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@Chiswick Chap: "Prehistory" being defined as "before the existence of writing", neither The Hobbit nor The Lord of the Rings are set in prehistory, since Bilbo and later Frodo were writing a journal of their adventures, which ended up as the Red Book of Westmarch. Other written documents, and the writing on the Ring, are also essential to the intrigue. — Tonymec (talk) 14:18, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
As CC says, the stories of Middle-Earth are set in a fictional pre-history before writing was reinvented to remember the old stories.Halbared (talk) 15:04, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
Hm, within the LOTR universe, the author of the books we can read is supposed to have been able to lay hands on a copy of the Red Book, but also to have translated it into English. We aren't told how he could translate it, but what was written in it. Now my question is this: now that, thanks to the Rosetta stone, Egyptian hieroglyphs can be read, does the period they cover really qualify as "prehistory"? Similarly, Linear B was long an ununderstandable gobbledygook, until it was found that it was an archaic form of Greek, separated from Hesiod and Homer by a long period during which the Greeks had lost the knowledge of writing. I wouldn't call the time of Linear B "a pre-history before writing was reinvented". Rather, I would call both Egyptian hieroglyphs and Linear B as text writings making their periods "historic" even if the art of writing was later lost and then reinvented from a different source. Linear A, OTOH, seems to be text but we can't (yet) decipher it so whether to regard it as "history" depends on how we define "history". That's why I insisted above on JRRT's supposed role as "translator" of the Red Book. What I mean is that the LOTR stories are set in a universe which we call fictional, but which taken at face value (in its own so-we-say-fictional universe) was certainly historic and can be understood. When we ask what is the time (some novel) was set in, I understand at what time is the novel supposed to happen according to its internal time scale. — Tonymec (talk) 04:18, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Ah, we're all going wrong here by arguing within the domain and by analogy, i.e. we're falling foul of WP:NOTFORUM, stating our own opinions (WP:OR) rather than going by the wealth of cited sources. I'll remove the word "prehistoric" now, and stick with the unarguable "distant past". Actually we have good scholarly authority for "pre-Christian" also, it would clarify things for many folks. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:38, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Is "'And All the Days of Her Life Are Forgotten': The Lord of the Rings as Mythic Prehistory" by John D. Rateliff a good enough source?Halbared (talk) 08:40, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
In “Legacy > Influence on fantasy” there is a minimal reference/link to The Last Ringbearer. I think there needs to be a short description of this book here (maybe 3-4 short sentences?), in part because it is easily the most original “alternate interpretation” of the LotR in existence, and in part because it was written in Russia by a Russian, which gives it a completely different flavor than Western adaptations. 84.212.81.79 (talk) 20:46, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
"Gandalf proves that Frodo's Ring is..."
The caption under the photo of the One Ring with its inscription glowing is so strange that I cannot figure out what the author was trying to say. If I could make sense of it, I'd clean it up. Perhaps someone who does understand it can do that? Jyg (talk) 23:07, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
I've removed the text, which was added by an IP on June 15. It made zero sense, and I can't for the life of me figure out why one relatively short sentence needed seven commas. I think the whole "this entire chunk of the article isn't in the article but is actually transcluded through a template" is really bizarre though, but maybe there's some consensus or rationale for that which I'm sure I'm unaware of. - Aoidh (talk) 23:15, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
Thanks. The summary of the narrative is shared with the three articles on the individual volumes, which have their own, unshared, reception sections. Chiswick Chap (talk) 03:35, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
Ah okay. Not the way I'd personally do it, though I do see the merits. I can't really find fault with something just because its unusual to me though. If it works it works, though there is the slight downside of the templates likely being on fewer watchlists, letting unconstructive edits through, but I've put it on my watchlist too. Hopefully nobody will add sentences, where, there, are, so, many, commas, unnecessarily, again. - Aoidh (talk) 03:50, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
Maybe put in Christian Novels category
JRR Tolkien said himself that The Lord of the Rings was a catholic/christian work, so should we maybe put “Christian Novels” in the category section? Thoughts. Wolfquack (talk) 01:37, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
He did, but he never called it a novel, indeed he disliked the (real world) category; and the book is devoid of religion, on the surface. So, it's an awkward fit for the category at best. Maybe not go there. Chiswick Chap (talk) 01:59, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
