Talk:Al Franken - Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Lowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs) at 00:44, 6 February 2018 (Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:Al Franken/Archive 4) (bot). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 00:44, 6 February 2018 by Lowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs) (Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:Al Franken/Archive 4) (bot)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

°Template:Active politician

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Al Franken article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Al Franken has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
January 8, 2013	Good article nominee	Listed

A news item involving this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the "In the news" column on July 8, 2009.

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Biography: Arts and Entertainment / Politics and Government

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Media Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Media, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Media on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MediaWikipedia:WikiProject MediaTemplate:WikiProject MediaMedia

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Media To-do List:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Cleanup : Media influence, Video game culture, Sound bite
NPOV : Content (media and publishing)
Verify : Multimedia, Alternative media, Alternative newspaper
Other :
- Answer requests for comments

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Minnesota High‑importance

	Minnesota portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Minnesota, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Minnesota on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MinnesotaWikipedia:WikiProject MinnesotaTemplate:WikiProject MinnesotaMinnesota
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Politics Low‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Comedy High‑importance

	Comedy portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Comedy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of comedy on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ComedyWikipedia:WikiProject ComedyTemplate:WikiProject ComedyComedy
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

U.S. Congress Mid‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject U.S. Congress, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United States Congress on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.U.S. CongressWikipedia:WikiProject U.S. CongressTemplate:WikiProject U.S. CongressU.S. Congress
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is about one (or many) person(s).

Template:Minnesota Portal Selected Biography

A fact from this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the On this day section on May 21, 2017.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Al Franken article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4Auto-archiving period: 2 months

Archives

Index

Archive 1	Archive 2	Archive 3
Archive 4

This page has archives. Sections older than 60 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 3 sections are present.

Resignation section

I am new to this page, and seeing all the edit warring, I hesitated to make an edit without discussing it here first. At the end of the "Allegation of misconduct" section, is it necessary to still include the sentence, "Franken announced that he would make a statement on December 7."? Yes, it was news at the time (yesterday), but it has been trumped by his actual resignation statement. I propose we strike that sentence, as it is now old news and outdated, and move the sentence preceding it to the "Senate resignation" section, so that it reads:

Senate resignation

On December 6, more than two dozen Democratic Senators called on Franken to resign. Franken announced the following day that he would be resigning his Senate seat "in the coming weeks". Kerdooskis (talk) 19:13, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

I agree. That he announced a statement isn't notable, the statement is. I removed it. – Muboshgu (talk) 05:13, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

I just added a few small objective details to the misconduct section. Then I saw all this discussion. The things I inserted were dates, sources, and pertinent quotes from the accusers. It's nothing controversial, so I hope you'll keep the changes. These are things that I wanted to find out when I came here, but I had to go looking for them on my own. So I did the type of minimal editing that I normally do.Ramseyman (talk) 02:19, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

I came back and found that for the last two accusers, the objective details that I had added were inadvertently deleted when that portion of the section was reorganized by someone. I have briefly re-entered the identities of the accusers and the gist of their accusations, without going into any details or arguments. In light of all the wrangling here about whether the allegations are "sexual" or not, and "assault" or not, it seems quite important to have at least this basic data included in the article, for factual reference. I hope everyone can agree on at least that much. Ramseyman (talk) 00:49, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Looking for general event article

There needs to be a single general article or just a list at least of these recent resignations and firings.-Steve — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1:9A1B:4C7E:BC44:6336:4C22:9457 (talk) 05:09, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. With Franken and Franks, at least, resigning due to sexual misconduct issues, and Farenthold under investigation, this is becoming a significant event overall. --Mrfeek (talk) 17:59, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

It looks like there already is such a page, Weinstein effect. Franken is listed there. Honestly, at this point we might want a category tag, too. "Sexual misconduct allegations of 2017"? Or just "Pervnado"? ;-) — Narsil (talk) 23:02, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Second shoe to drop

The article seems weird at this point. It has this sentence in the lede: "After Franken was accused of sexual misconduct by multiple women in November 2017, he announced his intention to resign from the Senate on December 7th, 2017." And then literally not another word about the issue in the rest of the page. A reader not familiar with recent events will be left wondering when the second shoe is going to drop.Ebw343 (talk) 04:48, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

It's all in the "Allegations of misconduct and Senate resignation" section. power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:50, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Yes, my bad, I searched the page for the word "sex" thinking that "sexual" would be used. Sorry.Ebw343 (talk) 04:54, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

We're not allowed to use the word "sexual" to describe his misconduct. He's a Democrat. Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 21:16, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Succession

While the Governor has indeed named Tina Smith to the vacancy which will eventually occur, none of this is official until Franken actually resigns. I'm not sure she even qualifies as a "designate" yet. JTRH (talk) 22:21, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

It's true Smith won't officially be a Senator until Franken resigns and she gets sworn in. However, what is it that officially makes someone a "designate"? Isn't it the status of having been publicly named by the Governor as a successor to the Senate? Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 22:35, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure there's an official definition of designate, and I don't know what else to call it. JTRH (talk) 14:47, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

I think we can say that Dayton has said that he plans to appoint Smith, because that's documented. True, it's not official until it's official (i.e. nothing would legally stop either Dayton or Franken from changing their minds), but we can note what they've said they'll do. — Narsil (talk) 01:02, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure why we even need to worry about it; Misplaced Pages is not news. Unless there's some reason to care about when the governor said something, whatever is added now will be trivia once the successor is actually sworn in. --Closeapple (talk) 06:27, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Yes, eventually it'll be a trivial detail. JTRH (talk) 17:13, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Apologetics and minimization of alleged sexual harassment

I was surprised to see the lengths that Misplaced Pages writers/editors have gone to make Franken's forced kissing and groping of multiple women seem like a series of innocent misunderstandings. They were not, and all of the women involved were clear on this point. These were adults, professionals and mature women, and in the view of the women affected, there was precious little room for misinterpretation of Franken's actions. Most of the more pointed comments from the women themselves have been excised from this article, and the section regarding his forced kissing and groping does not accurately reflect the seriousness of the conduct. Frankly, the way the section currently reads, it's unclear why any of the women complained in the first place, why Franken apologized, why the senate ethics committee is investigating, and why he has resigned. 2601:CB:8001:280E:E573:8A02:1AA9:AE67 (talk) 13:01, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

If so, that reflects what is known about these events. SPECIFICO talk 14:12, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

IMO it describes the alleged actions in enough detail for readers to draw their own conclusions, and if they feel they need more context or details, they can always follow the links. — Narsil (talk) 16:39, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Just realized the section header was BLP-noncompliant. Fixed. SPECIFICO talk 17:13, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Categories: