Talk:Fidesz - Misplaced Pages

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Euroscepticism of Fidesz

I think that the consensus on this topic is outdated, as almost all political analyst thinks the same, Fidesz is eurosceptic. (https://sciendo.com/pdf/10.2478/pce-2020-0009&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiOxpTa5Zn5AhXRhP0HHYOdDYMQFnoECAwQAg&usg=AOvVaw28Z_KRFuRXq9bFGVYsoA8F; https://www.jstor.org/stable/24919825; http://trulies-europe.de/?p=374; https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324442121_Euroscepticism_and_populism_in_Hungary_The_analysis_of_the_prime_minister's_discourse) And even in English Misplaced Pages, it is listed as eurosceptic. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/Category:Eurosceptic_parties_in_Hungary) Also, the Hungarian wikipedia lists it as eurosceptic, as well. (https://hu.m.wikipedia.org/Fidesz_%E2%80%93_Magyar_Polg%C3%A1ri_Sz%C3%B6vets%C3%A9g) Viktor Orbán, the prime minister of Hungary and the president of the Fidesz said in one of his speeches: „Brüsszel megtámadta Magyarországot”, or „Brussels attacked Hungary”. (https://miniszterelnok.hu/brussels-attacked-hungary/) Hungary had an advertisement campaign before the 2018 general elections, with the motto „Állítsuk meg Brüsszelt”, „Let's stop Brussels” in english, it cost 4.2 billion HUF or abozt 10.6 million US dollars. (https://ec.europa.eu/info/publications/stop-brussels-european-commission-responds-hungarian-national-consultation_en; https://m.hvg.hu/gazdasag/20170612_42_milliardbol_ment_az_Allitsuk_meg_Brusszelt_kampany) The Hungarian minister of finances, Mihály Varga said, that Hungary should rethink the EU membership at the end of this decade, because the country will no longer have financial benefit from it. (https://index.hu/gazdasag/2021/08/12/varga-mihaly-eu-kilepes-unios-forras/ ) Viktor Orban said in 2020 during one of his speeches in Portugal, that „az EU-n kívül is van élet”, which means that „there is life outside the EU”, raising concerns about the views of the Hungarian government on this topic. (https://m.hvg.hu/itthon/20200201_Orban_Az_Europai_Union_kivul_is_van_elet) Keehnan455 (talk) 20:00, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Consensus is that "euroscepticism", which is not even an ideology, should not be kept in the infobox. Fidesz is Eurosceptic and this is already mentioned through out the article. Vacant0 (talk) 20:02, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

But a lot of parties have this in their Misplaced Pages page, like the BZÖ in Austria, just to show one from them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/Alliance_for_the_Future_of_Austria Keehnan455 (talk) 20:06, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Here are five more parties, all from Belgium: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/Liberal_Democrats_(Belgium) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/Libertair,_Direct,_Democratisch https://en.m.wikipedia.org/People%27s_Party_(Belgium) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/Vivant https://en.m.wikipedia.org/Vlaams_Belang Keehnan455 (talk) 20:09, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Doesn't matter. What appears on other pages or wikis does not override the consensus that was reached for this page specifically. Vacant0 (talk) 20:10, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

But that means that the consensus is not in consensus with other pages. If there is a consensus from the opposite on these pages, that means that it should be applied here too, just to make Misplaced Pages more universal and transparent. It wouldn't make any sense to use a consensus on one page and an other for an other page about the same topic. Keehnan455 (talk) 20:14, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

There is no universal consensus that "euroscepticism" must be included in infoboxes, and just because it is included in some pages, it does not that this should apply to every other page. Page-specific consensus exists on this page, and on many others, and because of this "euroscepticism" should not be included in the infobox. Vacant0 (talk) 20:24, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

But it can case a false image that Fidesz is less eurosceptic than other parties, because those parties have euroscepticism included in the infobox, thus misinforming those people who don't want to read further in the page. Keehnan455 (talk) 20:30, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Euroscepticism is already mentioned in the lede, and considering that most of the readers do not go past this point, it's safe to assume that it won't create a false flag. Vacant0 (talk) 20:33, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

I don't think that the majority if the readers get to that point, personally, I usually stop at the infobox, as there is every information I want to know. And if someone is searching for the ideologies of the party, I bet that he/she won't read further too, except if he/she wants a very detailed information, but it's not quite common. So I still think that excluding this ideology from the infobox is misleading the readers. Keehnan455 (talk) 20:45, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Even the Hungarian version of this wiki page lists euroscepticism as one of the ideologies of Fidesz, so it would be good to have the same rules for at least the same pages. Keehnan455 (talk) 21:54, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

I've already said "What appears on other pages or wikis does not override the consensus that was reached for this page specifically". Euroscepticism is excluded for a reason. Vacant0 (talk) 13:08, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

For what reason? Keehnan455 (talk) 15:33, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Map of democratic backsliding

The map needs an addendum -> "according to University of Gothenburg" - instead of being presented as universal fact. 86.10.112.125 (talk) 01:47, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Hungarian Turanism on Ideology

Since Orban took power, Fidesz has clearly made clear they are turanists https://hungarianspectrum.org/2018/08/13/the-flowering-of-pseudo-science-in-orbans-hungary/ and hungary becoming an observer for Organization of Turkic States in 2018 82.14.227.184 (talk) 14:08, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

That source rather seems to be a WP:BLOG, we'll need a better one to back up the claim that they are promoting Turanism. Vacant0 (talk) 21:29, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Anti-LGBTQ ideology

The Fidesz is opposing the LGBTQ propaganda in Hungary, like the KDNP and the Our Homeland Movement party. These 3 political parties opposing the Same Sex Marriages, and the LGBT couples, who they adopting the children in Hungary. The Fidesz also opposes the LGBTQ ideology. That's why i created the Organisations that opposes LGBT rights in Hungary page. The Fidesz, the KDNP and the Our Homeland Movement is part of the Anti-LGBTQ ideology. Just these 3 parties. KovZXad1970 (talk) 20:07, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Non-neutral

In similar vein to my comment on the talk page of Criticism of Fidesz, this page is not neutral. Fidesz is known to be practically synonymous with Viktor Orbán, his political vehicle. There are ample sources that show how Fidesz has undermined democracy and the judiciary in Hungary and how it favours businesses linked to Viktor Orbán. A recent study concludes :

These effects clearly show the systemic prevalence of political favoritism under the Orbán regime: crony companies enjoy this policy. Thus, the results provide evidence that we can consider the Orbán regime as the instigator and supporter of a crony system in Hungary. Moreover, it can be argued that the favoritism prevailing in this system through family relationships and close friendships could be seen as a kleptocracy, where close friends could be fronts for the political leader himself.

The article also includes non-npov content, such as:

"The strong and preeminent Fidesz has benefited from the fragmented and disjointed opposition that has proved inept at mounting a unified challenge to the ruling party "...

Hungary is not seen as a democratic country any more by many academics and democracy raters. These are not subjective opinions but facts based on agreed metrics. This needs to be given more prominent scope in the article. --Jabbi (talk) 12:54, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

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