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Balrog

Can't we just say balrog?--Jack Upland (talk) 02:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

I think a succinct and accurate description of what they are/referred to as is justified and not unreasonable, especially as it is lifted directly from the page. I looked for 'fire wizzard' in the index, couldn't find it.Halbared (talk) 12:43, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Personally, I find these discussions of the nature of Tolkien's creatures tedious. They are fictional creations.--Jack Upland (talk) 05:09, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Good for you, feller!Halbared (talk) 08:47, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

You are in the wrong place. 24.4.136.172 (talk) 18:47, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

You are in the wrong universe.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:29, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Lord of the Rings

Is there a citation to say this means Sauron? It could mean the One Ring itself, lord of all the other rings. 24.4.136.172 (talk) 18:46, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Yes, see Talk:The Lord of the Rings/Archive 9 -- Elphion (talk) 23:53, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Further to that discussion, there is a parallelism between Frodo and Sauron. Both are missing a finger — the story of Nine-fingered Frodo is how Sam terms it. And they both lose their finger in roughly the same place. The number 9 is emphasised, and this was before the Beatles. There are nine Black Riders, and nine members of the Fellowship. The word "nine" is related to the word "new" as a linguist like Tolkien would have known. The ring-cycle of rebirth. The Shire parallels Mordor, at opposite corners of Middle-earth. They are isolated communities. One is surrounded by a hedge; one is surrounded by mountains. Bag End parallels Bara-dur. Fill in the blanks. There is a seminal paper about this that my roommate hasn't published yet.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:46, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Stop editwarring on the hatnote for LOTR

This is a warning to User:Chiswick Chap and/or other users, that a hatnote is necessary and in accordance with Misplaced Pages:Hatnote#Ambiguous_term_that_redirects_to_an_unambiguously_named_article, that repeatedly removing valid content without any reason is vandalism, and that showing no sign of communication by themselves but accusing another user of editwarring straightaway is uncivil behaviour.

Reverts without any reason: .

No discussion initiated on this page or on Talk:LOTR by these users.

Uncivil accusation: .

These users have not editted LOTR either, so it remains as a redirect to this page, which makes a hatnote necessary.--RZuo (talk) 11:53, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Dear RZuo, I am afraid you are mistaken or confused. You have three times attempted to add a redirect for the phrase "Leave outside the Immigration Rules" which one might expect to abbreviate to LOIR, were it to be abbreviated at all. A google search for "LOTR" does not turn up any page with that acronym and phrase in the first 10 lists of 10 pages; it turns up many pages of Lord of the Rings. There is no Misplaced Pages page named "Leave outside the Immigration Rules"; and the page you linked to, "Leave to enter", contains neither the words "Leave outside the Immigration Rules", nor the acronym LOTR, nor anything that would stand for that acronym. The gov.uk page on "Immigration Rules" cited in that article, needless to say, does not contain any of those three things either.

Further, you have accused me of incivility by placing a mildly-worded informal warning notice, above. It was not incivil in any way; indeed I could readily have placed a formal warning instead; and your action in accusing others of incivility is itself unhelpful. Further, the other editor reverted you properly. I do hope, given the amount of time it is now taking to deal with your case, that you will accept gracefully that your proposed hatnote may well not be justified in this instance, and that other editors have (all) acted in good faith. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:22, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Agree with Chiswick Chap; I see little justification for including the redirect. — Czello 13:35, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

The hatnote is absolutely unnecessary, because the real point of contention here is that LOTR could also stand for "Leave outside the Immigration Rules" within a British legal context in addition to the more internationally known acronym for Lord of the Rings. So, undo the redirect, and turn LOTR into a disambiguation page. Except I notice that someone tried to do it back in January 2021, but that it appeared to have been reverted right away by another experienced editor. PS: The article for Leave to enter which the hatnote is supposed to point to is in a terrible state with little improvement over the last 15 years or so of its existence, so you might want to polish that up too. Haleth (talk) 14:18, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Well if that's so then that'll be the best answer. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:38, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Personally, I would oppose changing LOTR to a disambiguation page without at least a few decent examples of people actually using the acronym to refer to this other subject. SamStrongTalks (talk) 14:49, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/what-is-leave-outside-the-rules/ Free Movement.org.uk: What is Leave Outside the Rules?

ICS Legal: Leave Outside the Rules

HongKongWatch.org: Update: New advice from the Home Office for BNOs currently living in the UK

OTB Legal "They allowed BNO nationals to arrive in the UK and ask for ‘leave outside the rules’ or ‘LOTR’ on arrival." etc. etc. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:55, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

sigh it appears it is used in the official UK documentation. Carry on. SamStrongTalks (talk) 15:13, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Tolkien's dislike of the term “novel”.

Why not remove the word “novel” (keeping the footnote), make “epic” the noun and call it a “high-fantasy epic”?Merry medievalist (talk) 04:20, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Not sure he thought 'epic' any better, but key point here is that a million IPs will add the word 'novel' straight back again as they 'know' that's the thing. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 05:42, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Influence on games

At the moment, Chiswick Chap is on a crusade to purge all mentions of Magic: The Gathering from relevant sections of articles about things that influenced, or are featured in, that game. No rational reason for this has been given except "not a list". If Chiswick Chap wants to cut down on the number of listed games, that's fine, but let's start by cutting the ones that most people have never heard of. The Misplaced Pages article on MtG says it had 35 million players (current, not the total number of people who had ever played) in a fairly recent year. By contrast, the entire Ultima series put together had sold a whopping 2 million copies by 1997, the peak of its popularity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.70.13.107 (talk) 10:25, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

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