Misplaced Pages

talk:WikiProject Utah - Misplaced Pages

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Nihonjoe (talk | contribs) at 23:38, 18 March 2020 (→A couple new articles and a couple new templates: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 23:38, 18 March 2020 by Nihonjoe (talk | contribs) (→A couple new articles and a couple new templates: new section)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject Utah and anything related to its purposes and tasks.
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5Auto-archiving period: 6 months 
WikiProject iconUnited States: Utah Project‑class
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States
ProjectThis page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
Taskforce icon
This page is supported by WikiProject Utah.
Archiving icon
Archives

1, 2, 3, 4, 5


This page has archives. Sections older than 180 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 10 sections are present.
Shortcuts

Utah Polygamy and Law Since 2000

I'm wondering if someone from this WikiProject could take a look at this article and assess it. It was created by a student editor as part of Misplaced Pages:Wiki Ed/Brigham Young University/HIST 221 - Gonzales - The United States Since 1877 (Winter 2019), and student moved the article to the mainspace on their own without submitting it for WP:AFC review. There are some WP:MOS and other similar errors which can be cleaned up, but my main concerns are that it's a WP:CONTENTFORK which might not need it's own stand-alone article. I don't believe the university course this student created the article for has ended; so, it's possible that they are still going to get graded on their work; at the same time, it's been added to the mainspace which means that it probably shouldn't be left as is just because it's part of a student editing project. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:46, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Utah Polygamy and Law Since 2000 is currently a redlink. There is note visible at the redlink there that "14:57, 9 April 2019 ReaderofthePack talk contribs moved page Utah Polygamy and Law Since 2000 to User:Jolynnperez/sandbox over a redirect without leaving a redirect (not ready to be live, looks to be redundant to an existing article)". Hey, User:ReaderofthePack, could you please comment what is the existing article that you refer to? And, it seems wrong to move a mainspace article or a draft article (having a title) merely to a "sandbox". Would't it be better, at a minimum, to move to that title within a User's space? Anyhow, could you please do clarify about the duplication. Thanks in advance. --Doncram (talk) 22:55, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Sorry for replying a little late. In this case what happened is that this was a student whose work I was overseeing. I wasn't sure that the article would really survive and I also wasn't really comfortable with the title, as it's the type of thing that would likely need to be retitled at some point in time, especially if the page needed to be restructured. As far as duplication, it looked like this was largely redundant to the article on Current state of polygamy in the Latter Day Saint movement, which discusses the majority of the content in the draft to one degree or another. I didn't know if there really needed to be a Utah specific article in this particular situation since the content in the draft was all LDS Church centric. If there was more content that extended beyond the LDS Church then it would be more reasonable of an idea, but there wasn't at that point in time. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 15:26, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

multiple Tintic mills?

Tintic Mill currently is a redirect to Tintic Standard Reduction Mill, a mill "also known as the Tintic Mill or Harold Mill—built in 1920, and only operating from 1921 to 1925,... an abandoned refinery or concentrator located on the west slope of Warm Springs Mountain on the southern edge of Genola, Utah.

Tintic Smelter Site is also located off Highway 6, but a good distance to the west, at a location southwest of Eureka, Utah. It seems to be named "the Tintic Smelter and Tintic Mill"? It covers the Tintic Smelter, "built in 1908, dismantled in 1915, and replaced that year by the Tintic Mill" seeming to imply that the Tintic Mill is at this location. "Significance: This site aids in the documentation of the history of smelters and mills in Tintic. The Tintic Smelter, built by Jesse Knight, was constructed to combat high smelting rates of the 1908 period; and it resulted in lower rates by Salt Lake Valley smelters. The Knight-Dern Mill (Tintic Mill) was built as a joint venture by Jesse Knight and George Dern (Utah Governor, 1925-1933, and Secretary of War under Franklin D. Roosevelt). The mill utilized the Holt-Dern method of roasting ore in processing and received ores from throughout the western states."

So were there two places named "Tintic Mill", and the term "Tintic Mill" is ambiguous? It does seem possible that there were multiple mills in the Tintic Mining District, an area which is not defined in Misplaced Pages yet, but which no one has asserted is small. Or was the Tintic Smelter replaced by the Tintic Standard Reduction Mill quite a long way afar? (Pinging User:Ntsimp.)

Hmm, the Tintic Standard Reduction Mill is described as having been "designed and built by W. C. Madge. It is significant as the only American mill using the Augustin process during the early 1920s." Different process -> different building altogether?

--Doncram (talk) 22:39, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Page 99 of A History of Juab County says this about mills of the Tintic Mining District:

Several mills were built at various locations in the region, but none of them proved to be very successful. In 1871 a small mill and smelter was built at Homansville, in Utah County, about 2.5 miles east of Eureka. In 1872 the Crismon-Mammoth Mine had a mill at the Tintic Ranch, and in 1873 the Mammoth Copperopolis built a mill at Roseville. The Germania Smelting Company constructed a mill in Black Dragon Hollow, and another mill was built in Homansville by an Ohio Company called the Wyoming. In 1873, the Shoebridge, or Ely, Mill was developed six miles south of Diamond. It operated until 1879. From 1893 to 1895 the Eureka Hill, Bullion Beck, and Mammoth mines owners all built mills, as did the Sioux and Farrell Mine owners in Robinson. In 1905, mills were built by owners of the Godiva and Uncle Sam mines, and, in 1913, by the May Day, the Knight-Christensen, the Holt-Dern, and the Tintic Milling Company. The last attempt was made by the Chief Consolidated Mining Company from 1924 to 1926.

The Tintic Milling Company was evidently located at Silver City; maybe the "Tintic Mill" there was theirs. This is the first time I've seen the name "Tintic Mill" used for the Tintic Standard Reduction Mill, which as I understand it was named for the Tintic Standard Mine at Dividend. Maybe the confusion results from calling it the "Tintic Mill", which may not be accurate. Ntsimp (talk) 03:23, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
I found this on page 104 of the same book:

Silver City's boom did not last long. Silver City peaked in 1908; by the late 1930s it was practically deserted. Freight rates soon fell and it was more profitable to ship the ore to Salt Lake Valley smelters. The smelter was dismantled and moved to Murray , where it continued to operate for many years. Later, Jesse Knight and George H. Dern (who would become governor of Utah in the 1930s) operated what was known as the Tintic Milling Company on the same site. Work began on the construction of this mill in July 1915, and by March 1916 some milling work was being done. By April the mill had proven to be a success, and by January 1918 it was shipping two bullion cars a month.

So, Doncram, we both guessed correctly. The Tintic Mill was built and operated by the Tintic Milling Company on the same site as the Tintic Smelter. Ntsimp (talk) 05:15, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Saturday's Warrior

Saturday's Warrior is up for deletion. Is this film notable outside of the latter-day saint community? The article needs more info on critical reception of the films/play. Tea and crumpets (talk) 16:48, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

AFD decision was "Keep"; sources were found and added during AFD. --Doncram (talk) 21:52, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Utah architects

I've created a good many articles on Utah architects in the past, and recently have been cooperating with User:Zigzig20s, and we both have been creating more. Could we sort of keep track here for a while, and maybe discuss standards if that might be helpful? Or maybe just share about all that is going on, and hope some others might be able to help with some questions? I copy in a question or two raised by Zigzig20s elsewhere, and ask some more. --Doncram (talk) 20:08, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

There is Category:Architects from Utah, now with 31 members, probably already covering the more major historic architects in the state. I bet some of them were started by me but left fairly incomplete. It includes:

Recent new articles started by Z or me include:

They were brothers. A quick search at familysearch.org clears that up. Ntsimp (talk) 21:14, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

notability and merging

What do we think is enough to make an architect Misplaced Pages-notable? In the past i created articles for every architect i could find who had designed 5 or more NRHP-listed works, which are pretty major works usually. Now I create articles with fewer works. I almost always would not create an article for someone with just one NRHP listing. What about two, as for Julius A. Smith? Sometimes if an architect only created a few major works, it might be better to cover them in an article about an architectural firm that trained them, maybe. I don't recall myself ever merging already-separated articles back, though. --Doncram (talk) 20:28, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

I oppose merging them. They were created as stubs and can/will be expanded. First we need to figure out if they designed more NRHP-listed buildings; and then they probably designed many more buildings not on the NRHP.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:45, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
For example we need to find the buildings designed by Francis Charles Woods in Idaho.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:05, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Scowcrofts

Side question: by any chance was Scowcroft Warehouse founded by Brent Scowcroft's ancestors? There is also Heber Scowcroft House, designed by Moroni Charles Woods.

