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Brett Jon Salisbury

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Brett Jon Salisbury (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)
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Article about possibly barely notable college athlete that is pure puffery and spam about his current business. While citations are provided, they do not resolve as useful references Esprqii (talk) 16:49, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Articles are absolute and are not puffery. The Consumer Digest Report proves it. Also the guy was Ex Communicated from LDS church. How is this puffery? The references are from every college attended. He was also the starting quarterback the university of oregon which qualifies him as a starting quarterback. The person also has a book that is published for heath and wellness. Do not remove. KEEP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.160.209.194 (talk) 17:21, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Comment: The Wayne State links are broken. The consumer digest report website looks like a promo website for the book. The only link that works shows he was the 72nd best high school athlete from North San Diego County. Looks like he played, or maybe even started, a game or two for the Ducks in 1991 before Danny O'Neil took over and Salisbury transferred. All the business about his NFL Europe career and modeling career are completely uncited. This article has been created and deleted before. --Esprqii (talk) 17:34, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment: see also Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Brett Salisbury. --Esprqii (talk) 16:52, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment: The Wayne State links are no longer broken. The consumer digest report has been around since 1971. Don Clayton is a Editor in Chief and is a Berekely graduate with no agenda. Salisbury was an excommunicated BYU mormon who started 5 games for the Oregon Ducks. He was hurt and transferred at the end of the year to Wayne state college where holds 10 Divison II NCAA records. He played in the same league as Kevin Craft plays in now. If you google brett salisbury the pics of him in GQ are solidified. When Esprqii explains that Salisbury only started 1 or 2 games is not true as proven with the new links below. It also states that salisbury EFAF is an affiliate of NFL europe. Article doesn't state he played in NFL europe. The facts that salisbury started 5 games for the oregon ducks and he is an author of the transform diet which finished 6th last year with publishing company indeed qualifies him as notable. The reason as I check salisbury was deleted was the fact that nobody proved he was a football player in college and his book was still not published at the time. Both of which now are proven. I have been a season ducks fan for over 30 years. Salisbury was hyped up to be the next NFL great. He didn't make as we had all hoped at oregon but he did start the last five games after a ruptured hernia. but he did start five games. Thank you again all links below work are based on facts. OregonDucksFan57 (talk) 18:26, 24 September 2010 (UTC)OregonDucksFan57
Reply: You say that the Consumer Digest Report has been around since 1971, but there is no evidence of that. Certainly in that time, the website has not hired an editor, and suspiciously, of the "top 10 diet books of 2011" the first 9 receive brief reviews and #1 gets a glowing endorsement, and the fewest typos. Not only that but book #2 tells you that you should really read book #1. I can't find anything to establish that Consumer Digest Report is what you say it is. Moreover, Salisbury started just one game for the Ducks and didn't do such a hot job. He did play in five games though. He may well be notable enough for Misplaced Pages as a football player, but the article as written seems as if it were written to promote his book, much like the Consumer Digest Report website. --Esprqii (talk) 18:34, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment: Whois shows that consumerdigestreport.com is registered to hitfarm.com and provides no contact info. hitfarm.com looks like a spam or seo domain provider. Sailsbystars (talk) 00:18, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I only can say what I read. Under Better Business Bureau the consumer digest report has been around since 1971. It may have been a publication like all others as a newspaper. I read the consumer digest report. Number one should get a glowing review should it not? However this isnt the concern either. Salisbury Did for a fact start against UCLA, Cal Berkely, Oregon State, New Mexico State and came in off the bench against USC to do a good job. Book finished number 6 and number 1 diet book as stated. Again, the fact that he has a published book and is a notable figure as a quarterback in college you have to keep. I would ask you to help in this cause. I don't find anywhere that promotes the book, only an opinion of what other people believe. I like that we both can help make wikipedia stronger. I think we have solved this and I would ask you to remove from delete as you admitted and see that he is notable based on your own admission that he is a start collegiate player at all levels. Thanks again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by OregonDucksFan57 (talk • contribs) 18:43, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Once again I see an error Esprqil. I am just stating the facts. The article you refer to salisbury's only start was an article written before the UCLA game. This is the second game where salisbury starts against Tommy Madox at UCLA. He still had 3 games after this article where he starts. You must read the entire artice to keep all facts straight. Again Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by OregonDucksFan57 (talk • contribs) 18:47, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for removing from speedy deletion Esprqil. I believe that is fair and truly just. A lot of time has been spent on this guy as I have now seen from the past. I hope you now can make a case that he is notable. I will try myself now to re write from an unbiased source. I look and read the article and it is very unbiased. I again appreciate you bringing this to light and will make us all a better source finder. —Preceding unsigned comment added by OregonDucksFan57 (talk • contribs) 18:52, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

