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November 28

Ronnie Hawkins

The article on Ronnie Hawkins claims that Roy Buchanan was the guitarist on Hawkins' version of "Who Do you Love". I believe that to be incorrect and that Robbie Robertson is the actual guitarist. 2600:6C44:5500:A7:C4:957A:6CDB:5205 (talk) 01:13, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Please address your concerns to the article talk page(Talk:Ronnie Hawkins, I think), but you will need more than your belief. You will need a reliable source to support your claim. 331dot (talk) 01:17, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages - sympathizer/opposition

eature summary (what you would like to be able to do and where):

Hello everyone, I would like to propose an idea for wikipedia that in my judgement should be there a long time ago, to promote fair and responsible information.

On the biografy/info should have 2 sections, one from people who are against the subject/ideas and other from people that are in favor of it. It not necessarily need to have 2 sections, but allow contest quotes. It could be even extended, for the whole subject page depending on the subject's controversy.

Use case(s) (list the steps that you performed to discover that problem, and describe the actual underlying problem which you want to solve. Do not describe only a solution):

Example: A famous celebrity in his/her page would have 2 sides one narrative by their supporters and the other by their opositors if it has. People could select one part of the biography for example and put that under contest and explaining the other point of view. Sometimes even the person could write a personal note upon a specific theme.

Benefits (why should this be implemented?):

This is importante because, the subject written from only one point of view will be always biased. Allowing both sides to express their thoughts will eliminate the bias from the page. And we always should persuit the truth. This is a way to promote debate and allowing people to have a free and personal judgment upon a theme. 2804:14D:5C83:9BBC:0:0:0:D460 (talk) 01:34, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages articles are based on what is published in reliable sources and are not the place for support/opposition of a topic. RudolfRed (talk) 01:37, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Are abbreviations such as "i.e." and "etc." endorsed in Misplaced Pages articles.

To Misplaced Pages Arbiters,
I have been editing Misplaced Pages articles for close to 14 years. For brevity, I have been using two abbreviations quite frequently, "i.e." (in other words) and "etc." (for example). I know Misplaced Pages tends to discourage the use of abbreviations, even though I cannot find the exact editor's Misplaced Pages page which mentions this at the moment. Are these two particular abbreviations ("i.e." and "etc.") acceptable, considering their wide usage? Is there a editor's Misplaced Pages article which discusses acceptable abbreviations?
SMargan (talk) 02:44, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

SMargan, I think you want Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style/Abbreviations and "i.e." and "etc." are fine. TSventon (talk) 03:13, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

@TSventon - Thanks you so much for the clarification! That issue has been a constant matter of concern. A follow-on question from that is this. If an article uses the abbreviation of "etc." at the top, and "for instance", in another part of the article (where you would use "etc."), would you go through the article page and change each instance for continuity, and if so, which would you use in preference, "etc." or "for instance".SMargan (talk) 06:59, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello, SMargan. If that inconsistency bothers you, you are welcome to edit it to make it consistent. But I don't think there is any policy that requires that sort of consistency. ColinFine (talk) 10:26, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

@SMargan: I'm not aware of a requirement to use the same standard English language constructions throughout an article. I'd use a mixture of both, plus "for example", "such as", and any other similar synonyms to make the article interesting to read. I also try not to use abbreviations in open prose, restricting them to parenthesised phrases, infoboxes, tables and other places where brevity might be wanted. Context, as is often the case, is everything. Bazza (talk) 10:27, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

@ColinFine, Bazza & TSventon: Thanks for your advice guys! It is good to get some bearings whilst editing these Misplaced Pages pages, via a clarification on some arbiter's positions on the Misplaced Pages edit policy. You have put my mind to rest. Thanks! SMargan (talk) 11:44, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Do we have a photo-hacker-magicians kiosk?

Hello! Not sure where to ask but maybe someone here knows where to go.

I'd like to get a high-res version of this image off the Mississippi Department of History website for use on Forks of the Road slave market and individual slave trader bios but it seems impossible.

https://da.mdah.ms.gov/series/maps/detail/572788

Do we have people who might have suggestions on how to pull it?

Thank you kindly. jengod (talk) 05:39, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Click the full screen button, zoom in all the way, screenshot each chunk, stitch them together. The image is roughly 5000x6500px; that's only about 21 subimages even if you've only got a 1080p screen. Hardly impossible. —Cryptic 06:11, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

I do everything on my phone so it gets wonky *BUT* I just found it as much higher res in a PDF so extracted it from there. TY so much for the guidance tho! I'll try that next time. Best, jengod (talk) 06:30, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

android app

does anyone use this for editing? It seems focused on reading and caching. 3MRB1 (talk) 05:49, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

https://f-droid.org/packages/org.wikipedia/

3MRB1 (talk) 05:55, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

I cannot create my user page while logged in with android app. What is this ? 3MRB1 (talk) 06:04, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Mobile apps for Misplaced Pages are quite limited in some ways (though they have some features that aren't there in the browser version), and most people do not use them for serious editing. But some editors edit extensively on their phones, using a browser. See Editing on mobile devices ColinFine (talk) 10:30, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Watchlist question

Is there a way to hide "MassMessage delivery" edits and/or edits from User:MediaWiki message delivery on your watchlist? Thanks - wolf 05:54, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

@Thewolfchild: Misplaced Pages:User scripts/List#Watchlist and recent changes shows User:Nardog/RCMuter. I haven't tried it. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:09, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll check it out and report back. - wolf 15:27, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

How to view recent changes from mainpage?

I can't view recent changes from the mainpage. CometVolcano (talk) 12:38, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

@CometVolcano: You may have it on a hamburger button ☰ at the top left. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:02, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

No, it is not there. --CometVolcano (talk) 13:03, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Do you have a "main menu" taskbar at the left of the screen? 331dot (talk) 13:09, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes, there is "main menu" taskbar, but no "recent changes" section in that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CometVolcano (talk • contribs) 13:15, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

CometVolcano the RecentChanges button should show as in the image I put above. Is this not what you see? Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 13:54, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

No, I can only see a "main menu" taskbar at the left upper corner upon clicking which there are main page, contents, current events, random articles, but no recent changes. CometVolcano (talk) 14:00, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Could you upload an image as Sungodtemple did so we can see what you are seeing? 331dot (talk) 14:03, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

CometVolcano It is under the 'Contribute' tab not directly under Main menu. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 14:06, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I got it, thank you Sungodtemple. --CometVolcano (talk) 14:15, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Article's subject is being sued

I have a doubt, it starts with Controversies involving Javier Milei#Coinx promotion, but it happens elsewhere from time to time. Someone has sued some famous person with a wikipedia article, and of course this is mentioned by the press (it would be a great scoop and clickbait, how not to publish it?). Problem is, anyone can sue for basically anything (in the linked case, for doing publicity for a business that later turned to be a scam, even if he had no other link to it besides the advertising), and most such weak cases are silently closed and archived by the judiciary some time later, without the press noticing so. Sometimes there are complex cases that take years before reaching a verdict, but sometimes it's just a weak case that anyone with a minimal knowledge of law would say it has no future of ever getting anywhere but to the archive. So, is there a threshold a judicial case should reach before being worth of mention in an article, or anything that can be referenced goes?

Just to clarify: I'm talking about public figures and how to deal in the articles with press reports of them being sued. I'm not suing anyone nor getting sued myself, nor I'm asking for any kind of actual legal advise. Cambalachero (talk) 17:19, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

On general Misplaced Pages principles, if it's reported in Reliable sources, it can be mentioned, but should not be given more prominence relative to the rest of the article than its significance (or lack of it) in the context of the subject overall. How much that is, is I suppose down to editorial judgement/consensus, unless someone known of a more specific policy? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.15} 51.194.245.32 (talk) 18:17, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

The relevant policy point would be WP:BALASP: significance is determined by weighing the sources talking about one aspect against the body of all sources on the subject; that is, if only a few out of a great many articles about this person discuss a certain lawsuit, that lawsuit should be assigned low significance, but if it is referred to by a great many sources when talking about them, it is more significant. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 21:23, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Well, but then on the other hand WP:BLP, also a core rule, wants us to be cautions; at WP:BLPCRIME it says

A living person accused of a crime is presumed innocent until convicted by a court of law. Accusations, investigations and arrests do not amount to a conviction.

It doesn't say (there) not to publish accusations/arrests/indictments, but I mean why else would it say what it does. And it says crimes not torts, probably because there's a limit to how much we can spell out, and it doesn't have language specifically exempting torts, which if (for some unfathomable reason) the writers had wanted to, you'd think it would say so.

But then on the other other hand, it says not to publish accusations/arrests/indictments if the person is not a public figure, which kind implies that for a public figure it's OK. It doesn't say that directly though. This could be an oversite, or deliberate, but again if they had meant to exclude public figures from the protection they could have said so straight out. (I kind of doubt they really meant that, I would guess that they meant particularly regarding private persons; it depends on how much you want to interpret the text of our rules as a strict textualist, which hopefully not very much.)

My reading is "don't do it", but then on the other hand Javier Milei is very much a public figure and wants to be. He's not going to sue us, and we can't hurt his feelings, but can we hurt his reputation? I do think we can. Other editors might not. For people like Barack Obama or Donald Trump etc, we can't really hurt their reputation much, but this guy... He's not been well know in the Anglosphere, hella people are going to want to learn about him, and his article is the #1 result in googling his name (after the stuff Google puts up now), so we are a big factor in defining his public face to the Anglosphere. We want to err on the side of caution with living people, and it's not like we don't pile on him enough in that article for the reader to get a sufficiently comprehensive idea on what his deal is, on an encyclopedic level.

TL;DR: Leave it out. Herostratus (talk) 23:34, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

He was promoting a scam, for payment. Maybe he was too lazy to do his due diligence, but he accepted the payment and promoted it anyway. That should be mentioned. Maproom (talk)\

What's your proof? Herostratus (talk) 21:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

What is WikiChecker?

why are some users blocked from access? Palisades1 (talk) 18:56, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

It seems to be a website giving statistics on users and pages. It's not one I've often seen used, there are other websites (like XTools) that provide similar data in a slightly more accessible manner. I don't know why some people are blocked from access - I'm not, although I don't recall using it before today. ~ ONUnicornproblem solving 19:20, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Great, thanks. Palisades1 (talk) 19:23, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

references group="N"

Where is references group="N"? Mcljlm (talk) 21:17, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

@Mcljlm: Which article? An editor may name a new reference group anything. Some editor named this one "N" in some article. -Arch dude (talk) 21:36, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

User:Mcljlm the typical use case is an old-school alternative to {{efn}}. You might find them called under Notes with syntax like {{reflist|group=N}}, but they could be grouped like that for another reason, and called in a References section. Folly Mox (talk) 00:58, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Arch dudeIt's mentioned here. I wanted to wikilink Whitaker's Almanack and Bloomsbury Publishing in https://en.wikipedia.org/List_of_post-nominal_letters_(United_Kingdom)#References #7.Mcljlm (talk) 02:31, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@Mcljlm: OK, I see. The ref (ref 7) is embedded in a "Note" (note 12). That note is in the wikitext as a ref with group="N". Your easiest approach is use the source editor on the whole article (hit the "edit" button at the top instead of editing a section). Search for "Whitaker" using the ctrl+F key in your browser, and when you find it, turn it into a wikilink. -Arch dude (talk) 04:36, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Oops, I just did this. Thank you for providing the explanation. Folly Mox (talk) 04:40, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

It was useful to see what you did Folly Mox. I'm not sure I would have done it correctly. Mcljlm (talk) 12:45, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Mcljlm, this was a bit of a special case. Although some fields in the citation templates can just be turned into wikilinks (like |publisher=), the best practice for linking the title of a work is to add the |title-link= parameter. Similarly for authors and editors, you should use |author-link= or |editor-link= as appropriate. See Help:Citation Style 1 for the full details.The reason this was a special case is that the title of the work cited was Whitaker's Almanack 2012, but the target article for |title-link= was Whitaker's Almanack. To avoid creating a surprise link, I first tried setting |date=2012, but that didn't make it sufficiently clear that the work changes contents yearly, which is why I used |edition=2012 in the published edit.If you had just set title=] 2012 as Arch dude advised, it still would have been fine ☺️ Folly Mox (talk) 13:08, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation Arch dude, I'm sure I'll come across other cases where links can be added. Mcljlm (talk) 12:42, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

References

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=List_of_post-nominal_letters_(United_Kingdom)&action=edit&section=14

Province of Sondrio

Hi, why is the infobox on this page before the text? JackkBrown (talk) 23:24, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

JackkBrown, because that is where infoboxes are almost always placed. Cullen328 (talk) 23:28, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

@Cullen328: in the sense that in visual mode there is first the image and then the explanation of what this province is (you understood in non-visual mode). JackkBrown (talk) 23:31, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

JackkBrown, the underlying wikicode can be seen in the source editor. I see nothing at all out of the ordinary with the infobox coding, or how the infobox is displayed on the rendered article. Am I missing something? Cullen328 (talk) 23:45, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

@Cullen328: see the difference between the Province of Ravenna and Province of Sondrio pages. JackkBrown (talk) 23:48, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: There is no difference in desktop. Most editors use the desktop site where the infobox behaves normally. I assume you refer to the mobile version viewed in a narrow window like a phone. Please always say you use the mobile version if you report layout issues. Infobox code nearly always appears before the first paragraph in the wikitext and therefore also in the generated html for the desktop site. Infoboxes have float:right which place them at the top right and allows text to "float" to the left if there is room. That works well in most desktop screens. Mobile viewers often don't have room to the left of an infobox so the designers of the mobile version chose to move the lead paragraph up above the infobox in the html. See mw:Reading/Web/Projects/Lead Paragraph Move. Some things can prevent this move. In Province of Sondrio it appears to be the use of {{coord}} before the infobox. Maybe the mobile code incorrectly thinks that the template output is the lead paragraph and there is no need to move another paragraph. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:04, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: Building on the answer above, Province of Ravenna has {{coord}} at the end of the article, while Province of Sondrio has {{coord}} at the top. The documentation at Template:Coord states "Per WP:ORDER, the template is placed at the bottom of the article..." so I fixed the Province of Sondrio article, which I hope fixed your issue. GoingBatty (talk) 05:21, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

November 29

Can I get a receipt for my donation?

Can I get a receipt for my donation? DrKarl-Oz (talk) 00:56, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello, DrKarl-Oz. The volunteer editors here at the English Misplaced Pages have nothing to do with financial donations. You will have to contact the Wikimedia Foundation. This link will give you information. Donating to the Wikimedia Foundation Cullen328 (talk) 02:16, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

We have nothing to do with the donation process, please email the Foundation at donate at Wikimedia dot org. 331dot (talk) 02:14, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Conflicting sources

I'm a new editor so if I'm asking this in the wrong place, please redirect me and accept my thanks.

I'm editing an article about the founder and first director of Musée de la civilisation in Quebec, Roland Arpin. Page 63 of this source says that what in 1980 time was called Musée du Quebec had a mandate to display ethnographic collections, but it was falling short so a new museum was needed. I decided to verify that.

Musée du Quebec is now called Musée national des beaux-arts du Québec. That page's primary source for the history of the museum is here. This makes no mention at all of ethnographic collections. What should I do? Would contacting the author of the book be original research? If it's allowed in this case and she responds to me, how do I cite that in the article? Oona Wikiwalker (talk) 02:06, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Oona Wikiwalker. Here is my view: The fact that one reliable source makes a plausible claim and another reliable source does not comment on the matter does not mean that the sources are in conflict. If the first source is truly reliable, then it can be cited without a second corroborating source. Anything you learned through direct communication with the author would be original research. Cullen328 (talk) 02:24, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@Oona Wikiwalker: By "original research", Cullen328 means WP:OR. Bazza (talk) 09:44, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@Oona Wikiwalker, you could look for further published sources. A Google books search for "Musée du Quebec" + ethnogaphique produces some relevant hits. TSventon (talk) 14:45, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

deletion stats

how could one obtain the number of article deletions per day over a year, please? it doesn't need to be a graphical plot, a table or list would be fine. thanks! PS: wmcharts seems to be out of date: https://wmcharts.toolforge.org/wmchart0004.php fgnievinski (talk) 05:13, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

User:Fgnievinski, if no one here knows, you may find someone who can help at WP:RAQ. Folly Mox (talk) 13:22, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Are third party sites selling Misplaced Pages branded merchandise legit?

I was promoted tonight to make my annual donation and remembered Misplaced Pages also has a store with Merch for sale. Years ago there was a tote bag available with the wiki globe logo on it, but has since been discontinued or sold out. But when googling that phrase it seems there's lots of other sites selling a similar wikipedia branded tote bag. Are these "officially" licensed in any way or no? I ONLY want to support wikipedia and if that means never getting this tote bag I'm okay with that, I just don't know where to find out for sure.

Presumably the answer is no, but perhaps it's just been outsourced? Kreezzalee (talk) 05:58, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@Kreezzalee: I don't see any tote bags on the official Misplaced Pages store. I do see tote bags on Redbubble (and lots of other merchandise with other logos) that has no indication of proper licensing from the trademark owners. GoingBatty (talk) 06:44, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

No way to know for sure, but to my mind I can't see the Foundation licensing our logos to other party. But if the person is using them without permission, the Foundation probably doesn't care enough to spend resources to play wack-a-mole with these sort of businesses, would be my guess. Herostratus (talk) 04:46, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

154.80.84.43 (talk)  Courtesy link: بلال پاشا at the Urdu Misplaced Pages

Every Misplaced Pages is independent of the others. If you have a request for ur:Misplaced Pages, you'll have to make it at ur:Misplaced Pages, not here in en.Misplaced Pages. -- Hoary (talk) 10:53, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Reverts and extended-confirmed protection

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Several pages have been reverted to bad versions and then protected, in some cases extended-confirmed protected. For starters, see the recent edit histories of Opeyemi Sowore and Tower of London, where reverts have restored display errors. In Mercy Aigbe, a revert removed words which clearly belonged there. It's slightly more complicated with Mark Geragos, Charles Ingram, and Porter and Jick, but if you look at the sources, you'll see that the other versions were clear improvements (and if you know anything about U.S. politics, you'll know that a pardon is quite unlikely to have been requested on January 20, 2001, which is what the Mark Geragos article currently states.) If you follow certain editors' recent histories, you can find even more pages where similar things have happened. I wish people would just focus on content.

(Yes, I know this probably isn't the right place for this, but I don't see where else to go, all things considered.) 204.102.40.250 (talk) 08:36, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Well I have no ability to change the protection situation but I fixed the clear broken formatting in the first two ones. I hope. PARAKANYAA (talk) 09:10, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

The right place to discuss such things, at least initially, is the talk pages of the articles.

I've had a look at the edit histories of several of tha pages you list, and observed that IP editors are less likely to be taken seriously than registered editors. That is "wrong" and against Misplaced Pages policy. Nevertheless, I would advise any serious IP editor to register an account. Maproom (talk) 09:21, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

That won't work, unfortunately. The only hope here is that an already established user will step in and focus on actual content. Mark Geragos is the place to start; when you see the absurdity of those reverts, you'll realize that Porter and Jick, Charles Ingram, and other pages are worth looking at as well. 204.102.40.250 (talk) 05:27, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

This IP, of course, is just another block-evading sock complaining that their prior socks' edits were were rightly reverted. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 05:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Weird interlanguage link

Can anyone figure out why this article shows as having an interlanguage link to a nonexistent Norwegian nynorsk article? It doesn't appear to be on the wikidata entry. This is unrelated to me adding the local interlanguage links to the Swedish and Afrikaans wikis (to override wikidata because other language wikis have articles on the perpetrator and not the event), it was there before. I thought adding those might fix it, but it did not. PARAKANYAA (talk) 08:50, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@PARAKANYAA: there was an incorrect interwikilink in Template:Massacre-stub (for several months) which got included in the article. I removed it. MKFI (talk) 09:43, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@MKFI Ohhhhh, that makes sense, yeah it didn't seem like an article title. Thank you very much. PARAKANYAA (talk) 09:44, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

The 36.80.31.52 (talk) had added similar broken interwikilinks to several other templates and also to some categories. I think I got them all cleaned up now. MKFI (talk) 10:05, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

photos

Why can't I upload photos to my Misplaced Pages page it gives me this warning " We could not determine whether this file is suitable for Wikimedia Commons. Please only upload photos that you took yourself with your camera, or see what else is acceptable. See the guide to make sure the file is acceptable and learn how to upload it on Wikimedia Commons." The picture is not copyrighted and not graphic. Maggie on the block (talk) 09:50, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Maggie on the block Are you attempting to upload your image to Commons? You'll need to handle issues with the process there. 331dot (talk) 09:57, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@Maggie on the block: Try starting at commons:Special:UploadWizard. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:26, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm concerned that you say "The picture is not copyrighted". If is was produced at certain times and places this can be accurate, but at most times and places in the modern world, every work is automatically copyright (not "copyrighted") unless the right is explicitly waived. For this reason, Commons requires an explicit justification for a claim that an image is in the public domain (which is another way of saying "not copyright"). ColinFine (talk) 11:29, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Maggie on the block, that is an automated warning. However I echo what ColinFine says above, as the logged warnings c:Special:AbuseLog/10243939, c:Special:AbuseLog/10243941 and c:Special:AbuseLog/10243942 suggest that you were trying to upload an album cover art which almost certainly would be copyrighted. MKFI (talk) 11:35, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@Maggie on the block: If you are trying to upload album cover art, you can use the Misplaced Pages:File Upload Wizard and upload it as a non-free file, and then add the image to the infobox on the article about the album. Then you can visit the article's talk page and remove any WikiProject parameters like |needs-photo= and templates like {{photo requested}}. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 15:09, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@Maggie on the block: It's copyrighted by default and the copyright by default is owned by the photographer. If you take it yourself, it's still copyrighted, but you own the copyright and you can therefore license it to Misplaced Pages. -Arch dude (talk) 14:46, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Template portal

I have always written "{{Portal|Food|Italy}}" (example), but I would like to know whether the country should be written before or after. JackkBrown (talk) 14:12, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

JackkBrown, I don't think it matters. In any case, I believe portals are mostly inactive. TSventon (talk) 14:51, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Not "incactive", "unfortunately declining", perhaps. Edward-Woodrow (talk) 22:21, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@TSventon: @Edward-Woodrow: no longer necessary, I did it all manually (the valuable List of Italian dishes page helped me a lot); lists are so underrated, but they are so useful. JackkBrown (talk) 02:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Searching for a Reference

In a long article, I want to know if a particular reference has been used previously. I can tediously examine every reference at the end of the article to determine this but is there an easy way to interogate/search the article to find a match to a keyword for a particular reference? Newwhist (talk) 14:32, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@Newwhist: Use your browser's search function (ctrl+f). You can either search the article as displayed, or search the wikisource of the article if you need to search the reference's URL syntax. To search in the wikisource, click the "edit" button at the top of the article. Please do not accidentally actually edit the article during this process. -Arch dude (talk) 14:39, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@Newwhist: It's ctrl+f in Windows browsers, also at other websites. If it doesn't work then tell us your browser and operating system or device. Misplaced Pages's standard source editor has a more advanced search function which can also replace text and use regular expressions. First click "Advanced" in a toolbar above the edit area and then a magnifying glass icon at the far right. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:57, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Why?

I have noticed that on the "Southern Italy" page lowercase letter is used for "Southern", whereas on the "Northern Italy" page "Northern" is written with a capital letter. Why? What is right? Remember that I am not a native English speaker. JackkBrown (talk) 19:03, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: Why are there inconsistency across articles? Because no one has taken the time to make them consistent. Building that consensus could be done on one of those article talk pages, or maybe Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Italy. GoingBatty (talk) 19:42, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

But the editor is asking about consistency within an article. Inconsistency across articles doesn't matter, it's not worth worrying about IMO.

Either is correct, but within an article, inconsistency on matters like this might be annoying, possibly slightly confusing, likely to be argued over, and makes us look a bit feckless. So it's worthwhile to fix it if you're up to it.

Since either is correct, to decide which way to fix it... use the way that's most used in the article, or just pick one at random (or, ideally, use the case used by the article creator (or first person to use the term in the article) if you're up to that). There's no rule about this I don't think. Herostratus (talk) 04:41, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

JackkBrown, in conventional English orthographies, "Southern X" and "southern X" often have different connotations: the former implies that the term is conventionally recognised in some particular context (which could be in government administration, a weather-forecast region, some scientific discipline, a commercial company's sales-force organisation, etc., etc.) while the latter is more vague and may be a current writer's momentary description with no intended precision. Thus a particular article could validly use both to mean slightly different things.

It is my impression that in the Southern Italy article, both meanings are being used. Determining whether or not each variation is being used appropriately in all 51 instances of "S|southern Italy" is an editorial exercise I do not care to undertake, though you are welcome to. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.245.32 (talk) 08:43, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Yeah I see what you mean. Mnmn. I was wrong, I take back what I said. Instead: "Southern" would only be used in a proper noun phrase, or shorthand for a proper noun, which would be rare in most articles like this. It implies a formally named entity and shouldn't be used otherwise. I would not be adverse to sticking this into a rule in one of the MOS's somewhere.

In the article, every use of "Southern" is either the start of a sentence or clearly incorrect; "... and Southern Italian ports...", which was used in the article, can't be correct; it's either "southern Italian ports" or "Southern Italian Ports", which the latter would only be correct if referring to The League of Southern Italian Ports or something in which case you had better use the full name anyway, at first introduction at least. This was the only error that I found in the text.

Fixing it, not that onerous a problem I guess, altho it is a bit of work. Nobody's required to fix it, we all pass on lots of things that need fixing if we're doing something else. Hold on... ... Done, did not take long, but I see what you mean, there are a number of instances where upper-case is properly used: Start of sentence, title case for books and articles, names of image files. There weren't any proper noun phrases in this article but you do have to watch for them. There was one mis-cased Wikilink that needed to be fixed. The target article was properly cased, what to do if the link is to an article that itself is miscased, I don't know, or care really. It would be hard to write a robot to fix this, altho I suppose ChatGBT could. Herostratus (talk) 23:50, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Libelous Posting

Someone has edited my company's page. They are Anonymous6256. The posting is libel and will cause significant harm to our company. They appear to be a disgruntled employee. Is there some way to block this person and ideally, find out who they are so I can discuss with them? Lynn.hamilton (talk) 22:52, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Blocked for a legal threat(elsewhere). 331dot (talk) 22:56, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

November 30

Perceval Maitland Laurence

Ref number 7 is in red - please fix - I cannot. Thanks 115.70.23.77 (talk) 00:49, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

There is date=1951 and 2011. Change this to one year only and the error should go away. RudolfRed (talk) 01:00, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

It might be appropriate to use |orig-year=1951 |year=2011. GoingBatty (talk) 03:04, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

External Links and links to Misplaced Pages

Are there any cases where the External Links section of an article should include links to Misplaced Pages? I always thought this section was only for links to websites outside of Misplaced Pages. {{Portal}} instructions say that it can be placed in the External Links section of an article if there is no See Also section, which is confusing to me, so I am curious what the guidelines are for Misplaced Pages links in the EL section. I did see that WP:ELNO includes navigation templates, not sure if Portal links fall into that group. RudolfRed (talk) 01:19, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Template:Portal isn't a link but rather a box of links. It won't be segregated to a particular section but will float, so it's fine to do as it is suggesting. Links per se to Misplaced Pages should appear in See Also, not External Links. User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

But you could also simply add a "See also" section to the article and put your link there. Herostratus (talk) 03:53, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

edit reverted

Why was my comment undone because it was not “constructive”. What does that mean? MeeraHiten (talk) 01:29, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Added a header to your question. RudolfRed (talk) 01:32, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@MeeraHiten: When you add content to an article, you also need to cite your sources. See WP:REFB for help on that. RudolfRed (talk) 01:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Note: user now blocked as a sock. --ColinFine (talk) 14:20, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Donations

I gave a one time donation and made that very clear because I like Misplaced Pages but apparently you have been taking appx 26 dollars a month from my account for a while ..this must stop and I can’t believe you guys have done this .. my name is Deahana Allen and I am a single mother of three and id like my money back please and take no more from my account.. how could you do this when I marked clearly it was a one time gift .. I will spread the word to never donate to you guys if you don’t make this right and trust me I can spread it far and wide  ! 2601:483:4B80:41F0:C1C6:88F7:D161:125F (talk) 01:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

This help desk cannot help with donation questions or problems. Please email donate@wikimedia.org RudolfRed (talk) 01:38, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

See more at donate:FAQ#What is your refund policy? PrimeHunter (talk) 02:16, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't recommend revealing personal information especially in this page. Also don't make threats to Misplaced Pages as this is probably not Wikimedia's fault. Or if it is, it's a mistake. Sangsangaplaz (talk) 03:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Template

How can I add a new parameter into a template? Sangsangaplaz (talk) 03:31, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@Sangsangaplaz: Hi there! It probably depends on the template. I suggest starting by posting your proposal on the template's talk page. GoingBatty (talk) 04:10, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@Sangsangaplaz: Always be specific in questions and link relevant pages. Some template talk pages are inactive. Which parameter do you want to add to which template? There is general help at Help:Template but it can be complicated. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:29, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Reference fixing

There are a few references that I need to fix at Chi Fornacis. 112.120.56.69 (talk) 07:31, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

 Fixed Folly Mox (talk) 13:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Looking for advice on notability requirements for an organisation

Hi all

I'd really appreciate some advice in undertanding notability guidelines and also the practical realities of available references for writing an article for an organisation I'm interested in, Stop Ecocide International, who are the main organisation trying to make damaging the environment a crime internationally. It is covered a lot by relaible sources, New York Times, Guardian, Reuters etc, however the articles focus on ecocide itsself, both the damage done to the environment and the attempt to make it a crime. Their head, Jojo Mehta is interviewed as a subject matter expert and spokesperson on environmental law in 10s of articles on the subject and they are talked about as the main organisation driving the change in the law. Can someone advise me if the references available are enough to meet notability requirements? I don't want to write something that is likely get into a deletion discussion. If you could point to specific rules when you reply that would really help :)

Articles completely about Jojo, mostly as a subject matter expert

• https://www.earthisland.org/journal/index.php/magazine/entry/jojo-mehta-criminalizing-ecocide/
• https://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/climate-strikes-impeach-o-meter-fixing-democracy-spoofing-downton-abbey-nxivm-whistleblower-more-1.5297400/why-activists-want-to-make-ecocide-a-crime-against-humanity-1.5297427
• https://theecologist.org/2021/nov/11/ecocide-law-will-come-faster-expected

Short interview or statements by Jojo in articles about the topic of ecocide law, while they're not full interviews the journalist has spoken to her as a subject matter expert, many of the articles include an image of her as she is a signifcant part of the article and the organisation is a topic of the article, not just mentioned in passing.

• https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/21/sunday-review/bolsonaro-amazon-fire.html
• https://www.theguardian.com/law/2020/nov/30/international-lawyers-draft-plan-to-criminalise-ecosystem-destruction
• https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/aug/26/growing-number-of-countries-consider-making-ecocide-crime
• https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/26/activists-push-make-ecocide-international-crime
• https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/society-watch-drive-make-ecocide-an-international-crime-gains-momentum-2023-02-20/
• https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/climate-criminals-face-twenty-years-31383138
• https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19629824.crime-ecocide-enshrined-law/
• https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23910341.msp-behind-scary-scottish-ecocide-law-says-hopes-never-used/
• https://insideclimatenews.org/news/22062021/ecocide-definition-panel-international-crime/
• https://insideclimatenews.org/news/23112023/eu-sets-new-environmental-crimes-ecocide/
• https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/17/eu-criminalises-environmental-damage-comparable-to-ecocide
• https://stroudtimes.com/campaigner-and-her-mule-head-to-stroud-on-final-leg-of-epic-journey/
• https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/news/parliament-adds-ecocide-to-eus-draft-list-of-environmental-crimes/
• https://environmentjournal.online/climate-change/camden-becomes-first-uk-council-to-endorse-ecocide-laws/
• https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/22/how-a-growing-movement-plans-to-put-ecocide-on-a-par-with-war-crimes.html
• https://theecologist.org/2023/jul/05/protecting-heart-earth-ecocide
• https://www.aptnnews.ca/national-news/criminalize-ecocide-cross-party-members-of-parliament-join-in-talks-to-declare-widespread-environmental-destruction-an-international-crime/

Articles by Jojo published in reliable sources

• https://www.euronews.com/2023/08/09/the-planet-can-only-be-protected-from-short-sighted-politics-by-criminalising-ecocide
• https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/24/climate-crisis-ecocide-international-crime
• https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/25/polly-higgins-obituary

Thanks very much for any advice

~~~~ John Cummings (talk) 10:58, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

I haven't examined all these sources, but I can say that interviews do not contribute towards notability. They can be used for other purposes, but not that. 331dot (talk) 11:04, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

User:John Cummings, I'd say you have no source in that batch that contributes to notability for either Stop Ecocide International or Jojo Mehta. None of the sources satisfies both WP:SIGCOV and WP:IS. My suggestion would be to add information to the Ecocide article instead. Folly Mox (talk) 13:00, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

John Cummings: to establish that Mehta is notable, you'll need to find independent sources that write about him. Those you list above are all based on what he has said, and so aren't independent. Maproom (talk) 13:10, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Cioppino

This dish originates from Italy, so in "country" I wrote "Italy", and as "region" I wrote "Liguria", but it's a typical dish from San Francisco, California; after "country" and "region" should I add "diffusion"? JackkBrown (talk) 11:53, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Do not assume that everything which is based on Italy or carries an Italian name is Italian. Do you have references which for your assertion that the dish originates from Italy? The article states (with a reference) that it originated in San Francisco then its country of origin should be "United States", and the region should be "California".

I have corrected the article. Bazza (talk) 12:11, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@Bazza 7: here in "Luogo d'origine" is indicated "Italia": https://it.wikipedia.org/Ciupp%C3%ACn. However, I now remove the template Portal Italy. JackkBrown (talk) 12:27, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

That's the Italian Misplaced Pages article for ciuppìn, a different topic. Its second sentence states "In San Francisco (United States of America), where the dish has become typical, the dish is called cioppino".

It looks like your changes to the origin were hasty. Bazza (talk) 12:42, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

i am a celebrity how to create my profile

as a celebrity how to create my profile Devtanuku (talk) 13:08, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Devtanuku We don't have profiles here, not a single one- so if you want to create a profile of yourself, you should do that on social media. Misplaced Pages has articles about topics that meet our criteria, such as a notable person. Those articles are typically written by independent editors wholly unconnected with the topic. Autobiographical articles are highly discouraged, please read the autobiography policy. 331dot (talk) 13:10, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

You are only a celebrity if reliable secondary sourcing says so. Also please bear in mind that a user page is not a social media profile. Breaking these rules will lead to deletion very quickly.--♦IanMacM♦ 13:12, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Copyrighted European Police photo?

May I upload the photo from "BIVOLARU, Gregorian". Europe's most wanted. 22 September 2017. Archived from the original on 26 November 2018. Retrieved 8 March 2019. to English Misplaced Pages? Or to Wikimedia Commons? This is a copyright matter. tgeorgescu (talk) 13:28, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

The website says "all rights reserved", so, no, it can't be uploaded period. 331dot (talk) 13:30, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

The site's legal notice says that, to use the personal data of the fugitives, including their pictures, you need to obtain permission from the member state that uploaded the data. Bazza (talk) 13:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@Tgeorgescu and Bazza: Those are two separate issues. First: the picture is copyrighted, so you cannot upload it. Second: the legal notice that mentions the data is questionable. The site published the data. Data by itself is not subject to copyright, as it has no "creative elements". I see no way they can enforce the use constraint on the data, e.g., by using the web site as a reference. The form of the web site is "creative" so you cannot upload a screenshot, but as far as Misplaced Pages is concerned you can use the data. Not the picture. Do remember that these individuals are living persons and use of the data on Misplaced Pages must follow WP:WLP WP:BLP. -Arch dude (talk) 15:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

I think that Arch dude meant WP:BLP. I would add that personal data is protected in the EU by the General Data Protection Regulation. I'm not sure what the implications of that are.... Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:27, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@Arch dude: I merely paraphrased what the website's own conditions state, which is that permission from the country which uploaded an image to the site must be obtained to use an image, and not euromostwanted.eu. That seems to suggest that an image's copyright is held by individual countries' authority whose permission is required to use an image. Bazza (talk) 18:00, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@Bazza: The copyright for an image is owned initially by the photographer. It cannot change ownership without a "writing". We have no idea if the photographer transferred the copyright, or to whom. We cannot use the photo unless we can see the "writing". So I think you are correct: the statement says that euromostwanted.eu does NOT own the copyright. However you cannot infer from that that the "country's authority" DOES own the copyright. All of this is entirely separate from the constraint on using the data. That constraint has nothing to do with copyright: it is an independent problem. -Arch dude (talk) 19:54, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@Arch dude: We're of the same opinion, I think. Regardless, there are enough hoops there to either discourage the thought of uploading, or to allow an admin to simply delete the upload if it attempted. Bazza (talk) 19:58, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Canzone napoletana

Obviously "Neapolitan song" should not be written in italics, but "canzone napoletana" should be written in italics? JackkBrown (talk) 15:10, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Generic phrases usually aren't written in italics. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 20:06, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Reverend Jonathan Fletcher

Reverend Jonathan Fletcher is a high profile Church of England clergyman, erstwhile Minister of Emmanuel Church Wimbledon and Conservative Evangelical by persuasion, currently being investigated for abuse. He has never denied the allegations. Fluffy Chick 6 (talk) 17:18, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

What is your question about editing Misplaced Pages?

This is mentioned in Emmanuel Church, Wimbledon. If you think there should be changes to that article, please suggest them on the talk page Talk:Emmanuel Church, Wimbledon. ColinFine (talk) 17:23, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Jonathan Fletcher, thought I recognized the name. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:28, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Bibliography

I'm working on the article of Raúl Alfonsín, it has a "Bibliography" section with the books about Alfonsín used as references. Alfonsín also wrote some books I was about to list, but there can't be two "Bibliography" sections with unrelated content, right? So how do I name them? Which one should stay as "Bibliography" and which one should have another name? "Further reading" does not seem a good option, I understand that would be for more books about Alfonsín as a topic, but not used as references so far. Cambalachero (talk) 18:44, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

§Publications is a commonly used section heading for a select collection of an author's writings.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 18:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@Cambalachero: If it confuses you, it will also confuse many of our readers. It confuses me, for one. How about just using unambiguous section names? I suggest "Publications by XXX" and "Publications about XXX". -Arch dude (talk) 05:00, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Help logging in

I already have a User Name -- WiKi says it's "Already in Use."

But I have not been able to log in with my password -- for multiple times.

And, I have not received an email for a Temporary Password -- for multiple times.

CAN YOU HELP ME? 2603:8000:6101:EE5:2935:5039:F733:5842 (talk) 18:59, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

You can see at Special:CentralAuth when the account was created and how many edits it has. Are you sure it's your account? PrimeHunter (talk) 19:23, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

How can I send you a check?

Aloha I have been very impressed by Misplaced Pages and I use it often

How can I send you a check to support your research?

Respectfully,

Vic 66.91.38.33 (talk) 19:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

See https://donate.wikimedia.org/Ways_to_Give for info. RudolfRed (talk) 19:42, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

December 1

University ranking RfC

A few months ago I found an RfC detailing whether or not articles about universities should have its ranking in the lead. I believe that consensus was to keep it out, but I've been unable to find this. Does anyone know where this is? I've removed a few rankings from a few leads but worry that I've made a mistake if I cannot find the RfC. —Panamitsu (talk) 00:22, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

@Panamitsu: Misplaced Pages:College and university article advice#Rankings links to WP:HIGHEREDREP. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:55, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

I am having trouble with Citations from a website through a proxy

I am editing an article and for the first time I have decided to use some information from some of the databases that my University provides me. However when I click to publish my edits I am given a warning about proxies. I was wondering what to do?

Thank you for your time,

Wnettles03 (talk) 03:24, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Wnettles03. It may be useful to read Misplaced Pages:Open proxies. If you need more information, Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical) is the best place to ask. Cullen328 (talk) 03:30, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Fixing disambiguation links

After closing the requested move at Talk:Rebase, Estonia and converting the redirect into a disambiguation page. I am having trouble fixing the links. At Vana-Kuuste, the template {{Adjacent stations}} will not target the right page after changing Rebase to Rebase, Estonia. Lightoil (talk) 05:07, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

@Lightoil:  Done. {{Adjacent stations}} works through Module:Adjacent stations and the specific list for Elron Module:Adjacent stations/Elron, where the station's name can be changed relatively easily. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 05:20, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

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