recognized as the valuable theoretical explanation" is puffery for "This paper gives an explanation". I didn't bother to go any further through the draft. --ColinFine (talk) 18:49, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Help with draft

At this point, all I need would be some help and pointers if you don't mind. I just created Draft:The Library of Babel (website), and whenever the right time, I would like to do a couple of things. First of all I want to change The Library of Babel to "The Library of Babel (short story)". If possible in that I want to add one of the redirects and links at the end (which I know how to do) and add this to the Babel disambiguation page (which I also know how to do). The only things stopping me are the fact that my draft IS a draft, and that I haven't a clue how to rename an article. So if anyone would like to give me some advice on the draft, and possibly a point in the right direction, that would be great, thanks. (P.S. to the teahouse staff, I am sorry for asking so many questions) SnazzyInfinity (talk • contribs) 18:43, 22 November 2020 (UTC) SnazzyInfinity (talk • contribs) 18:43, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

I'll give you my opinion, worth every cent you paid for it, its' weight in gold etc.

The Library of Babel should not be moved. I've never heard of it, but it seems the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC here.

Your draft, in it's current form, does not clearly show WP:GNG. You have 2 afaict independent sources, and Futurism at a glance seems so-so. I think you should instead use those 2 refs to add a mention of this website at The Library of Babel, in a WP:PROPORTION manner. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:01, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, I understand. I'll take you're advice for the mention. If I did want to continue with my draft, is there any way I could make it more "notable"? SnazzyInfinity (talk • contribs) 20:31, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

• SnazzyInfinity:The topic is certainly notable, you just need to add more sources. A quick GoogleNews search uncovers quite a few, including Guardian, Slate, Smithonian, etc. Just add more sources and the draft will be in fine shape. Nsk92 (talk) 20:47, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

I saw those, but didn't know how to include all of them, in the talk page for the draft someone is saying its not notable, so I don't really know. If you could help out with the draft that'd be great, thanks. SnazzyInfinity (talk • contribs) 20:50, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

You demonstrate notability of the topic by citing these sources in the text of the draft in some meaningful way. Whatever objection to notability somebody raises at the talk page is just their opinion, it's not the final word on the matter. You are entitled to your own opinion and you are entitled to make your case. Moreover, it is your prerogative, as an autoconfirmed user, to move the draft to mainspace when you feel it is ready, even if someone objects. Of course, there's a chance that an article can be listed for a WP:AfD then, and in that case you'd have to make a case for its notability there. By the way, I agree with the above comments that the page The Library of Babel should not be moved. Nsk92 (talk) 20:59, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

With the additional refs mentioned by Nsk92, I say go for it. They're all decent, but Smithsonian (magazine) stands out. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:09, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Help Needed: Adding list of publications

Hello! Sorry to be repetitive- I asked this question on 11/20 but never got a response so I'm trying again! I am writing an entry for a living person in the field of medicine. Is it appropriate to add a section listing some of their scientific/peer-reviewed publications? And if so, is there a rule of thumb for how many I can list? Thank you for any guidance! Jcollinsycc (talk) 20:43, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

There aren't any hard and fast rules in these kinds of situations. It is OK to add a few selected publications by the individual. I'd say list 5-6 most important ones. Nsk92 (talk) 00:31, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Articles of this nature may list a few of the author's significant journal publications, and books, but those do not contribute to confirming notability. David notMD (talk) 02:51, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you both! Jcollinsycc (talk) 15:05, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Fingers and toes

How come there are five separate articles***** for each finger but there's only one* article for each toe? TrevortniDesserpedx (talk) 21:49, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Trevortnidesserped, and welcome to the Teahouse. The answer to "why isn't there an article on ..." is always either "because nobody has written it yet" or "because it was deleted". The answer to "why is there an article on ... " is always "because somebody wrote it and nobody has deleted it". In either case, a secondary question is "are there sources to establish that the subject is notable? If not, then there shouldn't be an article on it.

In this case, it seems quite reasonable that the individual fingers play a distinct enough role in many cultures that there are enough sources to justify an article on each; while there is little cultural weight attached to the toes individually except perhaps for the hallux. What do you propose that an article on the second toe, for example, should contain? --ColinFine (talk) 22:52, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

I don't know, I guess I should've thought about it first. TrevortniDesserpedx (talk) 23:05, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

There could possibly be a case for a WP:MERGE of all these articles into just this one. Nick Moyes (talk) 23:38, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes lol, good one XD

Seriously though, while the answer is pretty obvious, the question is actually quite good imo: The Misplaced Pages article density here properly represents notability of these features, which are anatomically quite similar, but have a huge difference in human cultural significance. That's the same reason why e.g. in some other area, two hydrologically almost identical lakes might have a different notability/coverage level: Because one might be incredibly important for humans, while the other one might be just a forgotten backwater, so to say. --LordPeterII (talk) 11:13, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Question

If I have citation and proof that disproves other claims, and someone keeps claiming that it’s considered to be pov pushing..... How should I respond? BI5427 (talk) 00:14, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

With WP:CIVILITY. The {{disputed-inline}} template, along with a reliable source that supports your point of view, might be useful here. If you use it, immediately open a discussion on the talk page. Make sure your source is reliable and if possible, independent and free of bias related to the dispute. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 00:18, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

So some of y’all actually take this seriously?

Like you voluntarily spend your day doing this for fun? No payment? Being know-it-all fun suckers? Eddiedeedeedee (talk) 02:15, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Not ALL day. I do stop to eat and sleep. Seriously, it's more beneficial to mankind than some other hobbies I can think of. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 02:19, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Ah...I guess this is why I'm single. Missvain (talk) 02:21, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

It's an encyclopaedia that we've built from scratch with now more than 6 million articles, and top-ten ranking in the world. What have you done with your life that's so great, Eddie? Nick Moyes (talk) 02:25, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

I’m a 16 year old who was joking what would you expect me to achieve dude lmao but nice try with that roast Eddiedeedeedee (talk) 02:31, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@Eddiedeedeedee: what would you expect me to achieve There are a lot of things someone your age can do to make the world a better place. Be a mentor for younger kids for one, either in person or online. When COVID clears up work at a summer camp or coach youth sports. People your age are much better able to "relate" to younger kids than most people who started school in the 20th century. Yes, I just said people your age are on average better at relating to younger kids than people my age are because of your age. Take advantage of that while you can. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 02:41, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

YHBT. YHL. HAND. —A little blue Bori v^_^v 02:34, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

E is indef blocked. David notMD (talk)

Very seriously. I've been a Misplaced Pages editor for over a decade. I've created articles for projects, I've looked after AfD, I've helped out in areas hitherto alien to me. It's fun. It's relaxing. It's a good way to wind down. There have been frustrations and disappointments, and occasional moments of temper tantrums, but it all works out in the end. doktorb _words 16:23, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Help with posting my first article

Hi I am looking for some help on my first wikipedia page. Its about one of the companies i started and i have a few sources that have written articles about us and i wanted some help. Apparently my references are not helpful to the editor. I was seeing if anyone can take a look and help me out. Thanks

https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:STRW_Co.

Here are some of the articles

http://www.sdnews.com/view/full_story/27670533/article-News-and-community-briefs-for-Pacific-Beach-and-Mission-Beach-

http://sdvoyager.com/interview/meet-etienne-elsaesser-paulo-serrano-strw-co-south-san-diego/

https://shoutoutsocal.com/etienne-paulo-elsaesser-serrano-strw-co-co-founders/ Lifewithpaulo (talk) 02:57, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Lifewithpaulo. I am sorry, but Misplaced Pages is not a place for you to promote your small business ventures. You have an obvious conflict of interest and must comply with the mandatory Paid editing disclosure. Cullen Let's discuss it 03:05, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Ok i understand. So how do i go about having someone write about what the company is. not in a promotional way just in an informative way? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lifewithpaulo (talk • contribs) 03:30, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Don't. I know, it's a bummer, but it's best in the long run if you pretend Misplaced Pages doesn't exist at least as it relates to your company. Sidebar rant: Sometimes I think life would be better if Google never put Misplaced Pages articles on the top-10 results. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 03:35, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

“The biggest problem with Misplaced Pages,” an avid editor involved with the online project once told me, “is that people write it and that people read it.”" - Omer Benjakob Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:40, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages's concept of notability calls for people not associated in any way with the topic to have published stuff. Interviews don't contribute to notability. See WP:TOOSOON. David notMD (talk) 11:27, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Is being a wikipedia editor fun ?

Is being a wikipedia editor fun ? Verzilliz (talk) 02:58, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

I think so. Your mileage may vary. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 03:06, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Verzilliz, it depends on which part of Misplaced Pages you edit and how you experience fun. I certainly find it satisfying and often fun. If you're looking for silliness in the Misplaced Pages community, check out WP:SILLY, although a lot of it might be in-jokes that won't make sense until you have some experience. {{u|Sdkb}}  04:34, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Personally, I wouldn't describe it as fun. It needs care and effort, and can occasionally be frustrating. But I find it satisfying and worthwhile. Other people's opinions will vary. Mike Marchmont (talk) 09:49, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

photo

hi guys how do i add a photo. thanks. Wisdomwarrior27 (talk) 03:01, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:Images. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 03:06, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Hey Wisdomwarrior27, use the file upload wizard to upload images, the link for it is here.SenatorLEVI (talk) 04:02, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Favorite singer

I was reading about on of my favorite singer, Tarsem Jassar and I realized that his discography was a little wrong. The Song "Single Double" should be under Sardar Mohammad but it is under Rabb Da Radio. I tried to fix it, by it got ruined. Can anyone try to fix it. AppleAKB (talk) 04:59, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Done, that checks out. And it was indeed difficult to edit that (at least in source view like I do), but after some trial&error I think I managed. @AppleAKB feel free to check out if it looks good to you now. --LordPeterII (talk) 11:02, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Display Title

How to fill colors in our display title? DeepGlow2009 (talk) 05:28, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@DeepGlow2009: You mean adding a custom signature? See the instructions at the page I linked. {{u|Sdkb}}  16:33, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Sub Page

How to create a sub page of my userpage? DeepGlow (talk • contribs)

Hello DeepGlow2009. Simply add a slash and a mnemonic keyword after the URL of your userpage, and search for that expanded URL. You will get a message saying that the page does not exist, but it will give you an option to create the page. Do so. Cullen Let's discuss it 07:22, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Homoeopathy is not a pseudoscience

 2402:8100:3922:265:6C36:6DF6:3140:F633 (talk) 09:16, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi IP editor, this has been discussed numerous times at Talk: Homeopathy, see the various FAQs to discussions there. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:46, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

COI

Good morning All, a couple of months ago I tried to edit my husband's Misplaced Pages. Unfortunately, much of the data is incorrect, and upon changing it I was "told off" by admin. I have a new article and would like them to erase the existing one, is this at all possible and how do I do it? I find navigating this portal is like a maze! Thank you Finlaykate (talk) 10:23, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Finlaykate Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. There is not "a Misplaced Pages" about your husband, Misplaced Pages is the name of this entire website. There is a Misplaced Pages article about your husband. It also appears that he or someone else using his name has attempted to add information. Either you or him should submit a formal edit request(click for instructions) detailing changes you feel are needed to the article on its article talk page, Talk:Marco Augusto Dueñas. 331dot (talk) 10:28, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Finlaykate. You might find Misplaced Pages:Simple conflict of interest edit request easier to follow than the edit requests page linked above. Cordless Larry (talk) 11:27, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Talk pages

I happened to see a number of users user their talkpage for self-promotion. With what I know, self-promotion in talk pages are not allowed. Are we allowed to undo other people's talk pages without prior notice if seen as inappropriate? AlphonseOop (talk) 11:18, 23 November 2020 (UTC) AlphonseOop (talk) 11:18, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi AlphonseOop. User talk pages are subject to Misplaced Pages:User pages just like any other page within the user namespace; however, users are given a bit of leeway when it comes to the type of content they may put on their user pages and as long as it's not something that clearly isn't allowed per Misplaced Pages:User pages#What may I not have in my user pages?, then you probably should avoid removing it yourself and instead seek assistance from a Misplaced Pages administrator at Misplaced Pages:Administrator's noticeboard as explained in Misplaced Pages:User pages#On others' user pages. Even if you really think the content is a problem, you should be very carefully about editing another's user page because it could create lots of problems if it turns out that you're wrong. Asking for advice from administrators is usually a good idea, especially when you're a fairly new editor like you seem to be, since they will know what to do. -- Marchjuly (talk) 11:54, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

How to deal with nonsensical* drafts

I'm asking for my own learning purposes rather than to point any fingers, but this will make more sense if I do point to the draft in question, so here goes: please see Draft:Teenagers and sex. What would be the most appropriate way of handling this? If it were a user page, I'd request U5 speedy; if a published article, maybe A11. But presumably neither of those applies to drafts, and PROD isn't an option, either, so what should one do (other than just leaving it and moving on, that is)? Thanks.

PS: * I assume this is nonsensical, and not the first draft of an article on some well-known (to all but me) poem titled Teenagers and sex! -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:32, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Tagged as WP:G1. Nsk92 (talk) 11:41, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes, it is pretty incomprehensible (!), but I wasn't sure if it was enough so to qualify under G1. Thanks, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:06, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Well, we'll have to see what the admin reviewing the tag does. Hopefully the page gets deleted under G1 or perhaps G2. Nsk92 (talk) 12:23, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

It was a good call to speedy it. It was nonsensical to me, with no hope of making it to mainspace, and so I have deleted it. Nick Moyes (talk) 13:20, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Account Age

How to see the age of My Account?-- DeepGlow (talk • contribs)

Hi, DeepGlow2009. There's several ways but the easiest is to click on 'Preferences' in the top right of the page. There you can see when you registered and also your edit count. Regards, Zindor (talk) 12:09, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Asking for advice to use a Journal as info source

I want to add some informations from a journal(non-research), Which I found on Internet, that journal is in bengali, can I use those informations in English by translating them? if direct translations are prohibited, then how to use them properly? Soumyadip Dewanji (talk) 12:49, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Greetings Soumyadip Dewanji, yes, in general non-English sources are allowed, as you can see here: Misplaced Pages:Verifiability#Non-English sources. However, you will need to make sure that the journal qualifies under the normal criteria as a reliable source!

I personally use a lot of German sources where there are no English ones available. The information I obviously put into the articles here in English, so I translate them. Do not write Bengali text in English articles, or if you need to (for a quotation), best also give an English translation.

If you use a cite template (which anyone should) like this one: Template:Cite journal, there is an option to specify the language of the source. You can check the example there for "To cite an article written in a foreign language" which gives an overview over what you can specify. But yeah, if it is a good source, it can be in Bengali. --LordPeterII (talk) 13:21, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Small correction: In this case, actually Template:Cite magazine would be the appropriate cite template, since you said your source was non-research. --LordPeterII (talk) 13:24, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Repeated edit warring

Hi! Multiple IP address guest users keep reverting the same sourced, factual piece of information I added on Frogmore Cottage. The page is appeared to be already protected, but no matter how many talk page attempts or reversions by me or other editors, it keeps occurring. Is this a serious enough incident to take to the Misplaced Pages administrator boards? I can't think of how else to stop this. Thank you so much.--Bettydaisies (talk) 01:13, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, the page has never been protected. Page protection is usually not used for content disputes until other avenues, such as discussions on the talk page, are tried first. Even then, if it's a legitimate dispute and not a case of vandalism, page protection may not be the best answer. Good-faith non-logged-in editors have just as much of a moral right to edit Misplaced Pages as you or I. Granted, due to page protection, they don't have the same practical rights, but from a moral perspective, a good faith editor abiding by the rules should be treated the same whether logged in or not. By the way, I have not examined the edits in question, I'm just making some general statements about how Misplaced Pages tries to be open to everyone.

If you thing page protection is warranted, go to WP:RFPP and request page protection. Make sure you've read WP:Protection policy first and make sure your case is solid. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 01:20, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

pinging Bettydaisies as I have moved this post to the correct page, and you might have missed it otherwise. (BTW: It looks like that page has now been semi-protected). Nick Moyes (talk) 13:29, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Incidentally, the article is now semi-protected, so only users with accounts 4 days old and with 10 edits can edit that article. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:49, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

And looks like ToBeFree blocked the offending IP addresses. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:50, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Indeed :) Thanks for the ping. Yup. And I'll point to WP:DISCFAIL again, a very useful essay. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 16:53, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Nizar Abdullah Alsufi draft

Help me at the Nizar Abdullah Alsufi draft plz Host 9099087 (talk) 13:51, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

(Note: This draft article has now been deleted) Nick Moyes (talk) 14:58, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Great conversation! A+. Le Panini 16:31, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

My article from my sandbox has gone completely missing, help!!!!

Hi, I submitted my article for review and had accidentally asked to be reviewed for article creation when the original intention was to merge it with an existing article (Yued). Now my entire sandbox with my draft is missing and I would really love it back as it!!

Thank you for your time. Sunlew30 (talk) 15:06, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@Sunlew30: As far as I can tell, if this is about Yued, there is one version at Yued, and another, IMO less complete version at Draft:Yued's history. Nothing got lost, its yust located "somewhere else". Whichever version you choose for your teacher, both of them have a history allowing everyone, including your teacher, to look at different states by clicking the date links on the page history page. Maybe @UnitedStatesian and Robert McClenon: can tell you a bit more. Victor Schmidt (talk) 15:53, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Edit: Sunlew30 I can see that you also posted to Robert McClenon's talkpage. Please use yust one method of getting help at a time, otherwise you waste everyone's time, especially when A complex mix of moves, history swaps and such have to be sorted. Victor Schmidt (talk) 15:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

User:Victor Schmidt - I have already explained to User:Sunlew30 that it appears that User:UnitedStatesian made a good-faith mistake in redirecting the draft to the article. The draft contains much more information than the article and should be folded into the article. I have restored the draft. I have also asked for class information about the educational project. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:10, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Submission of a page

I’ve added a page for a tv presenter and it hasn’t appeared in the search list at all how long will it take for the page to be submitted approved and uploaded? Kruzepatrick (talk) 15:21, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Kruzepatrick: I hesitate to offer advice when I know so little myself, but it seems you've only been editing your own user page User:Kruzepatrick, which would explain why it's not showing up on searches. Having said which, looking at the said page, it's perhaps better that way, because that would not stay published for very long, IMHO. HTH, --DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:38, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Kruzepatrick. Please study your first article to understand how to go about the difficult task of creating a new Misplaced Pages article. Misplaced Pages is not interested in what you know or think (or what I know or think). It is only interested in what reliable published sources say about a subject. If you haven't researched and found sources to establish that the subject is notable, then you are probably wasting your time. --ColinFine (talk) 15:52, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

I have moved your draft to here Draft:Rhiannon Dollar as you had created it on your user page. The draft has no sources and is not written in a neutral tone so would be rejected if you submitted it. Please find multiple reliable sources that are independent of her and discuss her in-depth, then report on what they say. Theroadislong (talk) 16:08, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Properly format articles

How do you properly format an article to work with Google's snippets? When I search for Wadsworth E. Pohl's birth date, it says the correct date, but below says he's 112 years old. I believe it's a problem with how I said when he died, as when I search for his date of death, it says the correct date, but shows the article instead of age or similar. What am I supposed to put there that'd show it properly? JMVR1 (Communicate) (Validate my actions (for my ego, ofc)) (Email me) :) 15:26, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

JMVR1 The problem is on Google, so you'd need to contact them about it. Misplaced Pages has a death date, but for some reason, Google hasn't picked it up in their knowledge graph. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:35, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

JMVR1 It would probably help Search engines if the article had a Template:Infobox person added to it, as the birth and death dates would then be formatted in a standard way that these snippets understand. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:21, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

• JMVR1, Google's knowledge graphs seem to sometimes go by Misplaced Pages and sometimes by Wikidata, a sister project. Try clicking on "Wikidata item" from the left sidebar from Pohl's page, adding the death date there, and waiting a few days. {{u|Sdkb}}  16:23, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Joseph2302, Michael D. Turnbull, and Sdkb. This certainly helps. Wikidata is fine, so that's not the problem. I'll try adding an infobox, and if that doesn't work after a week or two, I'll contact Google. Also, how do I change the article title, so it is only "Wadsworth Pohl" instead of "Wadsworth E. Pohl"? Do I just "move" it to the new title, or is there some other process? JMVR1 (Communicate) (Validate my actions (for my ego, ofc)) (Email me) :) 16:34, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, JMVR1. The simple answer to your question is, if you think it is uncontroversial, then just move it; otherwise open a discussion on the article's talk page. However, COMMONNAME says that we use the form of the name in the bulk of the sources, and every one of the sources I've looked at says "Wadsworth E. Pohl". However, there is a far more important issue: not a single one of the sources does anything at all to establish that Pohl is notable, since not one of them is either independent or has significant coverage of him. What you are doing is the equivalent of getting the photo of a house just right when the house has no foundation and may be about to fall down. (That is why I have tagged the article). --ColinFine (talk) 19:18, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

contacting the author of "rnaiii"

I would like to perform a major edit on this article but would like to discuss it with the author before performing the edit Ricardus Cibarius (talk) 15:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC) Ricardus Cibarius (talk) 15:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Ricardus Cibarius Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. It is rare for articles to have only a single contributor; as Misplaced Pages is a collaborative project, most articles have multiple contributors. However, every article has an associated talk page(in this case, Talk:RNAIII) where you can discuss any changes you are considering for the article. Other editors that monitor that article should see your comment and, if they wish to, weigh in on it. I would give it a week or so. 331dot (talk) 16:00, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

• From its history, it looks like the page doesn't really have a single primary author, although Alexbateman is probably closest. See Help:Page history. {{u|Sdkb}}  16:27, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@Ricardus Cibarius: If you click on the article's talk page, you'll see it is associated with two 'WikiProjects' - WP:WikiProject Molecular Biology/Genetics and WP:WikiProject Molecular Biology/Molecular and Cell Biology. If you want more input on your plans, I suggest you post your ideas on the article's talk page, then also post two short notes, inviting interested editors from those WikiProjects to comment there. (I hope this makes sense). Nick Moyes (talk) 16:49, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Sara Radstone article contributed by RSLLX

Some questions regarding article Sara Radstone, written by RSLLX. 1. Why has the ‘publications’ section been removed- ie all the books and monographs that feature her work? References were given ( page numbers were not given, although I have them.) 2. How does one create a dedicated section eg ‘Exhibitions’.?. this has also been removed. 3. Why is ‘conflict of interest mentioned? I have not bought any of her work and have no connections with galleries. 4. The importance of Verification beyond the ceramic world is mentioned by some wiki editors. Anyone who has awareness of ceramics knows how difficult a fine art definition for ceramics is, to quote Sarah Kent, ex Time Out Art Editor, ‘ it is clay, it is not art’. 5. How does one email scans, ( of periodicals that write about Radstone) to wiki editors, eg ‘Ceoil ‘ RSLLX (talk) 16:44, 23 November 2020 (UTC) RSLLX (talk) 16:44, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Convenience link Sara Radstone —valereee (talk) 18:17, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

The Publications and Exhibitions content is parked on the Talk page. If there is intent to move any back to article, I recommend Selected publications and Selected exhibitions, with a few in each. David notMD (talk) 20:33, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Find Wikilinks Quickly?

Hi, I have a question with wiki links today. People says that I cannot add a wiki link to an article that already been added before. So can I find a wiki link quickly with a gadget? Then I will know if I can add the link.  Larryzhao|Talk|Contribs 17:52, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

I just use CTRL+F to search the page for the linked instance of a term, which will work in most browsers. I agree it's sometimes frustrating that a wikilink shouldn't be repeated. I've seen plenty of instances where it has.--Shantavira| 17:59, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Larryzhao123, there are also scripts, like User:Evad37/duplinks-alt —valereee (talk) 18:21, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@Larryzhao123: Note that there are exceptions, like first mention outside the lead and tables. See MOS:REPEATLINK for the details. —— 03:25, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

User:Musicloverasr Original title (Hardeep Grewal) not showing

Hi, this is a page created by me but i faced a problem original name not showing in Heading Title i want display 'Hardeep Grewal' but currently display name is User:Musicloverasr how can i replace this please help he and guide me please it's humble request. https://en.wikipedia.org/User:Musicloverasr Musicloverasr (talk) 18:03, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Musicloverasr, you wrote about Grewal on your own user page, which is intended for you to write about your own interests and activities in editing Misplaced Pages. Some helpful person has moved it to an appropriate place, Draft:Hardeep Grewal.   Maproom (talk) 18:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Translate Page?

Hello world.

Just saw THIS article isn't available in German yet. Thought I could help out since I translate texts on post state examination level and I am more or less familiar with this vocabulary. I'll read through all the rules and whatnot, but just to get started I thought I'd post this here. What do you folks think? Mystischer (talk) 18:19, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@Mystischer: Since each Misplaced Pages has its own rules and guidelines for acceptable articles, I suggest you ask at the German Misplaced Pages for their advice. is the place I think. RudolfRed (talk) 18:44, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@Mystischer: I assume you want to translate it to the german Misplaced Pages. First, please check that the topic meets the german Misplaced Pages inclusion rules Then, please ask at de:WP:IMP to have the version history of the english Article Imported. Once The import is complete, you can go on to translate the page. If you need help, you can always ask at de:WP:FZW or at the user talkpage of any editor (including mine. Please be advised that you should check back with the sources given both during and after translation. Victor Schmidt (talk) 18:50, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Question by PhantomGamer000

What is a tesseract? PhantomGamer000 (talk) 18:31, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@PhantomGamer000: See Tesseract. If you still have questions, ask at WP:RD, since the Tea House is for asking about how to use Misplaced Pages. RudolfRed (talk) 18:46, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Potential problem with link in an article

Hello - I think I just noticed a problem with a link in an article. The page is for "Dennis L. Montgomery" and if one scrolls down to the section entitled "eTreppid Technologies, LLC" then hovers over the link to "Warren G. Trepp", instead of getting the page for said "former chief junk bond trader", one gets this page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/William_G._Hundley#Legal_career

Hundley's Wiki page says he was a "criminal defense attorney" and mentions nothing about "junk bonds" so I assume it's safe to say that the link is wrong. But I don't know anything about these people, so I wouldn't feel comfortable just making a change myself even if I were an editor. Thank you. NoviceWikiUser (talk) 19:02, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, NoviceWikiUser, and welcome to the Teahouse. You are an editor! But this one was a bit tricky to find. The problem is not in the article Dennis L. Montgomery, but the fact that there is a redirect page called Warren G. Trepp which unaccountably points to William G. Hundley. (At least, I presume it's unaccountable: I've never heard of any of these people). That redirect was created four years ago by BarrelProof, who is still editing, and can perhaps explain to you why they did so. (I have just pinged them, so they should see this item). --ColinFine (talk) 20:09, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

The redirect was valid as there used to be text about Trepp (Hundley represented Trepp), but it got removed. Given the principle of least astonishment it's not an ideal situation. Preferably the legal career section can be rewritten to remedy this. Zindor (talk) 20:23, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes, Trepp was discussed in the William G. Hundley article when I created the Warren G. Trepp redirect. I also created a similar redirect at Warren Trepp at about the same time. In addition to the Dennis L. Montgomery article, Trepp is also significantly discussed in the Jim Gibbons (American politician) article, so I have now redirected the page to that article for current purposes. But Trepp is also highly noteworthy on his own. I'm sure he is notable enough for someone to a Misplaced Pages article about him, so I have marked the Warren Trepp redirect as {{R with possibilities}}. See this article, for example. — BarrelProof (talk) 23:48, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

How do you use the "talk" page?

How do you use the "talk" page? PhantomGamer000 (talk) 19:05, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:Talk page guidelines for information about talk pages. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 19:19, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Every article and every editor have Talk pages. Not for chat. David notMD (talk) 20:35, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Template:Ping (formerly: Policies Here)

Are there any policies here on how to ask a question, or do you just ask? Slykos (talk) 19:47, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@Slykos: Welcome to Misplaced Pages. Just ask, as long as it is related to how to use or edit on Misplaced Pages. RudolfRed (talk) 19:53, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@RudolfRed: Okay! The question I was going to ask is what is the {{ping}} for? I've seen it used a lot, but what does it do? Slykos (talk) 20:03, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@Slykos: It sends a notification to the user, so that they know they've been mentioned in a discussion, the same as what {{re}} does. RudolfRed (talk) 21:54, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

RudolfRed

Hello, and thank you for lending your time to help improve Misplaced Pages! If you are interested in editing more often, I suggest you create an account to gain additional privileges. Happy editing! ! Slykos (talk) 00:07, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

@Slykos: Huh? —— 03:35, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Check eligibility for a Misplaced Pages article

I want to create an article named "George & Willy" for George & Willy as a paid editor. This is a company situated in New Zealand which produces signs and furniture. Please let me know if it is eligible for being a Misplaced Pages article?

I've got several websites and newspapers mentioned this company's name. Some of them are given below. Please have a look.

• https://theregister.co.nz/2017/07/25/future-bright-george-and-willy/
• https://sunlive.co.nz/news/157061-winners-announced-export-awards.html
• https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/exporter-dominion-salt-licks-the-rest-in-tauranga-awards/MDHAU73CDAQGTUBQHGTKAYSF74/
• https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/houses/114992708/how-george-wilkins-from-george--willy-gets-things-done
• https://www.homestolove.com.au/george-and-willy-profile-19304
• https://architecturenow.co.nz/articles/laid-back-approach-george-and-willy/

Thank you!  Seedlesslime (talk) 19:59, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Kudos to you for starting with declaring paid on your User page. I made you list bulleted. FYI: interviews and brief mentions of awards do not contribute to Misplaced Pages's definition of notability. David notMD (talk) 20:37, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Assistance

Article was denied, need assistance

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/Draft:Epopt_Order_of_the_Serpent%27s_Crown 2600:8800:2E00:9B3:DC26:51BD:C2E1:8611 (talk) 20:04, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

I'd suggest creating an account first, so people can message you. Also, it was denied because you need to cite sources. I'd suggest finding reliable websites or the such to cite with this policy. Slykos (talk) 20:10, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Article on Sat Pal Rattan

I would like to submit an introductory article about Mr. Sat Pal Rattan. Need guidance on how to go about it.

Much thanks in advance! Shalu R. Darshan (talk) 21:46, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Shalu R. Darshan Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. I've posted some introductory information to your user talk page. Successfully writing a new article is the absolute hardest thing to do on Misplaced Pages. It takes much time and practice. You will greatly increase your chances of success if you first spend time editing existing articles in areas that interest you, to get a feel for how Misplaced Pages operates and what is expected of article content. It's also a good idea to use the new user tutorial to learn more about Misplaced Pages.

If you still want to attempt to create a new article right now, you should first read Your First Article, then use Articles for Creation to create and submit your draft for review by another editor who, if they accept it, will formally place it in the encyclopedia.

If you are associated with this person, please review conflict of interest and paid editing for information on formal disclosures you may be required to make. 331dot (talk) 21:57, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Where is the page tab?

Hello Teahouse hosts. Tribe of Tiger has been very helpful to me and edited articles on which I've been active--particularly with archiving sources. She explained on my talk page how I might go about it, specifically by accessing the Page tab. However, I find no page tab where she does. In fact, I find no page tab at all. Complicating matters is that depending which device she uses, she discovered she does not always have the Page tab on her screen.

I do desire to archive internet sources and I would like to know about the mystery of the Page tab. So, might you be able to assist with the matter? I look forward to hearing from you and kind regards.Hu Nhu (talk) 23:05, 23 November 2020 (UTC) Hu Nhu (talk) 23:05, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@Hu Nhu: I'm unfortunately not familiar with the page tab. I read the instructions you were given, and I don't have it on my menu and can't find any documentation about it. It may be a plug-in like Misplaced Pages:Twinkle that has to be installed, but hopefully someone else here will be able to help you. TimTempleton 00:21, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you Timtempleton. That is most curious.Hu Nhu (talk) 01:55, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

@Hu Nhu: "Fix dead links" is on the "View History" tab (in desktop Vector skin, anyway). You can also go to it directly at https://iabot.toolforge.org/index.php?page=runbotsingle —— 03:41, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you AlanM1. I appreciate your kind attention. Might you know anything about the Page tab?Hu Nhu (talk) 05:03, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

I am puzzled by this. I began editing in Feb/March 2018, (on a 4 year old IPad, "inherited " from my niece) and had the Page tab back then, to the best of my memory. I still have it on my new IPad. But, when I checked my desktop computer yesterday...no tab. Timtempleton and AlanM1, if you don't have the Page tab, how do you access the following features? Under Analysis I have things like authorship, copyright vio detector, traffic report, plus others. Search provides Search history- Wikiblame, plus others.Tools provides Expand bare references, fix dead links, and others. The Page tab is truly marvelous! Could it be something that I set, long ago, in my Preferences? Or Gadgets? I am using the Vector skin, but a box is checked for "Legacy Vector".

I can see "fix dead links" under the history page, but that's not the exact same function as "expand bare references". Fix dead links will archive the links, @Hu Nhu:, I am sorry that I did not realize/remember that it could be accessed from the History page, my bad. But the Expand bare references will populate a slew of bare urls. We will figure this out, then you, Tim and Alan can experience the joys of the page tab (if desired). I am wondering if this is something available only on small devices, like an IPad. Truly, I do think that this might be the case, as the tab doesn't appear on my desktop computer.Tribe of Tiger 06:21, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Help on Scholarship - where to find reliable sources?

Hi, I asked a question recently on an article that had been identified for help with clean up: Jennie Hwang. The article is still a little rough around the edges and there's clearly a sourcng issue but it's a Women in Red article so I'm interested in helping improve it but hit a practical roadblock.

I asked this question on the talk page but I think this might actually be the better forum: how do you find reliable sources to support how much academic work someone has produced? Are there preferred repositories?

Thank you! A wizard did it (talk) 23:14, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@A wizard did it: Before I saw your post on the talk page, I was going to direct you to look at Google Scholar to see who is citing the subject's academic work. But you already figured that out. What you need is a search term to filter out the results that aren't Jennie Hwang's. Perhaps you'd be better off asking at Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Science. They may be more familiar with how to use Google Scholar. TimTempleton 00:07, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

List of Hobbies; Added Corn Hole in Competitive Outside. I'm noobie and don't understand how to clean up errors on page.

 Timstarnes (talk) 23:48, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: List of hobbies § Outdoors 3 I fixed the ref error. TimTempleton 23:58, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Dynamic addressing and user blocking.

On the odd occasion I will go to a Misplaced Pages page to be greeted by a nastily worded admonition that my changes have been reverted and flagged as vandalism and that I have been blocked for 2 days. Or something similar.

Given that I haven't changed a wikipedia entry in YEARS this is rather offputting.

I have in the past advised these over eager users not to rely on IP addresses to send these messages. In Australia where I live most internet users have dynamic addressing and unless the message is sent pretty much immediately after any changes have been made, your message will arrive on the screen of any one of 20 million random different people.

I have also advised these over eager users that if they do feel the need to send messages, and the why of this makes no sense to me at all, to at least assume good faith and to keep the message respectful and polite.

I stopped donating to Misplaced Pages because of this, despite it being one of my go to websites for information. I simply cannot financially support an organisation that allows users to send unwarranted and abusive messages to visitors to the site.

Misplaced Pages either needs to fix this at a structural level or registered users and moderators need to adopt a culture that considers this every bit as bad as the vandalism it seeks to prevent. 220.253.71.58 (talk) 23:50, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Unfortunately this is a difficult problem. Probably the best solution is for anti-vandalism tools to be more aware of large dynamic-IP address ranges and, when applying warnings to those "user talk" pages, using language that includes prominent "this message may not be for you, especially if it's more than a few hours old." davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 00:23, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello IP editor. I am sorry that you find these messages so irritating. Warning and blocking IP vandals is an essential part of the ongoing fight against vandalism. As for being "every bit as bad", we get vastly more complaints about vandalism than about these messages. You can avoid all such warnings by taking the simple step of registering an account, which provides a higher degree of anonymity than disclosing your (current) IP address, as you have done with this post. As for the donations you stopped making, they went to the Wikimedia Foundation, which has no day to day editorial control over Misplaced Pages which is highly autonomous. Misplaced Pages editors have no knowledge of who donates and who doesn't donate. We are unpaid volunteers who totally ignore any comments about stopping donations. Cullen Let's discuss it 00:36, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

@220.253.71.58: I posted a link to your message on Misplaced Pages talk:Twinkle#IP talk pages (permalink). Twinkle is one of the more popular anti-vandalism tools. At least the author/maintainer will be aware of your concern. Whether it is feasible to change Twinkle to address your concerns, that I cannot say. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 00:44, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

The messages you are talking about are on user talk pages, like User talk:220.253.71.58. If you know that your address changes routinely, your user talk page for your current address should be regarded simply as a feature you don't have access to, and be ignored. Anonymous visitors to the site should not have any reason to go to those user talk pages. Also, I've seen the disclaimers mentioned by Davidwr above, though I'm not clear on when/how they get added. There is one on the first warning on the talk page I referenced. Perhaps the block template message should include the same disclaimer, or just be worded differently for IPs. Lastly, I'd say the Twinkle templated messages are fairly non-aggressive at the first couple of levels – it's only the higher level ones given to repeat offenders that use more direct language. I don't see a way around that, and believe that the majority of such usage is probably correctly used by experienced editors. Newbies (and even old hands) will sometimes make mistakes, though. There are a lot of reasons to give or not give to the WMF; this wouldn't be on either list IMO. —— 04:01, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Help with disruptive editing

Can someone help me? This user Komoonyoung, always making disruptive editing on Korean drama page changing the rating so that this user favorite dramas is at the top of the list. It's really annoying how much this user is imposing on it's own. Thank you in advance. I think this user won't be stop until blocked. Michaelelijahtanuwijaya (talk) 00:13, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

You have edited this article literally hundreds of times over several years, and now a new editor has made four edits in the past 48 hours. Perhaps best to invite that editor to the Talk page of the article for a discussion. David notMD (talk) 00:28, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

How to Become an Administrator

How do I become an administrator (with steps)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mpadilla0139 (talk • contribs) 00:55, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

@Mpadilla0139: Please see Misplaced Pages:Administrators. Step 1 is "candidates should generally be active, regular, and long-term Misplaced Pages contributors, be familiar with the procedures and practices of Misplaced Pages, respect and understand its policies, and have gained the general trust of the community." (Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages by typing four keyboard tildes like this: ~~~~. Or, you can use the button, which automatically signs posts.) GoingBatty (talk) 01:00, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello Mpadilla0139. Thoroughly familiarize yourself with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. Write several new articles and take a couple of them to Good article status. Improve and expand other articles, and fight against vandalism. Participate in the various dispute resolution processes in a constructive way. As you gain more experience, help new editors, either here at the Teahouse or at the Help desk or at the Articles for Creation process. At all times, do your best to be constructive, level-headed and helpful. Edit frequently. In a few years, you will be ready. Cullen Let's discuss it 01:16, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Inserting a meme into an article.

Hi all! The Halo Infinite page details how a screenshot of the gameplay footage was created into a meme and how its developers embraced it. What are the CC rules on linking/uploading that picture to the article? SuddenlyMangoes (talk) 01:02, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello editor, Misplaced Pages is much more professional than being a meme page. Unless a news agency reported on it, please post the memes on reddit instead. Thanks 162.245.178.141 (talk) 01:03, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Creating a Duplicate Page for Another Country

How can I start/transfer an English/American Misplaced Pages that has already been established in another country? 2601:406:4180:4810:78CB:77C5:C1B:C48 (talk) 01:51, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Do you mean you want to translate an article? Either way, WP:AFC can help you with this. 162.245.178.141 (talk) 01:53, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

If you mean translating an article from another language's Misplaced Pages, read Misplaced Pages:Translation. If you are new to Misplaced Pages, definitely submit your translation through WP:AFC. If you are brand-new or not logged in, that will be the only way to create the article. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 02:30, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

How many references should I list for a particular item I am including in the draft "Karen Earle Lile" when there are archives on multiple platforms? Is listing a source on one platform enough?

I have just finished adding about 35 references on the Karen Earle Lile Article. This is the article where I am learning the best approach with references and writing, before creating any other articles. There are several references to interviews that were done by Karen Lile and Rick Tittle of sailing celebrities listed in the article, but I have only added one reference citation per interview, the one that has a dedicated page on Sail Sport Talk.

But, because these interviews are broadcast on multiple completely independent platforms and the archives are held by those platforms (iheart radio, tune in, etc), I could add additional references for each interview. But, it would mean adding about 30 more references. I was just trying to touch on a representative sample and the easiest way to find the recordings is through Sail Sport Talk, because it embeds some of the archives from iheart radio and vimeo inside a dedicated page that has the title of the person being interviewed. In contrast, iheart radio only preserves the date of the broadcast under "Sail Sport Talk with Karen Lile", and not all the guests interviewed are mentioned in the written text. So someone reading the wiki article would need to listen to the interview to confirm it is a reference. By listing the SailSportTalk.com page for the person being interviewed, all the interviews are embedded and listed by the names of the people being interviewed, so it is quickly apparent that the reference is connected to the claim in the wikipedia article, without the reader having to go to a lot of work to confirm it.

Do you think this is necessary and recommended to add several references to each item on the page, just for showing the many platforms that archive the syndicated show and the breadth of its reach on the web? I am thinking it might be more references than needed for this article (and a lot of work). I was just trying to touch on a representative sample. I would be willing to do it, but only if you think it is necessary.

I would welcome your guidance. My intention in listing these references and interviews is to show the historical context of Karen Lile's work, n in the broadcast history for Sail Sport by mentioning just a few highlights. Other's could add to the article if they think something important was left out. User:PattiWindSpirit PattiWindSpirit (talk) 01:57, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Just one - but note that because interviews with the subject are by definition not third-party, they cannot help to satisfy our notability criteria. —A little blue Bori v^_^v 02:17, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Courtesy: Draft:Karen Earle Lile has been Declined, more references added, Resubmitted. For references, quality over quantity. Listing people she interviewed does not belong in the article. Ditto listing where the show broadcast. Accomplishments of family members do not belong in the article. "In name only" references (content only briefly mentions her by name) do not contribute to Misplaced Pages's definition of notability. She may be notable, but there is too much clutter. Less is more. Also, section titles should be short and in sentence case, i.e., only first word capitalized. David notMD (talk) 07:30, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Chronic behavioral problem for AdamHui2015

Hi all. Every contribution from this editor was reverted without exception and after multiple warnings.  North wiki (talk) 06:38, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi North wiki. It's not clear what you're asking, but the Teahouse isn't really the place for reporting editor behavior issues. There are quite a few administrators who are also Teahouse hosts and maybe one fo them will take a look, but generally a detailed discussion of editor behavior is not really within the Teahouse's scope. Anyway, it looks like the editor in question has been issued a number of warnings by other editors, and if they continue to repeat the same mistakes eventually someone will end up starting a discussion about their edits, etc. at one of the administrators' noticeboards depending upon the nature of the problem.While I haven't looked at all of the this editor's contributions, I wouldn't call this edit vandalism per WP:NOTVANDAL; it might not be an improvement per se and too WP:BOLD, but it's doesn't seem to be vandalism either. I'm sure you meant well by reverting it, but be careful about just automatically assuming that every edit this editor makes is vandalism since that could be seen as bit WP:BITEy, especially when the other account is only a few days old and might not be as familiar with relevant policies and guidelines as a someone who has been around longer. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:44, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi. I would like to point out that the edit you referered to was not based on facts and based on the editor's previous behavior, it is most likely vandalism IMO.~ North wiki (talk) 08:06, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) North wiki, that user hasn't edited in a few days, but they look to be on their last legs, so to speak, as they have a level-4 warning on their talk page, which is the final level before they're blocked. Given that, based on the reversion pattern, they seem to be pretty clearly a net negative to the project, others have been perhaps been a little too lenient, but there is a fairly strong culture of second chances here. If you see them making any further bad edits, report them to Misplaced Pages:Administrator intervention against vandalism where they'll likely be blocked. {{u|Sdkb}}  07:47, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. ~ North wiki (talk) 08:06, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

I want to write my first article but I'm not sure if my content is notable

Hi! I've never written an article for Misplaced Pages before, but I would like to write one. I'm not sure if the content I have in mind is notable, so I'm looking for some guidance.

I would like to write about my grandfather, Artur Müller. He was a Polish composer who emigrated to Brazil after the Second World War. He left an extensive musical output, some of which was published by independent editors and performed in theatres and concert halls, both in Brazil and in Poland (including a small opera). Much of his work explores and combines Polish and Brazilian themes and rhythms. I have in my possession a lot of material about him and his life, including newspaper and magazine articles and most of his scores. My goal is to give his life and work more visibility.

Thank you for any input!

Arthur. Muller.Arthur (talk) 06:53, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi Arthur. The first thing you probably should take a look is Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest#Writing about yourself, family, friends. Although it's not expressly prohibited to try and create or edit content about someone or something you have more than a casual connection to, it's something that's highly discouraged because it often leads to problems since it can be hard to write about something in accordance with relevant Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines when you're closely connected to it. The next thing you probably should look at is Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not (particularly this part), and Misplaced Pages:The answer to life, the universe, and everything to give you a better feel for what a Misplaced Pages:Article is intended to be. Bascially, Misplaced Pages articles are only intended to be written about subjects considered to be Misplaced Pages notable and the way this is typically assessed is by determining whether the subject has received significant coverage in reliable sources (as defined by Misplaced Pages) that are WP:SECONDARY and WP:INDEPENDENT in nature. For composers like you're grandfather, this is explained in a little more detail in WP:COMPOSER. You're going to need to establish that you're grandfather at least one of those notability criteria to even give a possible article about him a chance of being accepted. Perhaps you should try asking about him at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Poland, Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Brazil or Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Composers because those WikiProjects are where you might find editors who might be able to help you ascertain your grandfather's Misplaced Pages notability or have even heard of him. If you can establish that your grandfather is Misplaced Pages notable, then perhaps a member of one of those WikiProjects will even create an article about him. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:25, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Question (24 Nov 2020)

Is there a logical reason why there is not, and hasn't been an article on SuperMarioLogan? He's an extremely popular YouTuber who has been written about by trusted, popular sources such as Good Morning America, The Washington Post and Yahoo News! and is notable for many things including his bizarre medical history, controversy in mainstream media, and winning of an $800,000 auction for Tom Brady dinner. I tried creating an article about it which can be found here, and it was rejected for citing articles that apparently "did not focus on the subject enough." I am fully aware that my editing skills aren't always up to par, but it's kind of ridiculous Logan doesn't have a page after all that he's been involved in, and I am not a hardcore fan of his by any means. I know the answer definitely isn't "he isn't popular enough." He has twice as many subscribers as Corpse Husband. I just need some help and ideology on this issue. TrevortniDesserpedx (talk) 07:09, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Trevortnidesserped, welcome to the Teahouse! Looking at your draft, I'm inclined to agree with you that the subject passes the general notability guideline and the notability guideline for entertainers. Pinging reviewer IVORK: Can you explain why you declined this draft?

One thing that is important to note is that, on Misplaced Pages, "notability" has a very specific meaning, as defined by our guidelines, that is different from the general understanding of the term as a synonym for "popularity". So the subscriber count isn't what's important but rather the media coverage. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}}  07:41, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Sdkb, thanks for the feedback! I'm glad I got to hear from a more experienced user on this one (and it's rare that one actually thinks I have a valid point)

On another note, I just recieved another note about the article which links to the sandbox (has different content on it than it did yesterday, but that's beside the point) I'm still a bit frustrated about this and I hope this can be worked out TrevortniDesserpedx (talk) 08:06, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

The article SuperMarioLogan has been created and re-created as pure promotion for the person, so many times that the title has been protected from creation, and there have been plenty of attempts over the past few years to insert his name into Misplaced Pages articles as well. This is very common for YouTube creators of various nationalities; as the reviewer pointed out, notability is not proportional to popularity, in fact popularity is not a factor at all. The draft linked above is not as promotional as some have been, though everything that is sourced to the YouTube channel itself has to be removed (such as the unsupported claims of a "long YouTube career", and the entire "Early life" section, as well as the person's siblings). It looks like there is in fact a stronger claim to notability for the channel than for the person, since all the independent sources discuss the controversial content of the channel, not the person behind it. (Also keep in mind that it is never the case that a person "has a Misplaced Pages article". A Misplaced Pages article does not belong to the subject and the subject should have absolutely no say in whether an article exists and what it contains.) --bonadea contributions talk 08:37, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Wow, the spamming has been worse than I realised at first. See also the deletion logs of Logan Thirtyacre, The SuperMarioLogan Movie, Draft:Logan Thirtyacre, Draft:Logan Austin Thirtyacre, and the many user pages that crop up when searching on Logan Thirtyacre or SuperMarioLogan. Has he been soliciting Misplaced Pages articles through his YouTube channel? Again, that is a very common thing to happen, but it does not make an individual notable. --bonadea contributions talk 08:41, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Why is the Misplaced Pages particle about me so incomplete?

It's a major embarrassment, not my achievements in my career so far, but that what I have achieved is not being represented properly on Misplaced Pages. Everyone knows that Misplaced Pages editors make more problems than curing them, by their over pedantic rules and regulations, but this doesn't help me at all, or anyone reading the article. As I have said many times, the article is less than 50% complete and this is because of editors blocking any attempt to make it better. NOTE that I am not reading any messages from anyone via Misplaced Pages, disgruntled editors and the like BUT if you're a mature, grounded adult who can edit my page to make it complete, and live in a Democratic world, not a Republic, then contact me via my website please.EddieLeVisco (talk) 09:08, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages Teahouse
• Misplaced Pages help forums