Talk:Saint Patrick - Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 94.173.127.175 (talk) at 13:10, 4 March 2021 (→Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2021: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 13:10, 4 March 2021 by 94.173.127.175 (talk) (→Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2021: new section)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Saint Patrick article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3Auto-archiving period: 31 days

Saint Patrick was one of the Philosophy and religion good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
March 14, 2006	Peer review	Reviewed
September 15, 2007	Peer review	Reviewed
September 20, 2007	Good article nominee	Listed
January 12, 2009	Good article reassessment	Delisted
Current status: Delisted good article

This article has been mentioned by a media organization:

Harrison, Stephen (16 March 2018). "The Misplaced Pages Page for St. Patrick Is Surprisingly Good: Here's why". Slate. As Adrianne LaFrance noted in the Atlantic, there is no self-evident unifying theory about why certain Misplaced Pages pages are higher quality than others. But with its combination of primary sources, motivated contributors, and shared vision, St. Patrick's entry could be hinting at the magic formula.

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Christianity: Saints / Catholicism / Eastern O. / Anglicanism Top‑importance

	Christianity portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Saints portal This article is supported by WikiProject Saints (assessed as Top-importance).
	Catholic Church portal This article is supported by WikiProject Catholicism (assessed as Top-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Eastern Orthodoxy.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Anglicanism (assessed as Mid-importance).

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Religion Top‑importance

	Religion portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Misplaced Pages's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Ireland Top‑importance

	Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ireland on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject IrelandTemplate:WikiProject IrelandIreland
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Celts Mid‑importance

	Saint Patrick is within the scope of WikiProject Celts, a collaborative effort to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of the ancient Celts and the modern day Celtic nations. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article or you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks or take part in the discussion. Please Join, Create, and Assess.CeltsWikipedia:WikiProject CeltsTemplate:WikiProject CeltsCelts
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Template:Vital article

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 5 times. The weeks in which this happened:

Battle for the Body of Saint Patrick was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 19 November 2017 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Saint Patrick. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Archives

1, 2, 3

This page has archives. Sections older than 31 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 4 sections are present.

St. Patrick's Birthplace, Place of Burial and Shrines

There is absolutely no definitive, provable birthplace or place of burial for Patrick. Surely it makes sense to use the term "possibly" along with suggestions of various, debated places of origin? E.g. "Possibly Roman Britain", "Possibly Roman France". On the subject of major shrines, surely major Irish shrines should be listed? (Croagh Patrick, for example?) Thanks.

Germanus and Catocus

In tracing the mission of Germanus of Auxerre to Britain in 429, I've come across 19thc. scholarship that refers to Cattug/Catocus/Catwg as a member of that mission along with Patrick, with a suggestion that Catocus also turned up in Ireland. I can't find the sources for these assertions, and am wondering if there's any substance to them. Shtove 00:59, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

What 19th century sources are you getting this from? It's very likely that Palladius was an associate of Germanus, as according to Prosper Germanus was sent to Britain by Celestine on the recommendation of a deacon called Palladius, and the same pope then appointed Palladius, presumably the same one, as the first bishop to the Irish. Perhaps your source thought Palladius and Patrick were the same person? --Nicknack009 (talk) 11:44, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Here's one discussing Patrick in Germanus's mission - the lengthy note a at the foot of p.21: https://archive.org/details/councilsecclesia01hadduoft/page/21/mode/1up

It does cover your suggestion of mistaking one for the other. I have somewhere another source that accepts the possible mistake at face value, but can't find it just now - and it's likely that source hasn't considered the possibility.

Any inklings about Cattug/Catocus/Catwg in respect of that mission? Shtove 16:31, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Now I see where you're coming from. There is a tradition, found in Fiacc's Hymn and many of the medieval lives of Patrick, that after he escaped from slavery, he went to the continent and studied with Germanus and others. Victorian scholars tended to regard these medieval Irish texts as historical sources. Most modern scholars don't. The only authentic sources on Patrick are his Confession and Letter, which make no reference to Germanus. The later sources are all unreliable and unverifiable. In particular, the traditions associating him with Germanus, as your link points out, most likely derive from a confusion between Patrick and Palladius.

No idea about Catocus. The only person of that name I'm aware of is St. Cadoc, who is supposed to have lived the following century. --Nicknack009 (talk) 19:15, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Cheers! And I've reached the same conclusion on Catocus. The query arose from the stone carvings at Lady St Mary's in Wareham, which seemed to stir up some aboriginal Wessex sentiment back in the day. Shtove 22:28, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2020

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please change X to Y, because the page seems to lack specific links to other places - especially within Somerset. Glastonbury has a rich link with both Irish pilgrims of the faith and St. Patrick to this day and I think linking it in wiki will only enrich and add further interest to the amazing knowledge that is here thus far. It will also add context to the mention of Glastonbury within the list of "major shrines" section. Thank you.

For reference - X reads:

Edit request to change it to Y:

"Patrick was born in Roman Britain. His birthplace is not known with any certainty; some traditions place it in England—one identifying it as Glannoventa (modern Ravenglass in Cumbria), with one historian claiming it to be Banwell in Somerset ,due it's location (access to the Bristol Channel) and is also close to Glastonbury - a place that has been commonly associated with his final resting place. Claims have also been advanced for locations in both present-day Scotland (Kilpatrick) and Wales."

http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/artgue/guestjelley.htm & https://www.irishcatholic.com/new-light-on-st-patricks-birthplace/ 1 See H. P. R. Finberg. I.E.R. June 1967 "“pilgrims of Irish race, like many others of the faithful, frequented Glastonbury with great devotion, especially in honour of blessed Patrick, who is said to have ended his life happily 'there in the Lord”" Glaaaastonbury88 (talk) 08:12, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 09:44, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Questionable "Abduction Reinterpreted" Section

This section rests on the assertions of one scholar, whose argument on this subject has not been accepted in mainstream scholarship on Late Antiquity or St. Patrick. See the review by Diarmaid MacCulloch. https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v41/n15/diarmaid-macculloch/who-kicked-them-out

I would propose eliminating the section outright, or, at least, adding a clear disclaimer that the opinion is not generally accepted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.58.102.208 (talk) 05:02, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Checking the section itself it should either be made clearer that it only has a single source. One of the links is also now dead, I'm unsure how to show that on the citation itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dubarr18 (talk • contribs) 17:14, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2021

It is requested that an edit be made to the semi-protected article at Saint Patrick. (edit · history · last · links · protection log)

This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".

The edit may be made by any autoconfirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{ESp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

It says that St Patrick was born in Great Britain but this is incorrect as Great Britain did not officially exist until 1707. It would be accurate and proper to state the British Isles which refers to the geographical area rather than to any particular country seeing as the country is contested however he was definitely not born in Great Britain unless he had a time machine!

Great Britain is widely understood to mean England, Wales and Scotland hence the British passport says the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Many today perceive Great Britain as a country.

Whilst it is said Great Britain was used colloquially to refer to the mainland of the British Isles, confusion can still arise when using the term today as it is also a politically loaded term which may be used to assert a particular identity rather than to assert a geographical area, particularly with regards to Unionist and Nationalist debates relating to national identity. For these reasons it would be more prudent to use British Isles. 94.173.127.175 (talk) 13:10, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Categories: