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Talk:Misogyny

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by ACanadianToker (talk | contribs) at 22:31, 25 November 2014 (→Weasel Words in the lead). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Article is severely lacking NPOV - Should not stay protected

As a researcher in Islamic studies and humanities, I was interested to read the portion on Islam view, and I really got upset, as it only cites one viewpoint of the issue. I know "Many" references that are "totally opposite" to the viewpoint mentioned. How then can we contribute to the article, to make it more balanced and reflecting the diversed facts more, while the article is just: Semi-protected? Hope one of the athrs who made this decision come here and let me know how. Thanks. I will then come and sign in when page is open for edits.

What about criticism?

Misogyny is defined as "hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women" and "entrenched prejudices against women". But how are these definitions distinctable from critislcism of women, their behaviours or their way of thinking?

Furthermore, when Schopenhauer (wrongly) says: "Men are by nature merely indifferent to one another; but women are by nature enemies.", why is this called misogyny and not critisism of female behaviour?

I think this article does not differentiate between "hatred/dislike" and criticism. Also must be said that no Western philosophers told things like beating women or treating them badly. Only the quran does this. --178.197.226.27 (talk) 15:44, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Since this article is blocked to be edited, I suggest these few sentences to be included into the Criticism of the concept section:
Furthermore, the use of the word "misogyny" lacks the differentiation between hating/disliking or only criticising women. From the latter point of view, all statements of Western philosophers could be regarded not as hatred but as criticism of the behaviour and way of thinking of women. There is no known Western philosopher that suggested to beat or treat women physically badly. In opposite of e.g. the writings in the quran where the physical punishment of women is positively valued and firmly suggested. Therefore assuming the motives of Western philosophers as mysogynic, i.e. as hate or dislike of women, can be regarded as misunderstanding and misrepresentation by modern philosophers of the 20th and 21th century.
Thanks for your help. --178.197.226.27 (talk) 16:12, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
Unfortunately, as stated, this comes off as a violation of WP:NOR. Odds are the only way anyone will add that to the article is if you include cited sources to back up the statement. 68.146.52.234 (talk) 15:25, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

In addition to the above, there must also be criticism over perceived misconceptions of what misogyny is. "Hatred of women" is often applied to films, TV shows, porn, etc where women are depicted in a sexual light, when the makers of the productions and those who view it clearly are not expressing "hatred" of any kind, but rather admiration. Now, the term "sexist" may certainly apply, but if someone produces a video meant to arouse that focuses on certain parts of the anatomy, let's say, or produces a piece of erotica or straight porn, that does not fall into misogyny. It certainly doesn't belong in the same category with statements and actions of clear hatred towards women. Obvious a source needs to be found, but certainly Paglia or someone like that must have come out and made comments to these effect. 68.146.52.234 (talk) 15:25, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

I rewrote the section on Schopenhauer, per the comment above. Schopenhauer wasn't simply a critic of female behaviour; he straight-up hated women. If you read his essay "On Women" this is abundantly clear. He was also known for physically abusing women, but I didn't mention that in the article. Kaldari (talk) 06:47, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 July 2014

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

This paragraph needs a citation: "Subscribers to one model claim that some misogyny results from the Madonna–whore complex, which is the inability to see women as anything other than "mothers" or "whores"; people with this complex place each encountered woman into one of these categories. Another variant model is the one alleging that one cause of misogyny is some men thinking in terms of a virgin/whore dichotomy, which results in them considering as "whores" any women who do not adhere to an Abrahamic standard of moral purity."

Link: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07491409.2000.10162569#.U8QlTmdOXcs


Rapidedit72 (talk) 18:53, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for finding the source! —Mr. Granger (talk · contribs) 00:03, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Whoa whoa whoa.

Misogyny is NOT the hatred of women. That's a common misconception. It's the hatred of things that are stereotypically a woman "thing", or the ingrained feeling that women are lesser. A great example is "you throw like a girl," this gives the impression that women do not throw a ball as well as a man- that's misogyny. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amschuett (talk • contribs) 19:37, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Definitions Section

Definitions section provides two sociologist opinions before the Dictionaries. I'd suggest a touch-up on the dictionaries definitions and then promote it above the leading sociologists.

58.106.160.16 (talk) 08:21, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Judaism section

This section is undue. It relies on the beliefs of one relatively unknown author and points to a women in judaism page that makes no specific mention of misogyny. I've deleted it. - A Canadian Toker (talk) 16:52, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

"

Main article: Women in Judaism

In Misogyny: The World's Oldest Prejudice, Jack Holland writes also of evidence of misogyny in the Old Testament story of the fall of man in the Book of Genesis. Holland characterizes the Fall of Man as "a myth that blames woman for the ills and sufferings of mankind".(See also: original sin.) "

Weasel Words in the lead

I have attempted to change a word in the lead several times and it has been reverted. Many should be replaced by several as several provides a more balanced and neutral report of the sources. I do no understand why this is an issue. Many is a loaded word that should be directly quoted if it is in fact accurate. Because it is not directly quoted it is obvious that someone seeks to use 'Many' to push their pov as it is a numerically vague expression.


I would like others' input on this matter.


Misogyny can be found within many mythologies of the ancient world as well as various religions. In addition, manyseveral influential Western philosophers have been described as misogynistic

- A Canadian Toker (talk) 17:16, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

(Personal attack removed) "Many" is a perfectly fine word to use on Misplaced Pages when it is supported by the WP:Reliable sources. WP:WEASEL and Template:Who make that very clear. We should not state "several" when it is a "many" matter. Like Template:Who states, "Use good judgment when deciding whether greater specificity is actually in the best interests of the article. Words like some or most are not banned and can be useful and appropriate. If greater specificity would result in a tedious laundry list of items with no real importance, then Misplaced Pages should remain concise, even if it means being vague. If the reliable sources are not specific—if the reliable sources say only 'Some people...'—then Misplaced Pages must remain vague." (Personal attack removed) Flyer22 (talk) 17:32, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Never mind. I'm not interested in debating any of the above with you. And I am not interested in interacting with you. I will only interact with you when needed. Flyer22 (talk) 17:53, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
@Flyer22: So.... are you okay with using several instead? If the RS say "MANY" then it should be directly attributed. - A Canadian Toker (talk) 21:47, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
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