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Bálint Hóman wrote of two Borises in his Magyar történet (). One Boris was identical with Boris Kalamanos, who died around 1154, fighting against the Cumans, according to Hóman. The other Boris was Ban Boris, whom Géza I made Ban of Bosnia, for which Géza I's brother, Stephen (the former Duke of Bosnia) fled to the Byzantine Empire in 1158. Consequently: (1) Hóman does not identify the two Borises; and (2) he does not write that Boris Kalamanos was made Ban of Bosnia by Géza I. An earlier debate also makes it clear that Nada Klaić does not identify "Ban Boris" with Boris Kalamanos either. For Boris Kalamanos died around 1154, "Ban Boris/Boric" ruled in Bosnia in 1167, all theories identifying them can easily be described as a fringe theory. Borsoka (talk) 10:15, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
Historians like Simeon Bogdanović explicitly say Boris Kalamanos and "Borić" were the same person, so don't delete their claim based on your POV on Hóman. Also, Klaić quotes Hóman as saying "Banus Boris" (not just Boris) when discussing Arpads' right to Bosnia (p.48 in her book), and Kalamanos was the only Arpad named Boris at that time. 217.197.142.229 (talk) 10:49, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
However, Klaić does not say that Ban Boris was a member of the Árpád dynasty. And the exprerssion "борис" cannot be find in the allegedly cited book by Simeon Bogdanović. Borsoka (talk) 11:13, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
Nobody cite primary sources, but you have not verified that either Hóman or Klaić identify Boris Kalamanos with Ban Boris, and you have not been able to prove that the allegedly cited book by Bogdanović identifies the two Borises. Borsoka (talk) 12:02, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
Hóman and Bogdanović are primary sources here, and you are just a Misplaced Pages editor. What does Bogdanović have to do with Klaić?! Klaić identified Hóman's Banus Boris as an Arpad, otherwise she wouldn't have bothered opposing Arpads' right to Bosnia; the only Arpad by name Boris at the time was Boris Kalamanos. 217.197.142.229 (talk) 12:14, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
However, it is not obvious. The claim that Klaić identified Ban Boris as a member of the Árpád dynasty has not been proved for a while. If you cannot cite more than one historians who identify Boris Kalamanos with Ban Boris, how can you prove that this is not a fringe theory, especially if we take into account that ordinary men can rarely rule after their death (Boris Kalamanos died in the early 1150s, Ban Boris still ruled around 1167). Borsoka (talk) 12:38, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
The issue of Borić's identity is so poorly understood and so rarely addressed that 1 reference is a gem. On your dates speculation: historic dates are almost always based on primary sources not allowed on Misplaced Pages, but for the sake of discussion: don't you find it improbable (in light of your own POV) that 2 men for whom at least one historian claimed were the same person, dies in the same year the other man appears? Again: what links Bogdanović to Klaić?! 217.197.142.229 (talk) 13:16, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
No, one reference is not a gem. It is a minority or fringe POV. "My" dates are not speculations: they are based on scholarly works cited in the relevant articles. No, it is not interesting: a man who dies in the early 1150s can hardly be identical with a man who is mentioned for the first time in the late 1150s. I do not know (and have not claimed) any link between Bogdanović and Klaić: the former allegedly identifies Boris Kalamanos with Ban Boris, the latter clearly does not identify the two men. Borsoka (talk) 13:43, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
