Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Onefortyone (talk | contribs) at 13:51, 14 September 2005. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

• Archive: Talk:Elvis_Presley/archive1
• Archive: Talk:Elvis_Presley/archive2
• Archive: Talk:Elvis_Presley/archive3
• Archive: Talk:Elvis_Presley/archive4

If you're here to have a look because of the RfC, please read archives 3 and 4 first, thank you. Wyss 10:36, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Notice

There is no better demonstration of how some Misplaced Pages users, who are presumably part of the world-wide Elvis industry (User:Wyss himself recently claimed to have had contact with the managers), are trying to suppress opinions which are not in line with their personal view, although several independent sources (published books, reviews, articles, websites) say that there is some evidence that Elvis may have had homosexual affairs with men and that some Hollywood actors, such as Elvis's friend Nick Adams, were gay. The more I think about their biased statements (see, for instance, and ) the more I think Professor David S. Wall is right when he says that one of the strategies of the worldwide Elvis industry is " 'community policing' to achieve governance at a distance and typically effected through the various fan clubs and appreciation societies to which the bulk of Elvis fans belong. These organisations have, through their membership magazines, activities and sales operations, created a powerful moral majority that can be influenced in order to exercise its considerable economic power." Now these people are acting against different opinions in Misplaced Pages articles which do not support a favorable view of the singer. I do not think that this is a neutral point of view according to the Misplaced Pages guidelines. Onefortyone 22:30, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

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By a majority of users of this forum, we find the behaviour of user Onefortyone disruptive, his contributions single-minded, his tactics dishonest. As shown in the plentiful replies to his edits and posts on the talk page, we have adressed all his contributions, yet he repackages his ideas into new forms using the same tactics as before.

We choose not to address his post/edit in an intelligent manner, which we have done a multitude of times in the past, but rather to place this segment of text to show other WP users and administrators that it is not the case that Onefortyone is being discriminated against. It is not the case that NPOV is threatened. It is the case that we have run out of resources to continue our battle with him and resort to a new measure.

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(129.241.134.241 03:00, 14 September 2005 (UTC))

As I have said here I don't feel User:129.241.134.241's way of dealing with this situation is appropriate. Taking it to WP:RFC is the appropriate step. I've posted this article at Articles for Comment to get some more feedback. If you feel that Onefortyone's actions are inappropriate, then you should follow accepted procedure, rather than making what amount to arbitrary rulings.

As I have also said, I have no connection with Elvis Presley. I'm not much of a fan of his at all, beyond one or two songs. My objection is that the sources for the rumours are entirely without credibility (as I have stated when the sources were presented), and that new sources are being sought out to support Onefortyone's established point of view that Elvis was gay, rather than assessing the strength of all the evidence. KeithD (talk) 07:43, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I should add that I have no connection with Elvis Presley, his family or his management and never have, nor have I ever even been a fan (except for a couple of his earliest Sun rockabilly recordings I guess).

• I could care less about his bedroom forays, or "preserving" his memory- I think EP was a drug-adled mess truth be told... what I do care about is the appropriate sourcing and building a reliable, helpful and reasonably accurate, balanced encyclopedia from the documented record.

• Disclosure (since as wonted, 141 is trying to twist something I wrote): The only personal connection I may have with the story has to do with some pictures 141 mentioned since I do have a long ago connection with Liberace's management, whose article I have worked on extensively by the bye and who was unambiguously gay (although this was publicly denied during his lifetime) and which is plainly reflected, through references to the widely documented public record, in Lee's article. Moreoever I'm no "fan" of Lee in any esthetic or musical sense, other than to say he was among the nicest people I ever met (and I'd say what they call a "true show business professional"), which made a big impression on me as a little girl when he was on the periphery of my life before he tragically died.

• Readers are invited to take this as an indication I'm more than willing to characterize someone's lifestyle in an article when the historical record supports it and any mention of it is handled in an encyclopedic way. Wyss 09:45, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

The Facts

I have detected lots of additional sources which support the view that Elvis may have had homosexual or bisexual leanings.

One of the first sources alleging that Elvis may occasionally have had homosexual leanings is from 1957. The Guardian writes,

When he brought Priscilla back to the States to live at Graceland, ostensibly under the chaperoning protection of his father Vernon and his new wife Dee, Elvis also brought back a taste for womanising. From now on, the restraints were off. The partying that had, in 1957, drawn thinly-veiled accusations of homosexuality - a scandal mag ran an article with the headline 'Presley's Powder-Puff Pals', showing a picture of Elvis and Liberace with the caption 'Two prominent bachelors' - was now progressing into fully-blown orgies.

It should be noted in this connection that gay entertainer Liberace was eulogized in Time magazine as "a synonym for glorious excess." The writer went on to say, "Liberace was a visual, rather than an acoustic phenomenon. He charted a path followed by the unlikeliest of proteges, from Elvis Presley to Elton John and Boy George: the sex idol as peacock androgyne." Significantly, Elton John and Boy George are gay. Thus the 1957 article with the headline 'Presley's Powder-Puff Pals', showing a picture of Elvis and Liberace with the caption 'Two prominent bachelors' certainly supports the claim that Elvis had an affair with Liberace.

Some independent sources say that Presley was involved in a homosexual relationship with actor Nick Adams. In an unpublished but often cited manuscript book, entitled The Intimate Life and Death of Elvis, and an article in the National Enquirer Elvis's stepmother Dee Presley claims that there was a relationship between Elvis and his mother Gladys and that the singer had sexual encounters with men, particularly with his friend Nick Adams.

In his book, The Boy who would be King: An Intimate Portrait of Elvis Presley by his Cousin (1990), Earl Greenwood, Elvis's second cousin who paled around with Elvis for many years before and after his success, says that Elvis had an affair with Nick Adams. In his positive review of the book in the Library Journal, David M. Turkalo (Social Law Lib., Boston), says,

Having literally grown up with Elvis Presley in Tupelo and Memphis, Greenwood also served his cousin for some years as his press agent, claiming a front-row seat for the best and the worst of rock music's late king. As with so much written about him, this book is simultaneously interesting and lurid and often the former because it is the latter. But its saving grace, in addition to being well written, is Greenwood's closeness to Presley, rendering this an eyewitness account (the first ever by a blood relative) to the formative childhood years and the inner workings of the Presley family that played such a large part in the musician's personality development. Revelatory and credible in these and other areas, but never descending to either blathering idolatry or merciless crucifixion (a la Albert Goldman), this fast-paced, no-white-wash look at the rock icon will surely find an audience among the millions for whom Elvis Presley still holds fascination.

There is indeed much evidence that Elvis's friend, actor Nick Adams was gay. Although the assertions that Adams was homosexual are not based on a public "outing" on his part, he regularly appears on lists of famous gay people. In an interview of 1972, homosexual actor Sal Mineo says that Adams had told him that he and his roommate, James Dean had a big affair. Gavin Lambert, a reputed biographer and insightful chronicler of Hollywood and himself part of the gay circles in Hollywood of the 1950s and 1960s, knew Adams well. He says in his biography on Natalie Wood, "Her first studio-arranged date with a gay or bisexual actor had been with Nick Adams, whom the publicity department considered a more likely "beau" than Sal Mineo for the New York premiere of Rebel." According to some other accounts, before his success as an actor Adams was a male prostitute catering to men. In Boze Hadleigh's book Hollywood Gays (1996) a young Nick Adams is described as a Hollywood hustler and the author concludes the actor may have "hustled while looking for acting jobs in the 1950s." James Dean also claimed to have worked with his friend Adams as a street hustler when he first arrived in Hollywood. Judy Spreckels, Presley's platonic girlfriend, who was like a sister to Elvis, a companion, confidante and keeper of secrets in the early days of his career, also remembers going out with Elvis and his friend Nick Adams. "He told me secrets that I never told and will never tell," she says. "I had nothing to do with being a yes man for him and obviously he trusted me. Anything he told me was not going to go to any publication. I am the only person who was around Elvis who was a writer and didn't write a book. I felt secrets were secrets."

In Elvis: The Hollywood Years (2001), author David Bret says that Presley, apart from his many relationships with women, had homosexual leanings. He writes, "Adams, who since Jimmy's death had admitted that they had been lovers during the shooting of Giant, later claimed that he had had a brief affair with Elvis after Elvis had 'agreed to be his date' for a preview performance of his 1956 film, The Last Wagon." Bret (who made a career on sensationalized claims of homosexuality of deceased male celebrities) even alleges to have unearthed "the truth about the powerful hold exercised over Elvis by 'Colonel' Tom Parker, which revolved around Parker preventing a leak about Presley's relationship with another man from going public and then using this knowledge as a persistent threat to ensure his protégé's loyalty." That is why Parker had so much control over the star.

However, David Bret has been criticized by some readers for being careless and even inventive with basic facts in his various books about celebrities and Dee Presley has been criticized for having personal and financial motives for her claims.

On the other hand, Elvis reportedly spent most of his time with men from the so-called Memphis Mafia. Among them were Sonny West, Red West, Billy Smith, Marty Lacker and Lamar Fike. These men themselves state that they used to hang with Elvis all day and night, that there was a code of silence within the group during Elvis's lifetime, and that they protected his name and image. Elvis's strong relationships with these men at least prove that he seems to have had a natural enthusiasm for homosocial contacts.

Other testimonies have also been said to point to homosexuality. In Elvis by the Presleys, the singer's ex-wife, Priscilla Presley claims that Elvis was not overtly sexual towards her and that they did not have sex until the night of the wedding. Parts of the lyrics to the song "Jail-house Rock" may also be interpreted as being homo-erotic. There are even plays alluding to Presley's supposed homosexuality. At one point of Lee Hall's Cooking with Elvis, the singer starts making bizarre speeches about sodomites. According to reviewer Rich See, this strange behaviour can be interpreted as a "reference to the gay rumors that continue to swirl around the King of Rock and Roll -- his obsession with James Dean and an alleged affair with actor Nick Adams." The Guardian reports that director Bryan Forbes once asked whether Mick Jagger "could confirm whether Elvis was gay." Several Elvis impersonators, such as Elvis Herselvis, allude to the claims that Elvis had homosexual affairs with men. On some websites there are also interesting discussions concerning Elvis's sex life and his homosexual leanings. PROMETHEUS, the Internet Bulletin for Art, Politics and Science, No. 90 (Winter 2003), says,

The excitement about rumors about Prince Charles opened up in Europe the discussion about the sex-lives of other prominent personalities. To them belongs the unforgettable Elvis Presley, who was stationed as a young soldier in Germany. Up to now it has been a tabu to publicly speculate about the sexual predisposition of Elvis Presley. While the "King of Rock" has been spared by the media, other prominent personalities were forced to come out of the closet. ...

In order to bring light on the private secrets of deceased Hollywood stars, a team of experts in Europe is collecting information also about Elvis Presley. One source are eyewitnesses, who have been privately associated as friends and acquaintances with Elvis Presley.

One of the sources they present is this personal photograph, presumably taken by a gay friend, from the beginning of Presley's military service showing Elvis half naked with one of his male friends: The author adds,

The question is already now: how will the Elvis fans take the possible bisexuality of their idol? Will it bring protests and denials, or rather tolerance and understanding for the great singers? A sensitive side of Presley could even increase people's affection for him, according to the opinion of some Presley fans.

This is another independent source supporting the view that Elvis had homosexual leanings.

However, out of over 2,000 books published about Elvis Presley, there are only a few sources dealing with these claims. On the other hand, it should be taken into account that, while most authors do describe Elvis as heterosexual, they are writing in the context of a worldwide Elvis industry which has a tendency towards supporting only favorable views of the singer, as Professor David S. Wall has pointed out in some critical articles. Onefortyone 13:51, 14 September 2005 (UTC)