This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Slatersteven (talk | contribs) at 12:50, 30 May 2018 (→nPOV Dispute - Lead section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 12:50, 30 May 2018 by Slatersteven (talk | contribs) (→nPOV Dispute - Lead section)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Davao City article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
|
| Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 45 days  |
 | Mang Danny's Ice Cream was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 21 January 2016 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Davao City. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
 | This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
{{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||
adding POV tag
as per WP:DRIVEBYTAG, “There is no requirement in Misplaced Pages policies that editors must "pay their dues" by working on an article before they can add a tag, so long as they explain the rationale for the tag on the talk page.”
REASON for TAGGING: the content of the article is obviously being disputed by multiple users vs user:zzz as per this talk page. see also WP:OWN.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Chinchinhan (talk • contribs) 23:22, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
- "REASON for TAGGING: the content of the article is obviously being disputed" is a circular argument. Your actual reason for the tag: "that lead section is politically motivated written from someone in the UK". Explain. zzz (talk) 23:33, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
- Quite frankly, my actual reason is "im an anti davao “safest city” myth guy but that section in the lead is written biased. how can national media can “falsely” described that and that while reuters & guardians cannot?". I'm a mythbuster myself, and nothing against you or what not, in fact I actually laud you for your contributions as a Misplaced Pages Editor, but when it comes to articles related to Duterte? what happened man? why is there a media bias? False balance doesnt apply here based on my analysis. We are not in a circular argument here as well. I don't care about Duterte. Also, Davao is an "okay" city but anyway let's just set those aside, those are not relevant. Going back, I'm okay with that section in the lead, it's just that you portray Philippine media as an inferior and unreliable source due to "falsely" claiming something that and that while Reuters and Guardians are superior and "INFALLIBLE". I mean i love Reuters and Guardians. They are excellent and reliable sources, but the way you wrote those lines in the lead is different. How is that? My vision is just to have that re-written, not remove that just like what other editors want. Come on man, you're better than that.
- What would you suggest? Just removing the word "falsely" would imply there is some truth to the myth. "Davao has been falsely described" would be more accurate, I will add that now. zzz (talk) 05:14, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
- Well that's fair enough. It's better than just simply "falsely". Anyway, I suggest that the word "imprecisely" instead of "falsely" is more appropriate for that; it would still not imply there is some truth to the myth though; and "in reality" could be changed to "in actuality". That sounds more appropriate. I mean "reality" sounds more of a "fiction/fantasy vs reality" thing in the literature world if that makes sense. Well it's up to you though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.190.67.38 (talk) 05:31, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
- There is no enormous shame that the national media got something wrong. I don't see it as such a big deal, just needs setting straight in the article. I can't see any way to improve on what is there now. zzz (talk) 06:43, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
- I removed "in reality", because one user thought it gave them the right to edit war without having read the article etc. Anyhow, hopefully that also resolves this dispute. zzz (talk) 11:46, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
- Looks fine to me now. However i still suggest to have the pov tag added until disputes from other users are fully resolved. Cheers. User:Chinchinhan
- One more thing, how about changing falsely to fallaciously? that might help resolve the dispute.
- I've added "incorrectly" because "fallaciously" is archaic or non-standard and means the same thing.
- One more thing, how about changing falsely to fallaciously? that might help resolve the dispute.
- Looks fine to me now. However i still suggest to have the pov tag added until disputes from other users are fully resolved. Cheers. User:Chinchinhan
- I removed "in reality", because one user thought it gave them the right to edit war without having read the article etc. Anyhow, hopefully that also resolves this dispute. zzz (talk) 11:46, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
- There is no enormous shame that the national media got something wrong. I don't see it as such a big deal, just needs setting straight in the article. I can't see any way to improve on what is there now. zzz (talk) 06:43, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
- Well that's fair enough. It's better than just simply "falsely". Anyway, I suggest that the word "imprecisely" instead of "falsely" is more appropriate for that; it would still not imply there is some truth to the myth though; and "in reality" could be changed to "in actuality". That sounds more appropriate. I mean "reality" sounds more of a "fiction/fantasy vs reality" thing in the literature world if that makes sense. Well it's up to you though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.190.67.38 (talk) 05:31, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
- What would you suggest? Just removing the word "falsely" would imply there is some truth to the myth. "Davao has been falsely described" would be more accurate, I will add that now. zzz (talk) 05:14, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
- Quite frankly, my actual reason is "im an anti davao “safest city” myth guy but that section in the lead is written biased. how can national media can “falsely” described that and that while reuters & guardians cannot?". I'm a mythbuster myself, and nothing against you or what not, in fact I actually laud you for your contributions as a Misplaced Pages Editor, but when it comes to articles related to Duterte? what happened man? why is there a media bias? False balance doesnt apply here based on my analysis. We are not in a circular argument here as well. I don't care about Duterte. Also, Davao is an "okay" city but anyway let's just set those aside, those are not relevant. Going back, I'm okay with that section in the lead, it's just that you portray Philippine media as an inferior and unreliable source due to "falsely" claiming something that and that while Reuters and Guardians are superior and "INFALLIBLE". I mean i love Reuters and Guardians. They are excellent and reliable sources, but the way you wrote those lines in the lead is different. How is that? My vision is just to have that re-written, not remove that just like what other editors want. Come on man, you're better than that.
Recently added school article and theme song of the city Tayo'y Dabawenyo
 | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
on the section Education below of it the Other tertiary institutions in the city include: pls add a recently added school article of Davao Holy Cross College of Calinan and link the article Davao Doctors' College, Brokenshire College Toril which is "Brokenshire College of Davao" and found possibly etymology source if it's correct you add the ref and if it's for the template too? and Someone should put/upload the theme song of the city, source is here Spaceabon (☎) 11:28, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
Already done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 03:44, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
Created page: List of universities and colleges in Davao City
Since the education section was written like a list as to what Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style/Lists says, I therefore edited the education section by moving the lists of schools to List of universities and colleges in Davao City. My basis was to how Zamboanga City and Bacolod was written in their education section.
You may reply on this thread if you have any concerns to what I've made. You can also check the talk page of List of universities and colleges in Davao City to further discuss this matter.
Thanks and good day! Bumbl_loid (talk) 04:39, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
nPOV Dispute - Lead section
I would like to dispute once again this article, acertain to what was written by user:zzz for some reasons:
1. It might sound contradictory as to what the national media suggests that Davao City was the "Safest City in the World", one link given by user:zzz had pointed out that Davao City was given a Seal of Good Local Governance and the Most Child Friendly City for highly-urbanized city category in 2015; of which the national government is giving such recognition based on the city's performance, especially on it's law and order.
Said seal is given to a city that performed well in terms of Law and Order, Local Ordinance implementations, and Good Governance. This had been properly reviewed based on the data provided by the police reports, Commission on Audit, and the Philippine Statistics Authority. And despite to the "police data" (as what was reported by The Guardian) has shown, Davao police debunked that accusations that the crime rate of their City was high. Local police suggests that of the data they had provided, only 36% were listed as crimes, says to one reporting in CNN Philippines, and that the others are attributed to the non-index crimes.
Non-index crimes are the highest in the Philippines as what was once said here, and thus index crimes are lower in comparison. Thus, data shown by The Guardian do include the non-index crimes, and therefore should not be the basis to how safe a certain place is. (Note: The data that is implying by The Guardian is the same data that once in question by Mar Roxas, a presidential candidate back in 2016).
For further reading about the Seal of Good Local Governance, check this link.
2. As to what WP:CITSTRUCT suggests, this writing should be fall under the history of Davao City, not in the lead section. There is also a section provided under "Law and Order" I suggest it should have been written there.
If we agree to what user:zzz wrote about this article, then neither London should be tagged as "More Dangerous City than of New York" as to what The Telegraph suggests, and thus should be written this on London's lead section. Crimes in London should also be highlighted on the lead section and shall be do the same to other cities....in which I highly contradict, and therefore must be resolved here with Davao City's article. Crime in London is really high though, says The Guardian. But as for London, it had provided a special section under "Policing and crime" where it highlights the criminal statistics of the said city. This haven't written otherwise on the lead section since this had being suggested to how WP:CITSTRUCT is suggesting and thus Davao City should be written as the same.
Also, please see WP:MOSPHIL to further review the lead section. I would suggest that this should have this be removed on the lead section and instead to be written under the History, or in the Law and Order section. For somehow, I had tried this once in order to uniform the article as to what WP: MOSPHIL and WP:CITSTRUCT suggests, but user:zzz disagrees the edit as if that this article is his own, leading to a short edit war between us a few days ago. I hope he is aware about WP:OWN as one had suggested this earlier on the previous nPOV Dispute.
I also noticed that the old nPOV Dispute was removed without a proper disclosure to concerning parties. It was once suggested by user:ChinChinhan that he would use the term "fallaciously" instead of "incorrectly", but neither which has been followed.
Therefore, I would like to give concensus to this dispute to be reviewed by everyone and that the nPOV Dispute shall only be removed once conditions had met. Bumbl_loid (talk) 20:39, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
- To add, I would like to also debunk the statement that the national media here had incorrectly reported Davao City as the safest city. In fact, they even highlighted the real situation in Davao City, tagging as the 4th highest in terms of index crimes. This had been reported by The Philippine Star in 2016, ABS CBN in 2015, Vera Files in 2017 (with data from 2014-2016), and GMA News in 2016.
- To recall, "The Safest City" branding was tagged in Davao back in 2015. And tho unlike what was written by user:zzz, national media did their part to report the real status of the city. To what user:zzz has written, I say this may fall to the writer's point of view, in which violates the neutrality of this article. With the guidelines written at WP:NPOV, opinions should not be regarded as facts. Therefore, to tag national media being bias to their reporting about Davao, but in which was not as to what my examples had given earlier, therefore it is best to have it removed.
- Anyhow, Davao City's tag as the "safest city" was been debunked as well and has been agreed to be removed from the article. On the other hand, the crime rate should better be written at the Law and Order section as it was been provided in the very beginning, and this must not even to summarized at the lead section. Otherwise, other cities with troubling crimes like of London should follow the same format. Bumbl_loid (talk) 02:58, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- The crime rate has been discussed, see above. You should suggest improvements to the London article at Talk:London. I fail to see any relevance. zzz (talk) 09:45, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- What? So you want a negative connotations to all cities in Wikipidia, even if you won't follow the any of Wikipidian standards? Futhermore, Davao Death Squad was given an article. It was even linked here.
- The crime rate has been discussed, see above. You should suggest improvements to the London article at Talk:London. I fail to see any relevance. zzz (talk) 09:45, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- Now I see your real intention to Davao City article. Political issues, stands or opinions isn't welcome here. Bumbl_loid (talk) 13:51, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- And neither is attacking then user, not what they say.Slatersteven (talk) 14:43, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- Now I see your real intention to Davao City article. Political issues, stands or opinions isn't welcome here. Bumbl_loid (talk) 13:51, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- AS to the topic, as far as I can tell the sources say it is one of the safest, not the safest. So do we have any sources that dispute that?Slatersteven (talk) 14:53, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- Slatersteven See the Law and order section of the article. zzz (talk) 14:57, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- Synthesis, we can only say what RS say not what we infer them to say. To illustrate, have you tabulated all of the crime figures for all of the cities in the world?. If so , which 10 cities have lower violent crime rates then Davoa?Slatersteven (talk) 15:09, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- To be clear, are you saying you would remove the word "incorrectly" in "Davao has been incorrectly described as one of the world's safest cities in national media reports"? The word (or "falsely" or whatever) was originally added by another editor, but I thought it was fair. WP:BLUESKY zzz (talk) 15:22, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, unless RS say it is incorrect we cannot.Slatersteven (talk) 15:32, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- You could be right, I have removed it. zzz (talk) 15:35, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- Now it looks as though Misplaced Pages is allowing Numbeo as a WP:RS, unfortunately. zzz (talk) 15:43, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- I have reverted my revert. This has been stable for a while. Maybe someone else will offer an opinion. zzz (talk) 15:45, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- The Guardian ref states "On the back of his claims of having established law and order in Davao, Duterte, 72, was seen as a strong man, a saviour and an antidote to the “narco” state the Philippines had apparently spiralled into. But behind the bluster the statistics don’t lie: Davao still has the highest murder rate in the country and the second highest number of rapes, according to national police data for 2010-15." Statistics don't lie, i.e. the claim is a lie. Not synth, it's there in the source. zzz (talk) 18:12, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- Not really, as the claim is "the world", not "the Philippines". Also murder (and/or rape) is not the only crime looked at for safety. Thus this does not show the claims it is the "X safest city in the world" is false.Slatersteven (talk) 12:50, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
- You could be right, I have removed it. zzz (talk) 15:35, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, unless RS say it is incorrect we cannot.Slatersteven (talk) 15:32, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- To be clear, are you saying you would remove the word "incorrectly" in "Davao has been incorrectly described as one of the world's safest cities in national media reports"? The word (or "falsely" or whatever) was originally added by another editor, but I thought it was fair. WP:BLUESKY zzz (talk) 15:22, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- Synthesis, we can only say what RS say not what we infer them to say. To illustrate, have you tabulated all of the crime figures for all of the cities in the world?. If so , which 10 cities have lower violent crime rates then Davoa?Slatersteven (talk) 15:09, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- Slatersteven See the Law and order section of the article. zzz (talk) 14:57, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
Neutrality
This article does not mention the Davao Death Squad. zzz (talk) 07:59, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
- Which is odd, So why not?Slatersteven (talk) 14:42, 29 May 2018 (UTC)