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Talk:Kavango people

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Pgallert (talk | contribs) at 07:31, 27 May 2014 (→PRIMARYTOPIC per view stats: "Kavango languages are spoken by Kavango people" is problematic). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 07:31, 27 May 2014 by Pgallert (talk | contribs) (→PRIMARYTOPIC per view stats: "Kavango languages are spoken by Kavango people" is problematic)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
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disambiguation/incoming links notice

the large number of incoming links here are significant as to what is the primary topic of "Kavango". View stats, incoming links and google states were not done before this disambiguation page was made; that Kavango Region probably outranks Kavango language is a given, as in other similar cases; though the Kavango people are the primary usage of Kavango as the context of the mass of incoming links no doubt demonstrate, as is so often the case; imposing an intermediary disambiguation page upon the reader when a simple hatnote would do is a pattern repeated across hundreds or similar titles..... this page may suit a certain particular editor's preference/agenda about "forced

PRIMARYTOPIC per view stats

An analysis of the incoming links may show contexts re the regions of the rivers, but the standalone link in most cases is, as elsewhere, most likely to do with the people whom the regions and the language group are named for. On that note, people looking up the standalone name Kavango did so 464 times this month so far, and 1477 times in the last 90 days. The former name of the Kavango Region, Okavango, likewise got more views than the language article did, at 200 times this month and 984 times in the last 90 days.Skookum1 (talk) 06:12, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi Skookum1, thanks for your disambiguation edits. You sound like you expect resistance---I'm not sure from whom. Am I getting you right that you want to move Kavango and/or Okavango to their respective (disambiguation) titles, and then redirect the two articles to the article that had most views?
I have no horse in this race. I have no idea whether readers would rather look for the river or for the people or for the language or for the administrative unit. I just would like to ask that the main article neither be Kavango Region nor Okavango Region, as both administrative units no longer exist, and as the chance that a reader might look for a historic administrative unit is IMHO rather slim. --Pgallert (talk) 15:56, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
Ah, I think I see what the issue is. Kwamikagami has reverted one of your edits; I'm afraid that they were right with this one: There is no language called "Kavango". The Kavango – Southwest Bantu languages are a term invented in the 2000s, nobody local calls any language there "Kavango". This does not look like resistance towards appropriate page titles to me---however, I don't how anybody will determine what the main target of people is that enter 'Kavango'. I would say it is after all, all named after the river, but that's just me. --Pgallert (talk) 16:10, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
The proper way to determine Primary Topic is to ask Skookum what the primary topic is. But in this case I think you're right: They're all named after the Kavango River.
Also, a link to the rd Kavango languages is appropriate in this case, per WP:DABREDIR. — kwami (talk) 18:43, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
You both seem to know a lot about DAB policies; I cannot argue with you on that level. But I think the statement Kavango languages are spoken by Kavango people, as present now on the page Kavango, is incorrect:
So all we have is that some Kavango speakers are Kavango people, and some Kavango people are Kavango speakers, with the additional caveat that "Kavango speakers" is a term that's not in common use but highly specific to language classifications by scientists. Cheers, Pgallert (talk) 07:31, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

The typically snide commentary from Kwami notwithstanding, determination of the PRIMARYTOPIC not being something he likes to address per his claim that languages are equally primary topics to people, I agree with the point that the Kavango Region/Okavango Region, being defunct, is not a valid PRIMARYTOPIC; and if you read that guideline carefully, and WP:NCDAB also, two-word already-disambiguated titles are not main dabs for the standalone term, and "Kavango" as a root has one meaning...whether the people's name derives from that of the river (the Okavango, not the Kavango as was first put here, among other redirects) or vice versa is pertinent to deciding that. And as noted by Pgallert, there is no language called "Kavango" despite ongoing re-instatements of "Kavango languages" in place of its target; so really it shouldn't be here at all except as a "See also". Muddling of terms by the method being applied here this way is typical of the games being played to prevent standalone titles being for what they mean; the name of a people. Determining PRIMARYTOPIC is about more than view stats, of course, I haven't had time to run google searches and study incoming links as to the context of those links. "Ask 'Skookum' what the primary topic is" entails having me do all the work that he doesn't want to do, for fear of having to admit he's wrong about languages being "equally primary topics" to the peoples they are named for. (he always gets my name wrong, to the point where he hostile-edited the Skookum article thinking it was my userpage).

NB A large series of TWODABS pages created from redirects-to-primary topic have been placed with {{only-two-dabs}} templates, per TWODABS, were removed by Kwami since I placed them, claiming in his edit comment "per TWODABS", even though it was TWODABS which mandated placing them. In this case, Kavango, he came up with the river and more to "force" the disambiguation page; even though the river is the Okavango. Not the first time valid templates have been removed by Kwami, and not the first time he's claimed a guideline mandates the opposite of what it does.Skookum1 (talk) 01:08, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

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