Talk:Justin Trudeau - Misplaced Pages

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PPE Stockpiles and Cansino Deal

I believe these two issues are of encyclopedic value. Please share your thoughts here. Peerreviewededitor (talk) 13:20, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

they are for the covid article (where you also posted the same information)...or perhaps the government article..... but don't see how this is a personal item at all...... many more things that happened. Moxy-

22:33, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Whoa, slow down. Ya got three discussions going concurrently. Will take me weeks to unravel it. GoodDay (talk) 18:50, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

CanSino

On the topic of the COVID-19 response, I believe we need to include both the good and the bad. Yes, Pfizer and Moderna were ultimately approved, but for many months the government was banking on the CanSino contract to work out. The Communist Party of China reneged on the deal, leaving Canada to scramble for an alternative. I believe that this widely covered story is noteworthy in this article as Trudeau has had a history of trusting and having favourable views of communist governments, and may have put too many eggs in the wrong basket. https://ipolitics.ca/2021/01/26/days-after-announcing-deal-ottawa-learned-china-blocked-cansino-vaccine-shipment/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canada-china-vaccine-collaboration-began-to-fall-apart-days-after/ https://financialpost.com/diane-francis/diane-francis-questions-mount-over-trudeaus-vaccine-dealings-with-china https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/where-did-canadas-vaccine-effort-actually-go-wrong/ https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/goldstein-why-did-trudeau-trust-china-on-vaccines Peerreviewededitor (talk) 00:14, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Premiership of Justin Trudeau maybe.....but after reading "Trudeau has had a history of trusting and having favourable views of communist governments"....think best you let others deal with the article.--Moxy-

10:50, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, Mr. Trudeau has made a positive eulogy for the communist dictator in Cuba, Fidel Castro. https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/27/world/justin-trudeau-castro-eulogy-parody/index.html When asked which nation he admires most, Trudeau expressed an admiration for the dictatorship in China. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/justin-trudeau-s-foolish-china-remarks-spark-anger-1.2421351 However, neither of these facts are part of the CanSino addition. What is relevant, is the Mr. Trudeau attempted to reach a deal with CanSino, the deal fell through due to deteriorating Canadian-Chinese relations related to the arrest and extradition treaty of the Huawei executive (as other nations which ordered the CanSino vaccine received their orders). https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canada-china-vaccine-collaboration-began-to-fall-apart-days-after/ The end result, as has been reported by multiple media outlets, is a significant delay in the Canadian acquisition of vaccines. This is all factual information. I'm not sure burying this information in other articles, to create the appearance that the Trudeau government made no Covid-19 related mistakes, is appropriate.Peerreviewededitor (talk) 12:16, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

This stuff is over my head, which is currently spinning. GoodDay (talk) 18:50, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Here is the proposed addition for this section. I am open to rewording it.

"In May 12 of 2020, the Trudeau government announced it had reached an exclusive deal with CanSino Biologics, a Chinese pharmaceutical company with ties to the NRC. However, due to deteriorating Canadian-Chinese relations, the Cansino deal fell through, leading to criticism that Canada put all of its eggs in the wrong basket. It wasn’t until August 5 2020, that the Trudeau government created a plan to secure doses of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. "Peerreviewededitor (talk) 22:17, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

National Emergency Strategic Stockpile

On the topic of the Canada’s National Emergency Strategic Stockpile (of personal protective equipment), Mr. Trudeau chose to close about half of the warehouses that were set up as an emergency backstop so that if there was an epidemic/pandemic, the provinces would have a reserve of PPE. This proved to be a shortsighted decision on behalf of the government. https://globalnews.ca/news/6844277/coronavirus-trudeau-stockpile-waste/ https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/auditor-finds-national-ppe-stockpile-unprepared-for-pandemic-despite-warnings https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-trudeau-concedes-ppe-stockpile-fell-short-ndp-charges-a-breach-of/ https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-likely-did-not-stockpile-enough-masks-other-protective-equipment-health-minister-1.4877856 Does anyone else have an opinion on this topic?Peerreviewededitor (talk) 00:07, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Again added to COVID-19 vaccination in Canada and could see it at Premiership of Justin Trudeau....but would have to be factual.--Moxy-

11:01, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

The closure of warehouses of Canada’s National Emergency Strategic Stockpile of PPE is factual, and has been reported by multiple media outlets (see above). I don't believe that burying this information in other articles is appropriate. Right now, the Covid-19 section of this article lacks any of the mistakes made by the government. It reads like a whitewashed campaign ad. Peerreviewededitor (talk) 12:20, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

I'm exhausted. This is a lot of things to propose for inclusion in a bio. GoodDay (talk) 18:50, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Here is the proposed addition to this section. I am open to rewording it:

"Initially, Canada faced a shortage of personal protective equipment, as the Trudeau government closed several warehouses containing PPE, and the budget to maintain Canada's National Emergency Stockpile System was cut from $73 million in 2014, to $51 million in 2019." Peerreviewededitor (talk) 22:16, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

PMO Chief of Staff's Husband's firm received contract to administer the Rent Assistance Program

I believe that this warrants inclusion in the article. It is similar to the WE Charity investigation in that a senior ranking member of the Trudeau administration benefited from a government contract. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-spouse-of-pms-chief-of-staff-had-meeting-on-liberals-rent-relief/ https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/trudeau-government-paying-84m-to-firm-employing-katie-telfords-husband-to-manage-rent-assistance-aid-program https://globalnews.ca/news/7259755/conservatives-investigation-canadas-outsourced-rent-subsidy/ As the Trudeau government approved this contract, I believe this conflict of interest case should be included in the article. Peerreviewededitor (talk) 00:07, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Remember, it was Conservative MPs Pierre Poilievre and Michael Barrett that requested an ethics investigation to which the ethics commissioner responded that the allegations are "speculative" and do not provide "a factual basis to support the belief that a contravention" of the Conflict of Interest Act happened. Again, we must avoid inauthentic and electioneering on Misplaced Pages. link to CTV article Words in the Wind(talk) 16:58, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Here is the proposed addition to this section. I am open to rewording it:

"Prime Minister Trudeau received criticism when it was revealed that Trudeau government was paying $84M to firm employing the husband of Katie Telford, the PMO's chief of staff, to manage the rent assistance aid program. "Peerreviewededitor (talk) 22:19, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

C-17 Hercules Comparison (limiting capacity by seating vs. standing-room spots)

The comparison of C-17 Hercules aircraft (an air-bus usually used to transport tanks and armoured personnel carriers) is relevant. The U.S. jampacked their C-17s with over 800 passengers (mostly standing), so that they could fit more people onto one airplane. While Canada only allowed as many people (188) on board as there are seatbelts. This is like sending out the lifeboats on the Titanic at 1/4 capacity. The articles specifically make this comparison, so it is not original research. https://torontosun.com/news/national/afghan-american-troops-turn-away-canadian-evacuees-at-kabul-airport https://globalnews.ca/news/8128377/canada-evacuation-flights-kabul-airport/Peerreviewededitor (talk) 00:07, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

He personaly said no standing room?--Moxy-

11:02, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Mr. Trudeau is the de facto commander-in-chief (technically, the Queen of England is the commander in chief, but in practice, she plays no active role in Canadian military operations). As this happened on his watch, this means that Prime Minister Trudeau is responsible and accountable for Canadian military operations, including this evacuation mission.Peerreviewededitor (talk) 12:29, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Sending a transport plane standing room only is not like sending a lifeboat full of people, it is like sending a lifeboat double or more it's capacity. While it does get more people out of Afghanistan, it does come with it's own risks, which is why it's not common practice for the United States. We have worked for the past several days to get family friends out of Afghanistan who worked with the Canadian government, so I understand the concern and we are heartbroken these contacts are now trapped there. But this is a major reach in terms of scandal by Justin Trudeau. Certainly Afghanistan is a serious and complex issue and its rapid fall has been disheartening, but this is not really a Trudeau issue/scandal of note at this point and time and does not look worthy of inclusion to an encyclopedia. Save it for a blog. Words in the Wind(talk) 17:05, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

