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Misplaced Pages talk:The Great Britain/Ireland Destubathon/Archive 1


What is a destubathon?

I am searching for the meaning of the word destubathon. Does anybody have an idea?--Sae1962 (talk) 06:22, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

It's a neologism coined here to describe a contest to upgrade stub-level articles to start or better quality.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 15:53, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Ireland

I know the Ireland - Northern Ireland and Ireland - UK sovereignty issue is a contentious issue for some. The contest in no way implies Ireland and Northern Ireland is one entity or that Ireland is somehow part of the UK. It is included and organised this way for convenience, and to bring about the same benefits to Ireland as the UK. There's a lot of townlands in Ireland which need expanding or merging etc, it will really benefit from this. As long as we're clear on that..♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:34, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

could I ask why it's not the United Kingdom and Ireland? (Or United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland?)

Great Britain doesn't include Northern Ireland, which is why I think it's confusing. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski 20:01, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Does "Great" Britain sound too ostentatious? I prefer it! :-) ♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:16, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Would British Isles be clearer and more politically correct? Derek Andrews (talk) 00:07, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

I agree @Derek Andrews: that it should be British Isles as that is a geographical term rather than a political one. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 09:13, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
Ireland isn't British though...♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:30, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
No, but British Isles is the geographical term that encompasses all islands of Great Britain and Ireland plus the Channel Islands. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 22:06, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Experiences from veteran destubbers

It may be helpful to have a few paragraphs from those who know the ropes- so we can maximise our zapping. I had a quick glance at a couple of counties I have worked on in the past, and have a few naive questions.

  • What do you do if the 4000 char article has stub tags on Article page but is rated as Start or C on the Talk page.
  • What do you do if the 4000 char article has stub tags on Article page is obviously Start or C and is perfectly referenced. Is there any way to determine when the stub tags were placed?
  • What do we do with defunct district councils?
  • What do we do for Cliffe and Cliffe Woods Parish Council, where there are already adequate articles on the two constituent villages Cliffe-at-Hoo8K (B) and Cliffe Woods 13K (B)

I am sure that others will have questions to add. I am sure that there are a few anecdotes wizzened destubbers are itching to share. --ClemRutter (talk) 18:51, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Anything over 1.5 kb prose is not a stub. In cases of clear start-B class rated or templated as stubs they're not stubs. But if those entries are poorly sourced and you largely rewrite fully source and condense it, removing unverifiable claims so it is sound, those articles are very welcome. If defunct district councils can be destubbed do so. Every county on the list is current I believe.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:16, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

I mostly work on biographies, but my destubbing strategies are pretty simple and easy to translate to other subjects.
  • There are enough obvious, extreme stubs to improve that I don't usually worry about borderline cases, unless I know I have something substantial to add.
  • I work my way through the sources I can access in the same order every time, so I can remember where I left off if I have to leave off.
  • Because biographies of women can involve dealing with several name variations, that's another angle to cover in searches; even misspellings or translations of names (like Marie/Maria) can sometimes yield useful references.
  • A lot of stubs are missing easy-to-add features like categories, infobox, image, map, section headings, auth control, italics for titles, etc. Fixing those doesn't require much work, and often significantly improves the article for readers and searchers.
Penny Richards (talk) 23:45, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
  • Not a regular destubathoner, but a question, a suggestion and a comment:
  • What's the best way to measure size of stub/ex-stub?
  • While you're looking at the stub please add any missing redirects or dab page entries (eg from undisambiguated version of title if it's "Foo, Fooshire" or "Foo (thing)", or from variations used in article or obvious in source titles etc).
  • And I think a civil parish (not a "parish council") is an entity worthy of having its own separate well sourced article, in a case where it does not correspond to just one settlement as in the example above. PamD 00:13, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
I often find I 'de-stub' an article by simply removing the stub tag on articles that already give a basic overview of the subject. The length/sourcing quality can vary. But I'd be worried that this project clearly encourages editors to delete or redirect small articles which cannot be currently expanded to 1200 characters. This seems destructive rather than constructive. Sometimes a subject can be adequately summarised in far less than 1200 characters. I'd seriously recommend this instruction to delete/redirect articles needs to be removed from the project/competition. I certainly won't be participating as it stands at the moment. Sionk (talk) 01:28, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

