Talk:Makhanda, South Africa

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Coloured Population

The population of the surrounding areas, including the actual city was 41,799 of which 77.4% were black, 11.8% Coloured, 10% white, and 0.7% Asian.

As a former resident of Grahamstown I can confirm that there are little to no Coloured people living in Grahamstown or the surrounding area - a few are students but they number in the 50's. I see the reference is the text 'Coega development corporation' (over 50 km away) - which links back to the article. How is that in any way correct?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.213.228.113 (talk) 07:04, 30 July 2010 (UTC) "I can confirm that there are little to no Coloured people living in Grahamstown or the surrounding area" THIS IS GROSSLY INCORRECT. There is an area as in all other South African cities and towns, designated by the previous apartheid government, for colored to live in. The numbers are fairly accurate on this Wiki page. Colored people have contributed to the economy of Grahamstown as in the rest of South Africa. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.114.16.26 (talk) 13:29, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Avoiding Bias

This page has recently undergone quite a bit of an upgrade in terms of content. I am slightly concerned however that this may quickly become in effect an advert for Grahamstown rather than a Wiki article. Presently 3 statements concern me:

1) "It is fast becoming one of South Africa's most popular destinations." - Is this worth saying? If so is their evidence to support it

2) "The National Arts Festival is the largest Arts festival in Africa and sees some of the leading talent on the South African and international art scene arriving in Grahamstown for a celebration of culture and artistic expression." - Is there evidence of this (a reference or citation)

3)"It has grown into one of South Africa's most elite tertiary institutions with an excellent reputation for academic endaevour and excellence." - We all know that Rhodes University is the greatest thing since sliced cheese but it does not need to be shouted from the roof tops (the Library stairs and Fishpond will do) particularly not in an article about Grahamstown. It is inevitable that Grahamstown related articles will include references to Rhodes but overdoing it is a not neccessary. Even though it is true its a bit weaselled Paul Hjul 12:42, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Writing (rapidly) as a resident of Grahamstown in reply to points raised above: 1) I know of no evidence to support (1) above. Grahamstown does get a large number of tourists during the time of the National Arts Festival. However, it cannot compare to other tourist destinations in SA. In traditional holiday periods, the town is exceedingly quiet.

2) 'Tis true, 'tis true. I have struggled to find up-to-date and citable refs for this, but the organisers say so themselves http://www.nafest.co.za/about_history.htm. The government say so http://www.info.gov.za/aboutsa/artscult.htm#artsfest. Independant newpapers agree http://www.tonight.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=3268773&fSectionId=422&fSetId=251. Sundry travel websites agree, and say it's second in the world after Edinburgh e.g. http://www.safrica.info/plan_trip/holiday/culture_heritage/music.htm.

3) I tend to agree. Halfsnail 08:52, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Resident of Ght: 1) I'm removing the offending section 2) Putting the references you provided into the article - thanks 3) Changing the offending section - like I said Rhodes doesn't need to be bragged about on Wiki

Some more NPOV stuff that I've removed: "Four years ago, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints also opened a small branch in Grahamstown. It started of with less than 10 members attending church every Sunday and is now quickly growing, with a membership of more than 100 persons." 12:42, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Whacked great Kamvalakhe (talk) 11:04, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

City of Saints

Trivia: The nickname "City of Saints" is incorrectly attributed to the number of religious institutions in the City. In Grahamstowns early days as the headquaters of the British military, a request was received from an outlying outpost for a vice-grip. Grahamstown replied, "Regret no vices in Grahamstown", the outpost then replied, "It must be the City of Saints."

The version that is stated in the article comes straight from a book. I am willing to email a scan of the relevant section to anyone who so desires. I would appreciate to know where the above quote comes from.

Schools

we presently have a list of traditionally "white" schools and have omitted all of the grossly underperforming "black" schools, further no reference to the discrepency has been made in the article. Its a touchy area and so on, but at least some reference is needed.

The list should be expanded. For example, the College of the Transfiguration, the only residential Anglican seminary in southern Africa, is omitted from the list. It serves students from the Republic of South Africa and surrounding countries. It is widely diverse, has men and women students, and although it is an Anglican institution, it welcomes students of other religious denominations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.231.198.85 (talk) 20:36, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Name changes?

Question about this - it says 'recently' - can a date be provided? Thanx chrisboote (talk) 15:35, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Demographics

Can we remove the section about demographics because it includes neighboring towns/cities and would be like showing the demographics for New York, but also including Jersey city and Philidelphia.--Bezuidenhout (talk) 15:31, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Why does the article start with a race count and mention of influx of black people since 1994?? Are these the most important things about Grahamstown? It sounds like it was written by a white person with these concerns. Or like an apartheid advert for the town, except that now we say the people 'identified themselves' as these races. 105.226.212.105 (talk) 21:01, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Intro paragraph

Right now, the introductory paragraph reads thusly:

Grahamstown (Afrikaans: Grahamstad) is a city in the Eastern Cape Province of the Republic of South Africa and is the seat of the Makana municipality. The population of greater Grahamstown, as of 2003, was 124,758. The population of the surrounding areas, including the actual city was 41,799 of which 77.4% were black, 11.8% Coloured, 10% white, and 0.7% Asian. Since 1994, there has been a considerable influx of Black people from the former, and nearby, Ciskei homeland. The city proper has an overwhelming white majority, while the neighboring townships (geographically separate, but politically together) have Black or Coloured majorities.

This leaves me, an uninformed reader, very confused. What is population of the city proper? If the city is "politically together" with the townships, why are we calling it "the actual city" in the first place? How can the surrounding areas "include the actual city"? And anyway, do we want to plunge headfirst into racial demography in the very first paragraph of the article? I think someone more knowledgeable than me might want to rework this. 24.11.127.26 (talk) 20:17, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Make Sense??

Area: 3,333,344 km2 (1,287,011.3 sq mi), thats more than London, Tokyo, New York combines times like 50!! Is this vandalism??! --Bezuidenhout (talk) 06:30, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Chimney

"* Grahamstown has the "tallest toilet in the world" (housed in an abandoned chimney)." This could be added again if a reliable reference was included.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 20:25, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Egazini, Battle of Grahamstown

This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.
Find sources: "Makhanda, South Africa" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR (July 2015) (Learn how and when to remove this message)

This section requires references as it is very one sided

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Name change

I have reverted all of the edit warring and/or incompetent edits about the name change, none of which was supported by any references. AIUI the name change has only been proposed, not actually implemented yet. We need to discuss this and properly update the article in line with the actual proven facts and relevant WP policies and standards. Thanks Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:12, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

For the purposes of Misplaced Pages what the government says about the names of things has no relevance we use the principle of WP:COMMONNAME and see also WP:NAMECHANGES. It will take some time (hopefully forever) for Makhanda this to become the common name for this place. Wayne Jayes (talk) 06:50, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

It's not Makhanda Town

The new name is simply Makhanda, not Makhanda Town. The editor who introduced that also bolded every mention, instead of only the first. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:28, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

POV-pushers for both names have made quite a mess of the article: The beginning now exclusively refers to the town as "Makhanda" while the end exclussively uses "Grahamstown". That makes no sense whatsoever. Following Roger (Dodger67), I will change name usage as follows:

All content referring to the present should use "Makhanda".
All content referring to events before the name change should use the former name "Grahamstown".
The lead should mention the former name in the first sentence, the infobox should mention it as "other name".

For comparison I checked Saint Petersburg; there the history section uses whatever name the city had at a time to refer to it (ie Petrograd for WWI-related events and Leningrad between that name change and the renaming back to Saint Petersburg). For Makhanda, formerly Grahamstown, usage in reliable sources has changed by now, for example Grocott's Mail, Cape Business News. Huon (talk) 02:46, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 3 April 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved per reliable sources presented by MarkH21. If an appeal succeeds it will be easy to move the article back again. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:49, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Grahamstown → Makhanda, Eastern Cape – A previous name change (immediately after the name change) was reverted with reference to WP:NAMECHANGE. Since then, reliable sources use the new name of Makhanda (e.g. News24, Mail & Guardian, Eyewitness News (South Africa), The Times (South Africa), Tufts University, Willamette University, iAfrica). The proposed target already exists as a redirect to the current page and Makhanda is a disambiguation page. — MarkH21 (talk) 06:32, 3 April 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. — Amakuru (talk) 17:31, 11 April 2019 (UTC)--Relisting. B dash (talk) 05:47, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Iffy★Chat -- 12:19, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Oppose - the name change is being contested and appealed (in real life, not only on wikipedia), Misplaced Pages should wait until all the avenues of appeal have been exhausted and the name is finally changed (or not, as the case may be). Wayne Jayes (talk) 18:59, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Can you point out reliable coverage on an appeal? Most of the coverage I can find date to before the official change and refer to the official name change passing despite the petition gaining 300 objections or older pre-change reports on the same petition. — MarkH21 (talk) 21:25, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Would it make sense to wait a couple months to see how the situation emerges? --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 21:30, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
- That would be fine if there was any doubt, but there’s no evidence from any reliable source of any appeal or chance that this name change will be overturned. On top of that, reliable sources have already been using the new name, so a move of this article is warranted. — MarkH21 (talk) 21:59, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Renaming and Misplaced Pages guidelines

WP:OFFICIAL and WP:COMMONNAME would indicate that the page was renamed too quickly, especially since, as the lede sentence points out, it is still commonly known as Grahamstown. Park3r (talk) 02:12, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

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