Talk:2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks

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A few points

First of all, some of the English language sources that I've reviewed do not state that ONLY Hezbollah militants were injured. Secondly, the "Background" section contains multiple past attacks involving Hezbollah, Lebanon and Israel, while many of the sources have nothing to do with the pager explosions (not including the defense official issue). This is likely a violation of WP:SYNTH, where editors try to connect multiple events together because they believe the events are related even when no reliable source made a connection. Nythar (💬-🍀) 15:07, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

There is currently no indication that the car explosion in Syria had anything to do with the pager explosions in Lebanon. Nythar (💬-🍀) 15:20, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Aside from the fact that civilians were injured, we also know that a girl was killed. But this keeps getting removed. Why? VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 17:21, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
I mention it was a claim by Hezbollah, not even by the Lebanese Ministry of Health. 2.55.163.43 (talk) 17:33, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

until further confirmation may be best to wait on that claim or perhaps add "Hezbollah also alleged a 9 year old child was killed by one of the pagers but this claim has not yet been confirmed" though probably best to just wait Ticketthedog (talk) 19:01, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 17 September 2024

It has been proposed in this section that 2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks be renamed and moved to 2024 Lebanon–Syria pager explosions.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

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2024 Lebanon pager explosions → 2024 Lebanon–Syria pager explosions – Reports on pager explosions in Syria with multiple confirmed deaths: Times of Israel Prodrummer619 (talk) 16:27, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose – It appears that most sources are focusing on Lebanon as this was the primary site of the explosion, with significantly less in Syria. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 18:04, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Support – while most explosions were in Lebanon, that there were explosions in Syria is still very important politically. RedAuburn (talk) 18:10, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose – it appears the overwhelming majority of injuries took place inside Lebanon. Reliable sources report 3,000 injuries in Lebanon, and only 14 in Syria (BBC). These numbers may change, but as it stands this seems primarily a Lebanese event – which is exactly how it's being discussed and headlined in most reliable sources. Including Syria in the infobox and lead is enough, IMHO. GhostOfNoMan 18:18, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Neutral – I would propose a rename to 2024 Hezbollah pager explosions (or similar), since that seems to be the central association between the explosions. Nearly half of those killed were in Syria. Eastwood Park and strabane (talk) 18:38, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - I tend to agree with GhostOfNoMan; the overwhelming majority of this incident happened within Lebanon. Whizkin (talk) 18:49, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

It should be renamed 2024 Hezbollah pager explosions because it were Hezbollah's pagers that exploded (not restricting geographic range). MathKnight 19:01, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Support - Although the majority of the explosions occurred in Lebanon, the number of explosions in Syria was more than a handful (so far it's in the double-digits), and (as of this writing) the death toll in Syria is similar to the death toll in Lebanon. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 19:03, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Jerusalem Post reports that "operatives" are also wounded in Iraq (link). Thuresson (talk) 19:14, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
The Jerusalem Post does not report a specific number of explosions in Iraq, nor any injuries or deaths in Iraq. Therefore, I would treat all information about explosions in Iraq as "unconfirmed" until we get more specific information. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 19:35, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - There are relatively fewer mentions of explosions in Syria in the media and the target remains Lebanese Hezbollah (not to be confused with Iraqi Hezbollah). The fact that Lebanese Hezbollah has a presence in Syria and as such some pager explosions also happened in Syria, is insignificant and likely a coincidence caused by the explosions being indiscriminate. RisingTzar (talk) 19:48, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Wait - We should rename it as "Hezbollah pagers explosions". There were explosions reported in Iraq as well, but we should wait a bit I think. Givibidou (talk) 19:55, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Strong oppose for this proposed title; the overwhelming majority of the pagers were in Lebanon, as RS coverage has proven. I strongly support this article's move to the title of 2024 Lebanon pagers attack; this is a state-terrorist attack, not an "explosion." Makeandtoss (talk) 20:00, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

@Makeandtoss Apart from Twitter who else is calling it a state-terrorist attack? Prodrummer619 (talk) 20:05, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Scholars will eventually describe it for what it is, a state-terrorist attack. Aside from the description, the proposed title of 2024 Lebanon pagers attack is currently supported by RS: Makeandtoss (talk) 20:16, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Timeline of explosions

Referenced Reuters article states that the explosions lasted for an hour, not simultaneously. 12.196.187.18 (talk) 17:16, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

I am sure this will be narrowed down precisely, but the earliest tweet i've seen so far mentioning the explosions was at 13:01 UTC. / ETA 13:00 --Milowent • 17:19, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

I suspect we'll be waiting a while for clarity given the pace of reporting, but at the moment I'm seeing reports of an initial wave of near-simultaneous explosions, followed by a smaller number of explosions occurring over roughly one hour. (It would make sense for Israel to aim for simultaneity; maintaining the element of surprise for maximum effect.) I'll review the available sources. GhostOfNoMan 18:06, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

lithium batteries

We're currently speculating that the lithium batteries exploded, but that's contradicted by the cited AP article which says: “A lithium ion battery fire is one thing, but I’ve never seen one explode like that. It looks like a small explosive charge”

Maybe we should remove the speculation about lithium batteries. Uhoj (talk) 19:23, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

People are also claiming "PETN" has been used, based on the 1996 operation with the exploding phone I would assume they would use RDX as it's proven with reliable electronic detonation.

https://x.com/vcdgf555/status/1836108274716021204

It just seems strange to me that you would make your detonation potentially unreliable by not using electronic detonation that could be targeted with specific POCSAG pager device IDs. ILSupplyChainEnjoyer (talk) 19:36, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

https://x.com/charles_lister/status/1836109363968176175

I'm skeptical of the claims relating to overheating the battery to initiate detonation solely because it seems like a horrible choice if you are already capable of putting explosives into the pager. ILSupplyChainEnjoyer (talk) 19:38, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

We have a source that mentions lithium batteries as source for the explosion. Until we have information to rule this out, it should stay. PS. Reports are that the exploding pager is a "Gold Alpha Pager 924" from "Apollo Systems". This device is powered by AAA batteries. The compromised device would still need to work until detonated, which speaks in favor of a battery explosion. If the AAA batteries are lihium ion and compromised to e.g. be made without pressure relief vents, and to start a thermal runaway if their charging current exceeds a given threshold, then this could well lead to the observed effect. At least, this cannot be ruled out at this stage. Lklundin (talk) 19:57, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

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