C-17 Hercules Aircraft are designed to transport tanks and APCs (with a total weight capacity of up to 265,352 kilograms) They can literally support the weight of thousands of people. The seats for personnel are located at the sides of the plane, and face inwards. Just look at this picture: https://theglobalherald.com/news/global-national-aug-20-2021-crisis-in-afghanistan-follows-trudeau-on-campaign-trail/ The 1st Canadian flight had only 188 people. The second, only 106 people. The U.S. flight (same aircraft) had 823. Think about it. If you read the sources: https://globalnews.ca/news/8128377/canada-evacuation-flights-kabul-airport/, https://torontosun.com/news/national/afghan-american-troops-turn-away-canadian-evacuees-at-kabul-airport, they specifically criticize the PM for not filling the airplanes. So, it's not my personal opinion. It's what the news media in Canada is talking about right now.

Here is the line I would like to add, "However, Members of the United States Air Mobility Command were able to cram over 800 people into the same Hercules-style aircraft." I am open to rewording this line.Peerreviewededitor (talk) 22:51, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Peerrevieweditor suggestions

I see that Peerrevieweditor has a number of edits requesting the submission of additional complaints or controversies surrounding Justin Trudeau or something that happened while he was in government. Misplaced Pages requires WP:NPOV and during times of an election we must really adhere to this as much as possible. PRE did point out that I am a Liberal supporter, which I am, but I do not actively edit these pages or pages of other political leaders with pro and con edits. I do revert vandalism or other inauthentic edits. I notice that peerreviewededitor has entirely positive edits for past CPC leaders and only negative edits for the Liberal Party of Canada related articles. We must be very careful of inauthentic editing and electioneering not only now on Wikpedia which is an online encyclopedia, but especially during election times. Words in the Wind(talk) 16:53, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Apologies to Words in the Wind for the thread hijack, but this provides a convenient place to respond to Peerrevieweditors proposals all at once. I think most of the proposals are too much detail for this broad biographical article. Many of the sources provided did not discuss Trudeau's personal involvement. Of them all, I am the most inclined to support adding some criticism of Trudeau's handling of COVID-19. As it stands, the section looks fairly promotional and is unsourced (I am about to add a tag). It would be reasonable to add something like, "Trudeau was criticized for an early lack of PPE, investment in a failed Chinese vaccine partnership, and ", though I'm not sure those are DUE when it comes to RS coverage of Trudeau and COVID. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 17:31, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

It's no hijack, feel free to comment. Those additions seem fine to me, at least a criticism of low stockpiles of PPE. It terms of CanSino, I am not sure how I would write that. Again it seems a little bit speculative, most of the links to this information appear from National Post related articles running pressers from O'Toole. Perhaps it would have to read he was criticized by the opposition or O'Toole of focusing on this vaccine. I am not sure how to focus on it though, since it is complicated. It was a Canada-Chinese cooperative to work on a locally manufactured vaccine that did not prove as effective as Pfizer or Moderna. I am not sure how to put that succinctly or it if fits in the article, but I would leave that up to the other editors. Words in the Wind(talk) 17:51, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi Words in the Wind. Just to be clear, I have, added positive additions to the articles of: NDP leader Jagmeet Singh, as well as former Green Party Leader Elizabeth May as far back as Oct 8th 2019. The past few days have been the only time I have posted anything "negative" to any article about any politician ever. So, I don't appreciate the accusation that I'm promoting one party over another. This is certainly not the case. As far as sources are concerned, I added: Global News x 2, the Globe and Mail x 2, McLeans Magazine, the National Post x 2, CNN, Canada.ca x 2, City TV News, the Toronto Sun, and the CBC. Out of the two National Post articles, one of them is from before O'Toole was elected leader of the CPC. Therefore, it is not accurate to suggest that most of the information comes from the National Post as "pressers from O'Toole". I would appreciate, out of respect, for any future discussions to be directed towards the content of the proposed additions.Peerreviewededitor (talk) 22:11, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Lower casing in infobox

A discussion at ANI, potentially affecting this article. Requires input. GoodDay (talk) 22:48, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

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