OK, it looks like he started three games in 1991: Cal, UCLA, and Oregon State, and then left for Division II. Oh, and it wasn't me who removed it from speedy deletion. I think this is the right process and we need to let others weigh in. While I have written many articles about college football players, I have never tried to pump them up like this article, which looks more like someone trying to sell his book. Really, stuff like having a .408 batting average in high school and being the 72nd best high school athlete in San Diego doesn't establish notability, nor, sadly, does the Helsinki Giants career. Minor league NFL teams don't cut it to establish notability. That's not to say they couldn't be in the article, but so far, the best claim to fame is the Oregon and Wayne State career. I'd refocus the article on that. Convert the external links in the article to actual citations so we know what is being cited. Tone down the high school batting average (uncited) and the modeling career (uncited). Why not mention that he is the brother of Sean Salisbury? Find another citation for why the book is so great. It seems much more like someone trying to push his own book than a neutral, encyclopedic article.
Let's see what others say. --Esprqii (talk) 19:16, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Makes complete sense. Thank you. On just a side note. The Internatally acclaimed Radio Talk show host Sallie Felton is a great source that proves all these sources. Look into Sean Salisbury, his brother. Where are the sources that cite his batting average, etc? I found all the sources on google under news with a filter that takes off time restraints. Over 7000 of those, including his batting average and entire college career. What's even more interesting is that Kevin Craft was coached by Brett as a youngster which Craft now plays in the same league as Salisbury did years ago. I guess as we dig further there is a paper trail that leads to notable. Again, Thank you for the advice, I will do my best to research and add. Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.160.209.194 (talk) 20:03, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

  • Delete Per WP:ATHLETE. Only sources about athletic career cited in article are trivial mentions of stats. External links section is out of control and borders on advertising. Sailsbystars (talk) 00:13, 25 September 2010 (UTC) see below
    • Keep The sources are not trivial. They needed to be stated indepth due to Esprqli wanting to see the results. If you look at the external links now, half the sources are about modeling career and transform diet book. The article written states salisbury was excommunicated and his play at oregon was "less than par" I find it hard to believe this is advertising. It infact humiliates Salisbury and how why he wrote the health and wellness book. His division II stats are still untouched in Division II play. OregonDucksFan57 (talk) 00:33, 25 September 2010 (UTC)OregonDucksFan57 — OregonDucksFan57 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Reply Please read WP:Athlete and WP:RS. Per WP:Athlete for college athletes, the minimum standard here is "Gained national media attention as an individual, not just as a player for a notable team." A single 300 word article in a local paper doesn't count. Sailsbystars (talk) 00:47, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Instead of the ambush? why not correct the wikipedia notable person and make it clean? Now that we know who Salisbury is, take the external links and use the sources to clean it up? The wikipedia experts can easily help re write this if needs be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.160.209.194 (talk) 00:43, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Comment None of the sources meet reliable sourcing guidelines that also establish notability. Since the subject is not notable, no need to bother to clean up. Sailsbystars (talk) 00:50, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment I am laughing outloud. How is the person not notable? That is funny. Started as a division I quarterback, is a published author who's book was number 6 last year, and was a top male model with over 50 radio shows last year alone. I suppose his brother Sean is not notable either? LOL 65.160.209.194 (talk) 00:56, 25 September 2010 (UTC)The Hot Spot

Question, How is Kevin Craft any more notable? Seriously? I think you pick and choose your battles. a little help Esprqii? You even now admit that Salisbury is notable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.160.209.194 (talk) 00:59, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

  • Keep and somebody please re-write this thing! I hate to break it to the naysayers, but this subject is obviously notable for the widespread coverage achieved from the book. That said, in my opinion his participation and coverage from being an NCAA athlete would probably be enough to meet the general notability guideline. There is the manner of the style of the article--it's poorly written and is more of an advertisment than anything else. If that is not promptly changed, then we'll need to delete it or blank it or something until it can be re-tooled to be an effective and appropriate article. But the article itself needs to stay--the content just needs re-worked.--Paul McDonald (talk) 03:58, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Questions: How does this article meet wikipedia's college athlete criteria? According to that page the lowest standard for a college athlete is "Gained national media attention as an individual, not just as a player for a notable team" and I'm just not seeing that sort of coverage here. As for the General Notability regarding the book, the only coverage has been on radio shows which are themselves non-notable (which is kinda how I see the definition of a reliable source, the source for notability itself should be notable) and a website that my technical analysis shows to be advertisement, not a reliable 3rd party source (consumerdigestreport.com). I'm not trying to be critical, I'm relatively new to AfD (and wikipedia) and trying to learn. Sailsbystars (talk) 14:54, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Content was reworked. I believe it flows better and now sounds unbiased. 65.160.209.194 (talk) 04:20, 25 September 2010 (UTC)Wife of Oregon Ducks Fan 57 (My husband is now 58 but has trouble seeing) Directed to Salisbystars: 1. Her STARTED 5 games in the pac-10, played a tremendous game against University of Southern California On ESPN. Was being touted after game as a possible heisman candidate. He played against UCLA on ABC nationally televised game that he almost pulled out at end of game. Again, touted highly. He played the last games of the season very mediocore as did Kevin Craft who you still have up on wikipedia? Why? and no problems with his performance? Craft maybe the worse Junior College all american quarterback to start at UCLA. Salisbury was the national passing champion, 1st team all american at 2 different colleges. He was nominated for the Harlon Hill and took runner up. Harlon hill is division II verison of the heisman trophy. Still holds 10 NCAA records including 377 yards per game. Now the book. The book finished last year number 6 on the bestseller list. This is listed in the links as you will see. Again last year, the book FINISHED 6TH ON THE BEST SELLER LIST! Forget consumer digest report, the guy has a published book that was a best seller and is project to go number one this year with the revision. Radio or shows or not, it finished number 6!! you can't deny that. 

Why are you after this guy so bad? The modeling career...He is a top male model in the World. Modelwatch.com listed him as the top 50 models in the 90's. You can see and read that on both radio shows where they pull information from their resources.

He has played in two movies as an actor. He is one of only 6 authors to ever come out with a line of powder, bars etc in the World after writing a book. From football to being an author for health a wellness he is more than notable. By the way, his brother happens to be Sean Salisbury. So what are you talking about Sailsbystars? Seriously? What is your grudge? Let it go. Again do me a favor and answer me this question. Why is Kevin Craft who had no college career hardly at UCLA even on wikipedia? why? answer me that? Salisbury is considered the top 5 nutritonist according to the October issue of ms. Fitness magazine. This also cannot be denied. Come on Sailsbystars...You need a better angle. You are new and it shows. Top model, author and starting college football player who was an all american a palomar college then at wayne state and almost won harlon hill, then played in same league as craft EFAF. This is a no brainer. Why fight it? As for the Consumer Digest report, it's a subsidary of Consumer Digest so your "3rd party friend" is lost. They have been around since the 1950's. The Consumer Digest Report was started in 1971. Do your homework. Go look at all the college players on wikipedia, it's not even an argument. Let it go. Thanks 65.160.209.194 (talk) 19:15, 25 September 2010 (UTC)College Football analyst

And if you go to the discussion page on Kevin Craft read this. He was able to stay on after almost a speedy delete: Here is what was said. Maybe you will learn from this Sailsbystars:

Thank you to Rodhullandemu for speedy decline request. Ucla90024 (talk) 23:11, 13 September 2008 (UTC) SPEEDY DELETE, KEVIN CRAFT IS NOT A NOTABLE PERSON. REMOVE HIM. IN ONLY HIS SECOND GAME AS A STARTING AT UCLA. THE QUARTERBACK HE MUST BE REMOVED —Preceding unsigned comment added by Terminate4949 (talk • contribs) 00:55, 14 September 2008 (UTC) Good or bad, he is the quarterback for a major division I football team. Notable person is not limited to those who have done good in his field. Ucla90024 (talk) 02:13, 16 September 2008 (UTC) Kevin Craft was the UCLA Bruins, a major division I school, starting quarterback who had a bad year. There's no reason to delete the article and rewrite history. Ucla90024 (talk) 18:12, 8 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.160.209.194 (talk)

Please read the guidelines for reliable sources for wikipedia. Most of your sources don't qualify, and the ones that do have the least information about the subject. Consumerdigestreport.com does not count at all. While there may be a real Consumer Digest Report related to Consumer Digest, that website is not it. WHOIS records clearly indicate it does not belong to the same company. The other quarterbacks that you cite have information obtained from reliable sources acknowledging notability. You say he was covered by ESPN? Prove it!. You say he was touted highly? Prove it! You make a lot of claims about the notability of the subject, but don't have the reliable sources to back it up. That is why I stand by my delete vote. Although I will admit the writing of the article has vastly improved, the sources cited fail to establish notability. Sailsbystars (talk) 20:07, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
See for example, the two articles in the national newspaper, the Los Angeles Times, on the Kevin Craft article for examples of the types of reliable sources the article needs. . Find something similar for this article and it can stay. Sailsbystars (talk) 20:25, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Keep but with major re-write from reliable sources. Doing the google news search on Brett Salisbury instead of Brett Jon Salisbury returns numerous news articles from the late 80's early 90s. Example . Subject appears to be notable, just the article creator is in need of guidance. Sailsbystars (talk) 21:06, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, please help our husband and I rewrite this, you obviously know what it takes. The sources we found were solid, but maybe you have more? We appreciate your help and can you help so this can be taken care of? Thank you again. Bill and Jessie Rackcliff. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.160.209.194 (talk) 21:16, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

We re wrote the external links and changed everything we can. Any help would be great as so much effort has been put into this. Please help us! Thank you 65.160.209.194 (talk) 21:39, 25 September 2010 (UTC)OregonDucksFan57

Comment If this article is kept, it should be cut down to what can be verified through reliable sources. There appears to be nothing to substantiate his excommunication, Heisman Trophy vote, all-team Europe career for a minor league NFL franchise, tutoring of Kevin Craft, male model superstar 2002 award, "top 10" status of his diet book on any reliable third party reference, etc. This article as it stands is pure puffery--even the alleged excommunication and imperfection written about his Oregon career appears to be designed as "balance" to the article.
Also of concern is the single purpose account which seems determined to shoehorn Salisbury into Misplaced Pages with the obvious purpose of promoting his book, while stating to be a near-sighted middle-aged couple new to Misplaced Pages. However, this article is almost identical to the one deleted a year ago but which still lives on in Misplaced Pages mirror sites available at an Google search. I also note that the editors chose a different name for the article, using the never-used-anywhere-else middle name to attract less attention.
Nonetheless, I have written numerous articles about college football players that have similar notability, so I do believe Salisbury meets WP:ATHLETE. I have written an alternative to the existing article in my user space that I think would be more acceptable to the community, though, I suspect, not to Mr. Salisbury's promoters:
I would be willing to provide the citations to that alternative and post in the main space. --Esprqii (talk) 17:41, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
We just read the proposed alternative article, sounds very good what you wrote. However he finished playing in 1996 not 1995. Secondly he went back to play with the Prague panthers in 2006 nearly 10 years later but basically was used as a coach. As for the promoters of salisbury? we don't care, we just wanted to write just and fair article to someone we have followed. Anything you propose and install now is again greatly appreciated. Thank you
That is fantastic. We have a friend who is an IT gentleman and who understands wikipedia. Please see changes he made. We believe it looks good and meets wikipedia standards, however your help is greatly appreciated. Thank you.65.160.209.194 (talk) 18:32, 26 September 2010 (UTC)OregonDucksFan57
Finally we did a google search on the name brett salisbury. The second line item is Brett Salisbury Deleted from Misplaced Pages. Can you remove that? We are hoping we can put this article to rest! I know you have spent a lot of time on this as has my husband and I. I am 63 and my husband is 58. We are wore out and have not worked this hard in the last 10 years! HA! Thank you again Mr. Esprqii. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.160.209.194 (talk) 19:01, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Also Mr. Esprqii the information on your new proposed article is that salisbury actual modeled during his playing days. He was not retired just an FYI. We learned this by listening to 4 different radio interviews on the internet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.160.209.194 (talk) 00:13, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Deletei've been trying to find references, anything, to support this article for the better part of an hour. the only sources to be found on the internet about this individual are regarding his college football career; and these do not necessarily imply notability of the subject, only confirm that he played college football. the article itself is full of POV commentary about the subject, hardly any of which is supported by the given references. for instance, the section discussing the subjects modeling career claims he "was given the title, male super model in April 2002 by model-max.com", a quick search reveals no supporting evidence. i am not syaing this claim is a lie, but it definetly isn't supported by the references. ultimately, the gist of this bio appears to be to build up the athletic character of the individual to lend credibility to the diet program. "the transform diet" has zero reliable sources, this was the most reliably independent source i could find, it is a review by a website that only accepts submissions for review from independent publishers. in addition, this article was brought to my attention by the main IP editor of the article (presumably the IP of the original author) when the user contested my removal of spam links from the glen high school article by contacting me on my talk page. cheers WookieInHeat (talk) 02:18, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
after reading other users reason for "keep", i would like to say i am not dead set on delete. if the college football section can be spruced up with some references and the POV content revamped this would help. but the stuff about the diet program needs to go, this is pure promotional content. the given reference doesn't appear to qualify as a WP:RS, i searched google for "the consumer digest report" and looked through the first 500 links, this page was not in them; although this wikipedia article came up #107. a google news search turns up absoloutly nothing on the topic. WookieInHeat (talk) 02:55, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
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