Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Aaron Brenneman (talk | contribs) at 05:57, 9 January 2006 (→RfC: This is a pre-emptive strike). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Archived talk page messages: Archive Vol. I / Archive Vol. II

TINMC

Just to let you know, I think I edited the page seconds after you added the "editing in progress" tag! Dan100 (Talk) 20:41, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Kim Bruning

Hi there, Nicholas. I noticed that you're asking Kim to contact you on some wiki page about MedCab issues. He can't, he's blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. Perhaps you missed this edit, and what's on this page? (No, those aren't jokes, he is blocked.) Best wishes, Bishonen | talk 16:29, 17 December 2005 (UTC).

Thank you

I'd like to thank you, first and foremost; if you're receiving this message, it's because I think you were one of the people I adopted as a personal mentor, and who helped to make the whole Misplaced Pages experience more enjoyable.

The fact is, I've got no choice but to leave. The recent sordid affair with User:Deeceevoice and my appalling conduct in that showed me that I have not the calibre required to maintain good relations with users on the wiki. Worse still, I violated almost all of the principles I swore to uphold when I first arrived.

I've now been desysopped, and I plan on devoting a little more time to what I am good at, which is developing. I don't fit in on this side of the servers, but perhaps I can still be of use to the project.

Thank you. Rob Church 20:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Your deletion of my user page

I take strong exception to your decision. It would seem to me that users are free on their user pages to express their opinions about the project. Not only is your action precipitous and completely without warning, giving me no opportunity to salvage anything, it as a high-handed, gross abuse of your authority. It appears to be a unilateral decision taken by solely you that is, to my way of thinking, appallingly inappropriate. deeceevoice 00:50, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Nicholas, maybe you should try talking before you delete someone's user page. There's been far too much bad blood here already. No point in WP:POINT. Guettarda 01:02, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

The unfortunate thing is, given your action and given the crap she has been put through in the last week or two, your request probably has only a tiny fraction of the impact it would have had if you'd made it before you deleted her user page. I don't doubt you acted in good faith, but it's a sad mess that has absolutely no upsides, as far as I can see. Guettarda 01:19, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

As for the content of her user page - she says she is quitting. I assume that if she changes her mind and decides to stay, she can be convinced to clean up her page. If she leaves, someone will clean it up in due course. I just wish you had talked first. Guettarda 01:21, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I just came across your comments on Guettarda's talk page. Okay. I really do believe your action was simply a lapse in judgment. My apologies for assuming bad faith, but under the circumstances.... I hope you're feeling better soon. Love, light, joy and all that seasonal crap. No. Seriously, you're cool wit' me. Peace. deeceevoice 21:40, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Spoken Misplaced Pages

Hello, I;ve noticed that you've done a few spoken articles and are currently doing none, I don't know if you can help me, but I'm going to ask anyway. I put up the article Columbine High School massacre, for request for spoken wiki around September 22/23. Since then, no one has really taken it up, one user said he was going to do it, but then stopped contributing in late October and hasn't contributed since. He was about 14 years old, and I don't know how serious he was towards the project. Either way, I'm asking if you could possibly take on the project or see if there are any other participants that you know that could do it. Thanks. -- PRueda29 01:53, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Get some rest!

--Bishonen | talk 02:12, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

TINMC 2

Thanks for your reply, that makes complete sense and the finished version is a lot better. I saw a half-finished version - that "Stage A,B,C" stuff looked rather over-formal! Dan100 (Talk) 10:44, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

I would like to wish you adn your family a Merry Christmas and all the best for the New Year - Guettarda 16:00, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Alienus' dispute

I have completed the "comments by others" section of this dispute. I am happy to enter mediation and would appreciate help on focusing the discussion on the 5 or 6 actual changes that are in dispute. loxley 16:54, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

This dispute is a real problem. I cannot really be bothered to continue it but this just means that he who reverts most frequently wins. Do you think that an article such as cartesian materialism should be defined in terms used by its principle detractor? Surely it makes more sense to put the comments made by the detractor in a "criticisms" section. What are you going to do? loxley 20:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you should definitely stop reverting my work. Instead, contribute to it, changing what you feel is not supported by citations. As it stands (after reversing your vandalism), the article puts a number of definitions on pretty much equal footing. Some of these are by supporters, some by detractors, but nobody is treated as the ultimate authority on what the term means. NPOV, eh? Alienus 23:34, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Nicholas, could you help me a little?

i can't find your email address at the moment. this is User:Rbj.

i've been blocked by Phroziac for (IMO) no justifiable reason. he has not stated his reasons to me in any way. only after i sent wikimail to him via the block page, he sent a message to "just calm down" yet still does not explain or justify his block. i'm sure this has something to do with a really nasty editor named Rchamberlin (who is a prolific POV warrior and occasional vandal), but for the life of me, i cannot understand his (Phroziac's) justification for blocking me.

this is the first time since before creating my account that i am on wikipedia using an IP. can you help? r b-j 71.161.209.24 17:26, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

your intervention was helpful, Nicholas (thank you!), but it doesn't change the fact that Rchamberlain (talk · contribs) is editing prolifically with a clear POV axe to grind, and his edits are not careful or thoughtful. it's like he has a nice ATV and thinks the whole wikipedia woods are his to drive over and to leave turds that others have to clean up. i'm giving your soft-ban 24 hours, but i am confonting Rchamberlain with specific issues of arrogant POV edits and his arrogant bad faith, because that is simply what it is. and i have every right to.

also Phroziac was wrong in not contacting me in advance or even at the time of blocking me. that had to be clear. the least he or she could have done is contact me and ask me what is going on, i was not vandalizing Rchamberlain's page at all, and my initial contact was perfectly legit and his responses were completely illegit. i was about to bring this to admin attention when, out of the blue, i was blocked without explanation or prior or contemporaneous notice. and that was wrong. r b-j 20:07, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

By the way, I did not say you were vandalizing. You were just edit warring. And i'm a she. And, in the emails, i forgot to mention that because a blocked user can edit their user talk page, blocking him would do no good anyway. --Phroziac _. o º 20:18, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

you should have blocked him anyway (or not blocked me, to say the least, without prior contact). blocking me and not him is clear evidence of endorsing one side over another. it may have been a good faith mistake on your end Phroziac, but to deny that is, frankly, ludicrous. r b-j 21:19, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Nicholas, i will leave as the most obvious recent example of POV of Rchamberlain (talk · contribs) is his latest insistence that the Roman Catholic Church be simply called the "Catholic Church". (there are other much older edits where people have responded on his talk page that he is vandalizing, but since he is in denial, he blanks it.) about the Catholic Church thing, he has edit several, perhaps dozens, of pages that had "Roman Catholic Church" to just "Catholic Church", he has repeatedly moved the page History of the Roman Catholic Church to History of the Catholic Church with no discussion of such a radical change with other editors and no consideration to them when they reverted it back. he says somewhere that he is a Maronite which is, i believe, the source of his POV. on his more recent move of the History of the Roman Catholic Church page to History of the Catholic Church his stated reason is "the proper name of the CC is not the Roman Catholic Church, because the Roman Catholic Church encompases one Rite in the CC. We have eastern Rites such as the Byzantines and Maronites and Coptics too." which simply does not address why other Christians make the distiction between the Roman church (Catholic with a captial "C") and the universal "catholic church" (small case "c") which appears in both the Apostles' Creed and Nicene creed which are in use by christian groups outside of the Roman Catholic Church. in trying to undo his damage, i became aware of many pages that he has made 6 or 8 or more edits in the time of one or two minutes. he clearly does not use the Show preview button which is indicative of the fact that he is not being particularly thoughtful about the edits he makes. he thoughtlessly leaves his turds everywhere and just moves on (so that other people have clean them up lest his POV is left in WP) and that is a very selfish and arrogant thing to do. i think User:Husnock might have something to say about this. r b-j 21:19, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Nicholas, I walked away from it, but they are not. I'm sorry about this.

Arbitration has been requested in a matter you are involved in. (not as a defendant, but you should know that i mentioned your name.) Please see WP:RFAr. Sorry Nicholas.

BTW, I edited User:Rchamberlain's talk page, but I had every right to. I left an arbitration notice. r b-j 05:16, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!!

• I wish you and your family a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year. --Bhadani 16:28, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Cabal work

Good morning Nick, and a Merry Christmas to you. Hope you're enjoying the time with your other family. Meanwhile, in a fit of insomnia and partial madness, I've taken it upon myself to do a spot of mediation on behalf of the Cabal. Marked the case as more or less open and shut, for you to review when you return.

Happy holidays! Rob Church

Ahhh, so you're the IP who mediated on the anal sex drawing case! Nice work Dan100 (Talk) 15:30, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Ta. Rob Church 16:22, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm back

Alright, having reviewed everything, not to mention the stream of talk page messages begging me not to leave, plus certain words from Geogre, Bishonen, Ambi and Mindspillage, I've decided to give it another shot - apparently I am the sort of person people want around.

I'm having to stand for confirmation, though. Damn, I miss my buttons already. Rob Church 16:25, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Barnstar

Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Catholic Alliance of wikipedia

Hi, we've never worked together but I wanted to say thanks. I think closing this one early was very prudent. I bet it was a tough decision for you to take. I expect you might get some that think it wasn't the way to go... oh well. ++Lar 01:55, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Thief!

Dear Mindspillage: I've stolen your user page theme, which, amusingly, you originally stole from Talrias to begin with - I do hope you don't mind :) All the best, --NicholasTurnbull | (talk) 16:49, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Hah! It would be awfully hypocritical of me to mind, now, wouldn't it? And now we're categorymates, too. (You can keep your color scheme, though; I look awful in yellow...) Mindspillage (spill yours?) 18:05, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Diplomacy in the Machine

Hi Nicholas. I was reading up on things to do when one doesn't have a "meltdown" situation but rather a more minor difficulty, and found your committee. I've had a discussion with a user (link) who I think is "out of line" in terms of his process for discussions. I do not wish to challenge his dedication to contributing to the effort, but I think he's just behaving in a way that does not promote good will. I've tried my best to see if I can have some impact on his style, so we might come to a compromise on what is civil discourse. He and I do not really have any huge disagreement over article content (outside of a fundamental difference of opinion in whether Ignore All Rules is a good idea). I just don't like how I'm being treated, and I don't want to feel so depressed about the outcome of my conversation with him that I quit Misplaced Pages. So I'm interested in some cool heads getting involved in telling us what we're doing wrong here, and how people with our points-of-view might have a better conversation. Thank you! (P.S. I prefer having a note given on my userpage of an update, with a link, rather than have discussions duplicated! Thanks!) Metaeducation 09:28, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Happy New Year

For last year's words belong to last year's language

And next year's words await another voice.

And to make an end is to make a beginning.

T.S. Eliot, "Little Gidding"

Happy New Year! ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 20:24, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Why did you block User:Tommstein?

I went through his contributions since you warned him and he made no personal attacks. On what basis did you block him? --K. AKA Konrad West TALK 03:17, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply, Nicholas. Based on your evidence, there was not sufficient reason to block according to WP:BP. The so-called POV edit was in fact largely accurate; it should say "most publications", not "all". (BTW, how did you establish that is was unsourced and POV?). And one mildly sarcastic response is not sufficient to warrant blocking for disruption. You warned Tommstein, and he stopped making personal attacks. The block was unnecessary and without grounds. --K. AKA Konrad West TALK 02:10, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Would you care to explain in detail how you have personally determined that insertions into an article that are massively documented to be accurate on said article's Talk page are in fact not only POV, but block-worthy POV? Would you also similarly care to explain how mild sarcasm has now become a blockable offense? Given that WP:BP also says that blocks for "Disruption" should be noted by administrators on WP:ANI, and I don't see anything else that you could have possibly used as an ostensible justification, would you also please explain why you flagrantly broke Misplaced Pages policy on a very serious issue, user blocking, by not noting the block on WP:ANI?Tommstein 19:35, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I would like to put my objections to banning Tommstein forward. Banning one person and refusing to treat others on the opposite side with equal severity when they have been guilty of posts that are far more controversial is demonstrating major bias to say the least. The second point is that Tom had done nothing remotely offensive after he had been warned, and yet he was still picked on and banned, it appears solely due to 'daring to disagree' with NicholasTurnbull. If putting ones own side of the story and defence forward means immediate banning, then the Misplaced Pages project is one of the worst places for Freedom of Speech and debate, and is turning into a dictatorship if this kind of abuse is allowed to continue and possibly grow. The phrase comes to mind—'power corrupts'. Was this incident a 'one off', or is it a sign of underlying lack of good administration on Misplaced Pages? Central 21:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

It appears that such notification on WP:ANI is not always required, per Misplaced Pages:Controversial_blocks. Additionally, the block is logged automatically here. - CobaltBlueTony 15:25, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I have to assume that either you just made that up out of thin air, you didn't read Misplaced Pages:Controversial_blocks very carefully, or someone edited out whatever you were using as justification before I got there.Tommstein 07:58, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Let's review, shall we?

Once you are convinced that a block is warranted, the recommended procedure for controversial blocks is:

1. Check the facts with care.
2. Reread appropriate parts of Misplaced Pages:Blocking policy.
3. If possible, contact other administrators informally to be sure there are others who agree with your reasoning. The administrators' noticeboard, IRC and email are effective tools for this.

1. Place the block, exercising due care in the wording of the "reason" message, and include a link to the user page of the user being blocked. Hm, no requirement to use the noticeboard here.

1. Place a notice of the block on the talk page of the affected user, with additional rationale, outlining the facts and the part of the blocking policy you feel applies.
2. Be willing to discuss the block with other Wikipedians. Such discussion usually takes place either on the blocked user's talk page, or the administrators' noticeboard (the latter especially in those cases where it was already raised there).

I did not see any sentence which could be interpreted that the admin must use the noticeboard. Since the block procedure requires admin priveleges and additional data to be filled out, and the servers do the rest, I cannot tell where NicholasTurnbull violated any policy or guideline in his action. If you can quote and link the precise phrase which supports your assertation, please provide it. Otherwise, rereading the policy may be a ball back in your court, as it were. - CobaltBlueTony 03:33, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Read step 2 more carefully. And possibly steps 1, 3, 4, and 5 (if you had numbered the list right).Tommstein 07:53, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I strongly urge the inclusion of more administrator's comments on this project stopping issue. There is too much animosity for one Admin to handle alone. Duffer 06:42, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

WP:TINMC

Bonaparte is playing musical chairs. Rob Church 18:10, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry it was based on this http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages%3AMediation_Cabal&diff=33603157&oldid=33603063 Bonaparte talk 18:30, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I have practically the willing and time to deal with mediation. And I enjoy very much, this nomination may come as an award. That's all. Bonaparte talk 18:34, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Loxley

Well, I went ahead and moved back some of the material that Loxley deleted some time ago, merging it in with the current article. In response, he reverted my changes outright. He doesn't want to deal with this maturely, we wants an edit war. At this point, I'm ready to take this to mediation. Can you point me in the right direction? Alienus 21:19, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Your code is now a box

This user opposes the ridiculous glut of userboxes, and thinks they must die.

• now you face a dilema - you don't like userboxes so you want to nominate this nonsense for deletion - however, this box opposes userboxes so you want other users to adopt this box on their own user pages - i will let you think about it :) God of War 09:01, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Kelly Martin RfC

>I think that such things which do not fall under the purview of encyclopaedia editing really don't have to go through the cumbersome deletion processes, simply because otherwise we'll end up doing nothing else than squabbling rather than writing the encyclopaedia.

So you are suggesting that Kelly Martin's actions have reduced squabbling??? Kaldari 14:29, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Nicholas, could you take a look at

Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Rbj and possibly add a comment, if you feel so inclined? r b-j 16:03, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

WISHING YOU

A Happy New Year!!!!!!!!! Jason Palpatine 22:55, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Userboxes, ohnoes!

Ciao. Rob Church 13:23, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you Nicholas for your Barnstar. It means a lot to me. I feel good. I will continue my work. Thank you. Peace. Bonaparte talk 08:33, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Mediation Cabal

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/06_12_2005_Alienus_and_Loxley_edit_war_over_Dennett_and_Philosophy_of_the_Mind

In your summary of the Cabal you mentioned how philosophy is about the interplay of ideas, not whether a particular idea is right or wrong. So how do we stop someone with a particular idea from twisting all the articles in a field? In the Cartesian materialism article we are dealing with a user, Alienus, who has a 'thing' about Daniel Dennett. I have corrected many of his incursions into other "philosophy of mind" articles. Alienus is an expert at "edit wars", he started this edit war with an accusation that "Loxley" was about to begin an edit war, he reverts having made small, erroneous changes then accuses me of making reverts rather than revisions. You have got to admire his skill at operating the Misplaced Pages environment.

But there is an issue here. Alienus has a hero. He is trying to insert the ideas of this hero as the principle and true ideas across a series Misplaced Pages articles. Should we just give way because he is persistent? loxley 10:55, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

And you have a villain whose existence you wish to downplay. The truth of the matter is that, every time you've made contributions, I've bent over backwards to integrate them. In response, you do blanket reversions of my changes. The problem here is you. The solution is for you to go away. Running around and harassing people like Turnbull is a fine example of why you belong in another venue. Alienus 11:00, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, you are bound to see it like that. Dennett's ideas are well represented in my version of the article. Please stop insulting me. I have taken this to arbitration. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Cartesian_materialism

Bogdanoff affair "mentions"

I am sorry, but Ze Miguel comment in connection with the PHD mentions is not only approximate: it is false. The lax of April 27, 2002 does not apply to the theses of Bogdanoff. The regulations which apply to the delivery of a doctorate depend on the date on which the inscription in thesis was taken. In the case of the Bogdanoff brothers, it was in 1991. Therefore, the regulation that applies in their case is the law of 23 novembre 1988. Here is the law text (http://www.andes.asso.fr/GUIDE/annexe/node11.php)  :

"Toutefois, les dispositions de ces arrêtés restent applicables aux candidats inscrits en vue de l'obtention de l'un de ces diplômes et ayant choisi, conformément aux dispositions transitoires prévues par l'arrêté du 5 juillet 1984 relatif aux études doctorales. de poursuivre la préparation de leurs travaux et de les soutenir dans les conditions prévues par les textes antérieurement en vigueur."

In English:

"However, the provisions of these decrees remain applicable to the candidates registered for obtaining one of these diplomas and having chosen, in accordance with the transitional provisions envisaged by the decree of 5 July 1984 relating to the doctoral studies to continue the preparation of their work and to support them under the conditions envisaged by the texts before in force."

It is clear. Grichka passed his thesis in 1999. Igor in 2002. They started their thesis in 1991, long before the "new doctorate" mentionned by Ze Miguel (27 april 2002). Therefore, as the law stipulates, the only legal text that applies to the Bogdanoff thesis is the text of July 5,1984 (http://guilde.jeunes-chercheurs.org/Textes/Doct/A840705-2.html) :

"L'admission ou l'ajournement est prononcé après délibération du jury. L'admission peut donner lieu à l'attribution de l'une des mentions suivantes : passable, honorable ou très honorable."

In English:

"the admission or the adjournment is pronounced after deliberation of the jury. The admission can induce the attribution of one of the following mentions: passable, honourable or very honourable."

I know well the circumstances in which Bogdanoff passed their theses at the University of Bourgogne. Taking into account their celebrity (and to avoid discussions), it was decided to allow a "discrete" passing grade to them (Honourable) and not at all "the lowest passing grade" (passable). Insofar as it was the text of 1984 which applied to the theses of Bogdanoff, the jury knew perfectly that the "Honourable" ranking was not the lowest one (which was indeed "passable"). Consequently what is written in the article of Misplaced Pages is absolutely false and should be corrected.

AMA Considering Mediating

Nicholas -- there's a proposal on the AMA talk page about taking on informal and formal mediation. I've steered folks to TINMC several times but it doesn't seem to take. Maybe if you could take a look at the proposal and give a comment about what TINMC is all about that would be helpful. Up to you though, just thought you might like to. --Wgfinley 01:39, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

re:Please don't exploit MediaWiki bugs

I read that thing and I feal that in this case it is not being used for fraud and can't be because of how it works, however maybe not everyone should be able to get to the instructions on doing it. If however it had been proven that this was causing a problem with the database or the software I would remove it immidently. --Adam1213 Talk + 08:00, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

JWs

Thanks for the heads up, Steve suggested opening up a different case to them apparently. I'll see if I can resolve their problem like this, otherwise from the amount of mediation they seem to be needing a more formal process might suit them better. - FrancisTyers 20:03, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Mediation Request

Thanks Nicholas. We (Natalinasmpf and myself) seem to be able to resolve our disputes now, so I don't feel a need for outside help. Thank-you for taking the time to be of service to the community. I will add a note to the Mediation Cabal page. --BostonMA 23:34, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

RfC

This is a pre-emptive strike: I'd offered to help Tommstein put his statement in order when it had barely poked its head into user space. While I'd imagine that you neither knew that nor actually cared (and why should you?) I just wanted to make it clear that it was only because I hate to see anyone going off half-cocked. - brenneman 05:57, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

• Users who think userboxes must die
• Misplaced Pages Cabal