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    Not to be confused with Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject American football, Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Australian rules football, or Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Canadian football.
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    Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/WikiProject used

    This WikiProject was featured on the WikiProject report at the Signpost on 9 July 2012.
    WikiProject Football
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    Sports table color proposal (AFC)

    I can't tell the difference between the two shades, seems the same to me. Govvy (talk) 17:49, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
    I can tell the difference when green1 row is next to green2, but in the current case in {{2018–19 A-League table}}, the rows in the order green1, yellow1, green2, i can't tell the difference. Matthew_hk tc 18:09, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
    Clearing it up (I may've mis-interpreted you Hhkohh), but if the A-League had a team which qualified for the Preliminary Round 2 and Preliminary Round 1, they wouldn't both have Green2. The worse stage qualifier would use Green3. - J man708 (talk) 17:05, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

    Swaziland is now Eswatini

    The article for the country formerly known as Swaziland has now been moved to eSwatini. Unfortunately, it seems like they're keeping the 'SWZ' FIFA trigramme. I've updated several pages that were using the {{fb* templates, otherwise they'd be displaying the name Eswatini which wouldn't be accurate.

    Also, a question about the football biography infobox, what is the policy, do they play for Swaziland up to a certain date and a second row for Eswatini ? TheBigJagielka (talk) 13:53, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

    May be wait for WP:RM at Talk:eSwatini#Requested move 24 October 2018? Matthew_hk tc 13:57, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
    This isn't a case of a nation being disestablished and then re-founded, they just renamed themselves; there's no need to have separate rows for pre- and post-eSwatini appearances. My first question would be, how does FIFA refer to the nation now? If they call it Swaziland, there's no need to change anything; if they've changed to eSwatini, I would say any player who made their last appearance before the name change should keep using "Swaziland", while anyone who has appeared since they changed their name should use "eSwatini". – PeeJay 13:58, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
    Agreed with PeeJay2K3. I think FR Yugoslavia was grouped with Serbia and Montenegro, but i don't remember for the case of Serbia and SFR Yugoslavia. For Swaziland , no need to separate listing of the caps. Matthew_hk tc 14:02, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
    FR Yugoslavia same way just got renamed to Serbia and Montenegro, that is the reason why they are together. As MatthewHK says, we have to wait that last RM and then just move the country name in all football-related articles, but without separating results or absolutelly anything else. FkpCascais (talk) 14:06, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
    @FkpCascais:, for the name, the article title and "country" name may be not in sync, so FIFA did make a factor, not only the RM. For example the article title use East Timor, but the team use more formal FIFA style Timor-Leste national football team. Also, Taiwan (aka the original Republic of China), was banned to use China, so it is odd to call Chinese Taipei national football team. Matthew_hk tc 14:10, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
    @PeeJay2K3: FIFA, CAF and the IOC refer to it as Eswatini. TheBigJagielka (talk) 14:16, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
    That answers my question then! Swaziland for everyone who played before the name change (the official name change, not the date FIFA changed its database), and eSwatini for everyone after. – PeeJay 14:21, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
    @TheBigJagielka: Stick to Eswatini national football team at the moment. The big E and small e problem, just wait for the WP:RM in the main article Eswatini to settle. Matthew_hk tc 14:24, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
    Once Eswatini/eSwatini is decided, all articles/templates/categories under Category:Football in Swaziland should also be moved. I've seen CAF use "ESW" as the country code, however it is unlikely that FIFA's trigramme has been changed. Template:Country data Swaziland is also likely to be moved soon, therefore all articles which use {{fb}}, {{fbw}}, etc. or a flag template need to be adjusted if referring to the country on 18 April 2018 or prior, i.e. {{fb|SWZ|name=Swaziland}} to display  Swaziland. S.A. Julio (talk) 15:28, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

    All-time Atlanta United FC roster

    Could someone more skilled with "roster" pages take a look at this page? I saw it on WP:NPP, but it doesn't seem well contained, or meet the MOS. Lee Vilenski 08:25, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

