Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Badanagram (talk | contribs) at 14:16, 17 October 2010 (→Admin behaviour). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Untitled 2011 AMC television series

Odd that I am saying this being the goober who originally punched it delete but good call. Also a good example of why we should be careful when quoting "pseudo-policy" like WP:HAMMER in AFDs. (see here and here) --Ron Ritzman (talk) 13:09, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

ITN for Gotthard Base Tunnel

On 15 October 2010, In the news was updated with a news item that involved the article Gotthard Base Tunnel, which you recently nominated and substantially updated. If you know of another interesting news item involving a recently created or updated article, then please suggest it on the candidates page.

--Nice work, thanks. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:55, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually, the tunnel just completed today.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_switzerland_world_s_longest_tunnel —Preceding unsigned comment added by Leifanator (talk • contribs) 21:17, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, we need to be careful: it's complete in the sense of being bored through, but not yet operational, so it may well at the same time be described as "completed" and "under construction".  Sandstein  21:20, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Single Use account blanking info

Question

With prevailing conditions in place, in your professional opinion, am I permitted to edit the following article: Ararat rebellion? Thanks.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 01:08, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

What conditions? Sorry, I don't remember the exact situation of all people I've ever interacted with. If you are subject to any sanctions, please link to them.  Sandstein  07:35, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Thisa one, --Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 18:54, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

This seems to involve a territory (Ağrı Province) close to Armenia and which was involved in Armenia-related conflicts, so, if you want to be on the safe side, don't edit it. But the final decision is up to the admin who decides whether or not to enforce the topic ban.  Sandstein  19:04, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Gotcha.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 19:16, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Racism

Hello. I made a request at WP:WQA. I think comments made by User:Taron Saharyan violate not only civility but also Arbitration enforcements about AA conflict. Here is the translation of his comment (to be objective I made it by Google translate without any change)
"I am sorry for you. I feel like a doctor who watches over the dying lab rat who wants to vybratsya of the cage. And this, of course, applies not only to you personally. You (the Azeris) bigot, bigotry, lies very deep in your blood. You can not make a decision, you can not watch over a part. Why? That's why you igrirmidord sarydzhaly and that's why you Tatar you - a backward periphery of the Muslim East. Your (Azerbaijan) uches - to blow up himself, or be shot by civilization. You are a thief, you're fine kormanschik, your national and civilizational status is extremely low. You are cannon fodder to "heroes" of the same level. You are a nomad, and it is your personal history of the tribe. But the most beautiful thing that you'll never understand, because the gene is an integral part of your mind all the above-mentioned circuit." --Quantum666 (talk) 16:16, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

OK. This should be examined at WP:WQA, not here.  Sandstein  16:21, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Taron Saharyan

Please see translation of more extremist and racist remarks by one editor here .  Anastasia Bukhantseva  01:40, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

You'll have to ask the admin who blocked (only) for a week, not me. I'm not going to override another admin's block for stuff that happened before the block.  Sandstein  07:12, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Admin behaviour

User talk:86.11.254.79

I note your comments and I offer the following:

I believe This Misplaced Pages admin User:Toddst1 is violating WP:GAME (by following the rules to their advantage when they feel like it) and WP:ADMIN (by personally involving themselves e.g. making AFD's out of spite (as already suggested) and blocking me because I disagreed with their behaviour) and WP:HA by Wikihounding - which is an unusual step for an admin to take. For example, despite it being very early in the morning, this administrator made a knee-jerk reaction when I posted something on my userspace User Talk:Badanagram disagreeing with his tactics. The fact that this admin did this within minutes of my response shows that this admin was actively toting for a reason to block me whilst giving the impression to others that this was passive.

Although according you yourself I did not address the reason for the block - I would like someone to review the Admins recent decisions made and also make the admin community aware of his over-the-top behaviour in relation to an isolated incident that only required a deletion of the comment in this instance. Instead this admin decided that I had sockpuppets, I had created my IP address to be abusive to him (I made one comment, also creating an IP address as a sockpuppet makes no sense, the IP address is static in this case) and making AFD listings on one of my articles, blocking my IP, making boxes linking ALL my identities DESPITE my change of name request being accepted for very good reason then changing his reasons for the block when he realised it was too weak - to add insult to injury the admin bullied me in to accepting some kind of deal on my userpage as if he was some kind of LAPD cop!

This admin was completely over the top in exercising his admin tools and I do not beleive he is fit to hold these tools if he continues to abuse them in this manner. Behaviour like this will make most casual editors like myself believe that Misplaced Pages is nothing more than a meritocracy Badanagram (talk) 18:51, 16 October 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Badanagram (talk • contribs)

This is not very useful since it does not contain any diff as evidence of the alleged misconduct by Toddst1. It is also rather confusing. I'll ask Toddst1 to comment on this. It would be interesting to know why your apparent IP, 86.11.254.79, was blocked for a month and your user account was not.  Sandstein  19:41, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes it would be very interesting - the reason being is that this would expose the Admin for his apparent ability to apparently behave himself impecabbly whilst blocking the IP but then following wiki conventions when it comes to my userpage.. I don't know how to list diffs as evidence. However that should not be a hinderance to me reporting wrongdoing by an admin. Unless you're all like this...... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Badanagram (talk • contribs) 19:56, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

(e/c) Sure. I had asked Badanagram to take this to ANI, but s/he is apparently WP:CANVASSING admins. Here's the nutshell:

• Badanagram had logged out to make some snarky/WP:PA type comments is probably the most relevant.
• A little looking around turned up evidence of the obvious ipsock
• I issued both an NPA and sock warning to both the IP and Badanagram, posted a confirmed sock tag on both the IP and Badanagram with the above link as evidence. No blocks were issued. I also redirected Badanagram's old named acount to his new one.
• Several weeks later, more ipsock activity showed up and I blocked the IP, not Badanagram.
• Then Badanagram removed the confirmed sock tag on his user page and I told him, per WP:Blanking that is one of the few things he couldn't remove. He mentioned there were circumstances around his name change, which I researched and it turns out his employer found out about his old username and was the reason for his change.
• Since that history linking the three accounts was the main evidence for proving the sock tag, I was reluctant to remove it but told the editor if he made a an edit claimed the IP, I would replace the evidence he objected to with the new diff (removing his old account Pigeonshouse from the evidence). He did and I changed the sock evidence. I also removed the redirect from his old account, Pigeonshouse. I thought I was helping the guy out.
• Apparently he's a bit upset after the fact.

Toddst1 (talk) 20:08, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

The only thing I am upset about is the fact that you have used bullying behaviour and suggested I am a sockpuppet and put several boxes around my account over an isolated incident. Badanagram (talk) 20:20, 16 October 2010 (UTC) I really don't like the fact that my lack of WP knowledge is being used by you to single me out as a target for online bullying Badanagram (talk) 20:20, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

And the only reason I've not used ANI or whatever it's called and appealed directly to other admins is because from what I have looked at, you yourself patrol that noticeboard and have posted comments in order to dissuade editors from taking things up properly on there - this means I do not feel confident that I could post there and the fact that you offered it as an avenue makes me feel like you have a group of admins on there ready to take your side no matter what - I just want all this stupid stuff caused by one incident taken off my userpage Badanagram (talk) 20:53, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Badanagram, stop throwing accusations of bad faith around, it does not help you one bit. Toddst1, is there anything that makes you believe that Badanagram's failure to log in was an intentional attempt at sockpuppetry rather than simply an oversight?  Sandstein  22:04, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Good question: It seemed like obvious obfuscation when he didn't sign his post but on further review he did sign this next one, . You may have a point there that it could have been inadvertant edits without logging in. I did leave a note on badanagram's talk page about not logging in but the next comment was also from the IP which led to me blocking it. Toddst1 (talk) 23:29, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! Do you think that we could WP:AGF and write off this whole issue as a misunderstanding due also to, er, less than optimal communication skills on the part of Badanagram? This would allow us to remove the blocks and sockpuppet tags and deescalate the drama.  Sandstein  23:35, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Right, I'll try and write this down as reasonably as I can without panicking like I was yesterday and include a timeline from my POV:

If you look at my contribution history, you will see that I very rarely make edits to WP. In fact the IP address had only previously been used to blank my old userpage (legitimately) before I made the less than helpful remarks that Toddts1 is referring to - and was an isolated incident, I dunno maybe I was drunk or just p£"$^ed off that day.

I have been asked to not assume bad faith - when after the event:

A warning comment akin to "You thought you could get away with it didn't you, well I'm watching you...." was thrown at me here.

He then obviously saw that I'd written an article that he could passive-aggressively do an AFD request on here

An attempt to 'out' my online presence on the page that holds the IP address - for people other than just myself, although I doubt the others would have any inclination to edit WP - was made

When I asked him (on that IP) to stop using his admin tools in such a manner as to hound me at 6:38am yesterday , a response was given almost immediately at 6:49 by blocking that IP (I can't see any other justification for it than pure spite on the part of the admin, disagreeing with an admins attitude isn't a reason for blocking as far as I'm aware).

The admin then went back in to passive mode from aggressive mode and started picking holes in any other edits that I made and defending his use of admin powers to , when he realised he was being unreasonable, he dangled a carrot re: the other identify if I admitted to wrong doing but still keeping his other impose sanctions on the page . The fact of the matter is, it wasn't the fact that I logged out, it was more that I neglected to log in, as it were. I'm sorry if my comment that started this all apparently upset Toddst1 but since then, the fact that he is an admin and his actions (requiring a high level of knowledge and experience of the site and sometimes the use of admin tools) to apparently carry out some online campaign against me since then have made me feel very uncomfortable about using the site any more - as is made clear on my user page and I do not think it is fair that other admins feel able to treat this less seriously because I am not an experienced Misplaced Pages editor. Badanagram (talk) 03:02, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually I tell a lie, I've just had a look that IP address was used to make minor edits to other pages, I added Interact and Rotaract to the list of Youth organisations and I substituted Farnham for Fareham (people get confused between the two, despite them being 40 miles apart) - how that can be considered an abusive 'sockpuppet' of myself is beyond me. The block itself doesn't concern me as I'm moving out of this place soon, it is more the unprincipled and sinister behaviour of the admin since then Badanagram (talk) 04:07, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Badanagram, I'm trying to help you resolve your situation here, but you're absolutely not helping. It is very unlikely that you will get the resolution you want without the agreement of Toddst1, and your constantly assuming sinister motives on his part will not help bring that about. Admins can make errors of judgment just like everybody else, but as community-trusted veteran contributors to this project they are very unlikely to actively want to make somebody else's life miserable just for the sake of it. Any further comment you might make in this situation should be very firmly grounded in that assumption. And if you really just want to leave Misplaced Pages then please just do so, stop commenting here and let me spend my own time more usefully. Thanks,  Sandstein  07:08, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, I don't really know what else to say - I can't help how I feel as the whole experience really did unnerve me when I went to Misplaced Pages to find something (on that IP which I hadn't used for a couple of weeks) and found all of this stuff had happened - apparently over course of a Sunday evening in October - over a comment I left 3 months ago and had forgotten about - and from there, because I was already upset, it just got worse! I'm just trying to 'clear my name' as it were. Which is why I offered my POV. Maybe Toddst1 didn't mean for it to be like that but it does feel to me as if my 'Education' and the lengths the admin went to over one comment went OTT and the assumption made by that admin that I am a habitual offender of the WP Guidelines around personal attacks and sockpuppeting, which is what unnerved me as I know that not to be true. Maybe I should just forget about it but what if I get more free time later on in life and try and start editing articles properly like I used to? I feel as if anything I put on there from now on will not be 'trusted' because of the boxes all over my page which I can't remove so it's sort of hanging over me Badanagram (talk) 09:47, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

(outdent)(talk page stalker) After about 15 minutes of reading, I'd suggest that the reason the editor did not take it to WP:ANI is WP:BOOMERANG - I tried to AGF until the ends of the earth on this one, but the actions, attitude and behaviour doesn't permit it for long. Badanagram is fortunate to not find himself blocked for WP:SOCK, so that appears to be the biggest WP:AGF right now. Kudos to Toddst1 for that level of AGF. There's no way - and no reason - to "clear your name" unless you intend to act poorly or WP:SOCK in the future. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:01, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

OK I think I'm just going to leave this alone as I'm getting nowhere. I raised a genuine concern over this and I don't intend to act poorly. I'm not sure how on one hand it's not ok for me to make assumptions but admins are then free to make their own. If that's how admins react to genuine concerns then that is how it works I guess - but I have acknowledged that I made a mistake. I was sort of hoping that the admin may come to the same conclusion in the fact that he unnerved me with his decision making. It seems I have two choices here 1. Carry on using Badanagram with the block notice up there until the project finishes in whatever decade that happens to be in the future or 2. If I want to make contributions say when I'm 40 or 50 but without being associated with this username and the block notice - I don't think I'd be doing things properly under WP:SOCK. I think I've spoent enough time on this now and will have to forget it and deal with any issues re: editing Misplaced Pages in the future and live with the fact that this one mistake can cause so much trouble Badanagram (talk) 11:03, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually one more thing. Up until now I've been happy to contribute to the Wikimedia Foundation (in small amounts each year), however I have decided not to continue to do this in the future due to the reasons listed on my user page - not that any of you probably care. It appears from reading WP:ANI and the contribution history of some of the admins that have contributed to this discussion so far - that you are so disconnected from reality that you have turned Misplaced Pages in to a 'computer game' where you 'win' against real people and somehow you think you can 'play' with people in this fantasy RPG game forever. Well have arbitrary fun on your 'World of Misplaced Pages' - be warned, you will receive a huge reality check when this community funded project eventually becomes unsustainable and your barnstars and 1,000,000 edits and league/status tables of users blocked etc become nothing more than a part of the faded history of the internet at the beginning of the 21st century like IRC and newsgroups did at the end of the last century. I say this as a former teenage geek who realised there are better things to spend my time on than people with aspirations to become the 'ultimate sysop' Badanagram (talk) 14:16, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Ayyubid dynasty

User:Karimoglu has changed referenced information concerning the Ayyubid dynasty. Changing Kurdish to Turkish despite two requests to use the talk page and ignoring evidence I posted on User:Karimoglu's talk page. Can you inform this individual how to edit properly? Thanks. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:20, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

I've issued an edit warring warning. Shouls the other user continue to revert, you can use WP:AN3. I recommend to request a WP:3O or find some other way to get third party input about the content issue, as you too should not continue reverting.  Sandstein  22:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)