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Dutch pound
Is there a source for the claim that the modern Dutch pound is a kilogram rather than half a kilogram? I disbelieve the current assertion. The article titled Dutch units of measurement says it's half a kilogram. Michael Hardy (talk) 18:14, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
- There are plenty of sources for just the opposite SpinningSpark 20:18, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
- Perhaps the confusion comes from 10 ons = 1.0 kg SpinningSpark 20:23, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
- In modern usage the Dutch 'pond' is equal to 500 g. Dondervogel 2 (talk) 19:34, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
Ounces and pounds of mass
On the ounce article, one or more anons (several different IPs, but they seem to act as the same person) is insisting on defining an ounce as a unit of weight (force) rather than mass. Since the customary units are defined in terms of the metric units of mass, they too must be units of mass. Could others please contribute? Thanks, --Macrakis (talk) 03:35, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
- I understand your confusion, however the existing statements that ounces and pounds are weights is accurate, and should remain. In Imperial and U.S. Customary unit systems, the pound (and thus ounce) were defined before the difference between weight and mass was clearly understood, and are thus measurements of weight, even though additional engineering units for force were later grafted onto the system(s). Among measurement systems that Americans an British are familiar with, only the metric/SI system clearly defines these separately. So while the value of the International Pound (and ounce) is defined by the SI unit for mass, that does not make the ounce a unit of mass after the fact of its original definition (I view the metric definition of the pound as a refinement/official conversion, not as the original definition, which is of course 7000 grains. But that's another article. (And I might add that your question is a good one, which exposes the problems of continuing to use customary units. Metric is sooooo much simpler. PetesGuide (talk) (K6WEB) 04:58, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
- If you had an ounce of gold in your pocket, would you still have an ounce of gold if you climbed to the top of a mountain? How about if you took an international flight or visited the international space station? Does the amount of gold in your pocket change as you move between these different places? By the way, WP:SIG#EL says a signature should not have an external link. Johnuniq (talk) 06:42, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
- I feel that PetesGuide has it semi-right. The question is not whether 'ounce' is a unit of mass or a unit of force; it is obviously a unit of mass, in the context of scientific discussion. The question really is: What is the English word for mass in the context of an ordinary ("non-scientific") discussion? I last lived in England in the 1980s, so I can be accused of being out of date, but the answer until then was quite clearly "weight". In a "Guess the weight of the cake" competition, or when it says "Weight 8 oz" on a bag of sugar, these clearly refer to the amount (mass) of cake or sugar present. The usage is justified by the "historical conflation of mass and weight", which is in turn justified in non-precision contexts by the fact that gravity is a constant. (In modern Britain, for example, does anyone really say "Give your height and mass"??) This conflation is also justified in practice by terms like "Kitchen scales" which conflate the nonexistent terms "massometer" (a balance) and "weightometer" (a spring or piezoelectric force measuring device). I do not see that the metric system makes any difference at all. The ordinary word for "how much stuff there is" is "weight", as in "my weight in kilos", in contrast with "how much space the stuff takes up", which is volume. Imaginatorium (talk) 07:26, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
- If you had an ounce of gold in your pocket, would you still have an ounce of gold if you climbed to the top of a mountain? How about if you took an international flight or visited the international space station? Does the amount of gold in your pocket change as you move between these different places? By the way, WP:SIG#EL says a signature should not have an external link. Johnuniq (talk) 06:42, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
External links modified
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What about lbs?
Maybe add info also for the lbs? And differences between pound/lb/lbs (if there are any )?
Difference between Lbs and Pounds
Why are pounds, when used as a weight, abbreviated lbs? --89.25.210.104 (talk) 19:09, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Lead Section
The "citation needed" on the # being used to mean pound as mass is by a link to another page with the citation. Does anyone have access to a copy of this book to see it it has this info in it? --154.5.81.243 (talk) 04:24, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
London pound
A recent IP edit changed the following bold 16 to 15, from:
- A London pound was equal to 7,200 troy grains (16 troy ounces) or, equivalently, 10,240 tower grains (16 tower ounces).
to:
- A London pound was equal to 7,200 troy grains (15 troy ounces) or, equivalently, 10,240 tower grains (16 tower ounces).
The edit was reverted by Jc3s5h. I think the IP's edit might be correct. According to sizes: pound avoirdupois:
- 1 London pound = 15 ounces of 450 grains = 6750 grains (437.4 grams)
- 1 troy pound = 12 ounces each of 480 grains = 5760 grains (about 373.2 grams)
- 16 tower ounces = 15 troy ounces exactly
I gather that the grain above is the same unit in each case. This is just a jumble of numbers to me but if there are 480 troy grains in a troy ounce, 7,200 troy grains = 15 troy ounces (not 16). Thoughts? Johnuniq (talk) 03:05, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
- Houston, Keith (20 October 2014). The Secret Life of Punctuation, Symbols, and Other Typographical Marks. W W Norton & Company.