    Should be re-named to List of Atlanta United FC players in-line with standard naming conventions (I'm aware all the 'soccer' pages use the 'roster' format, no idea why they have to be different), converted into table format with basic stats (dates and games only) and sourced. GiantSnowman 08:30, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

    Galácticos

    Despite being a really highly sourced article, it waffles a lot into WP:OR, specifically regarding what teams are classed as "Galacticos", (Like, seriously, Kashiwa Reysol were Galacticos? And, also the information on why the Real Madrid team was deemed to have failed is not sourced. It's such a big article, it probably needs cleanup Lee Vilenski 12:58, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

    Yeah, part of it seems to be a mirror of History of Real Madrid. Spike 'em (talk) 17:31, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
    Removed the complete list. I mean the only two having a ref with the name galacticos were the idonesian team, well..., and the New York Cosmos. But that one was a blog with no other google hits. SO not worth keeping too. And the season to season section should be shortened as well. Random wins noted there ect. Make it a single section and mention their biggest accompishments, like winning the Champions League three times in a row. -Koppapa (talk) 19:48, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

    MLS clarification.

    Just wondering, is it more important for us to have the MLS tables shown as W-L-T, to maintain some form of consistency between American sporting articles, or is it more important to have them align with every other country football articles and show W-D-L. Also, is it specifically more important to have the word "Tied" used over "Drawn"?

    If it's more important for us to have them Americanised, could someone explain to me why it's the case? It's always just been something I've noticed and been unsure about bringing to a talk page to potentially change. - J man708 (talk) 17:12, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

    America related article use American English and grammar. Except the standardization of article title to other similar article in the rest of the world (thread #All-time Atlanta United FC roster), it seem fine to have their own variant. Even they use their own style in the squad list (such as New York Red Bulls#Current roster) Matthew hk (talk) 17:18, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
    But is that the correct way we should go about it, rather than having it conform to more of the template currently used by the rest of the world? - J man708 (talk) 17:26, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
    I am not an expert in grammar variant. So not sure American use draw or tie actually, but the external source also used W-L-T format. Matthew hk (talk) 17:31, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
    I personally can't stand how the MLS puts draws after the loss column. It's particularly confusing to someone who consumes the MLS article from outside the U.S., and it's also not something other U.S. websites necessarily copy as far as I know (checked Soccerway, RSSSF, ESPN/Soccernet, TSN, CBC which all use the internationally recognised way. Sports Illustrated uses the way used on the official MLS website.) I'd be in favor of using W-D-L, as per usual. SportingFlyer talk 06:31, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
    Can anyone else give some feedback on this? Is there grounds for trying to change the MLS tables to conform to the other football tables? - J man708 (talk) 13:03, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
    I think there are grounds to change it, but even though I can't find the RfC/consensus I'm sure it's been discussed somewhere, and the decision rationalised. It is pretty stupid the way it stands. SportingFlyer talk 13:14, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
    I supposed there are two opposing arguments and perhaps the decision should be based on who is the main audience for the pages. From a global football perspective, it would be better to use the same format across all football articles. From an American sports perspective, it would be better to use the same format as other American sports (the current state). The question is who is looking at the articles most, soccer fans trying to find out about another soccer league or American sports fans trying to find out about another sport in their city or country. Unless we can find statistics on this question, I think it will be hard to find consensus for change.   Jts1882 | talk  14:00, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
    @Jts1882: Considering Canadian and a decent number if not a majority of U.S. news websites show MLS tables in the worldwide version, it's not as if there's a strong "American sports" bias here... I'm not sure why MLS chooses to have their "official table" be outside the norm, though. SportingFlyer talk 14:08, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
    I'd prefer the W-D-L for uniformity. The W-L-T format for American sports is a because American sports generally have no draws or rarely (an NFL "draw" rarely ends in a tie after overtime). US soccer also went this route until recently so have this legacy. As they now allow draws the W-D-L format makes more sense. My main point is I think it might be hard to find a consensus for change, given the articles currently follow American sports style and the league in question follows the W-L-T format.   Jts1882 | talk  14:16, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
    I'd be willing to try, though. SportingFlyer talk 20:58, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
    Off-topic, is there a way to mass invite those user that edited the 2018 Major League Soccer season article? May be someone good in wording (definitely not my English writing level) to post some notice on that talk page, and may be in user talk too? Matthew hk (talk) 23:30, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
    Yes, if someone proposes an RfC, those people can easily invited to participate if done properly per WP:CANVASS. SportingFlyer talk 23:47, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

    Mohamed Hamdy - date of birth

    Could someone familiar with Egyptian football confirm if the Mohamed Hamdy at Soccerway (born 1995) is the same person as the player of the same name at Mohamed Hamdy Sharaf (born 1993). Someone has created a draft for a player of this name with the birth year 1995 and I'm a bit confused. Hack (talk) 11:37, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

    They appear to be the same player. I'll reject the draft draft has not yet been submitted, not sure if it falls under a speedy. SportingFlyer talk 14:09, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

    2018 Leicester City F.C. helicopter crash

    Is there anyone in the Leicester area that is able to take photographs of the flowers and other tributes laid in the wake of the 2018 Leicester City F.C. helicopter crash. An image would be useful in the article. Mjroots (talk) 17:17, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

    Darren Kelly

    Would anyone mind taking a look at Darren Kelly, which I suspect the subject of the article has been editing to add unsourced statistics, removing clubs he played and adding some content that is probably not notable. Thanks, Mattythewhite (talk) 01:08, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

    Reverted and warned. GiantSnowman 14:53, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

    Fábio Lopes

    Three footballers at this disambig, all with 3 different ways of disambiguating. I'd suggest we go for year of birth? GiantSnowman 14:51, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

    Fábio Lopes (footballer, born 1985) should probably just use the full name, Fábio Rogério Correa Lopes.   Jts1882 | talk  15:14, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
    Birth year always seems best to me, keeps it consistent. R96Skinner (talk) 15:26, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
    Full name disambiguation is often useless with Brazilian footballers. It's best to go with their most common name and birth year. Hack (talk) 02:54, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

    Glenn Hoddle birth year

    I've been doing some work on Hoddle's article, collection sources etc. His birth year, Soccerbase has 1957, Telegraph has 1958, I would consider Telegraph more reliable, just wanted to check with other people for sources and which is better to go with. Govvy (talk) 15:27, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

    Every source I've read recently said he's 61, so born in 1957. GiantSnowman 15:28, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
    hmm, okay, Telegraph is normally very reliable. Govvy (talk) 15:34, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
    It's a basic profile, it could easily be a typo - and reliable sources are not infallible. Compare with The Independent, BBC etc. etc. GiantSnowman 15:35, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
    Hoddle was presented with a 61st birthday cake by Robbie Savage on Saturday, before his collapse . Jmorrison230582 (talk) 15:56, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
    yep, I've emailed Telegraph they have a mistake on their factfile, see if they fix it, shame what happened to Hoddle, I wish him well. Govvy (talk) 16:00, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
    Bob Goodwin's book gives "Born: Hayes, Middlesex, 27 October 1957".   Jts1882 | talk  21:04, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
    Actually, wikipedia is not meant for the "truth", but reporting the most popular version on external WP:reliable source, or sometimes, multiple version if the alternative version had other evidence, that was list out by that reliable source. (and dam, i can't find the specific essay/MoS/guide that was linked by others in ANI, but only Misplaced Pages:Five pillars).
    And in this case, it seem just a typo in Telegraph. Matthew hk (talk) 02:46, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

    F.C. or FC ?

    Currently there is inconsistency in naming football clubs. For example, check Category:Football clubs in India. For Football Club, some articles use acronym with dots, while others use it in plain form.--Let There Be Sunshine 17:46, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

    It seems that most clubs have the dots (four times as many that don't), so perhaps the ones that don't should be moved for consistency. Number 57 19:09, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
    See the talk page at A.F.C. Bournemouth for a recent discussion. SportingFlyer talk 02:12, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    The debate of "dot" never end. Also, some WP:RM was slipped from discussion , such as Beşiktaş JK was moved by speedy route, claiming official source did not had dot. Also the inconsistency was also observed in Portuguese club article. Matthew hk (talk) 02:20, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

    Should teams that move up to MLS have a new article created?

    Hi all, there is a discussion happening at Talk:FC Cincinnati#Splitting article? that potentially has broader impact on other American soccer teams' articles. FC Cincinnati is moving up from United Soccer League (USL) to Major League Soccer (MLS) beginning with the 2019 season. The discussion is about whether the USL team and the MLS team should be covered in one comprehensive article, or in two separate articles. More community input and perspectives would be appreciated to help the discussion move along. Thanks, IagoQnsi (talk) 01:53, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

    Requested move 30 October 2018

    The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

    The result of the move request was: not moved. WP:SNOW close. Consider a move to WikiProject Association football if the current name is considered ambiguous. (closed by non-admin page mover) feminist (talk) 07:17, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

    Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Football → Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Soccer – the sport is soccer, not football. SportsFan007 (talk) 02:20, 31 October 2018 (UTC)SportsFan007

    @Matthew hk, Mattythewhite, and SportingFlyer: NFL is football, FIFA is soccer. and it is NOT "patently false", and it is extremely rude to call is ridiculous. SportsFan007 (talk) 02:35, 31 October 2018 (UTC)SportsFan007

    It's probably more accurate to blame this on ignorance, rather than stupidity. (They aren't the same thing.) And the good thing is, ignorance can be cured. HiLo48 (talk) 02:49, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    No Mz7 (talk) 02:53, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    No NZFC 02:53, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

    you can't just say no without giving a reason. SportsFan007 (talk) 02:55, 31 October 2018 (UTC)SportsFan007

    I actually agree with that. Several replies here have been a little too terse and arrogant, possibly showing a similar level of ignorance to that you seemed to display when you made this request. I simply don't believe it's needed. The page Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Soccer does obviously exist, and brings you here, so my answer would be that a separate page simply isn't needed. HiLo48 (talk) 03:01, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    I agree with that as well, including possibly myself - but at the same time, there's a distinct lack of patience I have about this from someone who has made a number of edits to the encyclopedia, whose moves out of nowhere (including deleting redirects) are bordering on vandalism, if they haven't already crossed that line. SportingFlyer talk 03:05, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    The redirect from soccer project was created in 2007; only the talk page redirect was deleted recently to make way for move. Matthew hk (talk) 03:07, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    (edit conflict × 2) @SportsFan007: I'm sorry about my terseness. My reasoning is that Misplaced Pages is an international project, and in much of the world association football is the sport that people think of when you say "football". There may be an interesting argument to be made about a move perhaps to "WikiProject Association football" (thereby aligning it with the mainspace article), but indeed, this is why a lot of editors quickly disagreed with your proposal. Your compromise solution is unsatisfactory because a parallel project would, for all intents and purposes, be the same project with a different name. If you are interested in starting a sub-group specifically for major league soccer in the United States, maybe we could do that? Mz7 (talk) 03:10, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    Thank you @Mz7, I wouldn't be opposed to that idea or a soccer in the united states sub-group. SportsFan007 (talk) 03:15, 31 October 2018 (UTC)SportsFan007
    Hmm, I took a look around, and I found this: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Football/United States and Canada task force. So it looks like this kind of subgroup already exists in some form. Mz7 (talk) 03:20, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    Creating different names for the same projects would only be confusing. On your logic I'd prefer to use Wikiproject Gridiron, for instance... SportingFlyer talk 03:02, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

    Where do I go to request a sepearate wikiproject page? SportsFan007 (talk) 03:05, 31 October 2018 (UTC)SportsFan007

    • Comment I take some responsibility for suggesting this RM proposal (after reverting an out-of-process move of the talk page), and there may be an argument for moving this to WikiProject Association Football, but the existing proposal will never pass, and should be withdrawn. power~enwiki (π, ν) 03:07, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    • Oppose and SNOW close waste of time. S.A. Julio (talk) 04:07, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    • Oppose and SNOW close - as an American user, this was a patently worthless nom. Just because the sport is known as soccer in the United States does not mean that it is known that way around the world (hint: it isn't). We already have a task force dedicated to American and Canadian soccer (which was already mentioned above by Mz7), and we already have a desperate need to reduce the Americentrism that falls across large parts of Misplaced Pages. An argument can be made to move the page to "WikiProject Association Football", but I won't be the user to make it. I hold that the status quo works perfectly fine: WikiProject Football for association football, WikiProject American Football for the gridiron sport that is almost solely played in the United States. We don't need a separate wikiproject, we don't need a renamed page; the current setup is perfectly fine. Also, initially moving the page without any discussion is a terrible look – this is certainly not the place to be WP:BOLD, under any circumstances. 21.colinthompson (talk) 04:29, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    • Oppose and SNOW close Football is the most WP:COMMONNAME globally the most popular sport in every country in Africa ,South and central America,Europe and also Asia as the whole.the term Football almost exclusively refers to Association Football except USA to a lesser extent to Canada and Australia.Even CNN use the term Football to describe the game and most International versions of all news channels use Football . Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 06:27, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    You didn't need to mention popularity, and may be off the mark just a little with Asia. Cricket definitely outranks football in popularity in India, amd there's a lot of people there. But I broadly agree with your conclusion re the name of the game and this article. HiLo48 (talk) 06:35, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    The term Football is extensively and exclusively used in Asia for Association Football and Asia as a whole in 48 countries in over 42 countries ,Football is the most popular .Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 06:46, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    A look at WP:SNOW will answer that question. HiLo48 (talk) 06:36, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    @HiLo48: Thank you so much!!!!! SportsFan007 (talk) 06:45, 31 October 2018 (UTC)SportsFan007
    The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

    I have been forced to open this new section....

    ...to point out a falsehood in the final comment. The "rest of the world" does NOT call it football! I am not American, and I call it soccer. HiLo48 (talk) 08:03, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

    Yes and already stated by Pharaoh of the Wizards. But SBS of Australia also commonly use football during their free broadcasting of UCL and Premier League. As well as a MoS stated Australia-related articles should use football (soccer). Matthew hk (talk) 08:18, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    Actually, Misplaced Pages's naming convention says to use soccer to refer to Association football in Australia-related articles. --SuperJew (talk) 09:29, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    Because Australia has about four different major football codes. I've used football and soccer interchangeably, depending on the audience. SportingFlyer talk 09:34, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    HiLo48, FIFA says football is football unless you are Australian and American where soccer is soccer Hhkohh (talk) 09:40, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

    WP:DROPTHESTICK. Not *this* debate per se, but this has been done to death (and beyond) many times. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 09:44, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

    I don't know who you are accusing of holding a stick. All I did was correct a false claim. Why the rest of the above comments exist I have no idea. Soccer fans do seem to get very excited at times. HiLo48 (talk) 09:47, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    HiLo48, but I call it football... Can you provide FIFA source about calling soccer? Hhkohh (talk) 09:51, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
    What a silly request. All I pointed out was, contrary to a claim made by another editor that the rest of the world (outside the USA) call it football, I, a non-American, call it soccer. I have a perfectly good reason to do so. I can't be bothered explaining it here. HiLo48 (talk) 09:56, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
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