Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Fullstop (talk | contribs) at 15:02, 18 July 2006 (→Notice of attempt at external mediation). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Ethnic groups NA‑class

This page is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ethnic groupsWikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groupsTemplate:WikiProject Ethnic groupsEthnic groups NA This page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks: Here are some open WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks: Meta-tasks: Place the {{Ethnic groups}} template on the talk page of articles within the scope of this project. Resolve the disparity in importance rankings among different ethnic groups Articles about ethnic groups that currently have issues needing resolution: Category:Unassessed Ethnic groups articles Category:Ethnic groups articles needing merge action Category:Ethnic groups articles needing infoboxes Category:Ethnic groups articles needing reassessment Category:Ethnic groups articles needing attention Iyer Peruvian people Start an article: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests Feel free to edit this list or discuss these tasks.

It seems everyone's forgotten about this page. It's in really bad condition. Somebody please fix it up and add more information. Also, direct the list to a separate page on its own. Thanks! Sohrab Irani 21:10, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Done. -- Fullstop 16:14, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Stop

Like i said before, removing sources and refrences, making drastic changes without discussion or any source, deleting images, is against wikipedia policy, and is simply vandalism. --Spahbod 18:01, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

The "drastic" changes are neither drastic, nor do they include the removal of any material. Besides, there is nothing on the old page (included in the new one) that didn't come from me originally. -- Fullstop 18:17, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

If you have an issue with any sentence on that page, then DISCUSS it here. -- Fullstop 18:19, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

{{npov}}

I've now flagged the article as {{npov}}. If you have an issue with it, DISCUSS IT. --Fullstop 18:22, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Summary of issue at stake: According to User:Spahbod: "The fact remains that Parsis are not indian"

Response: They are an ethnic group unbound by national borders. But as it says in the lede sentence, they are from (countries of) the Indian subcontinent. Whether they are considered Indians (they are), and whether they feel Indian (they do) is supported by citation throughout the article. No contradiction from the old version, nor from external sources:

Common use: Search Google.

Encyclical use: Brittanica 2006/1911,Columbia, Catholic,Encarta, Yahoo, Routledge, not to mention Misplaced Pages de, es, fr, nn, pl

-- Fullstop 18:36, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I have already DISCUSSED IT, STOP VANDALIZING. you have deleted the Parsis infobox, deleted the Mercury image, deleted references, then you accuse me of asserting POV too? this is simply VANDALISM, i will now report you to administrators for vandalism. --Spahbod 18:26, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

1) I hardly will "vandalize" my own text. 2) So, I commented out the infobox, so what? 3) The mercury image was under Famous Parsis, which is now at Category:Parsis. 4) You say you've "discussed" it, but I see no sign of discussion. -- Fullstop 18:36, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

You wrote the text or not does not justify you vandalizing the article. Deleting infoboxed, images, references... You have been reported for vandalism. --Spahbod 18:29, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Again, you have have failed to cite a single instance of "vandalism". Again, if you wish to discuss your "Parsis are not indian", then by all means do so. But reverting articles is not the correct process for discussion. -- Fullstop 18:43, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

You never once discussed before vandalzing the whole article. I am going to show you the very same sources you showed me:

Common use: Search Google.

Encyclical use: Brittanica 2006/1911,Columbia, Catholic,Encarta, Yahoo, Routledge, not to mention Misplaced Pages

And this UNESCO Parsi project website which already is in the article: http://www.unescoparzor.com/intro.htm

Please read them yourself, and you see Parsis are not Indian.

Furthermore i am gonna repeat myself about your vandalism: you have deleted the Parsis infobox, deleted the Mercury image, deleted references, then you accuse me of asserting POV? this is simply vandalism.--Spahbod 18:47, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I have again observed your changes, not only have you done all those things i said above, you have changed the article, inserting new pure POV text to it. Parsis are not "Indi", so simple is that. All encyclopedias conform that Parsis are not Indi, if you have doubt, please read about them again. --Spahbod 20:02, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Also Fredie Mercury is no Indi either, was a Parsi. --Spahbod 20:04, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

1. Please cite exactly where it says "Parsis are not Indian". I'm sorry, but none of the links I noted, nor the single one you did, say so.
2. As I've said before, nowhere in the article (new or old) does it say the "Parsis are Indian". It says (old and new), quote "A Parsi is a member of the close-knit Zoroastrian community in or from the Indian subcontinent." I repeat, it said this in the old and new versions. This is substantiated by every single reference I provided, as well as the link you did.
3. Moreover (and I've said this before too), the lede sentence is not the only text that was carried over from the old - every section that was previously there is still there. That the "List of Parsis" is now elsewhere is simply a question of organization and common sense. It hasn't vanished, and it continues to be linked to from the Parsi article, so I'm not certain what exactly your problem with the move is (you haven't said).
4. I'm not familiar with the term "Indi", whatever that is. Ergo, I can't respond to your assertion that "Parsis are not Indi" or to "Fredie (sic) Mercury is no Indi either". If by "Indi" you mean "Indian", well, see point 2 above.
5. Your repeated assertions of "vandalism" are perplexing. Quote: "Furthermore i am gonna repeat myself about your vandalism: you have deletetd the Parsis infobox, deleted the Mercury image, deleted references, then you accuse me of asserting POV? this is simply vandalism." End Quote.

Deletion of anything - even if it had actually occurred, and if the deletion actually made a difference, neither of which you have bothered to establish - is not vandalism, least of all, when it is my own text. As I have repeatedly noted, nothing of the substance of the old text has changed, and is, with the exception of the rephrase for clarity, just as it was before.

With respect to me "accusing" you of "asserting POV": its not an accusation but a statement of fact. It is your citable opinion that "Parsis are not Indian". An opinion, any opinion, is a point-of-view, short POV, which has neither a negative nor positive connotation.

Unfortunately, this particular opinion of yours is not substantiable for the very simple reason that an ethnic group, any ethnic group, is not bound by national borders. So, not only is it possible that a Parsi can also be an Indian, he/she could be Zanzibarian or Tuvaluvan or Briton or German or whatever.

However, it just so happens that the majority of them reside on the Indian subcontinent, and India in particular, and have done so for at least a thousand years. This is not fresh news, and amply documented in every modern english language dictionary and encyclopaedia there is. Even your "own" source says so.

--Fullstop 22:43, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

ps: Oh, by the way, did you notice that UNESCOPAR is headquartered in Delhi? (says so in the second sentence of the link you posted). Now please don't say its some massive world-wide conspiracy.

pps: Freddie Mercury, who continues to be listed in the 'Illustrious Parsis' section, happened to be both a Parsi and a Briton, born in Zanzibar. His parents were both Indians and both Parsis. That makes Freddie a British Parsi or a British-Indian Parsi. Simple enough now?

Look here, again it is very simple, you are clearly trying to push your POV of Parsis being Indi in this article. Vandalized it extremely. You changed the whole article from a Parsi ethnicity article, to a minor religious minority of India with Indi ethnicity. This is an encyclopedia, not a platform for pushing extreme POV. And showing websites that does not once say Parsis are Indian wont help you, so i advice you to stop doing that, instead read them and see what they say. --Spahbod 23:05, 17 July 2006 (UTC) Once again please read wikipedia rules and policies before you vandalize any more articles. You can find translation of POV and bias here: . POV=Point of view. :) --Spahbod 23:40, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Answering your points one by one:

1. "you are clearly trying to push your POV of Parsis being Indi"

I am not "pushing a POV of Parsis being Indi", nor have I at any point said so. I have not once even used the word "Indi", since I don't know what it means, nor have you - though repeatedly prompted - qualified that term.

1. "You changed the whole article from a Parsi ethnicity article"...

this article has always been, and continues to be, a "Parsi ethnicity article". Neither my original edits, nor my last writeup have changed this. It has always - and continues to - say/said so in the lede sentence.

1. "... to a minor religious minority of India with Indi ethnicity"

this article has always been, and continues to be, an article on a minor religious minority on the Indian subcontinent. Neither my original edits, nor my last writeup have changed this.

It has always - and continues to - say/said so in the lede sentence.

Next, again this bit about "Indi ethnicitity". I have never heard of this term before you made note of it (in informal English an "Indi" is something/someone independant, which is presumably not what you mean). Second, what on earth is "Indi ethnicity".

1. "This is an encyclopedia, not a platform for pushing extreme POV."

Since my point of view, nor that of the article, has changed, the question of my edits being a POV push are factually incorrect. If you disagree with the POV of the article, which does not warrant a revert since the POV has not changed, then please state clearly exactly what "POV" it is you are objecting to. Your objections thus far have been limited to putting words into my mouth.

1. "And showing websites that does not once say Parsis are Indian wont help you"

You keep repeating that I said "Parsis are Indian". I did not, and have repeatedly noted that I have not. What I did say, and continue to say, is/was "A Parsi is a member of the close-knit Zoroastrian community in or from the Indian subcontinent". This is the lede sentence of the article, and has existed in this form ever since the beginning of the article.

1. "Vandalized it extremely."

You have repeatedly accused me of vandalism, but have yet to cite a single instance of it.

-- Fullstop 08:54, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Notice of attempt at external mediation

Since noone else appears to want to be involved in this "debate", and I am disinclined to let Spahbod put words into my mouth, nor simply clobber what is otherwise hard work, I will open an Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Parsi. -- Fullstop 08:54, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually people has already been invloved in this, including the administrator i reported you for vandalism. --Spahbod 12:02, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Please note your acceptance of mediation at Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Parsi#Parties' agreement to mediate. -- Fullstop 12:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Your mediation is rejected, this is nothing more than clear vandalism. You have been reported to an administrator for uncivility and vandalism, if you continue to revert and vandalize you will also be reported for accusing me of being user:Khorshid sock puppet. I highly recommend that you discontinue your constant vandalism, not only to this article, but to all articles regarding persian mythology and Zoroastrianism, you have repeatedly deleted categories, inserted biased material, deleted parts or whole sections of those articles. Failure to do so is against wikipedia policies and guidlines. See Misplaced Pages:List of policies and Misplaced Pages:List of guidelines for more info. Thank you for your cooperation. --Spahbod 13:27, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Please, either list the acts of "vandalism" - per Misplaced Pages:Vandalism policy - that I am purported to have made, or desist from inflammatory, derogatory and otherwise completely defamatory remarks. Your continued incivility is neither enlightening nor constructive. -- Fullstop 14:52, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

• NA-Class Ethnic groups pages
• NA-importance Ethnic groups pages
• WikiProject Ethnic groups articles