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Neutrality, anyone?
Is any other intelligent person besides myself bothered by the fact that an experimental/originally-sourced "psychologist" is quoted as defining our usage of the word "denier"? Take out the Freud definition of "denier", or quit using and linking the term for people who QUESTION the official story of their government. Neutrality, indeed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.93.255.7 (talk) 07:51, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Treatment industry
The word Denial is the "treatment industry's" favorite word. Used most when a client tells them they are INSANE and a FRAUD, scamming billions from people who forced into the treatment scams of the USA by the (Il)legal system. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.111.134.207 (talk) 16:45, 29 January 2009 (UTC) The following paragraph was added to the article:
"It is important to note what makes denial denial and not just refusal to admit to or accept a truth or fact rests in the degree of individual's awareness of the existence of the truth or fact. In denial, an GO FUK UR SELF see or is mostly unconscious of existence of the truth or fact. The choice to refuse reality, then, is unconscious as well. Refusal to admit to or accept a truth or fact differs from denial in that the individual recognizes or is conscious of the existence of the truth or fact but consciously refuses to accept it as such."
The phrasing of this paragraph makes it difficult to tell just what is being claimed. It sounds like the distinction is being drawn between a person who is only denying the truth to others, and a person who is denying it to themselves as well. I am not sure this distinction is accurate. Comments? -- Antaeus Feldspar 17:25, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
I think it is a difficult paragraph to follow, overall. I think in a way refusal to admit or accept is actually a specific part of denial. You could argue about consious and unconcsious forms of denial, but both are denial IMHO. --ChrisEmerge 19:52, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Types of denial
A person that enjoys a joint of pot on Friday night and gets caught is auto matically labeled a DRUG ADDICT and needs rehabilitaion. When the person says they are not an addict and smokes on Friday night, the rehab clinic says they are in DENIAL. Just because pot is illegal "because the government says so" does not mean its use means that you are addicted to anything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.111.134.207 (talk) 16:42, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
Added Types of Denial to article. Comments? -- --ChrisEmerge 19:52, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
- Could you give sources for this information, such as books, journals, etc.? How widely accepted are these concepts?
- --George100 00:27, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Here are a few references, the information on the page is a compilation of many different approaches to denial:
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/ID22a-scott.pdf
http://ezinearticles.com/?How-To-Deal-With-Denial&id=679
http://www.worldviewweekend.com/secure/cwnetwork/article.php?&ArticleID=844
--ChrisEmerge 14:50, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Denial is not always conscious
Denial also is a subconscious mechinisum our mind uses to block the pain associated with accepting the truth. Example, The Mother of a young child that suddenly dies does not accept the death and may go days, weeks, or longer behaving as if the death never happened. 75.213.169.199 20:25, 26 April 2007 (UTC)Abner Lozoya75.213.169.199 20:25, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Denial of Christ
In the Middle Ages, people were routinely accused of denying Christ if they did not believe in the dogmas and doctrines of the Church. It seems that the logic of denial has some kind of religious origin, which is to deny either a person's existence, or to deny somone else's religious beliefs. ADM (talk) 22:11, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Denialism
There have suggestions on the talk page of the article denialism that that page should be merged into this one see for example the section Talk:Denialism#Not in the Oxford English Dictionary. The the article denialism is currently under an AfD (See Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Denialism (2nd nomination)). One possibility is that the text could be merged into this article, but if this were to happen then this article would have to be refocused to look at denial more broadly than it currently does. -- PBS (talk) 09:41, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Succinct definition
There are two forms of mental illness. In one, the person hears or sees things that aren't there--called psychosis. In the other the person doesn't hear or see things that are there--called denial. More on this later. --Margaret9mary (talk) 22:57, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
Bunker Mentality Merge
I am not sure if this is the correct place to merge Bunker mentality. I am no expert psychologist or sociologist. But the page bunker mentality page probably would fit better under a page that explains the psychological phenomenon better. Oldag07 (talk) 00:26, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
- I think a better place to merge that article would be Siege mentality - they're practically the same thing. Robofish (talk) 13:30, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Avoidance of mammograms is maladaptive? Since when? NPOV?
"It is common for patients to delay mammograms or other tests because of a fear of cancer, even though this is clearly maladaptive." version on 6/30/2011
It would be nice if this specific example were changed to something that is incontrovertibly 'clearly maladaptive' such as the refusal to wear seat belts when in automobiles, or helmets while on motorcycles and bicycles, a result that has been conclusively proven via actual crash testing as well as with engineering modelling, rather than using something that is clearly subject to statistical interpretation or manipulation, controversial, as well as politically vulnerable to corruption due to profit motive, like... routine mammograms.
Some mainstream researchers and doctors, after quietly refuting mainstream policy in peer-reviewed studies and alternative healthcare books, are now publicly questioning whether the recent uptick in breast cancer has something to do with mammograms, based on the rate of increased incidence of breast cancer in recent years being highest among populations who take health insurance reimbursement of mammograms for granted. Also a vocal minority of researchers and doctors have been claiming that routine mammograms are useless or dangerous ever since routine mammography was introduced, based on widely accepted understanding of mechanisms involved in metastasis, and proven by experience given that 15-year cancer mortality rates have remained virtually rock stable ever since the introduction of post-surgical antibiotics virtually eliminated infection-related mortality.
Sorry I have no link or reference at hand to -recent- studies that achieved widespread visibility, but it has been on radio and television many times over the past couple of years. I only have my earlier reading to fall back on. One could include McDougall's Medicine and perhaps hundreds of other minority M.D. and researcher opinions dating back decades, complete with science-based rationales now validated by recent statistical evidence that has finally reached not just mainstream medical journals but also television radio newspapers and magazines, proving that most cancers start with a single cell, and double in size every 100 days, and have already metastasized widely to vital organs and/or bones within the first few years, at which time they can still only be found under a microscope (i.e. virtually undetectable). The patient is nearly always incurable by the time the original mass is finally detected via imaging or palpation or blood test - years after metastases are widespread - no matter what 'early' detection method is employed. The problem is not with the concept of 'early detection' but rather with the sensitivity and thus the 'earliness' of the currently available methods, along with the inherent cancer risk of x-rays, which are used not because they are the most effective means of imaging but because they are fast and cheap, making widespread screening economically practical even if ineffective and dangerous.
The only way to even remotely justify routine mammography is if one accepts the possibility of inflicting a radiation-induced tumor in exchange for a chance of a deceptive 'early' detection '5 year cure' along with disfiguring, physically and mentally disabling, and in some cases even completely counterproductive chemo and radiation treatment, futilely attempting to knock out solid metastases, at the expense of extreme illness and new tumors, as a 'success', all the while knowing that the statistical proof of absolute (15 year) cures of early detection and radical treatment (radiation and chemo as opposed to simple lumpectomy) is vanishingly small or nonexistent. Of course the '5 year cure' in most cases evaporates when the uncured metastases from the original tumor and/or newly inflicted tumors from the mammography and radiation and chemo come back as inoperable tumors in vital organs over the next 10 years and eventually kill the patient anyway - a similar outcome to manual breast examination and lumpectomy, if one is prepared to 'deny' the misery of the painful routine mammography and the drastic damage from radiation and chemo.
I am not a doctor and I suspect that a doctor would revert my edits anyway given the way doctors treat me in general when I am a patient, so I will leave it up to a doctor to make the edits if my concerns so move such an individual. I prefer seat belts and helmets over routine mammography based on the science and I hope there is a doctor out there who agrees strongly enough to revise the article, lending my opinion some 'official' backing, and advancing the cause of truth. thx! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.238.202 (talk) 19:28, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Group denial
needs to be a section on group denial --Penbat (talk) 10:49, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
Suggested move and/or clarification
This article's subject is Denial (psychology). A denial of a statement of fact or other proposition is not necessarily false and in fact there are many cases where it is true. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 14:18, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- So maybe just a phrase in the lede for clarification. Alternatively the redirect could get this content and Denial a short page with links to lie, truth,
Look up denial in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.
, etc. 72.228.177.92 (talk)
- The 'main' topic that someone arrives at with a keyword search should not have a clarifying parenthesis in the title of the article, per WP:TITLE. I think that is the case here - other uses are given in the hat note. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 00:32, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- hat note? It's not prominent, as it should be for top level navigation. For example how does Holocaust Denial fit here? 72.228.177.92 (talk) 12:05, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
- It has been proposed since October 2009. I think we can officially pull off the merge suggestion. Oldag07 (talk) 13:42, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Useful here?, denial example
- Carnivores Make Low Estimates of Animal Minds: Meat eaters selectively deny mental abilities in the animals they consume April 14, 2012 Scientific American Mind 99.109.125.170 (talk) 04:25, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
Cleaned up citations and added a new subpoint
It would appear that this article has not been tended to for awhile (the Clean Up was for 2009), so I did some housekeeping to get some good sources and added some things, most notably, denial of awareness, which is of particular interest to those interested in denial as it relates to substance abuse.
I do have a couple of ideas for expansion here, but they are ambitious enough projects that I would not mind a helping hand. There is a great deal of information abound in the peer reviewed literature on denial as it relates to a clinical environment. If anyone would be interested in seeing an expansion in this regard let me know Supaflyrobby (talk) 19:56, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
- I strongly object to this edit by MrBill3, which restored links to Climate change denial, HIV/AIDS denialism, and Holocaust denial. The main subject of this article is Freudian psychology, and not one of the three articles MrBill3 restored links to has anything to do with Freudian ideas: they are altogether unrelated topics. MrBill3 commented in his edit summary that these topics are, "classic cases of denial, subject of discussion in multiple texts)". What on Earth was that supposed to mean? What texts does MrBill3 have in mind? Are there in fact reliable sources showing that Climate change denial, HIV/AIDS denialism, and Holocaust denial have anything to do with the specific psychological mechanism Freudians call denial, and if so what are they? The desire to include these links here seems to be little more than a cheesy wish to pathologize points of view one editor disagrees with: all three may possibly be wrong, but they are not mental disorders or anything similar. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 00:07, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
- Free, so I take it this means you are not going to be first to volunteer to help me out on expansion? :) I understand your objections, and I responded to your post back on the AIDS Denial. I simply do not agree with your conclusions, so I can't endorse your request. However, I will be more than happy to get some folks from WikiProjects:Psychology to weigh in on your concerns, though to be perfectly honest, I do not think you are likely to have much success going that route. --Supaflyrobby (talk) 00:40, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
- From the article, "Many contemporary psychoanalysts treat denial as the first stage of a coping cycle. When an unwelcome change occurs, a trauma of some sort, the first impulse to disbelieve begins the process of coping." From Nattrass 2010 (doi:10.1007/s10461-009-9641-z), "his claim that HIV is harmless reinforces the normal process of denial most people undergo when faced with traumatizing information" - - MrBill3 (talk) 04:05, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
- Climate change denial
- Norgaard, Kari Marie (2011). Living in Denial: Climate Change, Emotions, and Everyday Life. MIT Press. ISBN 9780262015448.
- Stoll-Kleemann, S.; O’Riordan, Tim; Jaeger, Carlo C. (2001). "The psychology of denial concerning climate mitigation measures: Evidence from Swiss focus groups". Global Environmental Change. 11 (2): 107–17. doi:10.1016/S0959-3780(00)00061-3.
- - MrBill3 (talk) 04:19, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
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