Talk:Firefly (TV series) - Misplaced Pages

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Date	Process	Result
June 17, 2006	Good article nominee	Not listed
July 11, 2006	Good article nominee	Listed
July 26, 2006	Peer review	Reviewed
November 24, 2006	Featured article candidate	Promoted
November 26, 2017	Featured article review	Demoted
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The contents of the List of Firefly episodes page were merged into Firefly (TV series). For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.

Reinserting names of one-episode actors

The names of guest actors, including ones who appeared in only one episode, were removed from the episode list, citing the recently changed WP:TVPLOT saying: "Avoid any information that belongs in other sections, such as actors' names." The names of one-episode actors can be reinserted into the episode list, while the names of those who appeared in more than one episode can be left out for now and be dealt with case-by-case in the future. Shall the names of actors who appeared in only one episode of the whole series be reinserted? --George Ho (talk) 01:40, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

I note that you did not link the original discussion at all here. Please keep discussions to one location. For editors who wish to give their opinion, you will find an already existing discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style/Television § Guest actors' names. Cheers. -- Alex 06:35, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

My apologies. I was in a rush and was ordered to do one of household chores enough to make me forget that discussion. Nevertheless, this is just a local test discussion before trying the central RfC discussion over there. --George Ho (talk) 06:53, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

My response to your inquiry is complicated by the setup of these articles. Here's my TL;DR: yes, many guest performers should be credited in the article about the work in which they appeared, whether parenthetically in the summary of the story or in a separate, duly-sized "guest performers" section. As to these articles specifically, no, I don't currently think guest performers should be listed in the list of episodes at Firefly (TV series)#Episodes. Here's my short, short version: (1) the list of episodes needs its summaries greatly shortened, (2) most guest performers need to be credited in the individual episode articles. I have a number of rules-of-thumb, rationales, and more that don't need to obfuscate this discussion, but I'm happy to clarify and elaborate if desired. — fourthords | =Λ= | 16:52, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

About the individual episode articles of Firefly, fourthords... "Jaynestown" seems to be covered by secondary sources. More from Google Books. We should be cautious about notabilities of individual articles before excluding names of one-time guest actors. --George Ho (talk) 17:37, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

I think there's been a miscommunication here. I don't doubt that the individual episodes of Firefly are sufficiently notable for their own articles. I'm saying two different things here with regards to Firefly articles.

The plot summaries in the list of episodes (LOE) need to be shortened. They're too comprehensive and detailed, a task that should be better left to the episode article itself. For example, in the LOE, "Serenity" should summarized in a similar fashion to this: "Against the backdrop of a job gone bad, the crew of Serenity must contend with soliciting passengers; a trigger-happy, undercover g-man; unusual luggage; and more, all while looking for a buyer for their plunder." That's all an LOE needs: enough to differentiate one episode from another because titles alone are probably not enough for a reader. There's no need to credit a guest-actor because we shouldn't get into that level of minutiae in the list.
Guest performers should absolutely be credited — in the episode's article, and not in the list. Let's look at "Serenity" again. There's already a section titled "Guest cast", however it's wholly unverified. If we had sources discussing the casting, selection, special properties, or particularly unique performance of (let's say) Mark Sheppard as Badger, then we'd write all about it, cite it, and plunk it into a section like that one. If this were the case, then I might or might not include an unlinked parenthetical in the "Plot" section. If, however, we have the "Serenity" article in its current state (i.e. w/o any verified citations about Mr. Sheppard), then I would include a linked parenthetical to the actor's article after the first mention of the character in the prose.

Does this make sense? I hope so. Credit the actors? Yes, certainly. In the episode article's "Plot" prose? If not appropriate elsewhere in the episode's article. In the LOE? Almost definitely not, since the LOE shouldn't get into that level of detail. Again, I'm more than happy to reply again if I didn't explain anything well, or if you have any other sort of input or questions. Best wishes, — fourthords | =Λ= | 18:38, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

I think you've explained enough. Thanks again (I've pressed the "thanks" button). --George Ho (talk) 20:36, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Also, my apologies for giving impression of miscommunication. I do grasp what you were saying about such names excluded from the episode list and leaving them to individual articles. I was trying to say that excluding the names from the list and then putting them into episode articles seems to be... something I don't want to do. However, I ended up discussing episodes instead. Since this thread is about one-time actors, we'll discuss articles of individual Firefly episodes in another thread some other time. --George Ho (talk) 21:07, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Almost forgot: BTW, I started the FA review because the list of episodes was too brief. Now the summaries are (nearly) complete and concise. You can comment there if you wish. George Ho (talk) 00:58, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Is this the kind of show where they make a big deal who is guest starring in the episode? I think it needs that kind of notability, like the official TV listing writeup would emphasize such a guest star, if you're going to put names in the episode summaries. Otherwise it can stay in the individual episodes which have guest cast sections anyway. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 16:54, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Umm... WP:notability applies to article subjects, like the series itself, AngusWOOF. I don't know which "notability" you were referring to; maybe WP:UNDUE or WP:DETAIL or WP:Spoiler? However, omitting some actors' names would force readers to go to episode articles (or, if episode articles are nonexistent, deprive readers from learning whose important/prominent portrayers were). Wouldn't it? Also, very small percentage of Firefly readers would surf to the episode articles. To answer your question, Misplaced Pages is neither a TV listing nor means of promotion nor a directory. Would omitting the names violate WP:NOT? George Ho (talk) 04:23, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

I didn't mean Misplaced Pages notability, although that helps too if they list some guest star that isn't even Misplaced Pages-notable then that's kind of silly. I meant more like the promotional thing, like with SNL and how they title the show after the headlining guest star and musical act. If the television series had advertised that they had a special guest star for the week's episode, it could fit with the flow of the summary. I just don't see that happening with shows like Firefly, but it certainly has happened on The Simpsons and for shows I've filled in summaries for like The 7D and My Name Is Earl. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 16:34, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Articles of individual episodes

Either the article quality of each article needs improvements, or the notability of an episode should be well verified, like Serenity (Firefly episode) or The Train Job. What to do with those articles? George Ho (talk) 22:26, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Spelling of names (Ep, 13 Heart of Gold)

This edit by Canterbury Tail reverted changes I had made to the spelling of the names of characters who occur only in that episode. My sources are the DVD subtitles. Canterbury Tail refers to "all sources" without actually saying which they are. -- UKoch (talk) 14:59, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Canterbury is correct. All sources, including the Art book, scripts, and writing on the episode, spell it that way. My own DVD subtitles also spell it that way. ~Cheers, Ten Ton Parasol 20:40, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Fandom addition

IAW the request atop the "Fandom" section, I present the following for vetting and incorporating.

The multiple-award-winning podcast The Signal was developed by fans as guerrilla marketing to promote Serenity.

References

Walch, Rob; Lafferty, Mur (June 2006). "Podcast Genres". Tricks of the Podcasting Masters. United States: Que Publishing. p. 81. ISBN 0-7897-3574-1.

— Fourthords | =Λ= | 05:18, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

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