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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by SarekOfVulcan (talk | contribs) at 15:46, 27 June 2012 (SarekOfVulcan: simplify recall procedure). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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February 2012

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Talkback

Hello, Avanu. You have new messages at ClueBot Commons's talk page.
Message added 17:20, 5 June 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

For a section ÐℬigXЯaɣ 17:20, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

June 2012

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to blank out or remove portions of page content, templates or other materials from Misplaced Pages, as you did at General Mills, you may be blocked from editing. The criteria for inclusion on wikipedia is WP:Verifiability. You left an edit summary aying its "trivia". May i ask which wikieidia polciy disallows trivia? Pass a Method talk 15:53, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

First, since I left you a message about this on your talk page, it is poor form to slap a template on my page in response.
Second, the criteria for inclusion is not verifiability, verifiability is merely the baseline threshold for something if you want to include it. In other words, if you can't verify it, don't include it. "merely being true, or even verifiable, does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia"
You mention me using the word 'trivia' above, but leave off the majority of my statement which was "please show relevance to overall article or to what company does". Misplaced Pages:NOT#Misplaced Pages is not an indiscriminate collection of information,Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view and WP:DUE within that. Just because you have a personal interest in the additional information does not make it due or to quote the NPOV policy, "Neutrality requires that each article or other page in the mainspace fairly represents all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint. Giving due weight and avoiding giving undue weight means that articles should not give minority views as much of, or as detailed, a description as more widely held views. Generally, the views of tiny minorities should not be included at all, except perhaps in a 'see also' about those specific views."
I've looked at your contributions and you have a habit of not only adding something into one article, but attempting to insert the same thing into a bunch of articles to try and push an overall viewpoint. As I said in the discussion I left on your Talk page, you need to be trying to avoid biased editing. If you disagree with another editor's good faith changes, take it to the Talk page, but labeling it as vandalism is not the appropriate response. Thanks. -- Avanu (talk) 16:09, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
@Pass a Method: I would also recommend reading the essay entitled WP:Don't template the regulars. ~Adjwilley (talk) 19:58, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

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Sunday will arrive

Hi Avanu. I got impressed for the polemic produced in that debate, and seemed very, very unlikely the deletion of the article. In cases like that is it not obvious that the article should be kept? How is possible one admin taking that final decision? It is clear that a neutral committee should decide that. It seems pretty much a contestable act over there, therefore a clear case to the Deletion review. My main problem is finding time to all this, however I will be there if you or some else do the request. By the way, thanks for your comprehensive vision, you really understood the reality and knew how to deal correctly with the facts and editors. Excalibursword (talk) 14:44, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Sometimes it just goes that way. I don't think the Delete people made a good case, but it won for today. I suppose it could be appealed, but I think it will just be a repeat of the same. -- Avanu (talk) 14:52, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
As said before.
Sometimes the fight is more important than the victory or defeat. Barnstars are interesting, but a more useful tool to you.
Excalibursword (talk) 17:08, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

SarekOfVulcan

You seem to have a problem with SarekofVulcan's use of tools. Have you considered an attempt to recall them? The criteria are at User:SarekOfVulcan/Recall criteria. - Jorgath (talk) 07:04, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Avanu knows that link already, because I pointed it out to him two days ago. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 12:19, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
All right, good. I personally don't think you need to be recalled, although I'm not 100% pleased with your actions, but I wanted to make sure he knew the option existed. - Jorgath (talk) 12:25, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
To be clear, I have no problem with an administrator using the 'tools', as long as they are polite and considerate when they use them. I found Sarek's curt reply the other day when he posted that link to be a little disingenuous considering how unbelievably specific and complex the process is at that link. I am certain that there is a lot that Sarek does which is helpful and constructive toward the encyclopedia, but unfortunately I see rash or abrupt actions from him far too frequently. I know that he knows about this, because its been said to him by various editors time and again, and I hope he sincerely wants to improve. Personally, my ire is raised more than anything else by a person in authority behaving in a less than considerate way when the other person can't do anything to protect themselves. While Sceptre isn't blameless in this recent thing, Sarek should have taken some steps to make sure he communicated things clearly to Sceptre before just resorting to punitive actions. -- Avanu (talk) 13:54, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
Something like a recurring yearly 'continuing education' for Admins would be great if it could be shown that it helps. Dealing with burnout, how to handle conflict, easier methods for complicated stuff, whatever is needed. As for being an admin for perpetuity, I'm conflicted on this. I read Jimmy Wales rationale on this a while back. He said 'why remove a good admin if they've done nothing wrong?' And if an admin is doing well, that rationale seems reasonable. After all, they are just volunteers. However, if the expectation is that an admin will be time-limited, then it seems like they have no expectation of anything else and will just serve out their term and move back into regular joe status without a problem. The other side of the problem is the massively hideous Request for Adminship and the Admin Review processes. Its simply a horrible shoutfest of all the negative things a person might have ever done. Despite my occasional disdain for Sarek, I would hope that the day he retires, we congratulate him and thank him for his service. This is something that every volunteer deserves. So the current candidacy and review is a mess, and these admins serve for life. All in all, I think some form of time-limited service would simply make this all less problematic and a big emphasis on civil treatment during those processes would help.
As I write this, I also realize that I was pretty harsh with Sarek yesterday in my comment (at AN/I). I'll stand by the substance in my critique, but I feel that I was wrong in the way I presented it. My apologies to Sarek for the tone and language. -- Avanu (talk) 15:25, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
Accepted, of course. Had you left it at "He simply amps up the conflict instead of working to resolve problems. Sceptre didn't need to be kicked while down" in the first, I wouldn't have blinked twice.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 15:39, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
And about the "complex procedure", it comes down to "if 6 editors in good standing want me to stand for recall, we run an RFC/U and I abide by what the clerk says the results are." Most of the complexities can be ignored. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 15:46, 27 June 2012 (UTC)