I'm talking about one liners where you can barely find info for another sentence. If a tiny hamlet has zilch info available for it it's more productive to merge it to a nearby village and write what can be said there. If you're happy with it remaining a one line stub for life and think that's a positive thing then I can't agree. Perhaps anything which can't be expanded under 300 char. I agree that well sourced stubs in the 750-1200 range are mostly productive and worth keeping. But I hate browsing categories and finding them swamped with one liners about tiny hamlets and townlands, I want to reduce those and try to improve the average quality, you see?♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:40, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

@Sionk: I've updated it to state that 500 - 1.2 kb expansions are still welcome and there will be a prize for them even if they won't count for the main prizes. The main objective is reducing those one liners on hamlets. If the editor believes the article can't be expanded and is destined to remain a sub stub forever then in those cases consider redirecting/merging but I think most can be expanded to 500 char even if only using a map.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:17, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

I still think the aim of deleting articles about populated places is most unconstructive. As you say, unless the place clearly doesn't exist (I've come across several of those) it shou;ld be possible to expand them into somethoing useful. Therefore I don't think deletion/redirection of clearly notable subjects should be an aim of this project. Sionk (talk) 06:57, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Your opinion is respected Sionk, but it's only your opinion, my contests have always been very productive and a positive thing. The rules and goals says nothing about deleting articles about populated places anyway. Most could and should be expanded even if only 500 char of readable prose. If there are literally no hits or only one or two sources and it remains only a line or two and seems predestined to remain a one line stub then I think editors should take whatever decision seems necessary. You can easily convey information on small hamlets with little info in the parish articles so nothing is lost. Ideally we'd have a full article on every locality in the entire world of course..♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:24, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Biographies

Is there a reason why this is prioritising expanding women's bios? In my experience, the bios of women are often pretty well developed as a result of the great work of the Women in Red drives, but many articles on men I encounter (mainly deceased male scientists, in my case) are in a very poor state. Espresso Addict (talk) 02:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Agree: to focus on women doesn't seem relevant to the project and will antagonise some editors. Just "biographies" would be better. Or perhaps just leave it out and focus on geography. If biogs, then why not companies, sports teams, fiction set in the area ... ? PamD 06:50, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

When I run contests I always do it. It's not the main focus, that's geo and building stubs, nobody is under any obligation to wtite women bios, so ignore it if it's not for you. But WIR specialises in creating new articles on women all around the world. Not a lot of editors are actively improving bios on notable British women. There may be a separate prize for it, it's not what the main prizes are for. If there is a prize put up I'll remove it from the priority list so there is some incentive there.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:47, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Irish counties

Several of the Irish county stub categories are red links. Soneone might be able to create a list of "County Roscommon stubs" by finding the stubs within the county category, but without that there seems no point listing a redlinked cat. PamD 06:55, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Yes, we may need to create makeshift project categories for those. But I'm thinking of reducing it to just simple sections on each country and editors start what county it is. It will be much easier to patrol five sections than 134. If we keep a tally board of counties done that might be best and get a bot to draw up lists of stubs by county?♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:11, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

TemplateStyles

I moved some of the styling into templatestyles. If you want to adapt the styling, this is the link: Template:The Great Britain/Ireland Destubathon/styles.css. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:00, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Format

I've simplified the format to make patrolling it easier, five sections rather than 134 sections!! Listing county first in the submissions and putting in alpha order should make it easier to track. And keep a running tally board of articles done for each county..♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:42, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

I have had a look at the lead paragraphs and done a ce. I look on it as a 2nd draft- that will probably be rewritten several times more. --ClemRutter (talk) 21:11, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Goals & Rules

Are these the goals of the competition, or are these the goals for each participant. To me the first two bullet points look like goals, but the next three are clarifications- I possibly could turn 3 and 4 into goals and move 5 into the rules section. If you look at rules point 2, it back refers to a goal that doesn't exist. As one of the goals of the contest is to particularly target short stubs on small settlements, if you start expanding them and find you can only find between 500 char and 1.2 kb of readable prose, don't let that..... I will just make a small tweak in the meantime. ClemRutter (talk) 21:49, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

To compete for prizes yes. Other that than anybody can do anything they want providing they are expansions to at least 500 char, work on an article to GA or clean up and fully source a B class article if they like. No new articles though. The idea is almost entirely to reduce the stub categories and improve quality though. As there will be a lot of townlands and small hamlets which can't be written over 1.2 kb there is a $20 prize for whoever expands the most short stubs to at least 500 char though they won't be eligible for the main prizes if not fully "destubbed".♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:03, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Reminder/newsletter?

I've signed up but I've never participated in an organised editing event like this before, and my memory is rubbish these days -- can I suggest a newsletter, or at least a reminder to those who expressed interest a few days before the start of the month? Cheers, Espresso Addict (talk) 05:12, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Espresso Addict, appreciate it. Yes the "contest" part of it isn't the point, it's just something to make working on a part of Misplaced Pages that a lot of people otherwise neglect more enjoyable and give some sort of motivation for it. Wouldn't it be great to be able to browse a map of the UK and every village and monument you zoom in on, wikipedia consistently has a decent article? That's the primary goal I have in mind even if it takes 50 contests haha! Casliber usually puts up a central notice at before contests begin, I've asked him. Cheers!♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:10, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Question about the competition rules

If I create a new article, does that count as a "destubbed article" to my count? --SuperJew (talk) 15:53, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

No new articles on this, sorry, there's so many stubs (over 4000 Scottish geo stubs alone) there really has to be a full focus on getting them expanded. If anybody spots a notable subject and creates it though they can add it directly to WP:The 10,000 Challenge.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:02, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

When is a new article not a new article? Hypothetical scenario here: if I was to create a stub article today, then expand it in March, would that be eligible? MIDI (talk) 09:45, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Yes. As long as it's under 1.2 kb of readable prose and a stub. Thanks MIDI♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:00, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Fab. So effectively any (stub) article in the mainspace at the start of March is fair game? MIDI (talk) 10:08, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Precisely! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:09, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Destubbing non stubs?

Do you want a record kept of articles "destubbed" by removing inappropriate stub tags? I thought I'd have a look at the Cumbria stubs cat and the first I looked at was Allithwaite. Not a stub, though needs a tweak to explain strange note about former parish which previously shared its name. Haven't touched it for now, but if I removed the stub tag in March it would contribute to the aim of the project so ought perhaps to be recorded as a success for the project even if not competitively. PamD 06:37, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

A related thought: it might be helpful to see categories for stubs subdivided by size for the purpose of the destubathon: under perhaps 100(?) to find the real substubs, over 1200 for the likely mis-taggings, perhaps some divisions in between, which will interest different editors. Some helpful geek could presumably quite easily create tables or lists either by-size-by-county or by-county-by-size. PamD 07:05, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Yes, there's a fair few which haven't been updated. Editors are expected to remove the tag and update the talk page on those. If they verify the content, add a few sources and add some readable prose though I think it can be claimed.  I've already asked for a list of stubs, a list of sub stubs too would be useful.♦ Dr. Blofeld 08:53, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Browsing through Category:Lancashire building and structure stubs finds obvious non-stubs like Lytham Priory, shorter solidly-sourced stubs like Blackpool Central Mosque, etc. I think the "sub stubs", whether we say 100 or 300 characters, your "one-liners", are the ones to concentrate on to create the greatest benefit to the encyclopedia, but we need to be able to find them easily. Some will have minimal prose but a solid and useful infobox from which more prose should be created if sourced. Even a very short stub is a service to the reader if it has as a reference or external link a source of further information, so I wonder whether "unreferenced & no external links" or "unreferenced or only one source or external link" should also be the priority, and a way provided to help destubathon particpants to find them. PamD 10:33, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Add to my comment at the village pump tech page and request a list of sub stubs by topic. Last I looked somebody said why not just use the categories. Comment there!♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:39, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

PetScan can be used for getting lists of sub-stubs. Eg. 379 sub-stubs from Ireland geography stubs category. Note that in the "Page properties" tab, I set a maxsize of 1000 bytes. SD0001 (talk) 02:11, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Talk page banner

Will there be a talk page template declaring "This article was expanded from a stub as part of Misplaced Pages:The Great Britain/Ireland Destubathon in March 2020", on the lines of the WiR templates? PamD 10:05, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Usually we do that, but not that important..♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:41, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Logging the results

At the moment I see a list of links to counties- an example may help. --ClemRutter (talk) 10:47, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Example given for how to format the entries for England.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:14, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Just in case anyone is interested, I've added a table in my userspace to keep track of the articles I work on. It's purely for my own reference and not an official part of the contest but feel free to copy the code into your own userspace if you want to use it. — GasHeadSteve  13:31, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
Nice Gasheadsteve! I might indeed use this to follow my contributions. Any tips on how to check readable prose size (bytes)? --SuperJew (talk) 17:22, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
Very nice! I've borrowed and adapted it for myself: User:Penny Richards/Britain & Ireland Destubathon. Thanks! Penny Richards (talk) 00:24, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
SuperJew, I use DYKcheck to show the readable prose size, but I'm sure there are other tools out there to get this information. — GasHeadSteve  20:33, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Flora and fauna also?

Is the destubathon inclusive of flora, fauna, fungi, etc? If so, I'd be happy to put a notice for your contest in February's Tree of Life Newsletter. Enwebb (talk) 15:13, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

@Enwebb: Yes, nature and geography are part of the main focus. Lots of specially designated area stubs too. Expansions and destubs on all topics are welcome.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:25, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Cleanup of non-stub articles

Are we going to do anything about articles in poor quality but are above the 1500 character threshold for stubs? For instance, I've just rewritten A256 road, turning it from a load of whimsical roadgeek fancruft to something reliably sourced. Similiarly, A258 road is above the threshold but has the same problems; the most obvious being the neutrality - for example, it mentions nothing about Charlie Elphicke's long-standing criticism of it being a notorious accident blackspot (although I can't really use him as a neutral source). Ritchie333 17:11, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

Yes, debloating is fine providing you rewrite and verify and source it. A lot of articles should be nuked and restarted from scratch. In cases like your road doing just that is more beneficial than trying to find sources to patch up what was there and not always being able to find them.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:22, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

I did chuckle at "Note there are two filling stations (Total & Texaco). There is another petrol station which is Jet nearby. All of them had car washes." (unsourced) on the A256 article, and wondered if I should create a WP:CARWASH notability guideline. Ritchie333 17:27, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

LOL! The A2 is largely unsourced too. I was thinking of running a Debloatathon at some point targeting the more important stuff and encouraging editors to restart from scratch. Something I encourage on my user page.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:31, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

You could call it "Weight Watchers" ;-) The A2 would be a tough nut to crack, given it was at one point the most important road in the entire country (connecting London, Canterbury and Dover) and picking apart the history of what bits of the Roman Road match up to the medieval and modern routes is something of a dog's breakfast. Ritchie333 17:37, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

True, but that's partly my point, people often ignore the important stuff because it's tough to research or write. They create excuses for why it can't be done or they can't do it. In a lot of cases even if they deleted it and wrote a basic, fully sourced start class summary that's better long term than mostly unsourced, bloated material. The A2 should have a fully sourced summary of the modern route if nothing else.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:08, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

I think this is where I came in. A2 road was featured in Look and Learn Jan- Apr 1962 in 12 parts. Written and Drawn by Peter Jackson. I never got #1. But there's a reference for you!ClemRutter (talk) 17:16, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

note re event

this event looks terrific. thanks for setting this up. please do let us know more, as it happens. thanks!!! --Sm8900 (talk) 16:29, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Thankyou Sm8900!♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:35, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Channel Islands

Just checking, the Channel Islands are being counted as part of England in the contest but they aren't included with the county stub lists on the main sections. Is there a reason for that @Dr. Blofeld:? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 11:28, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

They are but I haven't got around to putting the Channel Island stubs on the list yet. I still have to do Scotland, Ireland, NI and Wales too. Anybody can help add them!♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:34, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Isle of Man ? Category:Stub-Class Isle of Man articles theres about 500 to do. ClemRutter (talk) 18:22, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Rocket and space stubs

I went on a small hunt for aerospace stubs, since I am familiar with Black Arrow, but did not find any convenient category stub listings. I found High Down Rocket Test Site after a few clicks, does anyone have a good idea on finding aerospace articles that would qualify for this destubathon? I have a few high quality sources that may have information I can use to expand articles to fit this theme. I will probably do at least a couple geography/location based destubs with whatever I can find at the local library, but am hoping to find a good list of aerospace articles to expand as well. Planes are okay too, I guess :). Kees08 (Talk) 20:48, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Partial answer to myself is the UK spacecraft stub template. Kees08 (Talk) 22:27, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
All UK and Ireland related stubs qualify!♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:16, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
You can also try the project assessment page. The stub listings won't be sorted by geographical location, so it might be difficult to find articles related to the British Isles, and many of the items listed as stub actually seem to be of sufficient length and quality to be promoted to start.--Cincotta1 (talk) 18:00, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
Any updates in assessments (stubs that are starts are above, and vice versa) would be greatly appreciated Cincotta1. I have been making a few updates as I go along. Hope to see you participate in the contest if you find the time :). Kees08 (Talk) 18:26, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

