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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by John Quiggin (talk | contribs) at 22:39, 19 March 2006 (→Started POV). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Someone with a minute of spare time, please look over the following

The first line of the "Studies of Passive Smoking" section has some sort of typo and/or vandalism. I'm not sure what it's supposed to say, but there is definitely something wrong. Cotixan 05:44, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Which is better passive smoking or second hand smoking?

Passive smoking is known to be called second hand smoke. I made searches in WHO web site. When I searched with the words "passive smoking," 3000 articles were found. With the words "second hand smoking," 7480 articles were found. And when I searched with the words "passive smoke," 2590 articles were found. On the other hand, with the words "second hand smoke," 5080 articles were found.

Is the words "second hand smoking" better for the title of this page than "passive smoking" ?

Criticism removed

Looks like someone (68.100.238.219) is trying to remove any criticism on ETS science from this page. This needs to be a balanced page, not an anti-smoking ad!

Bullshit?

Penn & Teller: Bullshit had a rather interesting take on Second Hand Smoke (Session 1 Episode 5 -- occassionally aired on SHOUTCast Internet TV, search for "Bullshit"), debunking various claims (in particular, stating that the EPA study was revealed to have been made up on the spot and the WHO study showing the opposite conclusion of what the press releas claimed). While I don't think an American TV show is the most trustworthy source of information, they seemed to have a point.

Anybody know whether the facts have changed since the original airing of that show?

Since the risks of active smoking are commonly blown out of proportion (which, of course, doesn't make it non-harmful to the smokers) I wouldn't be surprised if most of the anti-smoking hysteria is really only based on strong feelings against smoking (i.e. people who don't like smoking and feel offended by other people smoking).

PS: I'm a non-smoker, but that doesn't make me as much of a psycho as some of the 'Merkins that have apparently started the whole anti-passive-smoking trend. -- Ashmodai 11:35, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

NPOV

There is a very selected reading of the evidence in this article. Many physician organizations have spoken-out again it and there is broad agreement that it is associated with harm, both from epidemiological perspective and a toxicological one. The article looks like it was written by a tobacco lobbyist. Nephron 06:26, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I've deleted some of the most clearly unsourced and NPOV claims, but the article needs a lot more work.JQ 12:44, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Started POV

When I first saw this article, it was completely from the POV of anti-smoking, with factual errors, selectively omitted informtion, and gross POV misinterpretation of study results showing a basic lack of understanding of statistics. The Osteen decision was derided by inserting the fact that he was previously a tabacco lobbyist, although his neutrality can't be honestly questioned since he has also ruled against the tobacco industry in another important case (whether it is a drug that can be regulated by the FDA). It also had a "Tobacco industry vs. everyone else" tone.

We are now in the process of achieving a balance, although there was apparently a reactionary swing in the other direction. It appears there is now a swing the other way since the paragraph on the WHO study showing no significant link has been cut.

I'll work on it when I find the time. I think the page needs to show the issue isn't settled, and show how agenda-driven studies are on both sides. Should probably put the studies with the basic criticism and facts in one place, and show (but not argue) the debate, naming all the players.

The claim that "the issue isn't settled" should be supported by reference to scientific studies, not the vagaries of US Court Decisions. The Osteen stuff should be in a section on political controversy. Certainly the Osteen decision fits into a "Tobacco industry vs everyone else" view, since the case was part of a campaign by the tobacco industry. JQ 03:11, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Osteen’s decision wasn’t some "vagarie of the court." It was a very specific 92 page document outlining significant fraud by the EPA.

Osteen's decision was overturned, so I would say "vagaries of US court decisions" is an apt description of the process as a whole, whichever side of it you take. JQ 22:39, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Politically Charged Terms

Expressions like "second-hand smoke" and "passive smoking" are politically charged terms. The preferred and politically neutral expression is "environmental tobacco smoke". In fact, I'd say much of the article rightly belongs under "Environmental Tobacco Smoke", and that the Passive Smoking article should be a discussion of the term itself, along with the other politically charged terms like Second-Hand Smoke, etc... The way it is set up now, ETS is, rightly so, a disambiguation page, but the link to "Environmental Tobacco Smoke" redirects you to "Tobacco Smoking", which doesn't discuss ETS at all. It seems to me that there should be an "Environmental Tobacco Smoke" page, containing the article now entitled "Passive Smoking", with a link to the political terms under the "Passive Smoking" page, and discussing them as such. After all, "Environmental Tobacco Smoke" is the preferred, neutral, "scientific" term, if you will, for what we're talking about. As it is, it's politically slanted in the anti-smoking direction.