Talk:Bethlehem - Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Donald Albury (talk | contribs) at 15:45, 24 December 2024 (→section 'Economy' : dead calm since 7 October 2023: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 15:45, 24 December 2024 by Donald Albury (talk | contribs) (→section 'Economy' : dead calm since 7 October 2023: Reply)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Bethlehem article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 30 days

Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

Bethlehem has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
January 22, 2008	Good article nominee	Listed

Facts from this article were featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on December 21, 2016, December 21, 2019, and December 21, 2020.

This

level-5 vital article is rated GA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Arab world Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Arab world, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Arab world on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Arab worldWikipedia:WikiProject Arab worldTemplate:WikiProject Arab worldArab world
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Holidays: Christmas Mid‑importance

	Holidays portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Holidays, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of holidays on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HolidaysWikipedia:WikiProject HolidaysTemplate:WikiProject HolidaysHolidays
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Christmas task force (assessed as High-importance).

Christianity: History / Christmas Mid‑importance

	Christianity portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Christian history.
	This article is supported by Christmas task force (assessed as High-importance).

Cities

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cities, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of cities, towns and various other settlements on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CitiesWikipedia:WikiProject CitiesTemplate:WikiProject CitiesWikiProject Cities

Judaism Mid‑importance

	Judaism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Judaism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Judaism-related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JudaismWikipedia:WikiProject JudaismTemplate:WikiProject JudaismJudaism
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Jewish history Mid‑importance

	Judaism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jewish history on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish historyWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish historyTemplate:WikiProject Jewish historyJewish history-related
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Palestine Top‑importance

	Palestine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Misplaced Pages. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Israel Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Project Israel To Do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page.
Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration.
Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel.
Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah
See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Misplaced Pages.
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data.
Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes.
Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention.
Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Misplaced Pages requested maps in Israel.
NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
Photo : Add pictures to articles in Misplaced Pages requested photographs in Israel.
Stubs : See Israel stubs.
Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
Other :
- Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary.

Greece: Byzantine High‑importance

	Greece portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Greek history on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Byzantine world task force.

Classical Greece and Rome High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Misplaced Pages's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Fortifications / Middle East / Ottoman / Roman & Byzantine / Classical / Medieval / Early Muslim / Crusades / Early Modern

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

Associated task forces:
/
	Fortifications task force
	Middle Eastern military history task force
	Ottoman military history task force
	Roman and Byzantine military history task force
	Classical warfare task force (c. 700 BC – c. 500 AD)
	Medieval warfare task force (c. 500 – c. 1500)
	Early Muslim military history task force (c. 600 – c. 1600)
	Crusades task force
	Early Modern warfare task force (c. 1500 – c. 1800)

Archives

1, 2

This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.

Language

Why does Bethlehem have the Hebrew name in its opening sentence, while Jaffa does not have the Arabic name in its own? What is the relevant guideline on this issue? And how can consistency be maintained without prejudice relating to the names of Palestinian cities? Makeandtoss (talk) 07:37, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Edit Request - remove poorly sourced content

I am requesting the removal of the following line from the article: "Yasser Arafat, then the leader of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), unilaterally replaced the predominantly Christian city council with a leadership that was largely Muslim."

The reason for this request is that the statement is based on poor source, and it does not meet Misplaced Pages's verifiability and reliability standards. The source is an article in an Israeli right-wing website ynetnews, the article was also edited by WorldNetDaily, an American far-right website that is notorious for spreading far-right conspiracy theories like the "Obama wasn't born in the US" conspiracy. I suggest either removing the statement or finding a more reliable source to substantiate the claim. Thank you. Omar Jabarin (talk) 19:41, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Edit request - first phrase

Hi, many people wonder if Bethlehem is in Israel or Palestine, that’s why I liked the previous opening sentence - “Bethlehem is a city in the West Bank, in the State of Palestine…”, but I see that it has recently been changed to “…is a city in the Israeli-occupied West Bank”, which of course is factually correct, but in my opinion saying first thing that it is Israeli-occupied makes it seem like it is Israeli, more so than Palestinian. What about removing the “Israeli” from the first line, only to make it clear it is Palestinian, and leaving the part about Israeli occupation where it is already mentioned, further down? Thank you. 2A00:A041:3B9A:AC00:11E2:7CD6:40A5:1A3C (talk) 18:29, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

I suggest we change the introduction to "Bethlehem is a Palestinian city in the Israeli-occupied West Bank". This adds clarity to the legal status of the city. Zoozoor (talk) 21:52, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

@Remsense

Hello, I see that you reverted the first sentence to include "Israeli-occupied" before West Bank.

While this is an accurate description, some of us would prefer it be rephrased, so that the UN legal status of the city (Palestinian) is more obvious to readers who wish to skim the article.

I'd like your input on this discussion so we can make an informal consensus about the lead. Zoozoor (talk) 23:48, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure. I think the present phrasing is pretty clear and doesn't really create the problem you describe. Remsense ‥ 论 05:12, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Etymology

'לחם' in any context does not mean food.

'בית לחם' can only mean 'house of bread'.

I wanted to edit it, but since it is closed I can not, so here I am. Hwndqkjep (talk) 16:44, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Edit request - failed source verification

The article includes the line, "Christian families that have lived in Bethlehem for hundreds of years are being forced to leave as land in Bethlehem is seized, and homes bulldozed, for construction of thousands of new Israeli homes." The citation, source , does not corroborate this. The closest the article (which is not directly hyperlinked for some reason?) comes is in the paragraph: "Down in Beit Sahour, which is mostly Christian, residents of one housing development have been living under the threat of demolition for more than a decade since an Israeli court ruled its building illegal. The order was frozen but never lifted, leaving families in limbo, wondering if or when the bulldozers will arrive and where they will go if they do. “This is the only place left for us,” says William Sahouri, whose family has lived in the area for more than 300 years. “There are no lands to expand.”"

As you can see, this article does not allege that even a single Christian family was actually forced anywhere. The "lived in Bethlehem for hundreds of years" is in reference to a single family, that had lived "in the area", whose presence as far as the article is concerned is still in Bethlehem, and they are not even explicitly identified as Christian. The claim that Christian families are being forced out is not substantiated by the article, for reasons of constructing new Israeli homes or for any other reason.

I request that the article be edited to reflect what the source actually says.

Here is the article: https://www.thetimes.com/article/settlements-choke-peace-in-the-little-town-of-bethlehem-mkczz7vgvvz 2600:1700:67A8:230:43:4E0C:6A70:7096 (talk) 05:22, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Edit request - "effected"

Please can someone effect this change in the lead:

Aspects of life in and around Bethlehem are effected by the Israeli occupation of the West Bank. → Aspects of life in and around Bethlehem are affected by the Israeli occupation of the West Bank

Per widely accepted usage, see affect and effect. Mediocre.marsupial (talk) 02:18, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Fixed by undoing the recent edit that happened to introduce the error, and I found not to be an improvement regardless. Remsense ‥ 论 02:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

section 'Economy' : dead calm since 7 October 2023

on 7 October 2023, Hamas and other terror groups launched the 7 October Hamas-led attack on Israel. Since then, there is almost no tourism in Israel. Bethlehem haslost two peak seasons: Christmas 2023 and 2024. poverty and unemployment have risen.

https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/asien/weihnachten-bethlehem-krieg-nahost-102.html (2023)

https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/korrespondenten/bethlehem-im-westjordanland-weihnachten-im-krieg-100.html (2024) 178.203.109.225 (talk) 09:37, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

An English-language source: Associated Press. Donald Albury 15:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Categories: