This is an old revision of this page, as edited by JohnInDC (talk | contribs) at 17:59, 5 January 2015 (→Lincoln Memorial: - count). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 17:59, 5 January 2015 by JohnInDC (talk | contribs) (→Lincoln Memorial: - count)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
Robert Paulele
John,
Why are you attempting to erase my clients Misplaced Pages.? He is a notable coach and player that has worked with many Superbowl Champions. Troy Polamalu, Earl Christy, Tom Herter, & Bob Sanders are his high profile players he has either played or coached. Do your homework next time you attempt to delete somebody pedigree. — Preceding unsigned comment added by K.lane.smww (talk • contribs) 04:15, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
- Actually I did a good bit of work. I took what I could find about the subject (which is not much) and laid it up against the notability requirements of WP:BIO and found it wanting. He had an undistinguished college career, no meaningful professional career, and since then has held a variety of coaching positions. This all falls well short of the kind of specific attention that is required. (The notability of people with whom he has worked, or along side of, is beside the point. Notability doesn't rub off.) I also checked every single external link in the article and removed the ones that were dead ends.
- Since you note that he is a client of yours, you probably should look into the page on conflicts of interest. Broadly speaking, it's a bad idea to edit articles about subject with which you have a personal or financial connection. Thanks. JohnInDC (talk) 13:56, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
FYI
I gave User:99.112.212.119 an edit warring warning regarding the edits being made to Clathrate gun hypothesis. Thought you should know in case they continue to try to force the changes. demize (t · c) 06:06, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks. He's a serial sockpuppet / vandal - it's been going on for years - and that account is blocked by now. Take a look at User:Arthur_Rubin/IP_list for an idea of the scope of the problem. I don't think this fellow holds down a day job, that's for sure! JohnInDC (talk) 15:36, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
Re User_talk:Technicalitycatcher
I'll be editing and eagle-eyeing your contributions and errors! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Technicalitycatcher (talk • contribs) 02:44, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
- I'll read that as a good-humored, if slightly clumsy jibe and not as a statement of your intention to begin hounding me. Thanks. JohnInDC (talk) 03:33, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
Your input is requested . . . .
John, I'd like to get your opinion on the revised college football player infobox: . Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:16, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
Brooklyn
How on EARTH does the November 2005 picture of the Brooklyn Bridge make a better representation of Brooklyn, then a December 2014 aerial picture of the Brooklyn itself?talk→ WPPilot 23:49, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
- It wasn't hard. The Brooklyn Bridge is an iconic symbol of the borough, instantly recognizable to many people. The prior photo was also very nicely composed and colorful. The aerial photo that you took is, in the size it's presented, nearly featureless; not to mention being sort of brown and colorless, and skewed. The Brooklyn Bridge photo was plainly a superior photo, and on the whole a better representation than the poorly scaled photo you substituted. I've looked at several of your photo contributions and many of them are pretty nice shots, but you might do well to think in each case whether your photo is in fact an improvement over the one that was there. JohnInDC (talk) 01:41, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
- I raised the issue at the article Talk page. Thanks. JohnInDC (talk) 02:16, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
- There are several articles, like Central Park, Empire State Building (original image restored), White House (different image now displayed), Washington Monument (which has a Featured Picture I've restored), etc., which have had lead images replaced with ones that are not as good. It's nothing personal, WPPilot. It's just some of your images are not as good as the ones that you're replacing. We should display the best we have to offer, especially on such highly-viewed articles. The reasoning that photos are a couple of years old doesn't matter, IMO. APK whisper in my ear 02:34, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
- Even when the photos are no longer accurate and are aged as much as 10 years? You opinion does not take into account the fact that the photos your restoring, no longer represent the subject, i.e. the White House, Central Park, Washington Monument The pic you "like" just like the picture of a bridge, is 10 years old and as such no longer accurate. talk→ WPPilot 03:09, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
- If you think a photo has become inaccurate - particularly a photo that has been in place for a long time, and particularly when the photo is a Featured Picture - then raise the issue on the article Talk page to see if you can gain a consensus to change or update it. Also, particularly if your preferred photo is one that you yourself took. Taking these steps will ensure that Misplaced Pages continues to display the best possible photos available, and will probably reduce the number of times your new photos are quickly swapped back out for the prior version. Thanks. JohnInDC (talk) 03:16, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
- Even when the photos are no longer accurate and are aged as much as 10 years? You opinion does not take into account the fact that the photos your restoring, no longer represent the subject, i.e. the White House, Central Park, Washington Monument The pic you "like" just like the picture of a bridge, is 10 years old and as such no longer accurate. talk→ WPPilot 03:09, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
- There are several articles, like Central Park, Empire State Building (original image restored), White House (different image now displayed), Washington Monument (which has a Featured Picture I've restored), etc., which have had lead images replaced with ones that are not as good. It's nothing personal, WPPilot. It's just some of your images are not as good as the ones that you're replacing. We should display the best we have to offer, especially on such highly-viewed articles. The reasoning that photos are a couple of years old doesn't matter, IMO. APK whisper in my ear 02:34, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
- I raised the issue at the article Talk page. Thanks. JohnInDC (talk) 02:16, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
- Most the time, I do. I have a number of current featured photos myself and am aware of protocol here. With regard to the photo of a bridge representing a city, as the bridge is iconic with the city is not really a valid argument. Misplaced Pages is not a art display that uses iconic images as the lead image to represent a city, that is really a bad argument, ot that "it has been here a long time so ask first", all due respect but the site evolves with updates, fresh updates at that, not lethargy for pretty icons that to some people provide "symbolism", is that correct.... talk→ WPPilot 03:41, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
- Probably the discussion about the better photograph for Brooklyn should be continued at that Talk page. Meanwhile I do think that Talk discussions before you make these edits, rather than after, is the better course for both you and the encyclopedia. JohnInDC (talk) 04:07, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
Lincoln Memorial
Look, you win, I think I am going to retire from the site. I am tired of dealing with idiots. It is no longer worth my time. talk→ WPPilot 02:36, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
- This is the second time you're being warned about no personal attacks. Keep it up and you'll find yourself blocked. APK whisper in my ear 02:38, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
- WPP, when a succession of experienced and respected editors quickly and consistently reverts your (persistent) addition of your own photos, it suggests that perhaps you're the one out of step. But you know better than any of us whether you're capable of doing things differently, so if retirement seems like the only option, I won't try to talk you out of it. JohnInDC (talk) 02:42, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
BYK has done this to me before. The site has developed a gang type of mentality that is out of control. The conversation was with regard to lead photos. People hold grudges and apply those in a manner that is not justified, and as with the bridge photo, there is no logic whatsoever to a picture of a bridge representing a city as it is ICONIC. I have been belittled enough, and had a slurry of rude comments, as well as a day of my life consumed with BS, and a total lack of reasoning or even a willingness to communicate, everything is done by the sword now, and what your saying is "deal with it". Your unaware of my prior history with the random power logic of BMK, now I have whisper in my ear as a stalker, what's the point, if these two nice fellows are going to dominate the site, why don't you just give it to them? talk→ WPPilot 03:04, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
- Again, when you find yourself in near constant conflict with a series of experienced and - ahem - disinterested editors, it should be a clue. And of course it's hardly just Ken and APK who regard many of your recent edits as poorly-considered. The truth - from where I stand - is that you seem to be more interested in populating the site with your own photos than you are in improving the encyclopedia. As long as that's your approach, you're going to encounter friction and frustration; and if you can't get past that mindset, then retirement is indeed the most appropriate decision for you. JohnInDC (talk) 03:31, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
My photos are a partial contribution, but as far as the aerial ones I know of no other user that contributes as much valuable aerial stock, as I do. Any one is welcome to review my editorial contributions, and or visit one of the many pages here that I have authored. With a 30 year legal background my insight and composure is most of the time well within the limitations of any well rounded contributor. Photographs tell a million words. Not one of my critics has the type of historic contributions, in photography that I do, so it is hard to take lip from a amateur photographer that has a 200 dollar point and shoot. It cost me more then that for the plane today for a hour, but that is not the point. Contributions and ALL of them should be vetted in some way. The editors mentioned here are well know on both Wiki (EN) and wiki commons s abrasive and each tend to dominate topics and rally others to quickly gain a 30 minute consensus then execute the summary judgment, and take the knife to the victim right on the spot. In law that is referred to as a kangaroo court and I see it all too often here, but what is funny is that the same users do it over and over again. Yes I am a photographer. I am not a clinical research specialist or a student with time on his hands. Every time I have replaced a photo, I have taken the time to research the page, and its contents, as well as the dated, the file size, image quality and the originality of what I am going to contribute, and weigh each of those factors in before I place a photo on a page. As for years I have participated in the Featured Photo Program, it has been helpful to try to learn the "drift" of the editors that contribute as the users seem to come and go, and a few of the photographers that do contribute has a great deal of talent, yet those persons are never involved in these mini wars, that the above mentioned users like to use to dominate pages here. There is a flaw in this site that could be a fatal flaw, if the users keep vanishing and others are continued to be dissuaded from contributing as it requires steel skin and a willingness to take on people whom are known to be abusive. talk→ WPPilot 04:04, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
- Well, throw me in with the dilettantes then. In my untutored opinion, your credentials and careful selection notwithstanding, many of your recent substitutions have been markedly inferior to the photos they replaced, degrading rather than improving the article at hand; and your reasons for including them often are no better than makeweights (most frequently, that your photo is "more up to date"). Indeed in that regard it is telling that no other editor ever seems to weigh in in your favor in these contested edits. As I said above, it looks to me like you (often) prefer your photos simply because they're yours; in several cases I can't see any other explanation. JohnInDC (talk) 04:39, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes when a censuses is reached with 2 people over a hour, it is hard to get others to weigh in, as the consideration is over before it really starts. In the real world a valid censuses takes some time, and the witch hunt that took place over the last few days was done at such a frantic pace that defending or even posting my perspective was fruitless, as the kangaroo court was already in full swing and a hour later, the end result was posted. That is a mockery, not a equitable court of censuses that the real world works from, that is in fact a Kangaroo court. These same user's run in packs. I have seen this before here, and I know, unconditionally that it is the main cause for the loss of contributors the site has seen over the last few years. Keep up the good work! talk→ WPPilot 04:47, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
- That is only a problem because you insist on editing first and Talking later. If you were to propose a new photo, along with sound reasons for inclusion, you would have days for consensus to develop. Instant and reflexive opposition by one or two editors wouldn't matter a fig. JohnInDC (talk) 12:56, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
- I have to add that, the claims you make on behalf of your own photos would go down a lot easier - at least with me - if your private commercial web site didn't link straight back to your Misplaced Pages user page like some kind of adjunct CV. Ego and pride are one thing; (apparently) leveraging your Misplaced Pages contributions to enhance your business is another. JohnInDC (talk) 13:51, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
- What on earth are you talking about? You are so incorrect. Most the time, before I edit any page or consider contributing to it, I put a notice, on the talk page in the hopes that someone will respond. I, on the white house page noted that I was going to replace the photo in the security section, and when a witch hunt is underway, there is no way I can even contribute to the site, as everything that I place, regardless of what it is now is removed, at once by BMK within seconds. Regarding the Wiki logo on the old photo site from 2008, I, about 3 days ago, in the effort to direct my 74 year old mother I placed the Misplaced Pages logo, on my photography site as she had a link in her computer favorites to the page. It is gone now. I have not made a penny from photography in years, do not need to. It is now, something that is a part of my video production services, just a small part really, but it is a hobby that I have undertaken for my photography efforts anymore. I do get royalty checks from Getty but other then that, I am semi retired. Your comment "you would have days for consensus to develop" how, BMK & APK are hard pressed to make sure I have no ability to contribute to the site. I tried yesterday and BMK par for his game, reverted my controls within a minute or two. A consensus is never allowed to develop BMK goes in, dominates the topic laces it with comments that taint the viewers vote and closes the consensus in about a hour or less, then posts his winner. It happens over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Each time that I rent a airplane, and take photographs, it is costly. FYI I have NEVER sold a aerial photograph, for a penny. I spend good money to create visual images that are unique and compelling for viewers, at my own expense for Misplaced Pages. Aerial photography is PUBLIC DOMAIN by virtue of Law. (the space above you is considered public space as such photos are public domain. I have never asked or offered to be paid for my aerial photos or anything that I contributed here. No self promotion, if you only really knew. That site you found (https://web.archive.org/web/20130110132304/http://don.logan.com/) was from 2008 when I worked for Getty Images. As you see in the wayback, the Wiki logo was not on it just 2 days ago, nor is it on the page, now...Use the way back and you will see the site has not changed for 8 years. talk→ WPPilot 01:27, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
- If you propose an edit on Talk before you make the edit, then there is nothing to revert before consensus is reached. So if your common experience is that your edits are being reverted following only a brief discussion on the Talk page, you are leading with the edits. Indeed your edit history belies the claim that you go to Talk first, ”most of the time”. In each recent case below, you changed the lead or infobox photo, and engaged on the Talk page (if at all) only after your changes were undone by other editors:
- What on earth are you talking about? You are so incorrect. Most the time, before I edit any page or consider contributing to it, I put a notice, on the talk page in the hopes that someone will respond. I, on the white house page noted that I was going to replace the photo in the security section, and when a witch hunt is underway, there is no way I can even contribute to the site, as everything that I place, regardless of what it is now is removed, at once by BMK within seconds. Regarding the Wiki logo on the old photo site from 2008, I, about 3 days ago, in the effort to direct my 74 year old mother I placed the Misplaced Pages logo, on my photography site as she had a link in her computer favorites to the page. It is gone now. I have not made a penny from photography in years, do not need to. It is now, something that is a part of my video production services, just a small part really, but it is a hobby that I have undertaken for my photography efforts anymore. I do get royalty checks from Getty but other then that, I am semi retired. Your comment "you would have days for consensus to develop" how, BMK & APK are hard pressed to make sure I have no ability to contribute to the site. I tried yesterday and BMK par for his game, reverted my controls within a minute or two. A consensus is never allowed to develop BMK goes in, dominates the topic laces it with comments that taint the viewers vote and closes the consensus in about a hour or less, then posts his winner. It happens over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Each time that I rent a airplane, and take photographs, it is costly. FYI I have NEVER sold a aerial photograph, for a penny. I spend good money to create visual images that are unique and compelling for viewers, at my own expense for Misplaced Pages. Aerial photography is PUBLIC DOMAIN by virtue of Law. (the space above you is considered public space as such photos are public domain. I have never asked or offered to be paid for my aerial photos or anything that I contributed here. No self promotion, if you only really knew. That site you found (https://web.archive.org/web/20130110132304/http://don.logan.com/) was from 2008 when I worked for Getty Images. As you see in the wayback, the Wiki logo was not on it just 2 days ago, nor is it on the page, now...Use the way back and you will see the site has not changed for 8 years. talk→ WPPilot 01:27, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
- You are having pretty consistent run-ins with a variety of other editors about your edits and edit style – not just Ken and APK, of whom you have been recently complaining, but Epicgenius, NeilN, Castncoot to name three more from just the past 2 weeks; plus, I guess, me. I have said it before but it doesn’t seem to be sinking in: If you have so much trouble with so many editors – and so few coming to your defense - then you should consider that perhaps you are the one going about things the wrong way, and not them. Food for thought, eh?
- (Incidentally, the Misplaced Pages logo and link are still on the “About”, aka “Resumé” page of your web site.) JohnInDC (talk) 04:23, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
http://don.logan.com/aboutus.htm
Nope your incorrect, it must have been in your browser, as the time stamps on the html file show it was removed a while ago. I was replying to your comment and, thanks to the nice users you mention: Ken and APK, Epicgenius, NeilN, Castncoot, I will not be donating photos to the site in the future, so this is no longer an issue, is it. You can all be proud of yourselves, as you have done a great job improving Misplaced Pages. Thank you! talk→ WPPilot 04:30, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
- You have said several different things on that score in the past 36 or so hours so it will be interesting to see what you finally wind up doing. JohnInDC (talk) 04:45, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
- 2 weeks of interactions summarizes my 5 years of contributions. Interesting. I do not like thugs. BMK and APK are just that, in the style of editing that each chooses to use. Both are keen on the rules, as long as the rule at that moment applies to them, I.E. Be Bold allows BMK to change any photo he wants and allows him, to craft in moments a consensus, with his posse behind him. What I found amusing about that user is his ref to WP:DIVA, yet when you read DIVA, it really sounds a lot like how he handles himself here. His POV is the ONLY POV that matters and his passive aggressive POV pushing, dominates the topics he edits, and the user refuses to obtain unbiased comments from others as was noted in this edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AJersey_City%2C_New_Jersey&diff=641043036&oldid=641042701 Beyond My Ken, pretends to want others to offer insight as long as he can posture his POV by dissuading from voting on anything I contribute, and talking himself into thinking that other support his POV, 5 minutes later then just executing the edit. That is not a consensus, that is a dictator and abusive way to control and dominate anything he decides to Dominate. Epicgenius, NeilN, Castncoot, are followers for the most part. I think it is really funny that Epicgenius was the one that selected the Manhattan photo for the lead on that page, then goes back and tells me "do not replace lead photos anymore", but I guess it is still ok for them to do so, without any substantiation of the contributions. I do not think that "Epicgenius" knows what he is doing here yet, and his talk page somewhat supports that assertion. Castncoot like a picture of a bridge for the lead photo of a city, as that bridge is "Iconic" in spite of the fact that icons are not cities, my contribution was to create a page that was about the topic city, not leading with the bridge that gets you there. The photo I changed out was actually the real city, not the bridge going to it. After over 5 years, I have had only a few run ins with other editors. I have hundreds of lead photos and a number of Featured ones too. I have been bold in my editing, as BMK claims that allows him to dominate topics, and 99% of my photos are NEVER removed or replaced until someone decides to go off the deep end, as BMK and APK did here. lastly aerial photography is highly valued and extremely difficult, as the collective combination of skills required is overwhelming at times. No other editor on this site has contributed the type of content that I used to submit. Now that BMK has made it clear that he will stalk my edits and revert any photographic contribution I make, what is the point of continuing other then to just edit stories here, as I have for years and perhaps Misplaced Pages can one day find another aerial photographer that is willing to donate to the site. We will see. talk→ WPPilot 14:12, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
- I only went back two weeks because the pattern was clear and I didn't need a ninth example to make my point. I have no reason to suppose these recent edits are not representative, and in that regard would be interested to see, say, 5 instances where you raised the question of a new photo on the Talk page before making the edit, and BMK and / or APK - or anyone for that matter - forced a fast consensus and prevented the change from taking place. As for your interactions with other editors, there too I only went back a couple of weeks. Looking back further I see a variety of other squabbles like, your filing a meritless COI report, a 3RR report that didn't involve 3 reverts; and a clash with Hijiri 88; and then there is this BLP matter raised concerning your conduct where you denied any conflict of interest despite having already sworn an affidavit on behalf of one of the proposed intervenors in the subject case. As far as I can tell you never acknowledged that COI, and continued to edit the article. Also in the course of this slightly deeper dig I found Santa Ana Mountains, an example from nearly a year ago where you changed the lead photo first, and went to Talk only after BMK (and yet another editor, Alf.laylah.wa.laylah, whom you wrongly accused of sockpuppetry) had undone your edit. I know it's not the very best use of my time to dig through page histories like this but I think if we're going to have a productive discussion it helps to be clear on the facts. JohnInDC (talk) 16:17, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
- 2 weeks of interactions summarizes my 5 years of contributions. Interesting. I do not like thugs. BMK and APK are just that, in the style of editing that each chooses to use. Both are keen on the rules, as long as the rule at that moment applies to them, I.E. Be Bold allows BMK to change any photo he wants and allows him, to craft in moments a consensus, with his posse behind him. What I found amusing about that user is his ref to WP:DIVA, yet when you read DIVA, it really sounds a lot like how he handles himself here. His POV is the ONLY POV that matters and his passive aggressive POV pushing, dominates the topics he edits, and the user refuses to obtain unbiased comments from others as was noted in this edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AJersey_City%2C_New_Jersey&diff=641043036&oldid=641042701 Beyond My Ken, pretends to want others to offer insight as long as he can posture his POV by dissuading from voting on anything I contribute, and talking himself into thinking that other support his POV, 5 minutes later then just executing the edit. That is not a consensus, that is a dictator and abusive way to control and dominate anything he decides to Dominate. Epicgenius, NeilN, Castncoot, are followers for the most part. I think it is really funny that Epicgenius was the one that selected the Manhattan photo for the lead on that page, then goes back and tells me "do not replace lead photos anymore", but I guess it is still ok for them to do so, without any substantiation of the contributions. I do not think that "Epicgenius" knows what he is doing here yet, and his talk page somewhat supports that assertion. Castncoot like a picture of a bridge for the lead photo of a city, as that bridge is "Iconic" in spite of the fact that icons are not cities, my contribution was to create a page that was about the topic city, not leading with the bridge that gets you there. The photo I changed out was actually the real city, not the bridge going to it. After over 5 years, I have had only a few run ins with other editors. I have hundreds of lead photos and a number of Featured ones too. I have been bold in my editing, as BMK claims that allows him to dominate topics, and 99% of my photos are NEVER removed or replaced until someone decides to go off the deep end, as BMK and APK did here. lastly aerial photography is highly valued and extremely difficult, as the collective combination of skills required is overwhelming at times. No other editor on this site has contributed the type of content that I used to submit. Now that BMK has made it clear that he will stalk my edits and revert any photographic contribution I make, what is the point of continuing other then to just edit stories here, as I have for years and perhaps Misplaced Pages can one day find another aerial photographer that is willing to donate to the site. We will see. talk→ WPPilot 14:12, 5 January 2015 (UTC)