"/" in title producing odd effect

If I hover my mouse over a link to this project, the title shows as "Ireland destubathon", presumably because some piece of software assumes that the "/" introduces the main title. Is there any way to get round this by subtly changing the destubathon title? PamD 23:16, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Yes, you're right, the wiki software is interpreting the page as Ireland Destubathon, which is a subpage of Misplaced Pages:The Great Britain. I don't know if this matters though, it doesn't appear to cause any problems as far as I can see.— GasHeadSteve  10:06, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Books ... and more

Another little niche group of stubs to expand: Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:UK-book-stub - it's a stub template which doesn't have a category, they're all within Category:Geography book stubs and Category:United Kingdom stubs. There are 9 books listed. PamD 16:47, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

And that leads me to look at Category:United Kingdom stubs, which has 314 members and 23 subcategories, some of which are geographical categories and so included in the lists on the destubathon page but others not - I don't see Category:United Kingdom garden stubs or Category:United Kingdom poem stubs, but each might appeal to some editors. The former will be able to be assigned to a county (and may well also be in a county stub category, though my sample of one was not (Abbey Gardens doesn't have a London stub category, though it has Category:Parks and open spaces in the London Borough of Newham }. Some of the poems might be place-specific too, but most not. Other categories include Category:British historian stubs with 696 and Category:United Kingdom organisation stubs with 544 before you look into subcategories. In short there's something for everyone, beyond the geographical or country-specific ones. Should the destubathon pages have a listing of "United Kingdom" stub categories too? PamD 17:07, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Yes, feel free to add general United Kingdom stub categories above the England entries. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:39, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Will have a go when not on phone. Could you give an example under one of the countries of how you want non-county-specific but country-specific destubs to be listed? PamD 08:02, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
Have done. Map isn't ideal - couldn't find one with no country boundaries at all. Does it seem OK? While getting there I've cleaned out Category:United Kingdom geography stubs, some of which were just very lazy stub-sorting, so it's now empty except as a parent category. Some of the UK subcategories include huge numbers of articles, especially the UK-bio section and its subdivisions (all those sportspeople etc). PamD 09:44, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Schools and more...

I had to share these- in case anyone was short of ideas. World wide the majority of schools articles are stubs, about 25,000. Going from Category:Stub-Class school articles is unrealistic as you are swamped by South Asian entries. A better way is to choose a county, and pick a well known school. At the bottom of that article is a helpful navbox. Just work through it systematically- schools editors never update the talk page so the assessment can be 13 years out of date. Stubs become C without further effort! With UK schools- GIAS is your friend- it will link to other schools on the site, give basic information- and a link to Ofsted. Copy the |URN= 123456 as a new field in the infobox. You now can start on the text- yes there is WP:WPSCH/AG and other schools in that navbox to help. ClemRutter (talk) 18:47, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Why not go from Category:Republic of Ireland school stubs and Category:British school stubs and subcategories? PamD 06:48, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Law

Question about legislation @Dr. Blofeld:. Do we count pieces of legislation to count for where it is created (so capitals areas) or the area which it affects? Or is it left up to our judgement? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 12:26, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

@The C of E: Legislation can't really apply to counties unless on a county level or place where the legislation was made.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:51, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Question about place of career

Hello. I'm a bit confused with the sentence "Alternatively, the subject must be particularly associated with the area it is submitted for in some way by residing or working there." If a person was born in the UK, then moved to another country, would that count for this destubathon? Or only solely UK people. Examples: Leslie Dilley born in Wales who did work in UK and the USA, or James Hogan (American football) born in Ireland, but had career in USA. Thanks! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 19:25, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

both of those have place of birth, Rhondda cynon taf and County tipperary, go by that.♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:58, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Okay. I wasn't sure since they weren't solely in the UK. Thanks! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 01:27, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Off to a flying start

Excellent start everybody, even what has been done just today has made this worthwhile! I'll update assessing the entries tomorrow.♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:57, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

@Dr. Blofeld: why are you signing off entries that have only been expanded to 1200 characters? We followed the standard 1500 rule during the Africa destubathon, which is IMHO the correct level to be considered a start class. It's not fair on participants who put proper effort into this if you're going to allow articles that are still sttubs to be considered.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:49, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

It's 1.2 kb minimum requirement for this but strongly encourages 1.5 kb minimum. Because in a lot of cases with hamlets in particular it's sometimes difficult to write 1.5 kb. I don't want not being able to reach it stop people from expanding short stubs. 1.2kb is decent enough for me and borderline. But you have a point if editors are only going to consistently only aim for 1200 range on articles which you can easily write 2 kb + for. Should I make it 1.2 kb for smaller settlements and 1.5kb for everything else?♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:16, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

@Amakuru: The vast majority of the entries are over 1.5 kb anyway. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:24, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

@Dr. Blofeld: Yes, very much so, and I'm not suggesting that anyone is deliberately gaming the system or posting a glut of 1200 byte articles specifically to win prizes. And I agree with you that there may be some cases where very little can be written based on the sources available, even though that does perhaps raise questions about whether those topics meet WP:GNG.
But looking at a quick example from the top of the list, Church of St Mary the Virgin, Henlow, I am sure that could be expanded beyond its current length. There seems to be quite a bit of website and book material dedicated to that topic; and from a project point of view, ignoring the rules of this competition for a second, we would still lable that as a stub.
If there are genuine reasons why some articles can't be expanded to 1500, then I'd have thought it reasonable would for those entries to have an explicit rationale attached to them, as to why it's felt that it can't be expanded any further. Then that rationale could be signed off by yourself or the judges as valid. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 13:41, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Yes, on that one a Grade I listed building should be 1.5 kb minimum. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:44, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

I've tweaked the rules to state that it's really 1.5 kb we're looking for unless the editor genuinely can't find enough for it. There is even a small prize for expanding lots of stubs to between 500 and 1200 char BTW, one liners on hamlets which are at least given some content. While you can't win the main prizes with those, I appreciate any effort which is made to try to make them resemble articles. What we don't want is for editors to ignore articles entirely which they can't get to 1.5 kb. Townlands of Ireland in my experience are some of the most difficult to get to over 1.2 kb.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:54, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Cool, that sounds reasonable. And thanks again for the effort you're putting into this worthwhile project. I probably don't have the time for serious numbers of these right at this moment, or competing for the prizes, but will do what I can!  — Amakuru (talk) 13:57, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Me being thick

I followed the instructions but I'm just not seeing "Prose size (text only): 1310 B (xxx words) "readable prose size" or anything like that. The best I can find under "Tools" is "Page length (in bytes)". Is that likely to be the same? Deb (talk) 16:20, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Readable prose count, if it's not working just copy the reasable prose and check on the external site provided.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:22, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

More than one county?

If I were to destub an article about a bridge - the ends of which are in different counties (eg Hannington Bridge), which county should it be recorded under?— Rod 16:31, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Pick one county Rodw♦ Dr. Blofeld</span 17:20, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Prize for "British and Irish towns, villages, hamlets and townlands"

Does this count inhabited English civil parishes with scattered farms/houses but no hamlet? An example is Batherton (noting that the official 2011 census population appears wrong; the much lower 2001 figure is probably closer). Cheers, Espresso Addict (talk) 18:01, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Civil parishes yes. Even separate articles on tiny dwellings, though notability of farms themselves might be questionable.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:18, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks -- sorry, further query -- if I'm just going for this prize (as I have no hope with the England or Scotland ones), would it be ok to just contribute articles from one or two counties? Or do I have to attempt five different counties? And would there be a problem combining England with Scotland (I used to live in Cheshire and have lots of book sources for that county, but am now based in Scotland.) Espresso Addict (talk) 19:42, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
If you're only doing the 500-1200 expansions and going for the Anti Stub Stubbers awards you wouldn't be eligible for the main prizes anyway so the normal contest rules wouldn't apply. I will create a new expansion for the Anti Sub Stubbers award for people to put up articles which came short but are valuable expansions nonethless. OK
'Dame mit Hut und Federboa' by Gustav Klimt (1909)
'Dame mit Hut und Federboa' by Gustav Klimt (1909)

Espresso Addict...

Editing

Administrative

CSDs (Purge) Entries
G11 1
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Women in Red, lifting women into the light
Women in Red, lifting women into the light

Useful stuff

  • Earwig copyvio tool
  • Template:Citation needed (and other citation templates)
  • {{subst:AfC draft|username}}
  • {{subst:W-short}} (concise welcome template); {{subst:Welcome-t}} ~~~~ (welcome template with invitation to Teahouse)? If you find sub stubs which aren't notable in their own right and find a way to merge you can also put those up of course, though overall it is amount of effort going into expanding lots of them.♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:51, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
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