Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by RicoCorinth (talk | contribs) at 20:02, 26 April 2010 (→Disruptive incivility, to the point of "hostility", again: +). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Quotes applicable to my opinion that- Misplaced Pages's belief that "verifiable" trumps the truth is stupid

Some Wikipedian's beliefs that being verifiable is somehow more important than being the truth is dangerous. I am not the only one who believes this about "facts". Facts that are sourced and presented in wikipedia but that are not true are dangerous because they present themselves (since they are referenced) as the truth. This perpetuates things that are wrong, not only because of the proliferation of that information through "mirror-sites", but through other websites that use wikipedia for THEIR sources, and just through the people who look here and then go tell their friends. Most importantly it makes wikipedia unreliable to professors, teachers, the media, professionals/experts, and the general public. Misplaced Pages has a bad reputation not for having unsourced material, its reputation stems from just plain WRONG material. I am a strong supporter of Misplaced Pages:Use common sense and support the current push to strengthen it and make it an official guideline.

Feel free to add quotes you think that apply to this position or ones you make up yourself or just a comment supporting the position if you agree!

• In science, any compromise between a correct statement and a wrong statement is a wrong statement. user:Stephan Schulz; pulled from User talk:JzG
• I was provided with additional input that was radically different from the truth. I assisted in furthering that version. Colonel Oliver North
• A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right. Thomas Paine
• Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong. Thomas Jefferson
• An age is called Dark, not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it. James Michener
• The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge. Daniel Boorstin
• Three minutes thought would suffice to find this out; but thought is irksome and three minutes is a long time. A.E. Housman
• The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about
• The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge. Elbert Hubbard
• The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding. Albert Camus
• Truthiness is 'What I say is right, and anyone else says could possibly be true.' It's not only that I feel it to be true, but that I feel it to be true. There's not only an emotional quality, but there's a selfish quality. Stephen Colbert
• Per a blog, "William Faulkner wryly commented, 'Facts and truth really don’t have much to do with each other.'" a blogger, about William Faulkner

• Only facts can be mistaken, never so the Fuehrer! - Ironic diary note by Heinrich Mann after listening to a boastful radio speech by Adolf Hitler in the autumn of 1939. Mann, of course, is thinking of actual true facts, not fabrications! From "Zur Zeit von Winston Churchill", Mann's diary notes from the first months of the war (highly recommended if you know German and are interested in how that time appeared to an acute onbserver caught in the middle - Mann's elegant put-downs of Hitler, his discussions of the power games and his gradual shift of main loyalty from the Soviet Union to Britain are fascinating)

• He seemed as easy to read as an open book, but an open book really only shows two pages out of hundreds, doesn't it? - Sven Wernström, Swedish author.
• Thinking is dangerous here, especially for non-thinkers! - Lars Gustafsson saw a big signboard warning swimmers of perilous water currents in a lake on the fringe of then East Berlin, and just changed out the verb.

Barnstar

		The Half Barnstar
		I award you, Camelbinky, the left half of this barnstar for your excellent combined efforts with doncram for work on Capital District-related articles as of late. Note that had you stayed in retirement, you never would have been able to receive this. :-) upstateNYer 06:54, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Rapp Road Community Historic District

On May 2, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Rapp Road Community Historic District, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Dravecky (talk) 06:51, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

The DYK phrase, up now, is Did you know

• ... that during the First Great Migration, the majority of Shubuta, Mississippi, moved to Albany, New York, with some recreating a religious rural community in Rapp Road Community Historic District?

Hey, congratulations! doncram (talk) 10:10, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Wow

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		I, Wadester16, award Camelbinky the Tireless Contributor Barnstar for his efforts at List of incorporated places in New York's Capital District, which is thorough, including images, and must have taken an insane amount of time to create and get right. wadester16 | Talk→ 05:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Shalom brother!

Thank you for that, that gives me some good ideas. I do know the founder of Reform Judaism (in full disclosure I am a Reform Jew) was originally a rabbi in Albany and when he first started his philosophy a riot actually broke out at the synagogue and in the street and the police were called out. The synagogue for Congregation Berith Sholom (the congregation I grew up in) in Troy is the oldest synagogue in continous use as a synagogue in the entire state. I guess those are two things I can add, the info with references are already on other articles, I just need to do a copy/paste job over to here. Oh, btw (and you can respond on my talk page since this is getting off the topic of the article) where is the synagogue for the Karaites in Albany? and I know many Jews (particularly Orthodox) dont acknowledge Karaites as full-members of the Jewish community has there been any contact or sharing of facilities or events between the Karaites and the large community of Jews in Albany? The Orthodox dont recognize Reform as "real Jews" either so we have that in common.Camelbinky (talk) 06:01, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Really interesting re: the history of the Reform movement in Albany. It would be great if you added that to the article. The Karaite synagogue is in downtown Albany. Actually, its website is the reference I added, and there's other information about it elsewhere on the Web. The Karaite community is very small and in my impression it is really held together by one person, Avraham Qanai. He seems to have been brought up Karaite, but a good number of the other Karaites were originally Rabbanite. I was actually raised Conservative Jewish, but I think many aspects of Rabbinic Judaism are actually over-interpretations. As one of many examples, I'm not convinced that "do not cook a kid in its mother's milk" means more than that (most other Rabbanites expand it to mean that all dairy and all meat should be separated, despite the prohibition against adding to the Torah). IMO, in Albany and elsewhere, there's just not enough Rabbanite contact with Karaites. I would like to see the Conservative, Reform and other liberal movements interpreting the text with more internal consistency, as Karaites attempt to do, and actually challenging Orthodox Judaism on theological grounds. It is unfortunate that some Orthodox Jews are so closed minded that they do not accept these other movements as Jewish, hence the riots. At least Reform Jews, Conservative Jews and Karaite Jews are allowed into Israel, we can be grateful for that.

By the way, if you would be interested in visiting the Karaite synagogue I suggest you contact the Hakham (somewhat equivalent of Rabbi) first. In imitation of the Holy Temple, the place is kept tahor (ritually pure) and there are a number of things you would need to do or not do before you enter. This is based on various passages in the Torah, and I'm actually trying to summarize these requirements as a short checklist. Supposedly it's typical of Karaite synagogues, but it's not something Rabbanites and especially Reform would be used to. As I said, this is also a relatively traditional Hakham who doesn't really seem to think about Karaite Judaism in relation to the Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionist movements but is an open and welcoming person. --AFriedman (talk) 14:10, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

NYSR

Hi. Please keep in mind that if an article is tagged under NYSR, the WPNY tag is redundant, and thus unnecessary. Thanks, –Juliancolton |  20:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Realization

Just wanted to point out a recent realization: then → now = wow! wadester16 | Talk→ 20:42, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

County breakup graphic

I just made this, which should be overwritten by a higher quality SVG soon. Would you provide a source for this? If you want GA or FA for Capital District, this image will have to be sourced. Feel free to list it on the image page at Commons. Also, the dates of each county's creation (or split) would be nice to include in the graphic. Do you know this information? We can have it added when you find out. Also, please take a look at the caption I gave the graphic in the article; it lacks in many ways and could use some rewriting by you. Thanks sir. wadester16 05:41, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks (ref: Glens Falls talk)

Camelbinky, thank you for suggesting that I bring a discussion to the village pump. I'm not very familiar with what the pump is all about, but I'll be checking it out soon. --JBC3 (talk) 06:06, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

The village pump is basically just where you ask a general question that just hasnt been addressed and has no policy or guideline to cover it and see what different editors have to say, there might not necessarily be a definitive answer but at least a good idea of where the community stands can be seen. I recommend bringing it to Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy)‎, the question does seem to be about policy even though your specific question is about one person in one article I would think the broad version of this question applies to just about every municipality/settlement article in English-language Misplaced Pages and I would bet there would be lots of comments and possible solutions and an answer may even end up being incorporated as a guideline or into a policy. Posting a mention of the discussion at the wikiproject cities might get some interested editors to come to the village pump to state their opinion. I've seen lots of good questions come up and to my surprise find out someone knows of a time when the question was already brought up and answered.Camelbinky (talk) 07:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I made an attempt at the village pump to bring this up. Check it out at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy)#Lists of people within articles and please contribute if you think I missed something or have a different perspective. --JBC3 (talk) 00:08, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Awesome post at the village pump today. Thanks for keeping the discussion going! --JBC3 (talk) 00:27, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Capital District compilation image

You input would be appreciated. wadester16 04:02, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Also, it's done. What do you think? wadester16 00:49, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Perfect! Thank you!Camelbinky (talk) 01:07, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Housman quote = "Brilliant!!!!"

Hi Camelbinky,

No reason for this post except to say I stumbled across one of your posts and found this;

"Three minutes thought would suffice to find this out; but thought is irksome and three minutes is a long time."
-- A.E. Housman

And all I wanted to say was;

BRILLIANT!!!

I'm pinching it! :)

Regards, --Muzhogg (talk) 06:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Ah, yes. I see that list of quotations - top stuff. If I ever find a suitable one, I'll be sure to come back and add it in! Best, -- Muzhogg (talk) 08:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

NRHP article names

I think at WP:NRHP we have decided that if the property's common name is something other than what it's listed as, the article title should be the common title. But the list article should use the NPS name for consistency with the official document, with a pipe link or redirect to the actual article. And we use the listing title in the infobox hed.

Recent example I just did, from our region: The Village Diner, in Red Hook. That's the common name (see the website, or drive down Route 9 to it and see the sign out front). But it was listed as Halfway Diner, its original name and the one it used for about 40 years. So, the article has the current name, but the listing name in the infobox, and notes this in the lede.

My one exception to this is church articles. The NPS is forever, for accuracy's sake, listing churches with titles "St. Joe's Church Complex" or "Our Lady of the Blessed Sanctuary Church and Rectory". That's good for a list of recognized properties, where you include outbuildings in the listing, but you'd be surprised at the number of NRHP editors who have actually used these as article titles. I say, you only use that as the article title if that's what it says on the sign out front (i.e., never).

Now, to Washington Park: I think you can call that article, if you want to create it, Washington Park (Troy, New York). Make Washington Park Historic District (Troy, New York) a redirect to that article (i.e., by renaming it), and I think you're OK (consider that Chautauqua Institute is pretty much identical to the Chautauqua Institute National Historic Landmark District, so we don't have separate articles on them.

You might want to talk with Doncram about the NRHP naming conventions (such as they are). He's been the one most responsible for them. Daniel Case (talk) 21:41, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Urban studies and planning project invite

Per your fine work on the Albany historic district articles, perhaps you'd be interested in listing yourself as a member at WP:USPL? You do seem to have some interests that would fit there. Daniel Case (talk) 01:29, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

No, it's not OR

Not with the images involved. See WP:OI. Daniel Case (talk) 02:19, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that would be my interpretation. Daniel Case (talk) 04:00, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Rensselaerswyck expanded

Have a look. wadester16 17:30, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Historic districts and settlements

I'll reply to your questions here to so that we're not clogging up doncram's talk page. Even when historic districts cover the same area as a settlement or have the same boundaries as another area, I think each still merits its own article. While there is geographical overlap, there is much less time overlap. A settlement article should cover not just the history of the place but information on the economy, transport, education, geography, etc. Information about a historic district should be included in a summary style, but historic districts should have their own article to prevent the settlement article becoming too weighted towards the historic district. Articles on historic sites should have information about the history of the site, its relation to the surrounding area, possible interpretations of such sites to give context, and preservation amongst other things. While this could be summarised, for the settlement article stuff like providing context wouldn't be easy to add to the settlement article and it could be interpreted as digressing.

If there was no information that could not be included about an historic district in a settlement article then yes I would agree that it's fair to merge them. However, such information as I have listed above should always be available for each historic site. Unfortunately, most articles will remain stubs because there are so many of them, but at least having them flags to the reader that it needs expansion. The district should of course be mentioned in the history section of the settlement, but there should be scope for creation and expansion of an article on the district. I'm not sure of any articles that specifically fit these criteria, but I'm drawing on my experience of writing articles about settlements and listed buildings in England. There is usually a fair bit of information about such historic sites if you know where too look and if you add it too the settlement article it ends up clogging it up.

It of course needs to be judged on a case by case basis though. While I've made it clear that I believe every historic district merits its own article, others may of course disagree but I've explained my reasons. My problem on doncram's page was Orlady's confrontational comments. I believe doncram was justified in creating the article and that the provocative actions came from Orlady. Nev1 (talk) 18:21, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

I like your answers and they have swayed me to agree, for the most part, with your opinion. I do have this one issue though- you seem to be wanting the history section of a settlement article to be no more than a summary of the history of the settlement. I am biased in my opinion in that I focus on history sections of settlements, but my opinion is that history sections on settlements should be as detailed as possible, and if they get too long then that is why they get split off as their own article and THEN a summarized version is put in the settlement article with a hatnote on the section directing people to the history article of the settlement. I dont think this means there is any conflict with the idea of having separate historical district articles since for settlements that have such a large history they are most likely going to be of such size that there are multiple districts in the settlement and therefore the historic district articles will not be geographically the same as the full settlement and therefore can go into details that might not be relevant or notable enough for the full settlement article history.Camelbinky (talk) 20:05, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

48 Hudson Ave

I'll assume that you mean the Hudson Ave in downtown. Ironically, there is another Hudson Ave off Central far from downtown. But 48 isn't registered by Google Maps. Is the address correct? wadester16 00:04, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the one in downtown near the bus station (the one downtown, the one in Pine Hills, and the one in Hudson/Park & Center Sq. are all technically the same street, just disconnected due to topography, but the house numbering continues as if it was just one long street and the unbuilt area really did have lots). 48 Hudson Ave shows up in Mapquest I dont know why Google would not. I've never really used Google maps.Camelbinky (talk) 00:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

I just clicked on the link you have in your post for Google maps and it showed up the correct 48 Hudson AveCamelbinky (talk) 00:25, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Arthur Cravan

Nice reply - thanks! Finding the actual source for that Cravan had been lost at sea and most likely drowned took just five minutes at the university library here, but the business of keeping it in long term seemed to tie in with many other considerations (I only thought it over after I'd edited the article...) I guess I'm not the only one who has felt harassed sometimes by overfussy editors, or people with an agenda, who just don't know much about the stuff they edit, but sure know how to use WP rules ("no original research!" "this is not relevant")~sighs~.Strausszek (talk) 23:53, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Do you know anything about this?

I'm doing a rewrite of Kiliaen van Rensselaer (merchant) (sandbox at User:Wadester16/Kiliaen) and I'm having a hard time figuring out his birth and death years. See the sandbox, where I include notes (ref 1 and 3) regarding the disagreement on these years. Do you know anything about these or have better sources? wadester16 18:55, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Not off the top of my head, but I will definitely spend time looking into it until I have an answer (or come to the conclusion there is no right answer!). Someone you may want to contact, if he is still editing, is user:djflem, he's an expert on New Netherland history articles and may have an answer for you quicker than we can find online.Camelbinky (talk) 01:08, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Other than the sources you have already found, I have found this which at least allows you to cite one source that outright says there is some uncertainty about Kil's death along with a no latter than and "as early as" date, it though seems quite certain of the year of his birth. I have, if Google Books is correct about the publication date, found a book written by Kil in 1643 (which could still have been his date of death though), no preview is available for the book and the title is in Latin. I will continue to search, though looking at the sources you give I would personally have more trust in Reynolds and Van Rensselaer as to a date of death. I havent looked into birth yet, working on death first as I assumed death would be an event more likely to be recorded and kept in the in safekeeping in the US than his date of birth in Amsterdam for which the records might not be around anymore as he wasnt notable at the time of his birth but he def. was notable when he died. I'm tracking down any primary sources from that are contemporary with his death right now.Camelbinky (talk) 01:46, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I'll chat with that user. I don't know how I feel about the source since they say the patroonship bounced straight to Jeremias, which isn't the case. See Template:RensselaerswyckPatroons. wadester16 04:27, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Quackenbush House

You're going to want to look over this. wadester16 22:50, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I like the photos, but I believe it was Daniel Case who once said there may be copyright problems with photos of historic markers and signs, so you may want to ask him about that, I probably misunderstood. However that sign does seem to be from the 1970s, so I wouldnt trust it as to which building is currently the oldest. Though I will be holding off on any info on 48 Hudson until any renovation of it turns up a definitive declaration, which I have found more evidence that the Convention Center Authority does indeed plan on renovating it and turning into some sort of museum. Use whichever photo of the building you like the most for the article. And since you were just there, can you verify that the restaurant name has changed from Nicole's Bistro to the name currently mentioned in the article? I thought it kind of a strange name if true, it translates as "The Chained Duck" and I'm pretty sure that is also the name of a satirical newspaper.Camelbinky (talk) 00:36, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Albany streets list article

Yeah, I certainly think it could be something we could do. Albany's about as large as Hamilton, plus it's a state capital city to boot. It would be notable enough. Daniel Case (talk) 12:15, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Assessment request

Would you mind assessing Charter of Freedoms and Exemptions? wadester16 21:12, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I can do that right now.Camelbinky (talk) 21:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Pump reply on Jeopardy! stuff

Thanks for the reply. I actually didn't realize those Champions lists were already on the pages, I probably will split those off. The real question, though, is whether the other two lists of total and single-day winnings are notable enough. I'd say yes (given proper limitations, like the 50k for total and 30k for single day that the official page provides), but I want outside opinions before creating. Staxringold _talk 00:23, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Central Troy Historic District GA

Well, Wade got there first. But you're just as welcome.

OK, so in order to take it to FA I am hoping you can get me some of those early '70s sources (don't have to be online) that you talked about in PR. Or perhaps I should get my own butt up to Troy again eventually. Daniel Case (talk) 21:16, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Map of Rensselaerswyck

Care to have a read of Map of Rensselaerswyck for me? Do you by any chance know what Smackx Island is? Oh and if you're interested. wadester16 23:37, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

• I would love to read your article, I loved the one you did on the charter of freedoms etc. Smackx Island...not of the top of my head, is there a place I could see a good image of the map itself? Chances are I could identify it from the map itself easier than from a name. The Hudson is full of islands that have since been filled in on one side and no longer exist on traditional maps such as road atlases, mapquest, etc; but NYSDOT and USGS maps often still refer to their locations (I've done articles on two such islands, Westerlo Island and Van Rensselaer Island). I have gone ahead and voted support for Zoofari, I have enjoyed his work and benefitted from it, so this was the least I could do to repay all his hard work. I'm glad you brought it to my attention, pass on my well-wishes.Camelbinky (talk) 23:58, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
  • The image in the infobox is high-res and Smackx Island is clearly labeled. wadester16 00:01, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I've read your article and have three questions and one request-

• should it be States General or States-General?
• rixdollars? is there a way to wikify that or footnote it with an explanation of just how much a rixdollar is?
• Albert Dieter(whatever) was the "commis" of Fort Orange...possible to wikify term or explain for laymen?
• and the request I have is- can you wikilink the first mention of de Laets Island to Van Rensselaer Island (more of an ego-trip for me since I'm the one that created the article).

I will go back and look at the high-res map and check out Smackx Island though from the description of it being north of Beerens and at the endpoint of the first purchase I already have my suspicions, should have an answer within an hour.Camelbinky (talk) 00:13, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

 Done wadester16 00:21, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

WOW! This is a tough one. Ok... my best possible answer, for now, is that it is either Bear Island or Campbells Island. I have correctly identified the three islands between Beeren and Smacx as Shad, Schermerhorn, and Poplar; and have identified Renselaersburg as Castle Island, and the large island directly east Godyns Island is Papsacanee Island, which today they are fully joined together and are a peninsula not an island (and also they are a state park). This narrowed the section of river down to search. Bear Island does (or did) have a stream entering the Hudson at its north end and is along the western bank as the Map of Rensselaerswyck shows, though Campbell Island does (or did) match the size and shape better but is in real life much closer to the eastern bank. Should you be able to identify the kill entering the Hudson at the south end of Smackx Island as the Vloman Kill (previously spelled other ways, perhaps Vlouman back then), then I would say Campbell would be a better bet. Since that section of the map does not show the coastline and islands that real do/did exist back then on the eastern section as well as it does for the eastern section I would say we shouldnt take for granted that the island is truly as west as the map shows. For now Campbell Island is the best I can give. here is the best link for checking some of the info out I have provided.Camelbinky (talk) 00:53, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not really worried about identifying these things more than already, unless you're already sure. I don't want to make assumptions about the map considering it was hand drawn and could be vastly wrong. I'd kind of like to bring this to GAN, but worry that the "based solely on one source" part will kill me. Plus it's basically copy+pasted from the source, which is legal (PD), but not really impressive. wadester16 01:12, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

←Do you have a source that specifically says that de Laet's Island was later renamed Van Rensselaer's Island, so I can source note d? wadester16 01:22, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

You may also want to take a cool at this and comment on how things are going. Take into account this as well when referencing van Rensselaers; I've been creating some articles too. wadester16 01:25, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Reference number 5 in the Van Rensselaer Island article is the source for Van Rensselaer Island originally being de Laet's Island, also another reference used in that article states it more clearly but is possibly not as reliable a source as it is the website promoting the commercial/residential development named "de Laet's Landing" on the island. Also I believe some of the other sources used in that article mention it as well, if not all of them.Camelbinky (talk) 01:51, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I looked at number 5, but it only says that Kiliaen named it for de Laet. It doesn't say that the name changed from de Laet to van Rensselaer. wadester16 01:56, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Page 6 of reference number 1 lists all the former names of the island, including de Laet's and Van Rensselaer (along with a few others).Camelbinky (talk) 02:08, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Give this a read-through, will you?

Kiliaen van Rensselaer (Dutch merchant) has gone live. Go through it when you get some time? Took an initial look at the history of town creation. I like the idea, but the setup is quite awkward. I don't mean to sound mean, but the way it's done just doesn't present well; the content, on the other hand, is great. Maybe you could use Template:Familytree. It can be difficult to use, but it looks great. upstateNYer_{formerly wadester16} 22:37, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I didnt take it as sounding mean, we are here for the same reason to make the articles better, I always appreciate your input, you've made just about every article I've ever worked on better with your input, I can always trust you to be honest. I know the format is awkward, the problem is that when put in a family tree format of any kind there is a problem with the fact that town creation is hard to draw because it is so "inbred", for the lack of a better word; towns creating new towns with their own "parents" or "grandparents". I had checked out template:Familytree when deciding on what format to use, the only question/possible problem with using that would be in those cases that three towns contributed to a new town, I am not sure if that template would be able to diagram that as the template was designed for a mom-pop-children type of diagram and probably the creators did not envision three parents. I will practice with it and see what I can do maybe there is a way to represent three parents. I'm glad you like the content, the current format does disappoint me and actually saddens me so I know what you mean when you say it doesnt present well. I've been watching your article for some time now and will take a detailed look now, as I could use a nice distraction from what I was working on, the (Dongan Charter, was thinking I could write out the entire charter in the article then I realized that what I had down so far was one page out of over 20! So I'll have to figure something else out!) :-(Camelbinky (talk) 22:49, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Don't put the full text on Misplaced Pages, put it on Wikisource. And when/if you create the article in Wikisource, make sure to name it so it can't be confused with the Dongan Charter of NYC. upstateNYer_{formerly wadester16} 22:54, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I dont think I've ever used Wikisource, I'll have to give that a try, thank you!Camelbinky (talk) 22:56, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I hadn't either until I started working on Kiliaen. You'll note all the Wikisource references I used; I created them all. upstateNYer_{formerly wadester16} 23:00, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

One quick problem I might have, and it might be a problem carried over from the source you got it from is from this paragraph-

• Before the Eighty Years' War began, people realized that the West Indies trade might bring great prosperity to the country and that more power might be developed against Spain. Rather than travel to the area singly within an armed ship or in the company of a few other vessels, traders could do business in the manner of the large and prosperous East India Company. A company for carrying on commerce in the West Indies, Africa, and Australia could be organized, which might, like the sister company, act as the war-waging power in those parts and be supported by the treasury, ships, and troops of the United Netherlands.

The problem being that when the Eighty Years' War began Australia hadnt yet been discovered by the Dutch (or anyone else except the Aborigines, and some Indonesian fishermen) I dont know if that is a big enough wording issue to really worry about, but you may want to look into it and see what you think?Camelbinky (talk) 23:17, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I just finished, I made a change adding a non-breaking space to keep the last word of a sentence with the citation and I corrected what I think was a spelling error (excercised to exercised). I have three questions though-

• Is it possible to show how much the various money amounts given in florins and guilders are in dollars? If not, that's ok, I know there may not be a reliable conversion rate out there for it.
• Possible to show conversion of the amount of land given in bunders is in acres or hectares?
• His first wife Hillegonda, she is the neice of his uncle...was she and Kilean therefore cousins by blood (making them first cousins and therefore incest) or was this where she was the wife's neice and he was the husband's nephew type of deal? (or otherway around or some other combination of marriage and nothing to do with blood-relation).Camelbinky (talk) 23:48, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Will check in on those questions. I won't be able to do much with the currencies (btw guilder and florin are apparently identical, based on my readings). There's a story about the bunder; I'll try to include that. I'll check up on the incest issue. upstateNYer 19:35, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Featured x candidates (Regarding withdrawal)

It appears WP:Revoke provides a cogent compromise between your views and the others, no? The editor in question can "leave" and continue developing content elsewhere. The only thing that can't be undone is the content already submitted, which is essentially already in the wild, even if somehow it was removed from wikipedia. I'm not reading anything asserting to be like a encyclopedia Non-compete clause, where wikipedia has some right to the future work, or would have any basis to prevent the article from being developed in an alternative forum. Cheers! Cander0000 (talk) 06:35, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Albany Union Station move

Done. Daniel Case (talk) 20:04, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Obama visit

This could be a great addition to Capital District, assuming he says something positive about our local economy and tech valley. Read recently that Global Foundries is the largest project currently on track in the United States. Very notable to include in Economy that we were relatively successful during a hard time and have one of the best community colleges in the country. I'd wait to the speech is done though. upstateNYer 23:08, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I saw the headline but didnt read that article this morning, but now that I've read it I'm really glad you made me read it. Definitely a plus to add once more information comes in and President Obama visits. I can believe that its the largest project in the US, thousands of workers will be building it and its the only chip fab plant being built in the US right now (and none are even planned, so its not like we just got lucky and started first). Fabs are like the holy grail of regional economic planning, everyone wants one. I've been thinking of starting a Tech Valley article as well, since the Capital District article is already damn near, if not already over the suggested article size. A Tech Valley article could be more in-depth on these types of things. Unfortunately it includes Plattsburgh in the north and the IBM plants/HQ down in East Fishkill, areas I am not that familar with, anything north of Ticonderoga or south of Hudson I get uncomfortable with writting about because I have rarely, if ever, visited anything beyond them, but I can always research online and learn without physically ever going someplace (though it really bugs me to do that!).Camelbinky (talk) 03:06, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Albany/Schenectady border

Do you have a source for the fact that Albany and Schenectady counties' border is set from the old border of Rensselaerswyck? I can't remember if you did or not, but it would be helpful. upstateNYer 00:00, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Yea, I did but I cant remember if I put it on your talk page or mine, but I believe it was posted on your talk page. If you cant find it do a search on Google Books for the New York state laws for 1809 and in the book that has that year's laws do a search for "Schenectady County", and there will be the actual law setting forth the creation of Schenectady county and the borders will be given, they arent very exact but they do mention that the border goes along the old Rensselaerwyck border, and as far as I know Schenectady and Albany counties have not had any land swaps or annexations from each other since they separated. The creation of Niskayuna as a town from Watervliet is in the same book (same year 1809), possibly even in the same law as the creation of Schenectady County, it also mentions the Rensselaerwyck border if I remember correctly. The 1860 Gazetteer of the State of New York by JH French (also on Google Books) also mentions it I believe. The Timeline of town creation in New York's Capital District has the source you should need for the 1809 law, but I cant remember which one is the one you need for 1809.Camelbinky (talk) 02:24, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Re: Road terminology

I don't want to say yes, because I use those words, but don't conform to that document. The better person to ask is User:TwinsMetsFan. I assume you are referring to finishing the Round Lake Bypass (NY 915J).Mitch32 09:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, I was in really bad mood, but going by previous decisions. Anyway, be my guest.Mitch32 01:21, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

DP76764

Thank You for your comments on the Stephen Colbert_(character) page. It has been hard to add info to the page as DP76764 assertion that the show is not a source has repeatably come up before. Outback the koala (talk) 05:26, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

removal of content

hello, i see that you removed content from the ANI topic User:Ivankinsman_systemic_copyright_vio, per this. please refrain from doing so without stating a reason in your summary, especially on ANI. it may appear to be vandalism. I may also be wrong advising you now, if it happens to be, please feel free to point out. Ecoman24 (talk page) 23:13, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Dude, I dont know what you are talking about, I posted to the thread above and had nothing to do with the next thread. There was an edit conflict and that may have messed things up when I copy/pasted from the "your version" to the "stored version" I have always had a problem with the edit conflict page that pops up. If something got misplaced or erased it was an accident. Posting on my talk page is useless, I'm retiring and think dumb things like your post on my talk page dont help. Yes you were wrongly advising me right now. Sorry I'm being an ass, but I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of my account so there's nothing remaining at all.Camelbinky (talk) 01:12, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. I ve understood everything you have said. Please, don't retire. you are a very good editor. You will always come across criticisms. just understand that you will never meet most of these people who negatively criticize you. after all, they don't decide what you eat, where you go in life. so, just ignore every negative comment they make. sometime back, i was forced to retire by a wikistalker. now i ve learned to ignore negative criticisms. hope you stay my friend. Ecoman24 (talk page) 10:47, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

thanks

For standing up, taking my question as a question, and insisting that others view this reasonably. Sometimes I feel pretty lonely here, tonight thanks to you and some others I don't and i appreciate that, Slrubenstein | Talk 21:14, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I should have mentioned this too. Same author. People won't connect the dots ... Slrubenstein | Talk 21:40, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

ANI Thread

I've posted a reply to your comment over at ANI. I don't want you to think that I am in any way supporting the author of that article (I find it as abhorrent as you do), just that I don't want good editors (and I think you are one...at least I know your name and its not associated with anything bad in my mind!) to be blocked for a violation of WP:NPA that they didn't intend. Happy Editing! Frmatt (talk) 21:18, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

WT:IAR#A shining example of IAR in an early-closure of an AFD

I removed my recent addition to WT:IAR, but it should go somewhere. Can you think of a more appropriate place? davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 03:25, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

If you truly think that the admin did something wrong and should lose his admin title bring it to AN/I, I guess; or whatever the appropriate place for action would be. If you dont think you'd win, and you just want to vent- well, unfortunately there really isnt a place other than your own user page.Camelbinky (talk) 03:35, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I think you misunderstand. This administrator exercised boldness and wisdom by knowing when to ignore the rules. Someone else beat me to the punch and gave him a barnstar for it. I was so impressed that I wrote it up as an example of when to use IAR and put that write-up as a comment on the IAR talk page. At your request, I removed my statement, pending discussion. I'm still puzzled why you said "sour grapes."

Again, if you believe there is a more appropriate place to mention a shining example of a successful use of IAR rather than WT:IAR, I'm open to suggestions.

In retrospect, I should've made it clear that I was one of the ones endorsing the barnstar. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 16:05, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Waterford pics

Sorry about not getting those done; my wikibreak was very much unanticipated and took most of my time the last two weeks. I'll do my best over time, but no guarantees that they show up any time very soon. upstateNYer 00:20, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Take your time. Much more important things in life than this, so try and have some fun whenever you end up taking the photos, enjoy the scenery, see some sights, have fun.Camelbinky (talk) 00:33, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Block

This block was done in error; I am very sorry. Bearian (talk) 02:51, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I am so embarassed; I over-reacted and thought you had vandalized but it was done by an IP. You can scream at me now. Bearian (talk) 02:56, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I have no idea what you are talking about, but I'm sure it was an honest mistake and apparently went by so fast I never noticed! Thanks for the apology and I look forward to having a laugh about when you tell me whatever it is that happened! I know your work Bearian and respect you, whatever it was it was an honest mistake, no hard feelings.Camelbinky (talk) 06:36, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for understanding. I gave a warning to the IP who actually vandalized Talk:Kirsten Gillibrand, and it looked (at first glance) as though you had done it. LOL. Bearian (talk) 14:04, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

hello again!

Hi there, I happened to run into your notes on the Verifiability talk page - I like the way you put it and you can see these issues still exercise me. Made a post there, I had to get it off my chest; in connection with Jan Guillou, a very well-known Swedish journalist and writer (more writer than journalist these days) - on his bio page I ran into this insanely obnoxious rookie editor.

That article is more busy than normal right now; about ten days ago a tabloid here got hold of papers revealing that Guillou had been a KGB footman in his early years as a reporter around 1970. A very flammable revelation even if it doesn't seem that he actually delivered any classified secrets. So, there's been some people just pouring in tabloid junk over the article and some others, me included, trying to hold back. Then this guy who is basically completely new - he did a few edits eighteen months ago, then quit, unless he's been working under another account - makes some major cuts in the text to make it clearer and more reliable, and leaves no explanation. Some of what he cutr had to go, some of it - and some of my stuff - I thought he could have left in. Okay, I made a post on the article talk page and said it was well done to cut some of the crap but told him that he shouldn't go on to prune off everything he didn't spot a source for. Some of what Guillou has been writing and reporting about is controversial and difficult to rference now in a reliable way, and more so if you want the article to be intelligible to people who don't know a lot about Sweden. If one doesn't look out, the KGB thing might end up looking like the most important fact of his whole career in that article. So, the guy turns straight at me and starts imposing himself as Mr.I-Am-the-WP-Law, telling me as haughty as he can that everything must be sourced because it says so in the WP rules, "you obviously misunderstand what verifiability is about" etc etc. To make it even better, he feigns not to be able to understand when I address him in Swedish, though i knew from the start that we spoke the same tongue and there was no one else there to join in the discussion (it wnet on both at the Guillou talk page and his own).

It's bad enough to be spoken to top-down by a newbie who sets himself up as a judge, but when he further pretends not to know your language ("I am soooo cosmopolitan I will only address you in English") it really hits the big time. We did keep arguing and poking at each other in English- I finished by reverting back to Swedish and then calling him "mörön" to finish the proceedings ("ö" is a Swedish letter of course, wonder if he got that side of the joke....lol) He seems a complete jerk! Don't answer this at my page, I don't want him to come here and he could be a stalker type. /Strausszek (talk) 05:23, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Wow, he would annoy me too if I was in your situation. I wish I knew of a good course of action for you to do, but I too have problems with people who think of Misplaced Pages as laws that they themselves should and can impose on others. The best you can do, especially on articles that not many other editors will see and be able to help out, is to bring any issues you have with him to places like the WP:Reliable sources/Noticeboard or the WP:Original research/noticeboard and hopefully if a consensus goes your way that editor will respect it and not ignore you and the noticeboard's decision. I have no knowledge of Swedish, nor any knowledge about the journalist in question, so unfortunately I have little I could contribute to your dispute as I would have alot to catch up on regarding the dispute. I am proud to say my family can trace themselves back to the Yngling dynasty of Sweden by way of Rollo the Viking, and the dukes of Normandy. So if he argues with you too much just tell him a descendant of the gods Odin and Yngvi is on your side :-)Camelbinky (talk) 06:32, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I think there will be others weighing in on that entry too, so he will be busy if he's really going to guard it. Guillou is as famous in Sweden as Norman Mailer was in the US and this KGB story has really got fists flying. And controversy and scandal always sems to raise the activity on a Sweden-related article here.

Some of my countrymen here seem to think of WP as the place to show the world what Sweden really is about - the truths they feel they don't see stated in block type in papers at home - but at the same timne they fail to grasp that in order to show to foreigners why something like the IB affair is relevant and controversial far beyond what IB actually did, you need to provide a political and cultural context on some points. Swedes, more than Americans, tend to think that the facts - your choice of facts - speak for themselves, which makes it hard sometimes to discuss how to make an article understandable and cohesive to non-Swedes, or to discuss bias: "It should say Guillou is a spy because he is a spy - if you join the KGB then you're a spy like Philby! And he was even sentenced to prison as a spy back in '73!" (that verdict is regarded by very many people, not just on the left, as an abuse of justice, you see...)

He hasn't actually cut any more of the unsourced stuff yet. I'll try to get some good sources of course. I would like to know what he really thinks a BLP should look like - suggested to him in the last reply in Swedish on his talk page - the one that opens a new section called (after Swift!) "A modest proposal" - that he should sketch a few articles on journalists or political leaders at his sandbox to show what kind of article he would like to see, how much he feels it's encyclopaedic to include and how to phrase and source etc, and then we'd have something to discuss. So far, the Guillou rewrite is his single real contribution here! But maybe he's bolder when it comes to bragging about laws than actually enforcing them. :)

Thanks for the support of Odin and the Norman Dukes. Guillou, too, would have appreciated it! /Strausszek (talk) 13:50, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages discourse styles

Whatever you say, shit-for-brains. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 04:44, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Ill take that in good-faith :0}Camelbinky (talk) 04:49, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Hey, you said you wanted to see it more often in discussions, just granting your wish. :-) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 04:51, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you

I was going to message you to thank you for taking a stand with Eusebeus. Thanks for coming to me and expressing your thoughts regarding this chain of events. Yes, I feel wronged. All the way from the admins at the AN/I board today (about which Bwilkins later stated to SarekofVulcan on Sarek's talk page that they should all be ashamed of themselves, BTW) to the treatment I received over this civility issue. I just don't get why admins think they can behave this way and get away with it (maybe because they've been allowed to get away with it?). Anyway...yes, I would like some mediation/arbitration, whatever - in good faith I went and asked for someone to look into the civility issue (at the advice of Bwilkins, an admin) because I would like for the issue(s) JoyDiamond has with me to stop. I don't see her stopping, and someone obviously has to make it stop - one way or another. Thanks for being the adult here - I was starting to think that no one around here is anymore. ;-) SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 04:13, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

No problem, I am here to fight the bullies and protect those that dont get listened, you are always welcomed at my talk page. Here is a project I've been working on, so far only two supporters (including myself) but if interested in it, feel free to sign up and write any ideas down on the talk page or be bold and edit the "statement of values" if you want. Admins arent all evil, but some let it get to their head, which is why I think a better title is "school janitor", it reflects what they do more properly and with a title like that only the truly dedicated would want the "job".Camelbinky (talk) 04:31, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for checking in. So far, so good. Bwilkins has been kind enough to step in (and has done a very good job at it) and it appears that JoyDiamond is paying attention. Time will tell. While the actual mediation that was requested has not occured, I would like to keep that a possibility should things heat up between JoyDiamond and myself. I want to note, however, that the Charles Karel Bouley article (the one that JD is seemingly so obsessed by) has been locked again - and this time until February 2010. I think it's a good move by Black Kite and will hopefully keep JD from going bonkers again. Like I told Bwilkins the other day, I just want to edit Misplaced Pages in peace. In fact, I just joined the Misplaced Pages group, "Harmonious Editing Club". I'm really tired of all the arrogance and heavy-handedness and bullies amongst the administrators. My hope is that with a group like the HEC around, maybe I will have a group of folks with the absolute best of intentions for the encyclopedia in mind first to go to when sticky situations arrive. Thanks again for your assistance and having my back. It is appreciated. SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 04:38, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Okay...as of today, things have not changed at all. User:JoyDiamond is no longer listening and is now lodging ridiculous complaints against me (see WP:AN/I and section #26 "Tran, wiki- hounding and edit warring"). Also...if you would, take a look at the talk page for the article she is complaining about - John Tran - and see what she has just inappropriately placed there. If I say anything about what she's put there (or attempt to remove it), she'll no doubt scream stalking and harrassment to AN/I again - if *you* want to say anything to her, feel free. Thanks for your help and support. SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 03:07, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Hounding and stalking allegations.

Your claims are, predictably, ridiculous. I have replied at ANI. --hippo43 (talk) 23:42, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Dear Camelbinky, I'm aware that this is off topic, but it's on the same talk page for Misplaced Pages's talk-page guidelines. Your expressions drove me to think and think and think. Thanks. I'm not all that sorry for all of this, and I hope you aren't either. Please forgive my wordiness. Here it is. It's about neutrality and objectivity. I'm going to use the term colorization instead of saying "italics and bold" over and over.

• Misplaced Pages's aims at objectivity and neutrality in article space and on talk pages as well. It's a cultural thing that makes sense for an encyclopedia. Why talk pages? Because similar to the way a specific mentality is developed, or a particular talent is refined and strengthened for the greater good, by practicing neutrality in talk-space, where there is wider latitude and leniency than in main-space, there is fostered the general good of article page quality. This is very general, and obviously does not apply to you, since your articles are just as neutral and objective as can be. But for the more impressionable and sensitive youngsters, it does apply. That's why they call it a "culture". It grows the growing things. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your colorful personality. It just isn't policy, and not even the norm on talk pages. The encyclopedia is more about objects in space-time than the personal spirited experiences of being swept through time.
• If I want to I can show personality. There are no rules because no policy is ever neutral. The biggest blessing Misplaced Pages offers me is freedom to follow the rules in order to easily reform my behavioral aggression and unsightly passions. I simply edit them out before saving the page. As a result I can watch myself on the way to the wise who do the same act but in real-time, although mine is yet in a motion entirely too slow to count for anything more than the practice of personal morphology (at best).
• The aesthetic effect of blocks of words, with no colorization or lists ("Do not use lists..."), and which, when neutrally stated, maximizes the space, freedom and acceptability because the reader sees objects, like a rock, and is then free to be or do what they will with it: ignore, study, throw at enemy, etc. This honors the reality we live in because it emulates it. For example, given an unambiguous phrase, readers who are not told which words to stress, stress the ones they want. If the words are pre-stressed for them, it is difficult to stress other words they might have otherwise needed for themselves. No matter how strong our spirit, we cannot force ideas, but it is in the words themselves that the power to charm against all odds lies.
• Policy, political speeches, and police may be emotionally spirited, and definitely not neutral, but talk pages about policy need to be neutral. One of the worst problems for Misplaced Pages, who wants everyone to contribute, is the stress caused by not-so-subtle remarks on talk pages. The epitome of the disease is the stressful cabal syndrome which defends policy pages in a passionate way, doing things like sockpuppetry, threats, etc, anything to derail the attention to the actual desire to improve the policy, and it's a group effort. I understand you are just expressing yourself, and I have thanked you already for that. But please notice the stress you have caused. Just notice.
• An object is an an objective in that it outlasts any mood, and, like a rock, makes for foundation, or orientation. The difficulty in being objective is choosing content and structure, in a way that is acceptable in the biggest way (more minds for longer times).
• The difficulty in being neutral is presenting content and structure in a way that makes space for the reader to interpret it the way they will. It enables bias because bias will always be. The purpose of colorization is to disambiguate, otherwise it is not neutral because colorization biases words. Knowledge doesn't much need colorization except as disambiguation, or as a visual aid (such as bold for scanning and italics for word or idea connection).
• Policy is one-sided (it will be done this way); bold and italics are one-sided and "to be used sparingly" (telling readers how to stress the words in their inner ears). Similarly all caps are not to be used for emphasis. Neither policy nor colorization are neutral, which is multi-sided. To make it a guideline to liberalize colorization is to make it a recommendation to make rules, when in fact making rules provisions avenues of non-neutrality. Because neutrality is central, we say "there are no rules", because the ruling policy is non-neutral.
• Finally, if you will accept the admonition of WP:BB where it says "Other's will edit your writing. Don't take it personally!", then won't you make space for the expressions of the next generation, whom you have been stigmatizing and labeling in so many ways?

Thanks for reading. I think neutrality and objectivity have far reaching application, way beyond here.

— CpiralCpiral 22:10, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I thank you for your thoughtful insights, I'm glad I got you to thinking. I do write harshly and overstate my beliefs; but for a reason- by taking the extreme side of my ideas it then allows a compromise to be made towards a middle ground that is actually closer to what I actually want. I hope you dont mind that I made this a new thread on my talk page in order to make it distinct from others more rude comments above.

• I meant no disrespect towards the next generation, they are of course going to rescue us all from the foibles of the past generations (unfortunately they have to or else if they dont save us there wont be another generation after them). I dont fully agree (or understand) all of your points, but trust me I will be reading them many times and many time over until I do understand them.
• The compromise solution put in to the talk page guidelines regarding bolding and italics that Rd232 put in is pretty much exactly what I had hoped would be the change I wanted (had I originally proposed the same exact thing, it would have been compromised down to even less, so as in any "negotiation" you must start "higher").
• My main objective was to make remove the harshness of tone in the guideline, whenever I see a guideline (or policy) that unnecessarily portrays something as a clear-cut "you must not do..." such as the wording in the bold and italic section had, I feel compelled to see if it can be changed. No guideline (and most policies) should never be written in a way that anyone can interpret it as a clearcut all or nothing "rule".
• I hope this helps you understand where I am coming from. I would enjoy a discussion with you to further learn your ideas and discuss each of our opinions on the future of Misplaced Pages and its policies if you would like to we can set up a page as a forum were we can discuss similar issues as those you brought up here. I am grateful that you shared with me your thoughts and hope you continue to voice your very good opinions at many places in Misplaced Pages, the Community is much better by having your voice.Camelbinky (talk) 06:12, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

If you want to make this a new thread, I'll find it.

Thank you very much for your gracious response. Made my day.

I think you are ahead of me on your more clear realization of the tone of some policies and guidelines. Your statements here have entirely made it clear to me now, and I will join your efforts as I mosey along. But lucidity will be paramount for me because my and your new political correctness is just "clothing for a day". What I will be looking for is the tone that goes beyond pure description, and perhaps a reference to there are no rules. Keeping in mind that Ignore all rules invalidates itself and that Misplaced Pages is not that important, we shall set ourselves with the peace and humor of mind necessary to creatively impress the lasting contributions we truly deep-down desire.

As far as the future of Misplaced Pages, and discussions concerning truth (brutal), I'm open to a new topical wp:forum, but I don't know what that is. Assuming we'll just use traditional methods, (essays become real or defacto guidelines and policy), I threw my above writing into an existing essay of mine (in need of restructuring–hint hint) and setup a discussion (a forum?). I only know to suggest we strategize ways to encourage consensus to link that essay in, and that to succeed wildly we need to know the culture (e.g. LOL, troll, and Encyclopedia Dramatica) we seek to influence.

I think MediaWiki is an ideal platform for many useful things in life. My writing efforts above, and my future writing goals are part of my larger response to the general turn-off that the intimidation such as wikilawyering, and cabal are, and as are their counterparts in the real world. Having said that, and without too much attachment to it, and by having a desire to build this (for me new) territory with an open mind, it's essentially a motive compelled by a desire to (publicly) document what my learning experience is concerning the finest, exemplary, cure to bless the planet, ever: Misplaced Pages. To fulfill my desire to learn how objectivity and neutrality apply to Misplaced Pages, (where I got the interest in the first place), I write about it. I wrote there, above, a kind of opinion music, less a logic, more a spirit than than something that can easily be picked up and applied. That is my usual style, and it is difficult to read. But with your questions and editing, the writing would improve. I'm happy to relate about anything I write.

— CpiralCpiral 04:06, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

WP:POLICY

Our discussion at WT:POLICY seems like a reasonable choice for this Monday's WP:SIGNPOST Policy Review section. If you'd like to add to your comments, or add or subtract to the summary of your or anyone else's comments at WT:POLICY#Interview for Signpost, please feel free. (Watching) - Dank (push to talk) 21:39, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Wow, I have never been a part of a discussion that was put at the Signpost, that's pretty cool. Thanks for the heads up; I'm glad you started that thread at wt:policy its very interesting from both a practical and a theoretical standpoint. Your thoughts definitely made me think, and thinking is the most important thing to do in life (and something more Wikipedians should do for themselves).Camelbinky (talk) 01:17, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Great, I hope you'll keep participating. - Dank (push to talk) 01:56, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Here for support

I happened across your dispute completely by chance on the admin board, and I've never gotten involved in one of these disputes before before; however, I saw what hippo43 was doing and I felt obligated to try to do something. The last thing I want to see is someone leave because of one jerkoff. One time, when I was operating under the name of an IP, a friend of mine had a similar problem with another user, and the way we proved it was this; I took a page (if memory serves me correctly, it was a band called Lucifugum whose page has since been erased, much to my chagrin) and reconstructed it, but I saved the revised page to my user page and had my friend post those revisions to the page. When my friend posted it, the user who was hounding him came out of the woodwork, and gave us the evidence we needed.

Anyways, I really wanted to let you know, as an insignificant Misplaced Pages user who usually sticks to heavy metal and Rush stuff (and things related to those) that people do appreciate your work. Don't let people get to you, and if you have any issues with this hippo43 cretin again, I've got your back. It probably won't do a whole lot, but at least it's something. Again, thanks for all of the work you've put in!! Mønster av Arktisk Vinter Kvelden (talk) 06:02, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your support, it does mean alot. I do not consider your contributions to be insignificant, I dont think there is such a thing (except for vandalism) I bet alot of people have found your information to be very useful and helpful in learning about things that they find interesting. Just because some others on Misplaced Pages think certain types of articles are more important that doesnt mean its true.Camelbinky (talk) 20:16, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

If it'a anything to you, he's going after me now for calling him a cretin, claiming I personally attacked him. I'm not sure what he hopes to accomplish now, but I have a firm enough constitution that he doesn't frighten me in the least. Should I have called him a cretin? Maybe not, but he also should have raised an objection before a month went by. Frankly, if I were him, I'd be considering why I was being called a cretin, and maybe doing something about it. Mønster av Arktisk Vinter Kvelden (talk) 08:40, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

This is just my thought and I have no proof, but I'm thinking maybe he took a month off from "watching" me to let things die down and now he is catching up on reading my talk page and seeing what I am doing so that is why it has been a month, he just now read your post. Which, if true, makes it scary that he takes time to do that kind of stuff, what is it about my talk page that makes it like a soap opera to him? What could be so fascinating that he needs to read ANYTHING on my talk page? Can you say obsessed, stalker, and weirdo? But, sshhhh, we shouldnt type so much, he's watching us right now... I owe you a wikibeer if he responds to this and is all "upset". Maybe he shouldnt be reading my talk page then. :-)Camelbinky (talk) 23:45, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Adding to template

Hey, do you know if there is a Jewish and Muslim equivalent to Christian diocese in Albany? I just added this Religion and Culture section to {{Capital District}} and would like to be as inclusive as possible. upstateNYer 17:00, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I really like your thoughts about inclusiveness. I don't know about Muslims, but Jews don't give their religious leaders well-delineated districts in the way some Christian branches make parishes, dioceses etc. If we really want to include these groups in the template, it might be helpful to create articles about the topic such as "Judaism in the Capital District" and "Islam in the Capital District." BTW, I might be wrong, but I wouldn't think the Capital District's Muslim community is as notable as its Jewish community. The Jewish community is probably larger and almost certainly older, and important events in modern Jewish history have happened in the area. Not to say the area's Muslims aren't important, though, and even for a small community (or perhaps especially for a small community) it's nice to see Misplaced Pages preserving culture by featuring important things other information sources would overlook.

I also think that especially with the additional links, the "religion and culture" section of the template may be giving undue weight to religion. Perhaps some articles about specific cultural attractions could be added to the template to balance its coverage? --AFriedman (talk) 08:42, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

I would suggest if specific cultural attractions were to be put in, we should be very careful that it doesnt get out of control in the future with new editors adding smaller locations. Perhaps start with Albany Institute of History and Art, Proctor's Theatre (Schenectady, New York), Saratoga Race Course, and Times Union Center. I dont think the Islam in the CD article would at this time be notable enough to even exist. As for the Judaism in the CD article I recommend just adding everything and anything notable to the Culture in New York's Capital District#Religious life section until it is noticeably long enough to split as a stand alone article. I know the three temples in Troy, but am less knowledgeable about Albany, Schenectady, and Saratoga's temples (and I assume there must be at least a reform temple in other places like Glens Falls, Hudson, and Amsterdam).Camelbinky (talk) 00:09, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Tone

I think there are much better ways you could have expressed your disapproval here rather than resorting to biting language. There's nothing wrong with reverting people or disagreeing them (usually, at least), but there's no need to be rude about it. Happy editing. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:29, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

That user, SlimVirgin, whom I reverted has a reputation for making changes without first looking at the talk page and seeing why something was changed and he was told on the talkpage by a different user in the past about changing against consensus and was asked to come to the talkpage from then on. The common practice on policy pages is not to change something that is likely to be controversial unless you go to the talk page first. This was controversial and had been changed due to consensus.Camelbinky (talk) 02:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Random but relevant question

I have two questions for you and they both stem from a recent McDonald's ad (of all things). So McDonald's is playing ads around here for a special brew of coffee only served in the capital district. They have two radio ads and one tv ad. The plots of the ads revolve around one person having two coffees (assumedly one is for the friend they are about to talk to) and the friend thanks them for the coffee. The first person, before they will give the coffee away, asks three questions specific to the capital district. For the most part, the questions are different between commercials. Today I heard one that asks: Q: "Greenwich village?" A: "Lark Street". Have you ever heard of Lark St being referred to as Albany's Greenwich Village? After Googling it, I've not noticed anything notable. The second question is Q: "Original name of Albany?" to which the other answers (phonetically spelled, because I've never heard of it) "High-yuh-dare-uh-stare-is" and the questioner adds "I would have also accepted Beverwyck (pronouncing it Bev-er-vike, which is correct Dutch, impressively enough). Have you ever heard of this Hiyaderasteris? It would be sad if a lousy McDonald's commercial is outdoing us in research. :( upstateNYer 01:02, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

The Times Union did a piece on this McDonald's ad . Which is weird when you said that question was in there, because the TU article puts that question in the "Capital Regionisms that didnt make it" list; so when I originally read the article I wasnt too worried that the TU got history wrong. But the Kayaderossas (I believe is the spelling) makes the McD's people are wrong. That name was for a land patent roughly where the town of Malta is, parts of Saratoga Springs, and most likely neighboring towns. It is currently the name of the creek that is southern boundary of Saratoga Springs (bordering Malta) and empties into the Hudson in Stillwater (or Halfmoon?). To my knowledge I have never heard Kayaderossas as a name for Albany. Here is what the Colonial Social History Project of the NYSM has on their website- Camelbinky (talk) 03:46, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Holly crap! Nice find! I know of the creek; it's labeled on the northway between exits 13 and 14 if I'm not mistaken. Stewart's has Kaydeross Cream ice cream (vanilla with orange sherbet) but the creek is called the Kayderosserass (KAY-der-oss-er-ass). I've been told that even spelled that way, it's still pronounced KAY-der-oss, even though it has the extra 2 syllables. I never knew that pronunciation they mention though. Btw, I really wish they used the Ichabod Crane comment, because it's soooooo right and I would have laughed out loud. upstateNYer 04:24, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that the Ichabod Crane one was one of the funniest! Can you imagine how long their school year goes because they use so many snow days?Camelbinky (talk) 22:03, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

I emailed that link to the superintendent at IC; I met him a few weeks ago. Probably didn't appreciate it (in fact, now that I think about it, I wouldn't doubt that the ad company called first to make sure it was okay, only to be told no). Wouldn't want to piss off potential customers... upstateNYer 20:42, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Signpost?

Monday's Policy Report is going to be on WP:Civility, but we don't have enough quotable material from the talk page yet, so I'm beg ... er, soliciting opinions from people who have spoken up on that talk page recently. If you have something quotable, or if you don't, feel free to weigh in at Misplaced Pages talk:Civility#Policy report_for_Signpost. - Dank (push to talk) 23:13, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Your recent comment at the village pump...

... is absolutely spot on. Please do not feel constrained from posting opinions as sensible responses to stupid arguments are always welcome. Spartaz 07:30, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Question

Do you have a reliable source containing 1) the year Lansingburgh was chartered, 2) what type of municipal body it was chartered as, and 3) what year it was annexed as part of Troy? Thanks! upstateNYer 07:30, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

responded at Upstater's talk pageCamelbinky (talk) 23:49, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

I have forgotten ... (random watchlist rhetorical praise)

I have forgotten ... if we have ever been at odds ... whether you are good or evil :-) ... well, I don't know anything about you at all that I can remember ... but this is well said. Love the peroration especially:

Hear hear. Amen. Happy holidays to you, Camelbinky — who, for now, I'll remember for the above.
-- Proofreader77 (talk) 22:39, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Extra points

• Also from MI5, like me. lol Proofreader77 (talk) 03:29, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

List of New York State Historic Markers in Albany County, New York

Hi. I think that the List of New York State Historic Markers in Albany County, New York is complete. I have added a discussion on the point to the talk page there. Take care, --Igoldste (talk) 20:40, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

You got me, it is in fact complete. Concerns I have with the skimpy one sentence lead are on the talk page of the article. Feel free to ignore them, just suggestions. Good work though! List has come a long way due to your hard work.Camelbinky (talk) 22:03, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

History of Troy has begun

Just so you know I'm working on it. ❄ upstateNYer ❄ 19:45, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Happy belated Hanukkah, by the way. :) ❄ upstateNYer ❄ 19:46, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

❄ upstateNYer ❄ is wishing you a happy Capital District holiday! Wikiproject Capital District is coming up on one year of successful work. I'd like to thank you for the help and support, and effort to expand the scope of New York's Capital District on Misplaced Pages. Enjoy your respective holiday and best wishes for the coming new year (especially related to your content work on Misplaced Pages)!

Pollepel Island/Bannermans Island map

A full year ago you asked about a map of Pollepel Island/Bannermans island, well there is one used in the plaque the trust installed near the island . If the source for that is available, then that could be used. possibly ? How about Nautical maps of the river? Aren't those public? I have some of those and will scan if it's useful.--Kangry (talk) 17:40, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Beeren Island

On January 5, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Beeren Island, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 12:00, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Please send email

Would you mind sending me an email, so I can have your address? I want to send you something to look at. upstateNYer 22:51, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Just sent it. upstateNYer 00:38, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to hear what you think, if you've had a chance to read some of it. upstateNYer 02:55, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Update

Happy new year! Thought you might be interested in what happened at Talk:Margaret Clark, User talk:JoyDiamond, User talk:SkagitRiverQueen and User talk:AFriedman. --AFriedman (talk) 17:06, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks but that drama got too heavy for me. I just hope it got resolved and everyone can just edit peacefully and civilly.Camelbinky (talk) 18:09, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I was doing some work to resolve it and am quite pleased with how I think it's been settled. Go take a look.  :) --AFriedman (talk) 03:40, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Happy new year! In perusing this page I can piece together some bits and see that you've been looked *after* by some of the nice WP editors, including one or two I've had the good fortune to meet as well. Nice to see you're back. Strausszek (talk) 04:19, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! I truly appreciate it when people mention they appreciate me. Let me know if I can ever give any assistance in any way.Camelbinky (talk) 00:31, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, you are clearly a genius ...

(No, not mocking. LoL) Re: this example of brilliance.

NOTE: I have just gotten off my second block amidst giving $1,000 to Misplaced Pages. (Smiling but not joking).

FYI: Will be initiating an Arbcom case soon. (Perhaps with musical chorus — perhaps not kidding about that either — see Misplaced Pages Western (musical) in the works: see my user page for clues to the style).

Tonight, while listening to Lyle Lovett singing about riding his pony on a boat, just smiling at your brilliance. Proofreader77 03:24, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Im not quite sure I follow your post (I really do have the H1N1 flu right now and am not up to any deep thinking right now!) however I believe it was a compliment and not a sarcastic remark about my comment. Good luck at your Arbcom case, I'd be interested in what its about and if I can help. My post at the Village Pump wasnt the most eloquent I have written, I was quite pissed at the time in general at Wikipedians spouting social cohesion and political theory that freshmen learn (and then learn in grad school learn is a bunch of baloney and need to unlearn it). I am quite frustrated with these "arm-chair political theorists" thinking they can read a little Rouseau and Marx and become experts on how people organize and the structure of political systems. I literally am an expert on politics. (and yes my IQ does by definition makes me a genius). I am curious about what you agree with in particular about my post.Camelbinky (talk) 04:10, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

If getting blocked for giving $1,000 sounds silly, you're right. LoL (Not quite how the blockers would put it, now would they? ^;^ NOTE: Yes, I donated $1,000 in response to Jimbo's end-of-year appeal. An important gesture of belief in the project.)

re: "political"
Consider the book title: The Attack of the Blob: Hannah Arendt's Concept of the Social

Now posit: "The political" vs "The social"

Let us say that in "the political" (ideal) realm ... strangers interact "under law."

But in "the social" realm ... groups interact with individuals ... in, um, reindeer games (remember, Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer? :)

Arbcom is more an embodiment of "the social" than "the political." It is not a matter of "people under law" but people not complying with "the social." yada yada yada

NOW ... imagine that Proofreader77 is an expert of rhetorical interaction which means expertise in persuasion ... which means understanding "the social" ... as well as how ideal application of policy would resolve if there was no "social corruption" (but noting that "the social" usually has ideals which may be appealed to under certain circumstances) ... etc etc etc ...

BUT you are sick right now, so let me stop now ... with that hand waving in the direction of the path.

By the way, do you remember the ending moments of The Matrix (film)? LoL ... Now imagine something vaguely similar ... with singing. :-) Get well soon. (P.S. some hints here) -- Proofreader77 05:12, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Re: This may be useful for you...

Thanks. And this may be of use to you. Transcribed for my research, but thought it may help you source some things. upstateNYer 01:33, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

I have two discrepencies with that source compared to French's Gazeteer, which itself is not always reliable. So I have been searching the actual colonial laws, and I have put on that page in small print the parts regarding Pittstown that I have been unable to verify. If you happen across more sources with more information backing up Pittstown's history I would be grateful for any changes to make the Timeline of town creation in New York's Capital District more accurate. Pittstown is one of those towns that seem to have multiple forms of spelling and capitalization format (Pitt's Town) the farther back you go so its hard to do a word search for it.Camelbinky (talk) 00:42, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Plus even today, their government is just so small that there is no real "organization", if you will. Weird place. I'll keep my eye out. upstateNYer 01:59, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

What is the equivalent word for mass (liturgy) in Judaism? upstateNYer 02:58, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, I had to actually research exactly what the word mass meant before I could answer this! I assume you want a word refering to a "religious service" in the generic form since Jews dont celebrate "mass" (apparently a Roman Catholic term) under any word (whereas Orthodox Christians and some Protestants do but often use a different term). The most common terms in English I know of that are used by Jews are the generic terms like "service", "religious service", or "prayer"; especially among Reform Jews who are more assimiliated into US culture the sentence most likely to be heard is "I'm going to services tonight", often with the holiday mentioned. If you need a Hebrew word- tefilah is the hebrew word for prayer and avodah is the word for worship (or prayer service would be better I guess, I dont know if it really means to "worship" like as in "he worships money"). There are specific special prayers in the Jewish liturgy such as the Sh'ma and Kiddish; and the mincha is a religious prayer reading (or full service) for orthodox and conservative Jews done daily; the siddur is the name of the prayer book. I guess I cant really answer if there is a direct word for liturgy used by Jews... I would just use a generic term.Camelbinky (talk) 04:32, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Animation

Hello Camelbinky. I'm still looking for someone willing to do this animation task. GIF is beyond my skill and some editors at Commons experienced in this area seem to be inactive. Just a ping to let you know that I haven't forgotten about your request. Cheers, --ZooFari 00:39, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for doing the legwork on that! Is there any place I should be posting a request at in order to put the word out? If there's anyway I can help let me know. Thank you again so much for your time and effort. I think whenever it is done it will be quite interesting and appreciated by many readers.Camelbinky (talk) 04:36, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Truckads.com

Mmkay. Does this mean i'm in trouble or did something wrong? RingtailedFox • Talk • Contribs 22:02, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

I see. I think you'll have to talk with Stifle about that. Perhaps he thought they were a copyright violation becuase Nielsen says their DMA maps are proprietary and copyrighted and cannot be used withotu permission, and Truckads.com has copies of the maps that they made themselves... I suppose would be like me drawing the logo of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, for example. RingtailedFox • Talk • Contribs 22:13, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Civility

Well said ! Bishonen | talk 11:07, 29 January 2010 (UTC).

Thank you! Glad to know others agree with that point of view.Camelbinky (talk) 21:35, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Historical populations

What's your source for the historical population in Albany at History of Albany, New York? I'm trying to find the same thing for Brunswick. upstateNYer 01:20, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Hello - still interested in incivility blocks?

Not sure if you are still following Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incivility blocks, but there are a few initial proposals for the actual text of the policy that are now on the page. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) 13:53, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

NY 9R

You trashed up the junction list, added unnecessary links (the links to town and city are clear cases of overlinking), incorrectly capitalized items that are not proper nouns ("exit 7"), and used unnecessary abbreviations ("ext." vs. "extension"). I shouldn't have to be the one responsible for mopping up this mess. – TMF 17:04, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

If you dont want to make it better, then just dont bother with working on it or reverting it then. You could have posted on the talk page or on my talk page here as you've done. The article was WRONG. If I took the attitude that cleaning up wrong information in articles shouldnt be my "responsibility" then that would be a shame.Camelbinky (talk) 17:12, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Including the two links you mention I added only three links all together, hardly overlinking. And as New York towns are unique it is standard practice to link them at their first mention so it cna be known that these are political entities and not "town" as in "settlement".Camelbinky (talk) 17:17, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Replacing Infobox settlement with Geobox

I don't really care which box is used, but it would be great if you preserved the data during the conversion. In particular, the map and coordinates were removed. Otherwise, it looks like you added some more data, which is of course an improvement. I will see if I can sort out the rest. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ 19:23, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for catching the map and coord problem on that one. I did over 9 articles recently with changing the infobox to the geobox while at the same time doing huge additions to history and geography sections and luckily this seems to be the only one I missed on. Thank you again for the catch and fix. Sorry for any inconvenience. Hope you enjoyed the history section I put in, let me know if there is anything I can do for you.Camelbinky (talk) 02:27, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

No problem. By the way both {{Infobox settlement}} and {{Geobox}} do automatic conversion from either imperial to metric or metric to imperial. All you do is leave one of the fields blank. I have no idea why people fill in both fields. For automatic density computations, you set the corresponding density field to auto. As I said, I really don't have a preference which box is used, but as far as I can tell they are almost entirely feature compatible. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ 15:10, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Lisha's Kill

Thanks for your note. One of my great-great-grandmothers was a Lansing from Lisha's Kill. I did a double-take when I saw that community's name in your note to Doncram. I don't remember her father's first name right now, so there's not much purpose in looking at maps to find which tract she lived on. However, in the Bi-Centennial History that you cited, I saw the name of the man (unrelated) that my great-grandfather (her son) was named for, so I already learned something! I've had a belief that family history justifies creating articles about tiny, obscure communities, and this experience supports that theory. You have done a nice job of documenting this almost-forgotten community. BTW, I looked at the site in Google maps, and I see the Dutch Reformed Church in streetview, so it's clear that the church still exists. --Orlady (talk) 03:06, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Your family is VERY important to the greater Albany and Troy areas especially to Cohoes, Lansingburgh (obviously) and many other small communities. It's true that Lisha Kill is almost forgotten, the town's recent master plan and zoning calls for it to be a rural buffer between Stanford Heights and Maywood (two larger hamlets) and while that protects this community from strip malls and more car dealerships it does take away any hope of creating a sense of neighborhood and just makes it a dividing line between the two other places. Like lots of other communities in this area once they lose their post office like Lisha Kill did, and people have to start using another place's name for their mail the community's identity is soon lost or at least slowly canabalized. Even communities live under the survival of the fittest philosophy. Roessleville, New York will be the next one on my list of soon to be forgotten hamlets I hope to save.Camelbinky (talk) 03:58, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Just so you know

I superseded File:Sauthier Albany County.jpg with File:Albany County 1777.png, which is a crop I made from File:NewYork1777MapRestoredSmall.png, which is an awesome map from the time. I made some crops for Tryon County, New York and Charlotte County, New York, but keep your eye out. A crop of this map could be used in many places, so feel free to chop away and use as necessary in articles. Also, you should check out this. Note the subjects (categories) listed on the bottom. Check them out, there are some good maps out there. upstateNYer 03:33, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Much better, cleaner, and clearer maps!Camelbinky (talk) 05:05, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

In need of a source

I'm in need of a source that says that Lansingburgh was annexed into Troy and what the date was. Do you have one? Also, have you seen anything around in your travels that discusses the land deals between Troy and Brunswick? (i.e. when different parts were annexed to each other. They seem to have gone back and forth in some instances). Thanks. upstateNYer 12:06, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Re; State highway system

That would be a case of the state maintains a totally different system than what it is. For example New York State Route 911E is State Highway 656, a different number entirely. They're just internal, unsigned route #s for the state.Mitch32 10:52, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Just so you know

I created Hamlet (New York), City (New York), Village (New York), and Town (New York) so we don't have to link to sections of an article directly, which is now frowned upon. upstateNYer 22:36, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll use them from now on and change the others as I remember.Camelbinky (talk) 23:19, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Proof read request

Would you mind giving Joseph H. Allen a proof read? I pretty much finished it (i.e. exhausted all available sources on an obscure guy from the 1850s). I'm going to see if I can bring this to GAN and be taken seriously. :) Thanks in advance! upstateNYer 22:31, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

What is MerlinOne?

I saw this link on your user page. What is Merlin One? Does it hold old articles from papers? Because that would be extremely helpful. upstateNYer 02:00, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Its the service that the Times Union now stores its archives, when you pull up the archives on their website it still looks the way it always did, but apparently when you copy/paste the url and later click on the link it occasionally shows the article from the Merlin One website instead of the TU, and sometimes it shows it as the TU website (why or how I have no clue, guessing the TU saves money by outsourcing it and sometimes the redirects arent working?) I havent had the chance to explore Merlin One and see what else it has though. I have found Schenectady Gazette archives for 1920-1997 at Google News, that may come in handy for you, though I'm unsure of just how well they have historically covered Rensselaer County.Camelbinky (talk) 16:35, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

I have a subscription to NewspaperArchive.org which holds the Troy Record and Times Record, so that's helpful with my research. How far back do the TU archives go now? Before it was limited to 1986. Is it any further now? upstateNYer 16:38, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Still 1986, havent been able to find any service that carries it farther. The TU archives also have the Knickerbocker News from 1986 to their merger with the TU. It sucks because the TU is 150+ years old and its stories are stuck in library microfiche and microfilm. The NY Times online archives last I checked are still free and go back to the 1860s or earlier.Camelbinky (talk) 16:47, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Your note

I am sorry, but I don't see how this has anything to do with SV, or is in any way "arrogant". There is clearly broad consensus that policies override guidelines; for example when there is conflict between WP:V and WP:IRS. Noticeboard are essentially random editors explaining their opinions about the relevant policy. Quite often, a single editor's opinion is used to "decide" an issue. But even if there are more editors forming a local consensus on a board, it can never override the governing policy. A board is a place where people gather to interpret a policy in specific cases, not to change the controlling policy. In case of conflict, the policy overrides until it is changed. Crum375 (talk) 23:35, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Misuse of sources

See here and here. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 14:00, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm confused as to what this is in regards to... My apologies for not being clear headed right now and not putting the pieces together.Camelbinky (talk) 23:10, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I believe these are specific instances that show what we've been discussing on the WP:V talk page regarding sourced information being false and ties into the quotes at the top of my talk page as well. Thank you for this. It is sad there are so many of these instances in which information looks to be well-sourced but in reality the information bears no resemblence to the source itself.Camelbinky (talk) 23:21, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Category fix

Category:People from Capital District, New York really should be Category:People from New York's Capital District. Same with Category:Television stations in Capital District, New York. Categories are a bit finicky, so I'm not sure if it's a simple move. Would you be willing to look into this? upstateNYer 02:37, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Sure, I'm just re-reading the Capital District article again for grammar and spelling and such. Once I'm done I can goof around with moving it, probably a simple move to a new name, though I guess I'll have to write down all the articles in each category and go back to change the category name because we dont want them categorized to a redirect...Are those the only two or are there more? (and Im sorry if I'm the one who created the categories and put the wrong name! ooops!)Camelbinky (talk) 02:48, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

There's a way to make a cat redirect to another cat, but it's not as simple as a regular redirect. Might have to ask around a bit. Not sure if you it's as simple as moving a category to a new category name, though. Again, will have to ask around a bit. upstateNYer 20:30, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

US News and World Report and the CMT

If you could give a few details about the article I'd like to track it down and see if it would add to the article. Eugene (talk) 17:53, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Not just one article, an entire special edition devoted to the entire subject. Should still be on the newstands; I got my copy at Walmart. I can get the actual magazine issue number and other relevant information if it is still at my work tomorrow and wasnt put out in the trash.Camelbinky (talk) 17:59, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Is it this one? Or this one? I might be able to get full text access online, if I can locate the exact issue. --Akhilleus (talk) 19:58, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

First one.Camelbinky (talk) 22:20, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll see if I have access. --Akhilleus (talk) 00:19, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Sadly, I don't seem to be able to access it online. --Akhilleus (talk) 02:06, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I dont recall USN&W being JSTOR but anyone with access to a college library (or a large public municipal library) can go to JSTOR for free and perhaps it is there; I'm sure there'd be lots of different articles from different journals on this topic anyways so it may be worth it. Its a shame there is (to my knowledge) no way for the Foundation to pay for a subscription and then allow all editors of Misplaced Pages to use the subscription. It truly would be an invaluable source, especially for topics like this that get lots work published in professional journals that are hard to access.Camelbinky (talk) 03:25, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

How do you want to handle this?

You posted some comments on my talk page. Do you want me to respond on your talk page or do you want me to respond on my talk page? How do you want to handle this? By the way, I don't consider you an enemy, in spite of my good faith comments regarding your accusations against Eugene. You simply made, IMHO, a slanderous comment. If that was not your intention, then I'm willing to assume good faith and ignore it. But if you really intended it to be slanderous, then we can discuss it in another venue. Please note that my comments on ANI were NOT meant as a threat, or as an attempt at bullying. I sincerely believe there is an injustice being done, and I simply want to give detractors the opportunity to reconsider their emotional outbursts so that we can all work together to create a great article. Thank you for your consideration. Bill the Cat 7 (talk) 23:21, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

How do I want to handle this? I want you and Eugene to drop the whole issue of Slrubenstein "being mean" to Eugene. Other than that I have no intention of continuing this or of apologizing for having my personal opinion that Eugene made poor choices in continuing to make comments that multiple editors told him MUST stop. You are not helping yourself, nor Eugene, by making the statement you made at AN/I or here on my talk page. Btw- slander is spoken, and it along with libel are legal concepts; as Eugene was warned at AN/I by multiple editors- please dont use such words when making accusations against other editors. I appreciate that you are fighting because you believe there is an injustice; however please appreciate and accept that the only injustice I saw was the analogy and comparison Eugene made and continued to make even after he was asked by many editors to stop. I have no intention of this being continued, respond wherever you wish, that wont change the fact that I dont care.Camelbinky (talk) 23:32, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough. Thank you for frankness. But let me reiterate, I'm not your enemy, and I have no intention of treating you as such. We just have a difference of opinion. Bill the Cat 7 (talk) 23:47, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments in the Slanderous Accusations of Anti-Semitism thread. I don't think we met but thank you! jbolden1517 10:24, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Facebook/Wikipedia integration

Facebook has made a page for anything you want to put on your profile, so if you say you're from Albany, New York, it links to a Facebook page that currently defaults to an imported version of the article from here. Talk about pressure! That's a lot more eyes seeing our work! upstateNYer 01:16, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Well...that's going to definitely up our readership on the plus side! Its just such a large article with alot of work from many different editors already put in it... its not like when we did the Capital District article where we pretty much did it from scratch; I just dont know if I have it in me to help on an overhaul of an article so established with so much good sitting next to so much that needs cleaned up, there's multiple issues with it and articles that need to be spun off from it... still burnt out from my marathon of "creating something better than a stub" for every hamlet in Albany County that I could find something notable or interesting about; BUT I think starting tomorrow I can start working on it...Camelbinky (talk) 03:16, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Surge on Albany, New York

I think we should tackle this. Let's bring it to GA status. I think you were using NYC as a basis, but that's under WP:FAR right now, and honestly, it's not that great. However, Washington, DC is a recently elevated FA and also a capital city. I think the first step, along your expertise, would be to summarize History of Albany, New York for use in the main article, only noting general things (nothing too specific, is all I'm saying). Let's start the rewrite here. When DC made it to FA, it was covered by the Washington Post. I wonder what could happen to us. :) I'll also work on finding good/better images for use in the article. upstateNYer 22:19, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Didnt know that about NYC, that's sad, lots of editors have worked hard on that article, but it probably suffered from too many cooks in the kitchen because it was such a popular article. Sounds good to start it in a sandbox first. Ill start the second I have can schedule a big block of time.Camelbinky (talk) 18:00, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Nice. On a very unrelated note, would you mind putting your 2¢ in here? Don't get too long winded or upset, please. :) But I'm sick of the conspiracy theories. You've seen my work, and I think you appreciate and respect it. Maybe you can impress upon them I'm not here to blow the place up and/or ruin someone's life? upstateNYer 21:41, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Ignore the above comment. It has been taken as canvassing. While that was not my intent, I can see where they're coming from. Getting back to more productive matters, after reading DC a few times, I think we can hit this section by section, possibly even copying what they used there. I'm gonna start on the Media section I think. upstateNYer 02:17, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

GRRRRRRRR! After simply skimming the link you sent me (which is why you should delete things you dont want me to see instead of striking them through ;)) I must say I'm PISSED at how this is being handled and if it wasnt for so many editors watching my talk page hoping I say something uncivil... Lets just say I didnt like Rico's comments at ALL of the many places this Ely issue has come up with and I havent liked Delicious Carbuncles comments at pretty much any place I see him/her, this isnt my first go-around with that editor. I didnt see where they accused you of canvassing but if they said anything even remotely rude about me or towards you for doing it please let me know. As far as Rico's comment saying "Jimbo called it a hatchet job" that is taken out of context and let Rico come here and say it wasnt taken out of context because it was I was at the discussion and read first hand Jimbo's original comment and he had gone on and given you AGF and said the sources used already painted that picture, you were going by the sources, I did not see that Jimbo accused you of anything improper, though perhaps we should have him comment and see what he thinks of your work if they are going to throw around Jimbo's name like that. ARRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH! One freakin article is ruining the overshadowing and ruining the reputation of the NYCD wikiproject, I think we've done so much good and now this....Camelbinky (talk) 05:25, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Yea.

We'll get over it. I need some citations at Albany, New York/Rewrite#Media. Has some great facts, but few sources. I got some in for newspapers, but that's about it. Once we cite all those statements, that section will be done. upstateNYer 05:54, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I'll do my best on those sources tonight, though I'm probably going to hit the hay soon. You should consider it too, must be past 2am your time.Camelbinky (talk) 06:01, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Yup it is. Also, what's the name of the state office complex located here: 42°40′46.77″N 73°48′34.82″W / 42.6796583°N 73.8096722°W / 42.6796583; -73.8096722 Is there an article for it? upstateNYer 06:08, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Governor W. Averell Harriman State Office Campus; it was established by the said governor, predates the ESP and next door SUNY campus (both of which were constructed by Governor Nelson Rockefeller) by at least a decade or two. Pataki had plans to move just about all state workers out to downtown Albany, Schenectady, Troy and completely sell it off to a developer as a mixed use tech/office space with townhouses, hotels, parks, eliminate the ring road and demolish all but one or two state buildings, connect it to the surrounding communities and the university, Spitzer reworked the plans from scratch with little enthusiasm for the idea, and finally Paterson has killed it, there is currently plans of selling off bits and pieces and giving some to the university. The state police academy is there, squished between the ring road and the university campus. The portion along the top on the north side of Washington Ave was already sold two decades or more ago to a private company and is now the Patroon Creek Corporate Park.Camelbinky (talk) 06:18, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Replies

Disruptive incivility, to the point of "hostility", again

I never threatened to remove any Wikipedian's comments. Please stop accusing me of things I haven't done. The posts I deleted were inserted into the middle of a post of mine.
UpstateNYer linked to my edit in the post you replied to. Did you click on it and read the edit summary, "Delete text inserted into the middle of my post, something I object to, per WP:REFACTOR, Misplaced Pages:Be_bold#User_namespace and Misplaced Pages:Talk_page_guidelines#Others.27_comments"?

• WP:Be_bold policy states, "It is generally recommended that you do not edit another Wikipedian's comments left on talk pages (other than your own, and even then do not be reckless)."
  
• "Refactoring talk pages states, "If another editor objects to refactoring then the changes should be reverted."
  
• "Talk page guidelines: Others' comments states, "Editing – or even removing – others' comments is sometimes allowed. But you should exercise caution in doing so, and normally stop if there is any objection."
  

I objected.
If you think you can make a case, and that is what you want -- even though people keep telling you that "Misplaced Pages isn't a battleground" -- go right ahead. You tried that before, but wound up blocked by Seresin for "Personal attacks and hostility" -- after writing things like this.
And you should let people know when you're discussing them and colluding to take something to ANI -- which would be an abuse of process, something that is considered disruptive, and you've been told about being disruptive,. Didn't you hear that?
Hippo43 (who you called a "freak" and a "weirdo") wrote that UpstateNYer supports you,, and I see it -- even to the point of wanting to defend you without even knowing what you're accused of -- but don't you think you're going too far, repaying the favors, or just being loyal?
"GRRRRRRRR! ARRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!"?
Since I mentioned Seresin and Hippo43, by name, I advised them of this. -- Rico 20:02, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages process discussions