Yes. Heber Scowcroft was Brent Scowcroft's grandfather. Ntsimp (talk) 21:14, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
Wow, that's really interesting. Perhaps it could be added to his 'early life' section.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:47, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

sources

  • Obituaries are always good, are found with more skill by Z than me.
  • William Ward (Utah architect) article has Allen D. Roberts source which might cover a bunch more?
  • SAH Archipedia "by architect" browsing is now available. Browsing for "Julius Smith" finds nothing for me though. Also nothing for "Moroni" as first name. Oh i see, SAH Archipedia covers only 67 works in Utah, a tiny number relative to its coverage in many other states, as of 10/2019. :(
  • Utah Center For Architecture's project on architects, which allows one to pick architect by drop-down list at http://www.utahcfa.org/search, yields page on Julius Smith with 2 more works, 4 in total. :) It is already sourced in Moroni Wood article, has just 3 for him. --Doncram (talk) 21:23, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

References

  1. Roberts, Allen D. (Summer 1976). "More of Utah's Unknown Pioneer Architects: Their Lives and Works" (PDF). Sunstone. 1 (3). Provo, Utah: 47–49.

Formatting Utah State Preservation Office historic site doc references

Hey, @Zigzig20s: and @Ntsimp: and anyone else interested in this exciting topic!?!  :) It probably doesn't matter much but there's been some variation in how we format references to Utah State forms, and maybe there is a best way or maybe not. Maybe we could share thoughts? Take for example this form for Cramer House as an example (where i happened to change the formatting by this diff, but i am not sure about it).

Three minor questions:

  • 1) publisher? For documents we are linking to URLs at NPS, I have been putting National Park Service as publisher because the NPS has "published" these documents in terms of putting them out on the web. As opposed to some cases where we really are getting it from a Utah State webpage. Or say Utah State Historical Society because that is the entity which was collecting the documents and possibly "publishing" them somehow, at least presumably filing them and making them available upon request probably? Sometimes a Utah state or even a local version is available/published in form not yet including signatures, dates, stamps that eventually appear in version published by NPS, potentially with content changes too.
  • 2) state the word "Form" in the title or not... i sorta prefer not to say that, because i think it is a blank form until it is filled out and then it is something else, a nomination or an assessment/identification of historic merit.
  • 3) state how much text in the title out of three available lines? Putting all three in would give long title, maybe punctuated by slash ("/") marks: "Utah State Historical Society / Historic Preservation Research Information / Structure/Site Information: Cramer House". I have been omitting the middle line, "Historic Preservation Research Office", and just saying ""Utah State Historical Society Structure/Site Information: Cramer House", with no slash for the line change. Maybe it would be better to convert "Structure/Site" to "Structure-Site", too.

I do think it doesn't really matter which ways are chosen, or even if we are inconsistent, but could anyone else opine about 1, 2, 3?

Or, hmm, should this question be taken to some noticeboard, maybe wp:RSN? Or perhaps better, ask in terms of what would be preferred in articles being nominated for "Good" or "Featured" status? Maybe/probably the exact formatting does matter for articles to get promoted, so ask editors/regulars at Misplaced Pages talk:Good articles and/or Misplaced Pages talk:Featured articles? --Doncram (talk) 17:54, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

I think this is one for WikiProject NRHP. Ntsimp (talk) 18:16, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Brooks Arcade

Has this been demolished? Feel free to expand the article with good RS. Thanks!Zigzig20s (talk) 00:59, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

User:Ntsimp: Do you know this please?Zigzig20s (talk) 02:36, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
What's in the picture is still there. It was delisted due to extensive alterations; as I understand it, only part of the outer layer is original. Ntsimp (talk) 05:12, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 05:16, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Latter-day Saints University

Just to be clear, Latter-day Saints University mentioned here is BYU, isn't it? If so, shouldn't we create a redirect? The phrase "Latter-day Saints University" is not mentioned in History of Brigham Young University.Zigzig20s (talk) 05:41, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Nope, actually! It seems to be the name for what became LDS Business College, in Salt Lake City. The article reports it was an academy which never grew into the university it was intended to be. I do think BYU is the top LDS-associated university, but I recall learning somewhere that Brigham Young founded three colleges/universities (including the one that became BYU). Anyhow LDS University was redirected to LDS Business College by User:Ylee in 2013. Latter-day Saints University was redirected to same in 2009 by User:Wasted Time R. --Doncram (talk) 07:43, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
Thanks.Zigzig20s (talk) 08:13, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Provo City Cemetery

It may be interesting to create the Provo City Cemetery, with a section about its history and another section about the notable individuals buried there.Zigzig20s (talk) 07:24, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

A couple new articles and a couple new templates

I've created the following articles and templates:

Just making people aware of them. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 23:38, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Categories: