Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Cma (talk | contribs) at 13:31, 30 November 2008 (→Floro's latest: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Coming here to ask why I reverted your edit? Read this page first...

Please leave me new messages at the bottom of the page; click here to start a new section at the bottom. I usually notice messages soon. I attempt to keep conversations in one location, as I find it easier to follow them that way when they are archived. If you open a new conversation here, I will respond to you here. Please watchlist this page or check back for my reply. If I have already left a message at your talk page, unless I've requested follow-up here or it is a standard template message, I am watching it. If you leave your reply here, I may respond at your talk page if it seems better for context. If you aren't sure if I'm watching your page, or I'm slow to reply, feel free to approach me here.

Talk archives:
User talk:Dougweller/Archives/2008/February
User talk:Dougweller/Archives/2008/March
User talk:Dougweller/Archives/2008/April
User talk:Dougweller/Archives/2008/May

You can email me from this link but in the interests of Wiki-transparency, please message me on this page unless there are pressing reasons to do otherwise. Comments which I find to be uncivil, full of vulgarities, flame baiting, or that are are excessively rude may be deleted without response. If I choose not to answer, that's my right, don't keep putting it back. I'll just delete and get annoyed at you.

Sodom and Gomorrah

The reason I posted the change, I wanted to see how long conservative truth lasts on the Misplaced Pages page of a controversial subject and what kind of PC police force Misplaced Pages has, if any at all. Unbelievable! That revision lasted only minutes!

What I'd said was truth exposed, and that cannot be bigotry.

When you'd said that I'd removed "existing text." So, what's your point? That's what Misplaced Pages is all about. Misplaced Pages encourages people on this site to add, subtract and edit content with wreckless abandon, and you have to know that already. You've made it sound like nobody can touch this page, because it's set in stone. Well, let me give you the same advice that was given to me on this site. You don't own the "Sodom and Gomorrah" page. But, obviously, the page has people watching the site so closely that it not only doesn't pay to try to edit this page, it's shown itself to be of no value to anyone seeking conservative scholarship, if I'd have chosen to include some of that on that page.

However, I have to add that in order for me to have been really legit, I did need to cite sources. If I would've added sources to my comment, then what you did would've been really wrong, because all you seem to be about is slandering, marginalizing and eventually silencing the conservative voice. Canihaveacookie (talk)

Olsson "Editors"

Hey Doug, I would like your help again. Paul Smith and another editor 'Loremaster' have repeatedly harrassed Olsson at Misplaced Pages. Time after time they have removed all positive references and sources from her Wiki page. I cannot continue to deal with these people. Is there someone I can turn to for mediation? Thank You. Alexis

Sorry

I grew up in school with BC and I'm just not used to BCE yet. I'm not doing this for religious reasons. But sorry for the edit. AaronPaige (talk) 14:57, 22 June 2008 (EST)

I sorta agree with this guy. I'm a pretty devout Western Roman Catholic and dang proud of it. I was raised on B.C., before Christ, and I don't appreciate these "threats" being made to me. And make no mistake, every time I see BCE or CE, I will change it.

You have been warned.

Jaet —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.148.126.104 (talk) 23:16, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Edit-warring against "the unofficial global standard, recognized by international institutions such as the United Nations and the Universal Postal Union"? You are asking to be blocked from editing. --Hans Adler (talk) 09:45, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Midewiwin

I see now that that was an unproductive edit. My apologies. ClovisPt (talk) 19:37, 2 July 2008

SmackBot

Thanks. Rich Farmbrough 10:30 21 September 2008 (UTC).

Image

Hi Doug, I was wondering if you know how where I have to go to give a reason to keep this beloved image for a GA review for Battle of Hyrba, here are the links that will help you answer my question, ], ]. As you will find out, it will be deleted tommorow, so I will greatly appreciated if you respond on my page today. I solemnly apolagize if I might have ever offended you earlier, and I want to thank you for your helping hand in previous events. I can honestly say you have helped me here more than anyone else on Misplaced Pages, a true mentor. Best regards and goodbye.--Ariobarza (talk) 23:10, 21 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

edit on Papua mythology moved out of this section. dougweller (talk) 18:01, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

You guys lost me, (are these two comments above in relation with my question) and how is this answering my question? Doug if the comments do not have anything to do with what I am saying here, tell OXQ to comment somewhere else, so please reread my question, I thank you.--Ariobarza (talk) 07:29, 22 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

It's too late now, the image is now deleted. Thanks for helping me save the image...--Ariobarza (talk) 07:46, 22 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

I have been away all day being taught by an Italian chef how to cook exotic meat and game. I am afraid I only noticed OXQ's edit -- you are right, he definitely should not have done that. But looking at the links, I don't think I could have come up with a way to save it, sorry. Please though, stop the sarky remarks, they show a real lack of good faith. dougweller (talk) 18:01, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Come on... Sarky comments? Doug you know, as an adult, one should not be offended by sarky comments. This has nothing to do if I have good faith with you or not. A joke is a joke, you must evolve into a new state of conscienceness, I am always happy, and I had a smile on my face when I said that. A big smile! "Don't worry, be happy." Byebye.--Ariobarza (talk) 02:59, 23 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza

Doug, you have been warned. ----Shadow

Egypt list

I don't personally don't update it as I am unfamiliar with it. It is Captmondo (Keith) who does the updating here. Thank You, --Leoboudv (talk) 21:47, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

I assume anyone can update it. I certainly have added several articles this week which should be in it. I use it to check on vandalism. I guess I should check with Keith though, thank you for mentioning him. dougweller (talk) 21:49, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Indefinite IP blocks

Hey again, I noticed you indefinitely blocked the following IP addresses:

• 68.153.118.30 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
• 213.100.68.170 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
• 67.186.20.215 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

Per Misplaced Pages:Blocking IP addresses, IP addresses should almost never be indefinitely blocked (as you probably now know due to the message you recently left on my talk page). Do you have a problem with unblocking (or at least reblocking these IPs for a set period of time)? I've reviewed the history of each of these IPs and I personally would have blocked the first for a month (would be expired by now), the second for no more than a week (would have been expired by now), and the third for no more than a week (also would have been expired by now). From my understanding we should only indefinitely block IP addresses in extreme cases, such as a WP:OFFICE or perhaps an OTRS action. Thanks, VegaDark (talk) 22:34, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

I've unblocked 215, but I'm a bit uncertain about this still as I note another administrator, User:Zzuuzz put an indef block noticed on the user page it and also for 170, thus obviously agreeing with me about the indef blocks. Should I contact them to say I've unblocked? What do I do about the notices on user/talk pages, remove them or add another notice? Thanks. dougweller (talk) 06:42, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, and you don't need to leave a message to ZZuuzz. I'm pretty sure he was just matter-of-fact tagging it so the IP would show up in the proper category. I'm pretty sure he or a bot goes through every once in a while to remove/add the indefblocked IP template from pages, I'm not sure if he reviews to see if he actually agrees with the blocks or not. Thus, you can remove the template if you want but it will eventually be removed whether you do or not. As for removing indefblock notices on talk pages, you can if you want. I don't when I unblock, since usually the pages are so scattered with warnings that I doubt it would make a difference. VegaDark (talk) 07:09, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the explanation. I won't remove them and doubt that the users involved even read the pages themselves. dougweller (talk) 07:16, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

If an IP continues to disrupt after being unblocked, feel free to re-block for whatever time you feel is justified, as long as it isn't indef (usually 1 year is the max regular block length, but a few months is a lot more common). Since they are discussing it on the talk page though, you may want to hold off unless they ignore consensus. VegaDark (talk) 16:01, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm holding off, but if he continues to edit in contradiction of the references, etc, I may block him again. I appreciate your advice. dougweller (talk) 17:05, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Sofia Shinas

Hi. I hate to drag up old stuff, but I wanted to direct your attention to Talk:Sofia Shinas#Birth Date - This may solve it.... A Los Angeles Times article seems to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the birth certificate forwarded to OTRS and the 1974 birth date alleged by it. Wildhartlivie (talk) 08:24, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Florentino

Doug, could you explain to me why you blocked User:Florentino floro? I would like to facilitate his unblock if possible, and I am hoping we can determine some reasonable conditions for that. Everyking (talk) 09:22, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

You'll need to take this to ANI. He appears to be mentally ill and no one objected to his block, quite the opposite.You've seen the discussion about his user page, also see and although hopefully you already have. Start a new ANI section on unblocking him would be my suggestion. I will oppose it given his refusal to acknowledge any wrongdoing at the very least. I don't think he is able to function as a Misplaced Pages editor, and given his threat to use sockpuppets and the earlier creation of sockpuppets, I expect some will oppose him just for those reasons. I also will say that I don't think he can work within a community on a truly collaborative basis, probably because of his evident mental problems. dougweller (talk) 12:34, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

What if he acknowledges wrongdoing? Everyking (talk) 17:43, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I think his problems prevent him from doing this meaningfully, for a start. Also, scroll just up from here: . He has also said he would continue editing, he has at least 3 now blocked sockpuppets (he vigorously denies this one, although it seems pretty clear that it is a sockpuppet of his). As I said, you can and more or less must take such a request to ANI, but I don't think it will fly. dougweller (talk) 19:28, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I am well aware of the difficulty of obtaining a consensus in that setting, particularly considering that people have taken to characterizing him as an lunatic, and I would much prefer it if you would agree to unblock him, or at least outline some conditions. Is it your position that Florentino is fundamentally incapable of functioning as a worthwhile editor and that there are no conditions in which an unblock would be appropriate? Everyking (talk) 04:58, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that is my position, but even if I felt differently I would still take it back to ANI considering the response to my blocking him. I would not consider doing it unilaterally. dougweller (talk) 06:12, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't think your position is compatible with the some of the philosophy behind Misplaced Pages; I think it's necessary that, if someone is going to be blocked, we need to articulate reasons for that block that can actually be addressed by that person within the context of Misplaced Pages if he or she wishes to resume editing. That way, we give everyone a fair opportunity to get back in. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to articulate something like "needs to be more civil"? Florentino could then undertake to be more civil and we could watch his behavior carefully for a while to ensure that he was sticking to his promise. Everyking (talk) 07:26, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Did you not read the original discussion? He has been politely asked to be more civil many, many times before. He has also been politely asked to refrain from doing the things he does--adding useless trivia, prophesying disaster, threatening people with curses. Each time he was asked to, he replied with an incomprehensible rant, followed by edits that clearly showed he did not follow any of the advice. And keep in mind that people have been asking him this since 2006. Check his talk page and the archives for yourself. He was not blocked for being a lunatic but for harassment, and there are plenty of non-derogatory reasons to keep him blocked, as articulated in the original discussion and even the RfC. I realize that people are coming down hard on him in the ANI page, but that's no reason to make the jump from defending him to saying he should be unblocked. There are plenty of valid reasons to keep him blocked. --Migs (talk) 08:47, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

On a few occasions early in Florentino's editing history, I gave him some editing advice and he reacted positively; I was subjected to no incomprehensible rants (although, of course, I have seen him indulge in such rants when talking to others—I just want to stress that's not the whole picture). I also think we need to keep in mind that Doug's block is only the second block Florentino has ever received. It's not exactly normal to move so quickly to an indef block when dealing with a long-term, industrious editor. Isn't it reasonable to think that a series of short blocks might have helped guide his behavior? We don't know how he would have reacted because we haven't tried that approach. Everyking (talk) 09:25, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

(unindent) Please keep this discussion on ANI so everyone can see it. No one else wants to unblock him, and what is strange is that he only has one block. Even his response to the block shows that unblocking him wouldn't bring about a new Floro following Misplaced Pages guidelines and policies, by the way. And that blog of his... if he had a clue and an interest, he'd have wiped most of it. dougweller (talk) 10:02, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Protection for Hatshepsut

Dear Doug, If you please, I request some form of page protection for Hatshepsut ASAP.

• There has been massive and repeated vandalism of this article by numerous anonymous IPs: Just go through the edit history. I don't know why almost every anonymous editor has to vandalise her page...just because she was a great female pharaoh. How many times is the article going to be vandalised until no one can make sense of its content? Thank You, --Leoboudv (talk) 01:20, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Done, I've protected it in the past but they just keep coming back. dougweller (talk) 05:29, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for acting here. It was painful seeing all the anon IP's placing words like mother f..., btch, etc in Hatshepsut's article. It was brutal. By the way, I created this article: Feel free to place a banner or category for it. Personally, I just create articles and try to source images for them. I got the 3 flickr images from my contacts within the past two days. Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 06:47, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
• Note: Captmondo posted a short response regarding the list here Basically, he says no problem. Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 20:52, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm unwatching all the Egyptian stuff from my watchlist to make it easier to read and making sure it's on the AE list. Good article by the way. dougweller (talk) 22:07, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• You're very welcome. Since the tomb of Senenmut's parents were found intact, they certainly merited an article here. Sadly, you likely won't find one on Brittanica. Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 20:57, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Unblock request of Lux Lord (talk · contribs)

Hi. Could you comment on that request? I'm asking because it's not immediately evident to me, judging from the contributions, that he's indeed a sock of Florentino floro (talk · contribs). Thanks,  Sandstein  08:42, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not dougweller but Lux Lord has many of the same speech patterns and obsessions exhibited by Florentino Floro. He also obsesses over similar topics. I'd be more specific, but Floro actually reads other talk pages and I'd rather he didn't know how we're able to tell it's him. I think, though, that a comparison between Lux Lord's messages and Floro's should suffice. Floro himself admits to having sockpuppets so this is a reasonable assumption. In any case, Lux Lord probably isn't who he claims he is; knowing quite a number of faculty at that school, I can say with reasonable certainty that Lux Lord's concerns are not something Ateneo would concern itself with. --Migs (talk) 08:55, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

User:Laa_Careon

And speaking of Floro's sockpuppets, I suspect this might be one but I'd like a second opinion. Laa Careon. He also follows similar editing patterns and concerns, but he hasn't seen fit to deliver a long incoherent rant yet. I've also posted a notice in the ANI topic. --Migs (talk) 08:55, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, he shows up about 5 hours after Floro's block. I don't understand why some people think a promise to be civil is enough in the face of all of this. dougweller (talk) 09:10, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Article protected for 6 weeks

I think you're entitled to an answer and/or a discussion on the application of "original research" at the RSN. Otherwise it looks rather as if we're seeing a POV attempt to block the discussion that the page is intended for. PR 18:10, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. As it happens, another Admin took the bit between his teeth and unblocked it. And now the article on the author is a redirect to his book, Shadows in the Desert: Ancient Persia at War‎ and that is up for AfD!. I'm particularly annoyed still that people think they can quote 'book reviews' that are just Amazon blurbs (and tell me that 'blurbs' isn't encyclopedic). There was a discussion here that was just completely ignored. Another editor has tried to fix that however. This is all basically a POV push for a particular writer, who himself seems to be aware of what is going on here and indirectly taking part. dougweller (talk) 15:55, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Atlantis Location

I tried to be helpful by including links to Philistines in the Crete location, and Coordinates to the Mount Sipylus under the Turkey location. While I don't particularly lend credence to either location, people examining the merits of those ideas would be better served by having links to inter-related data (eg. Keftiu = Caphtor = Origin of the Philistines, so the Philistines origin may determine the validity of the Minoan postulation) or simply coordinates for all the locations for some Google Earth amusement. I know you chimed in on the edit wars, I wonder if you have any insights regarding why these types of edits would be rescinded. It seems that Georgeos Diaz-Montexano has a strong inclination to promote the Andalusia Hypotheses... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.127.128.2 (talk) 23:17, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for this. I have to admit that an IP editor coming along and adding coordinates without a source is pretty much fodder for reversion. Why not start a new section on the talk page first? And what did you want done with those quotes you put on the talk page? dougweller (talk) 15:58, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I will post the coordinates request in the Talk area. With regard to the quotes, many of Mr Diaz-Montexano's rebuffs against the Minoan theory have to do with the fact that Plato never claimed that Atlantis had such and such attribute. I just tried to post sections of Critias that have correspondece with the History Channel's version of events. While Mr Diaz-Montexano is technically correct, I would say that Critias's comments (in the same document where Plato has commented) count as part of the historical Atlantean cannon.

Battle of Thermopylae

Hi there, You protected this article yesterday after a content dispute. For my part, I am sorry for becoming involved in it, although I didn't really realise I was, until I was, if you see what I mean.

Anyway, I see that I am not the first to come up against Ariobarza and fail to get through. I left a not-especially-polite response to his edits on the discussion page after you protected the article, to which he responded in typically rambling , and equally not-very-polite fashion. Feeling a little guilty, I proposed a compromise (still on the talk page). However, since then I have been now exploring Ariobarza's history a bit more, and I'm not sure that changes should be made to the article purely to please him/her.

I would therefore be happy for the article to remain protected for the time-being. However, given that the current version is a mess of edits which pleases no-one, could I suggest that the whole article be reverted to this version: 18:51, 25 November 2008. This would remove all of yesterday's edits. Not because I believe that that version is the best, just better than the current version. Obviously I understand if you just want to leave the article as it is.

Thanks, MinisterForBadTimes (talk) 11:47, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I can only do that if Ariobarza agrees, I'm afraid, however much I'd like to. dougweller (talk) 15:11, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Seth Material

You may be interested in commenting here. Verbal chat 12:12, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Could You Please Ban Me?

Could you please block me from editing? I have told myself I will stop editing time and time again because doing innocent and supposedly helpful things like adding infoboxes or persondata boxes tend to upset a lot of people here, but usually I end up adding some information anyway. Wiki-addiction maybe. Maybe if you banned me from editing it would be easier for everyone. i am not joking or being sarcastic by the way. Its annoying to get reprimanded over and voer for trying to help but kind of hard to resist editing. Thanks. 70.186.172.75 (talk) 22:40, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I've replied on your talk page, it would be better to ask to be adopted. Maybe you could find other outlets for your addiction. :) dougweller (talk) 06:26, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Historical Basis for King Arthur

Do you have a reliable source that says that Goodrich is not a reliable source? If so, isn't the proper response to put something into the article indicating that she's wrong, rather than to revert it? I'm not being sarcastic, I actually think that's how NPOV is supposed to work when you have conflicting sources, unless one of the sources is genuinely presenting a fringe argument. Goodrich might be "dreadful" (I'll take your word for it that you have reasons to believe so), but I'm not aware of a reason to think that she's completely goofy. I'm unreverting. Cheers. DCB4W (talk) 15:18, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I put a flag on the talk page for that article, if we could address it further there, in case there are other editors with opinions on the issue. I kind of liked Goodrich's book, so if there is a reason to disregard her I'd like to know that. I look forward to the discussion. DCB4W (talk) 15:32, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

moved section from my talk to WP:IPNA

Hi Dougwellwer. I just wanted to let you know that I had moved the Gender roles in First Nations and Native American tribes section from my talk page to the discussion page at WP:IPNA as it seemed a bit more appropriate there as I would be able to address some of the "Algonquian" section, but the article is more than just that. At IPNA, I have posed some additional comments for the rest of us to think about as well. CJLippert (talk) 15:44, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Floro's latest

Sorry to but you but here's his latest sockpuppet. It's patently obvious that this is him. Here. He's been using it to mass revert the edits to his contributions that were made by max and me. --Migs (talk) 13:31, 30 November 2008 (UTC)