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Talk:Cattle

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Chiswick Chap (talk | contribs) at 08:23, 26 March 2024 (→Greenhouse gas percentage?: r). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 08:23, 26 March 2024 by Chiswick Chap (talk | contribs) (→Greenhouse gas percentage?: r)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

Cattle is currently an Agriculture, food and drink good article nominee. Nominated by Chiswick Chap (talk) at 16:51, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

An editor has indicated a willingness to review the article in accordance with the good article criteria and will decide whether or not to list it as a good article. Comments are welcome from any editor who has not nominated or contributed significantly to this article. This review will be closed by the first reviewer. To add comments to this review, click discuss review and edit the page.

Short description: Large, domesticated, cloven-hooved herbivores

Taurine cattle was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 10 March 2022 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Cattle. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.
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Former featured article candidateCattle is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.
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January 18, 2006Featured article candidateNot promoted

Recognition of climate change impacts on animal welfare

@Justlettersandnumbers: I did not remember to watchlist this page, and so was really disappointed to discover just now that you chose to completely revert the excerpts I added from effects of climate change on livestock with no prior discussion or warning. Further, I found your edit reason really confusing: thanks, but too much detail for this top-level article, and totally fails to address the elephant in the room – the effects of cattle on climate change.

If there was too much detail, then surely this could have been addressed by making the excerpts quote fewer paragraphs, rather than remove them entirely? Further, this article already has a very sizeable "Environmental impact" section, which devotes three paragraphs and a very clear graph to "the effects of cattle on climate change". That exact elephant in the room had already been addressed, seemingly adequately; the subject of animal welfare or even livestock productivity in the context of climate change had not been addressed at all until I added those excerpts - and now that you have removed them, they are still not addressed at all.

Surely, we can simultaneously acknowledge that cattle have a disproportionate impact on climate change and that they are starting to suffer from it, and will only experience more suffering the more it progresses? Or indeed, that the very business of rearing cattle for profit is not simply a large contributor to climate change, but also that it will become more difficult and less profitable as that very climate change gets more extensive? I don't think these points are in any contradiction with each other. On the contrary, they reinforce each other.

We can discuss the appropriate size of excerpts. I might even forego excerpts entirely in favour of a condensed section written for this article if you would consider that more appropriate. Yet, I consider covering these subjects in some form essential for the completeness of this article. InformationToKnowledge (talk) 13:43, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Well, you may be right, InformationToKnowledge - but I don't think a massive excerpt is the right way to go about that. If you want to add something about that topic here, why don't you just write it in the article in the ordinary way (with attribution for any copied material, of course)? Thanks, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:17, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
Bold@Justlettersandnumbers 170.173.74.51 (talk) 22:00, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
OK, how about now? InformationToKnowledge (talk) 13:51, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Estimated global cattle populations through history

I believe the addition of the above subject would be very useful to keep track of, especially considering the importance of cattle in the global food supply. The same could be said of other animals like bison, chicken, pigs, and so on. 14.192.208.130 (talk) 12:23, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

"User:Mr. Great Cow" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect User:Mr. Great Cow has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 November 15 § User:Mr. Great Cow until a consensus is reached. TNstingray (talk) 15:28, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

This page for all forms of domestic cattle?

I understand the rationale behind merging the taurine cattle page with this one, but as English Misplaced Pages caters to an international audience, i believe that the merged page(s) would've been a useful one if the wikipage for Cattle (currently this one) mentioned the other forms of cattle that originated from disparate domestication events, such as zebu, Indonesian cattle, gayal, and domestic yak, which come from either distinct populations or even entirely different species within Bos.

I therefore argue for the revival of the page Taurine/European cattle to accommodate the information specific to all cattle descended from the European Aurochs (adapted for temperate climates and diseases), and for this page's scope to be expanded to accommodate all forms of domesticated Bos. I leave the option to include other large-bodied domestic bovines, such as the water buffalo, for someone else to decide. Anthropophoca (talk) 06:47, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

If somebody actually put effort into writing a lengthy taurine cattle page, maybe I would consider it, but if it's just a lazy one paragraph stub just for the sake of it then that's a non-starter. If you actually want to split out taurine cattle again, I would suggest starting to work on a sandbox, and writing a substantial article at least 3000 words in length. Then it can be evaluated here. I would oppose the expanding of the scope to all domesticated Bos, because that's probably not what readers are looking for. Hemiauchenia (talk) 07:27, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Young female cattle (heifers), young male cattle (oxen or bullocks), and castrated male cattle (steers) are all colloquially called "cows".

By urbanites, yes. Not so simple among country folk who actually raise cattle, at least in the U.S. And used as a singular, a visitor to the farm/ranch referring to a male as a cow can trigger a response ranging from giggles expressing humor to smirks perceived as derision. Somewhat less so if an obvious steer is called a bull, since at least the m/f distinction is recognized, but a comment along the lines of "That's an ex-bull" would not be surprising. -- The question: why is this (semi-true, misleading) statement in the lede in the first place? Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 15:33, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, doesn't need to be in the lead. It's out now. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:51, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

Passed. Wolverine XI 07:16, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Cattle/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Chiswick Chap (talk · contribs)

Reviewer: Wolverine XI (talk · contribs) 19:56, 25 March 2024 (UTC)


Comments

This article is a bit undercooked in some areas. Fear not—for I will assist you in correctly cooking this article to fulfill the needs of the hungry readers. Well, tomorrow that is. Wolverine XI 19:56, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks. Chiswick Chap (talk) 00:29, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Reading now. Expect a review in 40 minutes. Wolverine XI 15:41, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Review

  • Why link male and females? Everyone knows the distinction
    • Gone.
  • In India, cattle are sacred animals. Needs more context
    • extended.
  • There were over 940 million cattle in the world in 2022. in => by
    • Edited.
  • Cattle are responsible for around 7% of global greenhouse gas emissions. Cattle were one of the first domesticated animals to have a fully-mapped genome. Don't start two consecutive sentences with the same word
    • Fixed.
  • kept on farms to produce meat, milk, and leather, and sometimes to pull carts or farm implements. What does this have to do with its physical attributes?
    • Moved.
  • Nothing about horn, skin color, body measurements, exceptional individuals.
    • Added.
  • Calves prefer their own mother's vocalizations to those of an unfamiliar mother. Unfamiliar mother?
    • Edited.
  • but less good at localising sounds than goats, and much less good than dogs or humans. Don't like the sound of "less good"
    • Edited.
  • Any reason why evolution is in that position?
    • We have the biology first - characteristics, behavior, genetics, evolution; then we have the human-facing aspects from husbandry to culture.
  • Poland, in about 1627. in about?
    • Fixed.
  • The meat of adult cattle is known as beef, and that of calves is veal. is veal => as veal
    • Done.
  • Other animal parts => other body parts
    • Fixed.
  • If the calf is male, it generally is slaughtered at a young age to produce veal. it generally is => it is generally. Sounds better, IMO
    • Fixed.
  • Around 22 litres per day is average in the UK. is average => on average
    • Edited.
  • BSE can cross into humans as the deadly variant Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease; 178 people in the UK died from it. Date? This can easily expire.
    • Added.
  • For "in culture", what about literature and media portrayals?
    • Added.

References

  • Hasheider 2011 needs page nos.
    • Replaced ref.
  • Hopper 2014 needs page nos.
    • Identifies chapters.
  • Coetzee 2013 needs page nos.
    • Added.
  • Grandin 2015 needs page nos.
    • Added.
  • Doyle & Moran 2015 needs page nos.
    • Added.
  • Glyn & Julian 2002 needs page nos.
    • Added.

Well, that took longer than expected. I guess I'm a slow reader, but the important thing is that I got the review done in a timely manner. Good work, almost GA-quality. Wolverine XI 16:54, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

All done to date, many thanks for the review. Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:05, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Driveby comment

Gone. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:27, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Greenhouse gas percentage?

@Chiswckchap As Lula has been in power for a while now so there is less deforestation would it be OR to ignore land use change and simply tick the 4 Climate Trace boxes which mention “cattle”? Also we could link to their methodology, which they explain in detail. Then the lead could just say “more than 4%” which is not likely to change for years.

I mean although the FAO is presumably a more reliable source than Climate Trace a lot has changed since 2015, and I have not yet been able to find the FAO methodology. Chidgk1 (talk) 07:17, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

It sounds extremely risky to me, so please, let's not do it. Further, this article is currently going through a GAN review, so it's definitely not a great moment. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:22, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
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