Misplaced Pages

Talk:Georgian Jews

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Orchastrattor (talk | contribs) at 22:57, 12 November 2024 (→Requested move 12 November 2024: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 22:57, 12 November 2024 by Orchastrattor (talk | contribs) (→Requested move 12 November 2024: Reply)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
This article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject iconJudaism Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Judaism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Judaism-related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JudaismWikipedia:WikiProject JudaismTemplate:WikiProject JudaismJudaism
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconJewish history Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jewish history on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish historyWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish historyTemplate:WikiProject Jewish historyJewish history-related
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconEthnic groups Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ethnic groupsWikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groupsTemplate:WikiProject Ethnic groupsEthnic groups
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks:

Here are some open WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks:

Feel free to edit this list or discuss these tasks.

WikiProject iconGeorgia (country) Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Georgia (country), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Georgia and Georgians on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Georgia (country)Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Georgia (country)Template:WikiProject Georgia (country)Georgia (country)
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconHistory Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconEuropean history Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject European history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the history of Europe on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.European historyWikipedia:WikiProject European historyTemplate:WikiProject European historyEuropean history
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconIsrael Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Project Israel To Do:

 Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:41, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Khazar-Theory dubunked for Georgian/Russian Jews

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100603/full/news.2010.277.html

To elaborate:

http://www.imninalu.net/Khazars.htm

Most of East European Jews migrated from the west to the east of the continent, and were not descended from the inhabitants of the Khazar Empire. They are actually a fusion of Balkan-Greek Jews from the Byzantine Empire, Babylonian Jews from the Abbasid Caliphate, Yiddish-speaking Jews from Germany, Sephardic Jews fleeing the Spanish inquisition, and Khazars. All these groups intermarried over the centuries, so that the Khazar converts disappeared as a distinguishable ethnical entity and their descendants became fully Jewish with Israelite ancestry.


--Wind2112 (talk) 03:51, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

documentation

Any documentation about the recently added remark about Gruzim in Austria? -- Jmabel 20:50, Sep 16, 2004 (UTC)

I wrote User:82.166.133.248 asking him if s/he could provide a source for the assertion. I've made a pretty thorough search of materials as well as a couple of google searches. My offline searches have turned up nothing, and the google searches that say that some Gruzim moved to Austria are just mirroring the assertion in wikipedia...not exactly authoritative. Tomer 01:03, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

Total population figures show 3200 georgian jews living in Georgia. Body of the article shows 13,000.

Inconsistent.

David Hiskiyahu. DavidHiskiyahu (talk) 21:10, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

research

eventually, i plan to get around to doing some research on georgia (not the state, though i might do THAT, too).

i basically know the, well, basics:

  • it's in the caucasus
  • it's people are called georgians
  • it's language is the georgian language

not very impressive, so far...

Gringo300 09:37, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

As a Georgian Jew, I can tell you that this page is full of errors. First of all, Georgian Jews do not refer to themselves as Gruzim, nor are they referred to as Gruzim by other Georgian speakers. They call themselves Ebraelebi, or Kartveli Ebraeli. The word Gruzim itself is erroneous, and has nothing to do with the Georgian language - GRUZINI or GRUZINIM is used by Hebrew speakers to refer to Georgian Jews. It is not a Georgian word, and definitely should not be used to classify Georgian Jews. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Irawolfe99 (talk • contribs) 22 May 2006.

I'm guessing that you know the topic better than those who've been working on it. I'd say "please, edit", but I'd also add that we'd greatly appreciate if you can provide citations, given the WP:NOR policy. - Jmabel | Talk 01:56, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

"Gruzim"

Agreed that neither the Georgian Jews themselves nor other Georgians call them "Gruzim", but isn't this the common name in Hebrew? And therefore worth mentioning? It has now been completely removed from the article except, oddly, in the phrase "the Gruzim speak the languages of the peoples surrounding them." - Jmabel | Talk 19:06, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

If you meet a Georgian Jews, they will be offended by this term "Gruzim." You can meet them actually at www.kartuli.com. But if you think it was unfair to remove the name, you may change it however, with help of sources. Thanks Ldingley 19:14, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
The Georgian jews called in Israel Gruzinim (more common) or Gruzim and for single Gruzini or Gruzi. It drive from the name Gruzia. So if Georgian jew identify himself Gruzini he means that he is Georgian. In Israel it will be obvious that he means Georgian jew. Now after the change of the name Gruzia to Georgia in Israel they the term Georgim (გეორგიმ) means either Georgians or Georgian jews. Geagea (talk) 10:51, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Synagogue photo

The first photo identified as 'Tbilisi Synagogue' is in fact a bathhouse and has never served as a religious building of any kind. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.5.16.251 (talk) 03:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

I have no independent knowledge about this. I hesitate to act on just this anonymous remark. The image comes from here; nothing there seems to say anything about the nature of the building; what is the basis for claiming that it is a synagogue (or for claiming that it never has been)? - Jmabel | Talk 19:12, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
The same issue has been raised at Commons:Image talk:SynagogueTbilisi.jpg. The uploader was contacted, and has not responded. I think the prudent thing to do for now is to remove the image from the article. - Jmabel | Talk 19:14, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

"related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 21:17, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Tbilisi Synagogue Pic

Perhaps this recent photo (Jan. 2007) of the main Tbilisi synagogue (built in 1904), after it underwent major restoration work could be used? http://www.flickr.com/photos/smooglie/366377447/

56 in Russia?!

...and yet I, an ethnic Russian-Ukrainian and atheist with no connection whatsoever to Georgia or Judaism, having spent only 3 years of the past decade in Russia, personally know about 10 of them (and yes, they were Georgian Jews, not Jewish Soviet nationals who have lived in Georgia)? Highly, highly doubtful. Anecdotal evidence from personal conversation points to Georgian Jews identifying themselves as 'Ethnicity - Georgian, Religion - Jewish', when in Russia, probably to avoid a lengthy ethnographic explanation (much like many Soviet expatriates often identify themselves as 'Russian' when living abroad, for simplicity's sake). Aadieu (talk) 02:51, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

It is not complitly anekdota. During the short live freedom of Georgia in 1918-1921, where two students Yosf and Mikhil khnanashvili that make an assumption that the Georgian jews are ethnic Georgian that racieve the Jewdaism. that assumption become popular among the Georgian elita. the claim was that thiere is no need different organisation for jews because they are Georgian baicly. more then that, whene tha Nazis were in the north borders of Georgia, they made pre-reserch about tha jews in the Caucasus and concluded that there is no evidence that the Georgian jews are Jews and it should be more reserch about that. Anyway the idea is interesting but more likly not true. the Georgiaan chrinicals tels us that the jews revieve holy Nino whene she came to Georgia fo her misionery trip. Geagea (talk) 12:19, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Prominent?

What makes Anzor Haimson notable enough to mention as a "prominent" Georgian Jew? A web search suggests that he is a jeweler, but indicates no particular notability. I suggest removing from the list. - Jmabel | Talk 16:18, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Similarly Jakov Katsobashvili. No online mention outside this article. - 16:20, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Conversely, Nodar Djin (born Nodar Djindjihashvili) probably should be linked; he probably deserves an article. - Jmabel | Talk 16:22, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Not a lost tribe of Israel

The origin of the Georgian Jews, as well as the others in the Caucausus, is most likely from a combination of the Judaean exiles from the destruction of the 1st Temple by the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar, and the Judaean exiles from the destruction of the 2nd Temple by the Romans, as well as later migrations of Jews from the Middle East and elsewhere.
There is no basis for the claim that Georgian Jews are descendants of the Israelites from the northern kingdom exiled by the Assyrians under Shalmanezer, who were resettled in the Habor region (northeeastern Syria/upper Mesopotamia) and the cities of the Medes (northwestern Iran), but ultimately became the "10 lost tribes of Israel", who quite simply cannot be accounted for (only the Samaritans' claim of descent appears to have validity). It was the descendants of the Judaean captives of Babylon and those who returned to Jerusalem during Cyrus, who adopted normative Judaism in the days of Ezra the scribe, when the Torah was canonized.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.68.95.65 (talk) 21:55, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Agree, but it is a idea that exist and should be mentioned in the article. Geagea (talk) 18:33, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Maybe useful

Hello, maybe these photos might be useful.

Regards,--Diaoha (talk) 18:20, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on History of the Jews in Georgia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 14:42, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on History of the Jews in Georgia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:59, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:History of the Jews in Abkhazia which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:06, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Blood libel

There’s a section claiming blood libels continued to happen but it isn’t backed up by a source, nor have I been able to find one. 92.3.59.71 (talk) 19:06, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 12 November 2024

It has been proposed in this section that Georgian Jews be renamed and moved to History of the Jews in Georgia (country).

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

Georgian Jews → History of the Jews in Georgia (country) – I was asked by IZAK to make this as a technical move, but I think it needs confirmation via RM. These articles are standardized at titles beginning "History of the Jews in...", but there have been various alternative endings to the title proposed and/or used at various times, including "History of the Jews in the Republic of Georgia" (this isn't a great one because Georgia obviously has a much longer history than any single political entity), "History of the Jews in Georgia", etc. What should the end of this title be? Thanks. asilvering (talk) 20:56, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Strong oppose This is not an article on the history of the Jews in Georgia. This is an article on a specific Jewish ethnic group that happens to be named after Georgia as its country of origin. Ashkenazi and Mountain Jews have their own historical presence in the country of Georgia and neither's history therein is covered by this article.
An article for all Jews of any ethnicity is instead under construction at Draft:History of the Jews in Georgia, where you are welcome to contribute instead. Orchastrattor (talk) 22:55, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
As clearly stated in the lead, a majority of the ethnic group in question does not even reside in Georgia. Orchastrattor (talk) 22:57, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
Categories: