Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement

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Boodlesthecat

Boodlesthecat is indefinitely topic banned from all edits about, and all pages related to, any gender-related dispute or controversy and associated people, broadly construed. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 15:30, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Boodlesthecat User who is submitting this request for enforcement Gwennie-nyan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:50, 9 September 2021 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Boodlesthecat (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender_and_sexuality#Remedies (primarily) Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American_politics_2#Remedies (secondarily) Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it Note: All times provided for diffs are in CDT, not UTC 15:47, September 7, 2021 first disruptive talk comment, claims individuals using the term TERF to describe others as "people who barely have a clue what they are talking about and know nothing about feminist history". Then compares situation to Palestine and Zionism. (Note, reasons for previous blocks in how they relate to Israel-Palestine.) 18:02, September 7, 2021 reply to admin TheresNoTime, beginning escalation in harsh, disruptive tone 19:42, September 7, 2021 accuses other editors of pov-pushing due to reverting their contentious edit 19:51, September 7, 2021 again, comparison of those who use "TERF" to "Iranian government propagandists often attack anyone who criticizes them as 'Zionists'" 21:28, September 7, 2021 calls into question reliable sources because based on initial information, they reported on the possibility that the incident was a hoax, which they refer to as an "apparently false narrative". Goes on the mock radical feminist and right-wing group comparisons despite reliable sourcing discussing the two groups in tandem (both online and in-person). Accuses other editors to trying to perpetuate "the hoax angle, by using the TERF slur", trying to setup opposition to Christianity and cisgender women. 00:11, September 8, 2021 harsh slippery-slope response to good-faith question regarding the usage of the term TERF 09:19, September 8, 2021 continued harsh replies from previous diff 09:33, September 8, 2021 continued harsh strawman arguments not conducive to constructive discussion 09:49, September 8, 2021 personal attack against me after unrelated reply to Crossroads who I was thanking for agreeing with my proposal and noting, as he did, how the talk page could use less WP:SOAPBOX/WP:FORUM, accusing me of trying to own the page and rigidly-control editing to suit my own biases 10:15, September 8, 2021 purveying a strawman argument in response to a reply of mine to another user for why I don't really think we should try to utilize/cite specific subsections of a social media platform which the article's RS state contributed to the spread of the incident itself, again calling our RS fabrications and calling a deprecated source more credible than our current ones 11:35, September 9, 2021 calls this AE request itself "gratuitous", claims current wording based on RS pushes false narratives, ignores RS, tries to pin blame to a specific group ("the Antifa camp") while ignoring we have RS specifically discussing that faction's actions, claiming it's probably related to the groups who stormed the Capitol, specifically calls me (Gwennie-nyan) out and casts aspersions (added 02:24, 10 September 2021 (UTC)) 16:28, September 12, 2021 claims this AE is "specious" and a personal attack alleging that I am trying to trick them into edit warring (added 23:14, 12 September 2021 (UTC)) Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any 2008 AE Block Boodles was blocked (at 04:11, December 23, 2008) for 1 year due to "heavily flaming and creating a disruptive, uncivil environment" 16:07, October 13, 2008 they were previously blocked for personal attacks and incivilty User has other blocks due to edit warring, disruptive editing, and hostility If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) 16:53, September 7, 2021 AntiCompositeNumber informed them of WP:GENSEX D/s on user's talk page 13:36, September 7, 2021 At time of first post on Talk:Wi Spa controversy, D/s alerts for both GENSEX and AP2 were clearly visible 17:22, September 7, 2021 admin TheresNoTime commented in-section to make everyone aware of D/s Additional comments by editor filing complaint Boodles appears to be an editor that used to be primarily active in 2008. After review of considerable complaints logged against them on talk pages, ANI, and eventually AE, of which resulted in multiple blocks and restrictions, I felt in the community's best interest to file this report. Since their return to active status, it appears to me, as much as I try to assume good faith, that the prior behavior patterns have not changed. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 03:50, 9 September 2021 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested 22:51, September 8, 2021 (CDT) - Notified. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 03:53, 9 September 2021 (UTC) Discussion concerning Boodlesthecat Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Boodlesthecat Happy to have all my cited edits reviewed in this specious complaint, as well as any review of my actions 13 years ago when I (practically single-handedly, and successfully) battled a cabal of antisemitic editors who had turned multiple articles on Eastern European Jewry into cesspools of Jew hatred. Boodlesthecat 20:17, 9 September 2021 (UTC) PS: Despite poring through my every utterance, where I've never once ever stated or hinted at my gender, Gwennie-nyan managed to misgender me in this jeremiad. Boodlesthecat 15:01, 9 September 2021 (UTC) Above, quite clearly. "19:42, September 7, 2021 accuses other editors of pov-pushing due to reverting her contentious edit. I wonder what led you to the conclusion that I was a her. Boodlesthecat 15:58, 9 September 2021 (UTC) Reply to Isabelle Belato: Seems you and a few others equate "I disagree with you" with WP:SOAPBOXING. Oh well. You say most academics don't consider "TERF" a slur. Therefore, some do. As well, many non-academics consider it a slur. Academics aren't the arbiters of what is or isn't considered offensive by a group of people. My argument that some who it's directed at consider it a slur is reason for not using it as a descriptor. If I had to keep repeating that, it's due to the WP:IDHT attitude you accuse me of. And if TERF is considered a slur against a group of people, by definition, it's entirely valid to compare it to other slurs. I 100% stand by my comment that this entry was "subtly trying to discredit the women who made the complaints." No one asked me for sources. Feel free to ask. reply to WanderingWanda: What exactly is "inflammatory rhetoric" about giving an example of "an apolitical biological woman who simply has an abhorrence to be naked and vulnerable in the presence of penises in spaces which she expects not to be"? How you would phrase her POV? Is she to be treated as a racist for having an aversion to penises while she is naked? Even is she has PTSD from rape? Is she to be considered mentally ill, the way some try to treat trans people? Is the problem saying "biological woman?" What should I call her? Would a different term make her a different person? She's still who she is. Or are we trying to erase her? Boodlesthecat 23:43, 9 September 2021 (UTC) Reply to Isabelle Belato Google TERF SLUR. It's a lively debate in the real world. It wouldn't be a debate if there wasn't opposing camps. It's not for academics, WIKI, you, or I to decide for some women what they consider to be a slur when directed at them. That's ugly patriarchal authoritarianism. Boodlesthecat 04:30, 10 September 2021 (UTC) Reply to Deepfriedokra You write I think the "penises" comment quoted above shows 1) Boodles is emotionally engaged with this issue and therefore 2) has an insurmountable WP:COI in this subject area due to Boodles visceral response. The more visceral the response we have in content matters, (apart from SPAM, I guess) the more circumspect we must be in editing an encyclopedia. This being a visceral response, it is probably uncontrollable, so Boodles should edit in other areas. At this point, I do not think Boodles is capable of doing that without Community support-- a TBAN, or partial block, or both I find this attribution to some supposed emotional state on my part offensive. I have made fact based arguments for every edit I have made, discussed at length on the talk pages, and have engaged with editors who are obstinate in preferring their POV rather than simple facts. My offending "penises" comment, if you read what I wrote in the talk page, was in the context of the use of the term "TERF" as being seen as a slur by some. I gave the example of it being tossed at an apolitical biological woman who simply has an abhorrence to be naked and vulnerable in the presence of penises in spaces which she expects not to be. Are you saying such women don't exist? Or if they exist, we cannot describe them in simple English because the very words used to describe this woman is somehow offensive to some? How would you describe such a woman? Perhaps one who is a rape survivor who is triggered by penises/male genitalia? Similar, ideological/personal biases of other editors insist on blocking simple, factual mention that the LAPD has both considered the suspect to be a male, and cannot confirm their gender identity. So, due to biases of editors, we supposedly cannot say something like "the LAPD has described the suspect as male" even though it is a naked fact, and entirely pertinent to the police claim that the suspect pretends to be trans to commit sex crimes in women's spaces, and likely hints at what the prosecution will be claiming. I've simply countered, through discussion, the reality that we can't change actual salient facts (LAPD is claiming the suspect is male) simply because someone doesn't like that. That's something to take up with the LAPD. Changing facts in WP is not the way to for these "emotionally engaged" editors to deal with their feelings. I would appreciate it if people commenting on this case and recommending some sort of sanctions would deal with the facts, rather than their own "visceral" "emotionally engaged" responses before supporting arbitrary, one side actions. Boodlesthecat 21:49, 13 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by Gwennie-nyan A reply to Johnuniq. Regarding the facts of the incident, as our sources say, the spread both online and developments of ensuing protests of the incident were specifically noted repeatedly as right-wing and trans-exclusive feminist spaces online. The explainer, which you said you felt is gratuitous, was supported by a few other editors in lieu of directly linked trans-exclusive feminists to TERF, which was seen as insulting by Boodles and a couple others, so it was changed. In interests of NPOV, the akas are include specifically to link and explain common synonyms for the ideological group. TERF and gender-critical feminists are the two WP:COMMONNAMEs for the group. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 11:01, 9 September 2021 (UTC) Re Boodlesthecat on misgendering. Where? I default to they/them pronouns. The people in your last AE referred to you as he. However I don't know your gender or pronouns. I did mention "he" in regards to Crossroads, however. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 15:10, 9 September 2021 (UTC) Ah I see that typo. Has been fixed. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 16:36, 9 September 2021 (UTC) I would also submit the uncivil behavior of Boodles at this venue, specifically at 23:31, September 9, 2021 (CDT) in which they assert that a fellow editor is not living in the real world and does not in any way AGF in said editor's comments. Also, in the same keystroke to negate the role of academics in understanding things is expressly contrary to a foundational aspect of the wiki, that is quality, reliable sourcing, as well as a NPOV, which academics often provide as secondary and tertiary sources. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 00:55, 11 September 2021 (UTC) Johnuniq given it has been a few days, I am curious if your current comment is your final word on this matter. Boodles has taken your initial comment as permission to begin modifying the page to suit their wishes over the current page consensus, calling this request "without merit" and claiming I filed it for the purposes of "harassment and intimidation", claiming I've made no responses or modifications in light of your comment. I find the continual aspersions being cast very hurtful. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 21:03, 12 September 2021 (UTC) (Responding to GorillaWarfare's request for feedback regarding proposed sanctions.) I feel that currently the page would be served best by individual user sanctions (per this request) and also page-based sanctions at Wi Spa controversy. Regarding user sanctions, I support the proposed topic ban, broadly construed. Regarding the page sanctions, I think to minimize battleground and edit-warring, 1RR should be implemented and, should that not work, GW's proposed consensus-only modification can be then put in place. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 10:32, 13 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by TheresNoTime Responding solely to acknowledge the mentions above - I am probably involved at this point, so I will make no further comment than to remind everyone that civility is required and expected ~TNT (she/they • talk) 20:34, 9 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by Isabelle Belato Boodlesthecat continuous WP:ASPERSIONS and WP:IDHT attitude have turned the talk page of the article into a WP:BATTLEGROUND. Despite most participants agreeing on suggestions to improve the wording (first by removing TERF, then by adding "a.k.a."), Boodlesthecat continued on their WP:SOAPBOXING. The diffs cover mostly the parts of the conversation where I was involved. After the last diff, I decided to bow out. Despite two users (myself and Firefangledfeathers) agreeing with the removal of TERF while maintaining "trans-excluding feminist", Boodlesthecat decides to keep WP:SOAPBOXING with anecdotes about the usage of TERF. Boodlesthecat complains about false equivalences to TNT, while doing the same themselves: equating TERF to "nigger" and "tranny" and to any number of slurs against non-straight, non-white, non-male folks; Boodlesthecat cites the TERF article to affirm that many consider derogatory, ignoring that the article also says most academics do not believe the word can be classified as a slur, which I pointed to them (as well as explaining terms like this need to be sourced, which is the case), and they ignored for the remainder of the discussion; Boodlesthecat proceeds to question the reliability of the sources and begins casting aspersions on the major contributors (mostly Gweenie-nyan) by saying that this article as also subtly trying to discredit the women who made the complaints and subtly perpetrate the hoax angle, by using the TERF slur, by making a point that the main complainant was "Christian" (wink wink, we know how hateful they can be!), pointing out that they are "cis" (to subtly set up an opposition to transwomen), ignoring the fact that those are all supported by sources (and is no different than pointing any other group of a person in the case of a hate crime or similar cases); At no point do they provide any sources to whatever it is they are trying to argue. Isabelle 21:58, 9 September 2021 (UTC) Boodlesthecat: See WP:FRINGE and Misplaced Pages:Talk dos and don'ts, specifficaly Present evidence. Repeating "many people think this" is not evidence. Isabelle 03:25, 10 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by WanderingWanda Note this inflammatory rhetoric from Boodlesthecat about trans women in the restroom: an apolitical biological woman who simply has an abhorrence to be naked and vulnerable in the presence of penises in spaces which she expects not to be. Slate magazine once wrote that scaremongering about trans people in bathrooms echos racist rhetoric about how Black men supposedly pose a sexual danger for white women in bathrooms. The new Universal Code of Conduct forbids discriminatory language aimed at vilifying, humiliating, inciting hatred against individuals or groups on the basis of who they are. WanderingWanda🐮👑 (talk) 22:06, 9 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by Colin M I just want to respond to GorillaWarfare's comment about the reversions on this article. I think the recent work on the article has fallen in line pretty well with the pattern of WP:BRD, and editors have been good about voluntarily bringing disputes to talk rather than edit warring (though some incivility has sometimes crept into talk discussions, which is unfortunate). I guess there have been a lot of reverts, but each one has generally been concerned with a different piece of content, rather than there being any specific content that's being repeatedly added and removed back and forth. I don't personally see a CRP restriction as being necessary at this time. Colin M (talk) 01:06, 13 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by FormalDude Boodles disruptive behavior is growing and they need to be banned from gender related topics as they clearly cannot maintain a neutral point of view with their editing in those topics. This is evidenced by their numerous WP:BATTLEGROUND-like disputes at Talk:Wi Spa controversy where they refuse to get the point. ––FormalDude talk 04:56, 13 September 2021 (UTC) Result concerning Boodlesthecat This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. Possibly I need to be re-educated but I find it hard to understand the concerns raised in this request. The lead at Wi Spa controversy currently has a completely gratuitous "(a.k.a. gender-critical feminists or TERFs)" and the argument seems to be about whether "TERF" is an insult or an objective term that can be applied without attribution. My recommendation would be to reword the article to focus more on the facts of the incident and keep third-party's opinions regarding the motivation of the participants for the body of the article. Johnuniq (talk) 09:50, 9 September 2021 (UTC) Not going to comment on the "TERF" vs. "gender critical" vs. dispute, since that's a content question that should be left to the article talk page.There is definitely some WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior from Boodlesthecat here, which appears to be worsening over time. I am also somewhat concerned with Boodlesthecat's attitude towards source reliability shown in the 10:15, September 8 diff and edits like . However I'm not sure anything here rises to the level of sanctions, so I would just warn Boodles to try not to let their personal opinions influence their evaluation of sources, encourage them to provide reliable sources for any content arguments they're going to make (specifically avoiding unsourced comments like 11:35, September 9; no one should have to ask you to provide sources on Misplaced Pages as you've suggested above), and ask them to stop with the accusations of dogmatism and bad faith against other editors on the page.Besides the specific conduct complaint here, I am seeing a lot of reverting happening on that page~~—nothing passing 3RR as far as I can see, but certainly getting close.~~ I am inclined to introduce a consensus required discretionary sanction there to try to force discussion over reversion, but would be interested to hear from both the involved parties and any other admins about whether they think that would be beneficial. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 23:40, 12 September 2021 (UTC) I see Boodles was actively editing the article as I wrote that, and I note two instances where they appear to be attempting to insert references to the suspect as male wherever possible: , . Perhaps a gender topic ban would be in order. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 00:15, 13 September 2021 (UTC) I am placing a 24-hour partial block on Boodlesthecat to stem the ongoing edit warring, since they don't seem willing to discuss changes and achieve consensus first before reimplementing contested content. This is just a temporary action while I wait for more admin input here, and should not be taken to be the final outcome of this AE. The pblock applies to the Wi Spa controversy article, but does not prevent them from participating at the talk page. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 16:52, 13 September 2021 (UTC) As I have noted at User talk:Boodlesthecat#Unblock, it concerns me that the battleground conduct appears to be escalating (including bad faith and aspersions against the AE filer, against ColinM, and now against an uninvolved admin who weighed in here), and with no apparent understanding that there are any issues with their own conduct. I'm still thinking that a topic ban might be most appropriate here, though I am concerned that the battleground behavior might just reoccur in whichever topic area they find next. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 22:37, 13 September 2021 (UTC) @GorillaWarfare: Boodles has been here a long time and has thousands of edits. She should be fine in areas that are less upsetting. We can always revisit if needed. But I'd like not to lose a constructive editor if possible. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 01:13, 14 September 2021 (UTC) Right, the last bit is more of a musing—I don't think a broader sanction is justified at this point. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 01:27, 14 September 2021 (UTC) Closing this with an indefinite topic ban from the standard gender topic area ("all edits about, and all pages related to, any gender-related dispute or controversy and associated people", broadly construed), given general agreement among the admins who've weighed in. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 15:30, 14 September 2021 (UTC) I think the "penises" comment quoted above shows 1) Boodles is emotionally engaged with this issue and therefore 2) has an insurmountable WP:COI in this subject area due to Boodles visceral response. The more visceral the response we have in content matters, (apart from SPAM, I guess) the more circumspect we must be in editing an encyclopedia. This being a visceral response, it is probably uncontrollable, so Boodles should edit in other areas. At this point, I do not think Boodles is capable of doing that without Community support-- a TBAN, or partial block, or both. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 17:06, 13 September 2021 (UTC) Yeah. IMHO, a lot of emotional engagement about the subject in question. Again, might need to try editing in other areas. I'll defer to the judgement of other uninvolved admins, but this is how I see it. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 19:17, 13 September 2021 (UTC) For some reason they copied that message to my talk page just now. Just noting that I've advised them to leave any AE-related comments at AE: GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 19:21, 13 September 2021 (UTC) Their behavior in this area is clearly well below the standards an area under discretionary sanctions is held to. They have been on Misplaced Pages long enough to know this is not appropriate so I don't think education is going to change the situation. I suggest that they should avoid this area so that they may focus in area that they are less problematic in. I agree with Deepfriedokra that they will not be able to do this without outside help so I think a topic ban for at least some duration is in order. As to the scope of that ban, I am not entirely sure how broad it would need to be. HighInBC 10:26, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Boodlesthecat is indefinitely topic banned from all edits about, and all pages related to, any gender-related dispute or controversy and associated people, broadly construed. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 15:30, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Boodlesthecat

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Gwennie-nyan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:50, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Boodlesthecat (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender_and_sexuality#Remedies (primarily)
Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American_politics_2#Remedies (secondarily)

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Note: All times provided for diffs are in CDT, not UTC

15:47, September 7, 2021 first disruptive talk comment, claims individuals using the term TERF to describe others as "people who barely have a clue what they are talking about and know nothing about feminist history". Then compares situation to Palestine and Zionism. (Note, reasons for previous blocks in how they relate to Israel-Palestine.)
18:02, September 7, 2021 reply to admin TheresNoTime, beginning escalation in harsh, disruptive tone
19:42, September 7, 2021 accuses other editors of pov-pushing due to reverting their contentious edit
19:51, September 7, 2021 again, comparison of those who use "TERF" to "Iranian government propagandists often attack anyone who criticizes them as 'Zionists'"
21:28, September 7, 2021 calls into question reliable sources because based on initial information, they reported on the possibility that the incident was a hoax, which they refer to as an "apparently false narrative". Goes on the mock radical feminist and right-wing group comparisons despite reliable sourcing discussing the two groups in tandem (both online and in-person). Accuses other editors to trying to perpetuate "the hoax angle, by using the TERF slur", trying to setup opposition to Christianity and cisgender women.
00:11, September 8, 2021 harsh slippery-slope response to good-faith question regarding the usage of the term TERF
09:19, September 8, 2021 continued harsh replies from previous diff
09:33, September 8, 2021 continued harsh strawman arguments not conducive to constructive discussion
09:49, September 8, 2021 personal attack against me after unrelated reply to Crossroads who I was thanking for agreeing with my proposal and noting, as he did, how the talk page could use less WP:SOAPBOX/WP:FORUM, accusing me of trying to own the page and rigidly-control editing to suit my own biases
10:15, September 8, 2021 purveying a strawman argument in response to a reply of mine to another user for why I don't really think we should try to utilize/cite specific subsections of a social media platform which the article's RS state contributed to the spread of the incident itself, again calling our RS fabrications and calling a deprecated source more credible than our current ones
11:35, September 9, 2021 calls this AE request itself "gratuitous", claims current wording based on RS pushes false narratives, ignores RS, tries to pin blame to a specific group ("the Antifa camp") while ignoring we have RS specifically discussing that faction's actions, claiming it's probably related to the groups who stormed the Capitol, specifically calls me (Gwennie-nyan) out and casts aspersions (added 02:24, 10 September 2021 (UTC))
16:28, September 12, 2021 claims this AE is "specious" and a personal attack alleging that I am trying to trick them into edit warring (added 23:14, 12 September 2021 (UTC))

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

2008 AE Block Boodles was blocked (at 04:11, December 23, 2008) for 1 year due to "heavily flaming and creating a disruptive, uncivil environment"
16:07, October 13, 2008 they were previously blocked for personal attacks and incivilty
User has other blocks due to edit warring, disruptive editing, and hostility

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

16:53, September 7, 2021 AntiCompositeNumber informed them of WP:GENSEX D/s on user's talk page
13:36, September 7, 2021 At time of first post on Talk:Wi Spa controversy, D/s alerts for both GENSEX and AP2 were clearly visible
17:22, September 7, 2021 admin TheresNoTime commented in-section to make everyone aware of D/s

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Boodles appears to be an editor that used to be primarily active in 2008. After review of considerable complaints logged against them on talk pages, ANI, and eventually AE, of which resulted in multiple blocks and restrictions, I felt in the community's best interest to file this report. Since their return to active status, it appears to me, as much as I try to assume good faith, that the prior behavior patterns have not changed. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 03:50, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

22:51, September 8, 2021 (CDT) - Notified. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 03:53, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Boodlesthecat

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Boodlesthecat

Happy to have all my cited edits reviewed in this specious complaint, as well as any review of my actions 13 years ago when I (practically single-handedly, and successfully) battled a cabal of antisemitic editors who had turned multiple articles on Eastern European Jewry into cesspools of Jew hatred. Boodlesthecat 20:17, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

PS: Despite poring through my every utterance, where I've never once ever stated or hinted at my gender, Gwennie-nyan managed to misgender me in this jeremiad. Boodlesthecat 15:01, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Above, quite clearly. "19:42, September 7, 2021 accuses other editors of pov-pushing due to reverting her contentious edit. I wonder what led you to the conclusion that I was a her. Boodlesthecat 15:58, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Reply to Isabelle Belato: Seems you and a few others equate "I disagree with you" with WP:SOAPBOXING. Oh well.

You say most academics don't consider "TERF" a slur. Therefore, some do. As well, many non-academics consider it a slur. Academics aren't the arbiters of what is or isn't considered offensive by a group of people. My argument that some who it's directed at consider it a slur is reason for not using it as a descriptor. If I had to keep repeating that, it's due to the WP:IDHT attitude you accuse me of. And if TERF is considered a slur against a group of people, by definition, it's entirely valid to compare it to other slurs.
I 100% stand by my comment that this entry was "subtly trying to discredit the women who made the complaints."
No one asked me for sources. Feel free to ask.

reply to WanderingWanda: What exactly is "inflammatory rhetoric" about giving an example of "an apolitical biological woman who simply has an abhorrence to be naked and vulnerable in the presence of penises in spaces which she expects not to be"? How you would phrase her POV? Is she to be treated as a racist for having an aversion to penises while she is naked? Even is she has PTSD from rape? Is she to be considered mentally ill, the way some try to treat trans people? Is the problem saying "biological woman?" What should I call her? Would a different term make her a different person? She's still who she is. Or are we trying to erase her? Boodlesthecat 23:43, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Reply to Isabelle Belato Google TERF SLUR. It's a lively debate in the real world. It wouldn't be a debate if there wasn't opposing camps. It's not for academics, WIKI, you, or I to decide for some women what they consider to be a slur when directed at them. That's ugly patriarchal authoritarianism. Boodlesthecat 04:30, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Reply to Deepfriedokra You write I think the "penises" comment quoted above shows 1) Boodles is emotionally engaged with this issue and therefore 2) has an insurmountable WP:COI in this subject area due to Boodles visceral response. The more visceral the response we have in content matters, (apart from SPAM, I guess) the more circumspect we must be in editing an encyclopedia. This being a visceral response, it is probably uncontrollable, so Boodles should edit in other areas. At this point, I do not think Boodles is capable of doing that without Community support-- a TBAN, or partial block, or both

I find this attribution to some supposed emotional state on my part offensive. I have made fact based arguments for every edit I have made, discussed at length on the talk pages, and have engaged with editors who are obstinate in preferring their POV rather than simple facts.

My offending "penises" comment, if you read what I wrote in the talk page, was in the context of the use of the term "TERF" as being seen as a slur by some. I gave the example of it being tossed at an apolitical biological woman who simply has an abhorrence to be naked and vulnerable in the presence of penises in spaces which she expects not to be. Are you saying such women don't exist? Or if they exist, we cannot describe them in simple English because the very words used to describe this woman is somehow offensive to some? How would you describe such a woman? Perhaps one who is a rape survivor who is triggered by penises/male genitalia?

Similar, ideological/personal biases of other editors insist on blocking simple, factual mention that the LAPD has both considered the suspect to be a male, and cannot confirm their gender identity. So, due to biases of editors, we supposedly cannot say something like "the LAPD has described the suspect as male" even though it is a naked fact, and entirely pertinent to the police claim that the suspect pretends to be trans to commit sex crimes in women's spaces, and likely hints at what the prosecution will be claiming. I've simply countered, through discussion, the reality that we can't change actual salient facts (LAPD is claiming the suspect is male) simply because someone doesn't like that. That's something to take up with the LAPD. Changing facts in WP is not the way to for these "emotionally engaged" editors to deal with their feelings. I would appreciate it if people commenting on this case and recommending some sort of sanctions would deal with the facts, rather than their own "visceral" "emotionally engaged" responses before supporting arbitrary, one side actions. Boodlesthecat 21:49, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Statement by Gwennie-nyan

A reply to Johnuniq. Regarding the facts of the incident, as our sources say, the spread both online and developments of ensuing protests of the incident were specifically noted repeatedly as right-wing and trans-exclusive feminist spaces online. The explainer, which you said you felt is gratuitous, was supported by a few other editors in lieu of directly linked trans-exclusive feminists to TERF, which was seen as insulting by Boodles and a couple others, so it was changed. In interests of NPOV, the akas are include specifically to link and explain common synonyms for the ideological group. TERF and gender-critical feminists are the two WP:COMMONNAMEs for the group. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 11:01, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Re Boodlesthecat on misgendering. Where? I default to they/them pronouns. The people in your last AE referred to you as he. However I don't know your gender or pronouns. I did mention "he" in regards to Crossroads, however. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 15:10, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Ah I see that typo. Has been fixed. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 16:36, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

I would also submit the uncivil behavior of Boodles at this venue, specifically at 23:31, September 9, 2021 (CDT) in which they assert that a fellow editor is not living in the real world and does not in any way AGF in said editor's comments. Also, in the same keystroke to negate the role of academics in understanding things is expressly contrary to a foundational aspect of the wiki, that is quality, reliable sourcing, as well as a NPOV, which academics often provide as secondary and tertiary sources. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 00:55, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Johnuniq given it has been a few days, I am curious if your current comment is your final word on this matter. Boodles has taken your initial comment as permission to begin modifying the page to suit their wishes over the current page consensus, calling this request "without merit" and claiming I filed it for the purposes of "harassment and intimidation", claiming I've made no responses or modifications in light of your comment. I find the continual aspersions being cast very hurtful. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 21:03, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

(Responding to GorillaWarfare's request for feedback regarding proposed sanctions.) I feel that currently the page would be served best by individual user sanctions (per this request) and also page-based sanctions at Wi Spa controversy. Regarding user sanctions, I support the proposed topic ban, broadly construed. Regarding the page sanctions, I think to minimize battleground and edit-warring, 1RR should be implemented and, should that not work, GW's proposed consensus-only modification can be then put in place. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 10:32, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Statement by TheresNoTime

Responding solely to acknowledge the mentions above - I am probably involved at this point, so I will make no further comment than to remind everyone that civility is required and expected ~TNT (she/they • talk) 20:34, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Statement by Isabelle Belato

Boodlesthecat continuous WP:ASPERSIONS and WP:IDHT attitude have turned the talk page of the article into a WP:BATTLEGROUND. Despite most participants agreeing on suggestions to improve the wording (first by removing TERF, then by adding "a.k.a."), Boodlesthecat continued on their WP:SOAPBOXING. The diffs cover mostly the parts of the conversation where I was involved. After the last diff, I decided to bow out.

Despite two users (myself and Firefangledfeathers) agreeing with the removal of TERF while maintaining "trans-excluding feminist", Boodlesthecat decides to keep WP:SOAPBOXING with anecdotes about the usage of TERF.
Boodlesthecat complains about false equivalences to TNT, while doing the same themselves: equating TERF to "nigger" and "tranny" and to any number of slurs against non-straight, non-white, non-male folks;
Boodlesthecat cites the TERF article to affirm that many consider derogatory, ignoring that the article also says most academics do not believe the word can be classified as a slur, which I pointed to them (as well as explaining terms like this need to be sourced, which is the case), and they ignored for the remainder of the discussion;
Boodlesthecat proceeds to question the reliability of the sources and begins casting aspersions on the major contributors (mostly Gweenie-nyan) by saying that this article as also subtly trying to discredit the women who made the complaints and subtly perpetrate the hoax angle, by using the TERF slur, by making a point that the main complainant was "Christian" (wink wink, we know how hateful they can be!), pointing out that they are "cis" (to subtly set up an opposition to transwomen), ignoring the fact that those are all supported by sources (and is no different than pointing any other group of a person in the case of a hate crime or similar cases);

At no point do they provide any sources to whatever it is they are trying to argue. Isabelle 21:58, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Boodlesthecat: See WP:FRINGE and Misplaced Pages:Talk dos and don'ts, specifficaly Present evidence. Repeating "many people think this" is not evidence. Isabelle 03:25, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Statement by WanderingWanda

Note this inflammatory rhetoric from Boodlesthecat about trans women in the restroom: an apolitical biological woman who simply has an abhorrence to be naked and vulnerable in the presence of penises in spaces which she expects not to be.

Slate magazine once wrote that scaremongering about trans people in bathrooms echos racist rhetoric about how Black men supposedly pose a sexual danger for white women in bathrooms.

The new Universal Code of Conduct forbids discriminatory language aimed at vilifying, humiliating, inciting hatred against individuals or groups on the basis of who they are. WanderingWanda🐮👑 (talk) 22:06, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Statement by Colin M

I just want to respond to GorillaWarfare's comment about the reversions on this article. I think the recent work on the article has fallen in line pretty well with the pattern of WP:BRD, and editors have been good about voluntarily bringing disputes to talk rather than edit warring (though some incivility has sometimes crept into talk discussions, which is unfortunate). I guess there have been a lot of reverts, but each one has generally been concerned with a different piece of content, rather than there being any specific content that's being repeatedly added and removed back and forth. I don't personally see a CRP restriction as being necessary at this time. Colin M (talk) 01:06, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Statement by FormalDude

Boodles disruptive behavior is growing and they need to be banned from gender related topics as they clearly cannot maintain a neutral point of view with their editing in those topics. This is evidenced by their numerous WP:BATTLEGROUND-like disputes at Talk:Wi Spa controversy where they refuse to get the point. ––FormalDude talk 04:56, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Result concerning Boodlesthecat

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Possibly I need to be re-educated but I find it hard to understand the concerns raised in this request. The lead at Wi Spa controversy currently has a completely gratuitous "(a.k.a. gender-critical feminists or TERFs)" and the argument seems to be about whether "TERF" is an insult or an objective term that can be applied without attribution. My recommendation would be to reword the article to focus more on the facts of the incident and keep third-party's opinions regarding the motivation of the participants for the body of the article. Johnuniq (talk) 09:50, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
Not going to comment on the "TERF" vs. "gender critical" vs. dispute, since that's a content question that should be left to the article talk page.There is definitely some WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior from Boodlesthecat here, which appears to be worsening over time. I am also somewhat concerned with Boodlesthecat's attitude towards source reliability shown in the 10:15, September 8 diff and edits like . However I'm not sure anything here rises to the level of sanctions, so I would just warn Boodles to try not to let their personal opinions influence their evaluation of sources, encourage them to provide reliable sources for any content arguments they're going to make (specifically avoiding unsourced comments like 11:35, September 9; no one should have to ask you to provide sources on Misplaced Pages as you've suggested above), and ask them to stop with the accusations of dogmatism and bad faith against other editors on the page.Besides the specific conduct complaint here, I am seeing a lot of reverting happening on that page~~—nothing passing 3RR as far as I can see, but certainly getting close.~~ I am inclined to introduce a consensus required discretionary sanction there to try to force discussion over reversion, but would be interested to hear from both the involved parties and any other admins about whether they think that would be beneficial. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 23:40, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
I see Boodles was actively editing the article as I wrote that, and I note two instances where they appear to be attempting to insert references to the suspect as male wherever possible: , . Perhaps a gender topic ban would be in order. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 00:15, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
I am placing a 24-hour partial block on Boodlesthecat to stem the ongoing edit warring, since they don't seem willing to discuss changes and achieve consensus first before reimplementing contested content. This is just a temporary action while I wait for more admin input here, and should not be taken to be the final outcome of this AE. The pblock applies to the Wi Spa controversy article, but does not prevent them from participating at the talk page. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 16:52, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
As I have noted at User talk:Boodlesthecat#Unblock, it concerns me that the battleground conduct appears to be escalating (including bad faith and aspersions against the AE filer, against ColinM, and now against an uninvolved admin who weighed in here), and with no apparent understanding that there are any issues with their own conduct. I'm still thinking that a topic ban might be most appropriate here, though I am concerned that the battleground behavior might just reoccur in whichever topic area they find next. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 22:37, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
@GorillaWarfare: Boodles has been here a long time and has thousands of edits. She should be fine in areas that are less upsetting. We can always revisit if needed. But I'd like not to lose a constructive editor if possible. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 01:13, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
Right, the last bit is more of a musing—I don't think a broader sanction is justified at this point. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 01:27, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Closing this with an indefinite topic ban from the standard gender topic area ("all edits about, and all pages related to, any gender-related dispute or controversy and associated people", broadly construed), given general agreement among the admins who've weighed in. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 15:30, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
I think the "penises" comment quoted above shows 1) Boodles is emotionally engaged with this issue and therefore 2) has an insurmountable WP:COI in this subject area due to Boodles visceral response. The more visceral the response we have in content matters, (apart from SPAM, I guess) the more circumspect we must be in editing an encyclopedia. This being a visceral response, it is probably uncontrollable, so Boodles should edit in other areas. At this point, I do not think Boodles is capable of doing that without Community support-- a TBAN, or partial block, or both. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 17:06, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Yeah. IMHO, a lot of emotional engagement about the subject in question. Again, might need to try editing in other areas. I'll defer to the judgement of other uninvolved admins, but this is how I see it. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 19:17, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

For some reason they copied that message to my talk page just now. Just noting that I've advised them to leave any AE-related comments at AE: GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 19:21, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Their behavior in this area is clearly well below the standards an area under discretionary sanctions is held to. They have been on Misplaced Pages long enough to know this is not appropriate so I don't think education is going to change the situation. I suggest that they should avoid this area so that they may focus in area that they are less problematic in. I agree with Deepfriedokra that they will not be able to do this without outside help so I think a topic ban for at least some duration is in order. As to the scope of that ban, I am not entirely sure how broad it would need to be. HighInBC 10:26, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

TheGunGuru73

TheGunGuru73 blocked indef as a normal admin action by Tedder. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 09:25, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning TheGunGuru73 User who is submitting this request for enforcement FDW777 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 09:12, 9 September 2021 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested TheGunGuru73 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gun control Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 08:12, 9 September 2021 Adds claim that the National Firearms Act is unconstitutional, this apparently refers to a lower court ruling that was struck down by the Supreme Court 09:00, 9 September 2021 Edit warring to reinstate the prior edit 09:03, 9 September 2021 Edit warring to reinstate the prior edit 08:35, 9 September 2021 Adds selective claim to lead, there are numerous stats cited at AR-15 style rifle#Use in crime and mass shootings regarding their use in mass shooting 08:58, 9 September 2021 Reinstates the edit despite it being a violating of the page restrction at Template:Editnotices/Page/AR-15 style rifle 09:04, 9 September 2021 How about just leave it alone? I know more about gun laws than you do Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any n/as If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) Notified Additional comments by editor filing complaint Editor was given two opportunities at User talk:TheGunGuru73 to self-revert, but refused. Their username is obviously problematic. Note that since their block the editor has continued their disruption at a new article, claiming that the Firearm Owners Protection Act was unconstitutional here then edit warring after that change was reverted. FDW777 (talk) 08:55, 12 September 2021 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Notified Discussion concerning TheGunGuru73 Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by TheGunGuru73 Statement by (username) Statement by (slatertsteven) I agree we should not bite the Newbies, but their edits, their attitude and their user name all scream wp:nothere. So I agree we should wait, I also think they will end up getting sanctioned or leave when they do not get their way.Slatersteven (talk) 10:31, 9 September 2021 (UTC) Result concerning TheGunGuru73 This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. I'm reluctant to sanction a new editor (account created 9 September 2021) but something will have to happen if similar problems continue. @TheGunGuru73: It should not be a surprise that the topic is controversial. At Misplaced Pages, that means disagreements must be calmly discussed on the article talk page with arguments based on reliable sources. If there is any continuation of edit warring or original research you will be sanctioned. That might be a topic ban or possibly just an administrator's indefinite block. Johnuniq (talk) 10:00, 9 September 2021 (UTC) As an aside, the editor in question received a two-day edit-warring block earlier today from PhilKnight. GeneralNotability (talk) 22:06, 9 September 2021 (UTC) I'm rather concerned that TheGunGuru73 came off of a block for edit warring and went immediately back to the same edit warring, and seems to have ignored the advice of other editors in terms of reviewing policy. I'm also rather concerned by this diff in particular (), as it seems TheGunGuru73 seems to think it is acceptable to edit the article based upon one's personal knowledge or views rather than the best available sources. An inability or unwillingness to listen to other editors combined with a rather aggressive attitude may indicate a poor fit either in that particular topic area, or with Misplaced Pages in general, but I hope that can be moderated. I certainly would encourage this editor to comment here at some point to indicate if any of this is getting through (if you're unsure how to do that, leave the comment you'd like to make on my talk page and I'll move it here). Seraphimblade 01:00, 13 September 2021 (UTC) I don't see where anyone educated them about unsourced/poorly sourced edits. I'll see what I can do. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 01:40, 14 September 2021 (UTC) Did what I could. They do look WP:NOTHERE. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 01:52, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

TheGunGuru73 blocked indef as a normal admin action by Tedder. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 09:25, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning TheGunGuru73

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: FDW777 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 09:12, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: TheGunGuru73 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gun control

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

08:12, 9 September 2021 Adds claim that the National Firearms Act is unconstitutional, this apparently refers to a lower court ruling that was struck down by the Supreme Court
09:00, 9 September 2021 Edit warring to reinstate the prior edit
09:03, 9 September 2021 Edit warring to reinstate the prior edit
08:35, 9 September 2021 Adds selective claim to lead, there are numerous stats cited at AR-15 style rifle#Use in crime and mass shootings regarding their use in mass shooting
08:58, 9 September 2021 Reinstates the edit despite it being a violating of the page restrction at Template:Editnotices/Page/AR-15 style rifle
09:04, 9 September 2021 How about just leave it alone? I know more about gun laws than you do

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

n/as

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Notified

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Editor was given two opportunities at User talk:TheGunGuru73 to self-revert, but refused. Their username is obviously problematic.

Note that since their block the editor has continued their disruption at a new article, claiming that the Firearm Owners Protection Act was unconstitutional here then edit warring after that change was reverted. FDW777 (talk) 08:55, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified

Discussion concerning TheGunGuru73

Statement by TheGunGuru73

Statement by (username)

Statement by (slatertsteven)

I agree we should not bite the Newbies, but their edits, their attitude and their user name all scream wp:nothere. So I agree we should wait, I also think they will end up getting sanctioned or leave when they do not get their way.Slatersteven (talk) 10:31, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Result concerning TheGunGuru73

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I'm reluctant to sanction a new editor (account created 9 September 2021) but something will have to happen if similar problems continue. @TheGunGuru73: It should not be a surprise that the topic is controversial. At Misplaced Pages, that means disagreements must be calmly discussed on the article talk page with arguments based on reliable sources. If there is any continuation of edit warring or original research you will be sanctioned. That might be a topic ban or possibly just an administrator's indefinite block. Johnuniq (talk) 10:00, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
As an aside, the editor in question received a two-day edit-warring block earlier today from PhilKnight. GeneralNotability (talk) 22:06, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
I'm rather concerned that TheGunGuru73 came off of a block for edit warring and went immediately back to the same edit warring, and seems to have ignored the advice of other editors in terms of reviewing policy. I'm also rather concerned by this diff in particular (), as it seems TheGunGuru73 seems to think it is acceptable to edit the article based upon one's personal knowledge or views rather than the best available sources. An inability or unwillingness to listen to other editors combined with a rather aggressive attitude may indicate a poor fit either in that particular topic area, or with Misplaced Pages in general, but I hope that can be moderated. I certainly would encourage this editor to comment here at some point to indicate if any of this is getting through (if you're unsure how to do that, leave the comment you'd like to make on my talk page and I'll move it here). Seraphimblade 01:00, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
I don't see where anyone educated them about unsourced/poorly sourced edits. I'll see what I can do. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 01:40, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
Did what I could. They do look WP:NOTHERE. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 01:52, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Iskandar323

Request concerning Iskandar323

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Shrike (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 07:23, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Iskandar323 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

20:31, 14 September 2021 restore of this revert
22:35, 14 September 2021 second revert of the same material
Personal attack

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Date Explanation
Date Explanation

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The user was given a chance to self-revert and he still can but he refuses to do so. The user also violated WP:NPA when he was told that he broken the rules. For me it seems that this editor is uncapable to edit is such area and should take a break to learn our polices. --Shrike (talk) 07:35, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

I agree that the banner was applied after offending edits but now that the user knows that his edits have direct connection to the conflict he can still self rv --Shrike (talk) 08:04, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

To the very least the user should understand that his statement "1RR is a guideline, not a rule" is not correct and 1RR should be adhered --Shrike (talk) 08:24, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@Iskandar323: The reason that it was not tagged it because there was no content regarding the conflict by adding the text about the conflict you have turned the page to be covered by sanctions. It would be a good practice to add such tag yourself and understand that any content regarding the conflict is covered by sanctions --Shrike (talk) 10:50, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@Zero0000: He can add talk page notice to the very least and abide the rules even without the edit notice and that most of the regulars do. I will probably take it to ARCA as apparently you can break the rules even if you perfectly aware of them --Shrike (talk) 13:31, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@Deepfriedokra:,@HighInBC: The user still in his WP:battle mode calling me an "antagonist" The user clearly here to WP:RGW --Shrike (talk) 07:10, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@Deepfriedokra: I don't think I said that the user is "partisan" If yes could you please show me. Maybe you confusing my statement with Iscander --Shrike (talk) 14:50, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Iskandar323

Statement by Iskandar323

I made one revert, and then, within the same 24-hour period, made a second, modified edit following on from a discussion in the talk section of the page, where the consensus was that the content I had added had been given undue weight. Duly noted, the modified edit reduced the weight of the content. This discussion was civil and did not involve the accusing editor in the slightest. The other editors involved in the discussion have not voiced their opposition or made further reverts, though one has made further edits that have not affected the modified content, suggesting that, for that user at least, the content produced as a result of discussion towards consensus was appropriate. I maintain that the accusing editor appears to have a shallow grasp of Misplaced Pages's good faith principles, and I mean this in no way as a form of personal attack, but as a call-to-action for the individual to learn and engage in more civil and less belligerent forms of dialogue on the platform.

It is also worth noting that the accusing editor applied WP:PIA arbitration status to this article only after the discussions and edits in question, making the rather specific nature of his complaint somewhat retroactive in nature, but I personally do not think my good faith actions run afoul of the rules either way. I hope you will agree.

(Moved by HighInBC)Hi Deepfriedokra, consider me notified that 1RR is a rule in this subject area. I admit to being unaware that the restoration of substantially altered content could still be considered a revert, which I had though applied more technically to full reversions using undo functions. I am still not absolutely clear about whether my actions qualify in this instance, but I can see the sense of staying on the safer side of this rule, if only to prevent the waste of future resources (in the form of the valuable time of administrators such as yourself) on enforcement requests. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:03, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

(Moved by HighInBC)Ok, @HighInBC Noted. I apologise for my tone. But on the other point, in my defence, I had no idea that stricter arbitration rules could apply to pages not even tagged as such. I have had no engagement with such mechanisms, so I really had no means of knowing that this was the case. I still had not thought my actions constituted a second revert, but at least in principle, I had thought the standing rules for the page were 3RR, not 1RR, given the absence of any formal notice to the contrary. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:36, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

This is extremely disingenuous WikiLawyering by 11Fox11. I didn't say that the 1RR rule did not apply to me. I said that it was a guideline, as are all rules on Misplaced Pages. I also said that in my interpretation, based on my movement towards consensus, I did not violate 1RR in the first place, or at least not intentionally. Interpretations may differ. On the subject of the Zakaria Zubeidi article, you are neglecting to point out that the reverts I have made only pertain to technicalities about linking and sourcing, not to the core content, and in each instance I have provided substantial commentary to help guide the new user concerned (AVR2012) - advice for which, in at least one instance, they have thanked me publicly. A much more experienced editor PatGallacher, has actually removed the material in its entirety, which has then been reverted repeatedly by the new user AVR2012, but I have not engaged with this minor edit war - I have only made technical edits where inappropriate links or sourcing have been added. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:37, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

One of these two alleged personal attacks is a duplicate of the original. I would note that in both I do not make any direct accusations, just suppositions from my own perspective. I use the word 'seem', not 'is' or 'are'. Saying that something seems a certain way is not the same as asserting it is like that. Therein lies a very crucial difference between the expression of personal opinion and the type of defamation alleged. However, I will certainly take the advice of Deepfriedokra to refrain from even such perceived slights in future given the readily exploitable nature of such statements. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:52, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@11Fox11 I provided two sources, one a UN document and the other a Reuters story, clearly mentioning the bank's name - to suggest that it is in some way difficult to see this suggests either a huge degree of oversight or the wilful peddling of mistruth. Iskandar323 (talk) 12:15, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@Deepfriedokra From reading WP:BRD in a little more depth, I would suggest that the edit that is being suggested by some is a 'second revert' actually falls more obviously into the category of a 'Cycle', given that I conspicuously, and openly acknowledged in my edit comment that I had been overruled in the discussion with respect to the weighting of the new content and reacted accordingly. I would also note that it was the other editors in the page's discussion that deleted the content more or less without discussion - they just left a message and carried out the deletion without waiting for a reply. The only two, genuine reversions I made (over two separate days), were to restore the content that was deleted wholesale in this manner by editors who made little to no effort to improve or refine the content. I also pointed out that the wider article had only one, dead link supporting it, but, tellingly, most of the other editors seemed totally disinterested in adding content or improving the page, right up until Inf-in MD came along and added sources. Iskandar323 (talk) 12:54, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@Deepfriedokra Yes, I understand that I need to adhere to 1RR in this subject area moving forward, and that discussing and reaching agreement before reverting again is the way to avoid the sort of disruption that AE tries to stop. I will be more careful. Iskandar323 (talk) 14:32, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@Deepfriedokra Hi, I responded to GN on their talk page. I'm aware that my pattern of edits was unusual, but it was a one-off - I was just backfilling pertinent information that appeared to have been missed or omitted (possibly amid the heady rush of the early days of the global pandemic). Most good company pages should have criticism sections. If they don't, that in itself is at least cause for suspicion that the page is undeveloped. Few companies are perfect. Perhaps I gave undue weight to the new content: that is a perspective that has clearly been expressed on the talk page in question in this AE, and which I already acknowledged I understood in my edit notes prior to this AE being called. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:54, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@Deepfriedokra Is it not a problem for this AE that @Shrike is so clearly partisan? He is accusing me of WP:RGW, but if speculative opinion is all we are going by, the same suppositions could just as equally be said of them. Is none of this pertinent? Iskandar323 (talk) 07:24, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@Deepfriedokra Words are words, but is anything more WP:BATTLE mindset than gratuitously escalating minor edit disputes, dragging people before AEs and calling for discretionary sanctions over edits on articles without edit notices? Iskandar323 (talk) 16:15, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@Deepfriedokra I hadn't even heard of canvassing before it was mentioned before, and I still need to read up on the rules on this, but I didn't intentionally canvas anyone: I accidentally looped in an editor while trying to reference another's earlier comment in the same discussion, as the context should make clear. I also corrected myself. Did you read the full exchange? Iskandar323 (talk) 18:00, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@Deepfriedokra Isn't this AE supposed to be about my inadvertent breach of 1RR? Iskandar323 (talk) 18:02, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@Johnuniq: What is the difference between accusing someone of WP:RGW and of being partisan? The very notion of WP:RGW is that someone is taking a partisan approach. It is bureaucratic to imply that one is a personal attack and the other is not simply because one is couched in technical language. I am not implying that you are intentionally being bureaucratic, but that the distinction is a bureaucratic one. WP:RGW is just a sub-category of WP:TEND, which defines partisanship. If an AE, outside of the context of normal talk pages and user talk pages, is not the suitable forum for raising the issues of the WP:TEND tendencies of certain users, where is?

@Johnuniq: But thank you for your clarification on the principle of concrete outcomes in criticism sections. Though I would ask if divestment (where actual sums are withdraw) is not, in of itself, a concrete outcome? You are also quite correct that I had not fully absorbed the implications of the alert notice posted on my talk page.

@Johnuniq: In answer to your specific questions about the Bank Mizrahi-Tefahot articles, I am not hugely vested in it and do not particularly care about the outcome, and I will not be trying to re-add a fully fledged 'criticism' section header or 'Involvement in Israeli settlements' section sub-header, because I now better understand the point about weighting relative to the article as a whole. I did not come up with these section headers spontaneously, but merely replicated the format from other similar sections on other articles, trusting that the editors who placed them there knew what they were doing, but where, in hindsight, the relative weighting may have been a little different. It still seems to me that a divestment by a large fund, as reported by Reuters, is a concrete outcome, and my tendency would still be to include a sentence on it, but I am not emotive about it. I merely made an addition that I thought was notable, based on sources that I thought were notable, in a format that I replicated from the work of other editors on other pages. All that I objected to was the wholesale deletion of material, by and large without discussion, by other editors.

@Johnuniq: If you haven't already, please do look at the edits involved in the twinkle episode yourself to decide whether I was undoing good faith edits or not. The title of that talk section is a highly leading one. I believe I was undoing disruptive edits that had re-instated information that was clearly incorrect by the standard definition of the infobox templates - a position another user quickly attested to. However, following the subsequent discussion, I undid the last revision all the same following the criticism and left it to others to edit out the demonstrably incorrect information if they so chose, which they did. Iskandar323 (talk) 03:51, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

@HighInBC: Yes, I now realise the distinction between what I thought a revert is, and what a revert is in the technical definition you have mentioned. I had though that a partial re-edit of some of the same material in a different format and location, arrived at as a result of efforts to move towards consensus as per a discussion, was not a simple 'reversion'. But I now realise that the definition is quite broad and that its interpretation can be quite ironclad, particularly on articles perceived to be IP-related, even if they don't contain an edit notice. I also don't think it was totally unreasonable for me not to have understood absolutely all of this prior to this arbitration referral.

@HighInBC: I'm getting the hang of the 'comment on the content not the editors' mantra as well. I had assumed that personal attacks meant actual insults, defamation or slander, but not the questioning of motives or truthfulness, but clearly, here too the Misplaced Pages definition is either very broad or very open to interpretation. I'll admit to getting a little emotive on the subject of my own persecution. But is it also not a problem for editors to demonstrably falsify formal statements in an arbitration forum?

NB: Let me once more state plainly that, while I was not aware of and certainly did not fully comprehend the 1RR rules with respect to this conflict area prior to this AE being called, I do now understand the 1RR rules quite clearly, as well as the general principle behind the 1RR and its general merit as a means of de-escalation in all circumstances, as well as the benefits of pursing a more thoughtful, civil and WP:BRD-informed editing approach. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:14, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Statement by 11Fox11

The edit notice is a technicality, and Iskandar323's conduct is sanctionable without the 1RR. They are edit warring in the face of talk page consensus against them and engaging in personal attacks and commentary.

On Zakaria Zubeidi they reverted three times: (and some reverts of IPs).

On Bank Mizrahi-Tefahot they also reverted multiple times: , when consensus was against them at Talk:Bank Mizrahi-Tefahot#Hugely undue addition.

To this one must add the personal attacks: and against Shrike when notified of 1RR. They also think the 1RR rule doesn't apply to them. 11Fox11 (talk) 08:38, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@Deepfriedokra: the page was about an Israeli bank that is unrelated to the conflict. Then Iskandar323 came along with the seemingly innocuous edit summary "new section" and turned a third of the article into Arab-Israeli conflict material (reverted as undue by User:Number 57). Citing three sources (, , ) that do not even mention the Mizrahi-Tefahot Bank by name, which is WP:SYNTHESIS. It is disingenuous for Iskandar323 to complain about lacking edit notices on the conflict on the page when they turned the page into a conflict article all by their lonesome. Israeli banks are generally unrelated to the conflict, but if an editor hijacks an unrelated article into a conflict article, they shouldn't then complain that no one foresaw their own actions in advance. 11Fox11 (talk) 11:21, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@HighInBC, Deepfriedokra, and Johnuniq: now Iskandar323 is engaging in blatant canvassing, pinging Nishidani who never edited the article or its talk. 11Fox11 (talk) 17:17, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Never edited until after being pinged. Ping at 16:40, Nishidani edits at 17:29. 11Fox11 (talk) 17:33, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Statement by Selfstudier

Usually we give newer editors the benefit of the doubt, I think an informal warning is sufficient in this case.Selfstudier (talk) 09:24, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Pinging one editor, apparently in error, is not "blatant canvassing". I believe that following the latest post, the editor now "gets it" re 1R and Arbpia. I am not overly fond of the semi automated crit thing but I doubt the editor would repeat that either.Selfstudier (talk) 17:54, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

From 2014 until the recent editing of 2021, the user was mainly inactive and so I consider him "new" to the IP area in that sense as well as by edit count.Selfstudier (talk) 18:19, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Statement by Zero0000

To editor Shrike: According to WP:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles, an editnotice is required for the General Sanctions to be enforced but Iskandar323 does not have the technical ability to add one. Zero 13:26, 15 September 2021 (UTC) @Shrike: Of course he should obey the rules, but nobody is obliged to add ARBPIA notices. I don't see what you want to take to ARCA as the rule about editnotices has been discussed by ArbCom before and they are unlikely to change it. Zero 13:50, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Statement by GeneralNotability

I'm very tangentially involved here, but wanted to add an observation (not specifically related to the AE violation in question). On 12 September, Iskandar bulk-added a "criticism" section to 30ish company articles (see here, look for the edit summary "Added section"). The bulk of these were added within the span of about half an hour. They were later mass-reverted as "Undue weight" by Mike Rothman2, whom I temp-blocked for undiscussed mass reversion and obvious attempts at permissions gaming. My concern is this: mass addition of "criticism" sections in this manner smacks of WP:RGW/POV-pushing, and I am concerned about whether Iskandar can neutrally in the topic area. GeneralNotability (talk) 14:03, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Deepfriedokra, I'm in a weird position as kind-of-involved-but-not-really, but since I'm commenting in the "other people" section and not the "uninvolved admin" section I think it's best if I'm not consulted on sanctions. GeneralNotability (talk) 17:51, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Statement by Inf-in MD

I'd like to draw your attention to recent comments by Iskandar323, where he describes this request against him as a "technicality", and despite the clear language used by Johnuniq below which says the criticism section is undue for the bank's article, that it is due and that there no "hard and fast rule" against it.. Maybe a warning is not enough. Inf-in MD (talk) 15:46, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Deepfriedokra I think a ban is taking it a bit too far. My comment above notwithstanding, I find Iskandar323 to be one of the more reasonable editors with whom I disagree on most things. A formally logged warning coupled with his acknowledgment that he understands what he did and will not do it again should suffice. Inf-in MD (talk) 18:34, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Statement by Nableezy

Whether or not something is UNDUE is a matter for the talk page and the NPOV noticeboard, not AE. A user is free to engage wider input on a content dispute, what is needed here is the user acknowledging and agreeing to abide by our edit warring policies. This group of editors that all happen to be on one side of an editing dispute (mustnt call them partisans of course) agitating for a content ruling on a conduct board is a bit troubling, as is their insistence that said content dispute be used to remove an opposing editor. nableezy - 15:59, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Iskandar323

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Just noting that the page in question does not seem to have an editnotice describing the 1RR restriction, though it is described on the talk page. I know this is a requirement for discretionary sanctions. This seems to be an arbitration remedy rather than a DS. I am not sure if it follows the same requirements. No comment on the merits of the case at this point. HighInBC 07:57, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

It was not my intention to suggest a technicality should excuse this instance. I feel it is important to know that not only is an arbcom 1RR restriction a rule(not a guideline), but it is one of the most strictly enforced rules we have. It has very objective criteria that seem to have been violated. Ignore all rules is a great policy, but I would not suggest you try it with an arbcom ruling. I recommend a logged warning about 1RR without further action.

Regarding the uncivil comments, I find it ironic that they are assuming bad faith about someone assuming bad faith, though I don't think it rises to the level of action. I do think they should be cautioned to keep discussion on the topic of the content and try not to comment on the editors. HighInBC 10:30, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

I have created an edit notice for the page so that everyone will see when they edit: Template:Editnotices/Page/Zakaria Zubeidi. HighInBC 11:27, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Given their recent comment about the second revert being part of the BRD cycle and thus not a revert I really feel the warning should be a logged one. To be clear, A "revert" means any edit that reverses the actions of other editors, in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material. This includes engaging in the BRD cycle, this includes copyediting and minor changes, it includes anything that meets that definition. Please understand that an arbcom ruling overrides any essays or guidelines you may encounter and is enforced very strictly. A logged warning with clear wording will remove the excuse of such misunderstandings in the future. HighInBC 22:28, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@Deepfriedokra: Regarding that comment, I will echo my earlier caution to keep discussion on the topic of the content and try not to comment on the editors. Perhaps my proposed logged warning can include something to that effect. HighInBC 09:39, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

I think that if Iskandar323 agrees to follow the (sometimes arcane) rules going forward, no sanction will be needed. I don't think that the "personal attack" rises to a sanctionable level. Iskandar323, please comment on content, not perceived belligerence. Now you know 1RR is a rule to be followed in this subject area. Am willing to be persuaded otherwise as to need for more than a reminder. Awaiting further opinions from those more AE experienced than I. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 08:38, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
Ah, 1Fox11's comment posted just before I posted. Iskandar323, you really need to discuss, without making personal remarks, content. This moves us closer to the need for sanctions. AGF is not an impenetrable shield for edits that are disruptive. Sometimes AGF protestations are a red herring. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 08:44, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@HighInBC: Dear Lord, I've gone cross-eyed. Must be excess iron. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 10:56, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@Iskandar323: I'm afraid you are mistaken. Some Misplaced Pages rules, like Misplaced Pages:Edit warring ,are policies. And as my colleague notes above, 1RR is an ArbCom ruling. No, I too would have been surprised at being hauled in to AE when a page did not indicate that 1RR applied. That is one reason I hope we can get by without sanctions. WP:BRD is a tool to use to avoid edit warring. What my colleague has already said I agree with. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 11:08, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

exploitable nature ? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 11:12, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@Iskandar323: What I need to see is an understanding from you that you will adhere to 1RR in this subject area moving forward. Also, once, reverted, discussing and reaching agreement before reverting again is the way to avoid the sort of disruption that AE tries to stop. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:00, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@Iskandar323: Please address GN's concern about POV pushing and the undue weight of adding criticisms sections. I think it the type of edit to be avoided moving forward. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 06:09, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

"I'm not sure that the implication implied in "to suggest that it is in some way difficult to see this suggests either a huge degree of oversight or the wilful peddling of mistruth" above doesn't cross the line into NPA. Imprecations like that only lead to trouble. @HighInBC: you've been AEing longer than I so, am I of-base or spot-on? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 06:22, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@Johnuniq, HighinBC, and GeneralNotability: The comments like calling other users "antagonists" and the exploitable nature comment give the impression of a battle ground mind set. Will cautions be enough? (This thread is stressful) FWIW, I don't like "criticism" sections. They tend to become tabloidesque. As Johnuniq writes, write about the impact, not the criticism @Shrike: I think your assertions of ~~"partisan" and~~ RGW without dif's are a problem. Please let us draw our own conclusions. If something new arises, feel free to draw it to our attention with dif's. Maybe paraphrase what is said in the dif w/o descriptors that might inflame emotions. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:11, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@Johnuniq, HighinBC, and GeneralNotability: THIS plus canvassing noted by 11Fox11 in addition to the other concerns raised here lead me to believe a TBAN in this area would be a good idea. Would appreciate your thoughts. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 17:45, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Here since 2014 with 1672 edits is "newish"? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:01, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks @Seraphimblade: and @Hut 8.5: A warning should suffice. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:50, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
@Johnuniq: I logged warning I should thing. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 05:24, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

@Iskandar323: It's time for a frank exchange of views. Given the opinions that have been expressed and which I am about to express, what is your current understanding with regard to Bank Mizrahi-Tefahot (will you be proposing including "Involvement in Israeli settlements" text?), and what will happen if there are objections to your edits in this topic in the future? Re the article, if the UN publishes something, that might warrant a mention on an article about the UN. Only if a concrete outcome occurred for the bank (e.g. stock value or equivalent plunged for a prolonged period) would it be WP:DUE to mention the bank's inclusion on a list. In general, don't add "criticism" sections to articles (see WP:CRIT)—if something significant occurred for the bank (a concrete outcome), consider writing a section on that. Further, it is totally unacceptable to baldly describe other editors as "clearly partisan" (diff). The OP mentions diff as a personal attack and technically "You seem belligerent" is a move in that direction and is very inappropriate, not to mention pointless—does Iskandar323 imagine that this rejoinder will help in any way?Iskandar323 was alerted about discretionary sanction two weeks ago and we could assume they haven't yet absorbed the implications. Depending on how things work out in the next 24 hours, I could conclude that an informal warning for Iskandar323 is sufficient, or perhaps it's not. Johnuniq (talk) 07:56, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
Yes, this was a 1RR violation, and it's quite disruptive to keep reinstating challenged material while a talk page discussion isn't going your way. However Iskandar323 is fairly new and was understandably not familiar with the sanctions, the article was missing the required notices, and Iskandar323 has committed to abide by 1RR going forward, so I don't think a sanction is a good idea. A warning would be plenty. Hut 8.5 17:49, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
I agree with Hut 8.5 that a warning is appropriate here. Of course if this should happen again, further action will be needed, but hopefully a warning and clarification of the expectations in this area will suffice to keep that from becoming necessary. Seraphimblade 18:00, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
A warning seems like a decent path forward here. --Guerillero 03:11, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
- Are we talking about an informal "close with a note of warning" or a logged warning? I'll support either to get this closed but User talk:Iskandar323#Reverting good faith edits with twinkle makes me favor a logged warning. Johnuniq (talk) 03:31, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
This was a disruptive breach of 1RR, however as Iskandar323 understandably didn't understand 1RR, I agree that a logged warning is appropriate in this case. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 05:45, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Xoltron

Indefed as an admin action --Guerillero 03:09, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Xoltron User who is submitting this request for enforcement TrangaBellam (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:08, 16 September 2021 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Xoltron (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced WP:ARBIPA Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 16 September 2021 WP:1AM 16 September 2021 WP:IDHT Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above. Additional comments by editor filing complaint Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Here Discussion concerning Xoltron Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Xoltron I am not sure what the purpose of this on-going attack, mostly on my talk page, against me is. All I did was start a discussion on a talk page in the Indo-Aryan Languages article: A long mislabeled article for a language group known correctly in Linguistics studies around the globe as Indic, as also mentioned in the same article. The next thing I know, several Indian editors start attacking me on my talk page instead of continuing the discussion on the article's discussion page and then this Arbitration request, for what? I do make a point to respond to editors that make personal attacks and threats (like Deepfriedokra , and numerous others) meant to intimate. Is that what this is about or ?Xoltron (talk) 22:33, 18 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by TrangaBellam Deepfriedokra, see this. As you said, their combative nature spills out of ARBIPA. TrangaBellam (talk) 16:41, 16 September 2021 (UTC) Deepfriedokra, they (Xoltron) self-reverted a duplication. HistoryOfIran would remove the message and warn them (Xoltron) to not write on his talk page again. August 20 was less than a month ago. TrangaBellam (talk) 18:00, 16 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning Xoltron This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. Researching. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:22, 16 September 2021 (UTC) Reveiw of Xoltron Account attached 2018-10-04T14:52:13; 264 edits. User has been sporatic. Went active in September 2021. Prior warnings for conflict in August 2019. EdJohnson's explanation about DS alert. Feels bullied and here. wow!. Preliminary assessment User is WP:NOTHERE to build an encyclopedia. They are instead attempting to peddle some form of revisionism. User is not compatible with a collaborative project. Just too much lack of WP:AGF and too combative Preliminary proposed remedy Not sure Talk:Indo-Aryan languages falls within IPA, except for user making it so. I'd go with some sort of topic ban, but there's a lot of spill over. And the previous problems back in 2019. I don't think it would work. It's either fashion a topic ban or a block. No prior blocks, though. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 15:00, 16 September 2021 (UTC) @TrangaBellam: To HistoryofIran they said this? The mind reels. More inclined than ever to indef as regular admin action. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 17:51, 16 September 2021 (UTC) Oh, August 20 of this year and self reverted. Thanks, but that's old. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 17:52, 16 September 2021 (UTC) @EdJohnston: Indeed. They edit in spurts, and have not edited since this discussion began. On the one hand, I'd like to give them an opportunity to respond. On the other, I don't I want to read the response. I like the way they lecture other users on "the way we do things". Or is that just a form of intimidation? Be happy to block w/o a response. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 07:28, 17 September 2021 (UTC) Indefinite block as regular admin action.. User has been far from WP:CIVIL throughout their Wikicareer. They have made personal attacks and cast aspersions, and offered threats, while treating Misplaced Pages as a battleground. They attack other users who try to communicate with them, and see attempts to help them edit constructively as harassment and intimidation. I was waiting to give them a chance to address their behavior as my initial impression was unfavorable. Their responses in this AE thread, on my talk page, and on their talk page do not inspire me with the hope that their incivility will cease. A topic ban has been proposed, but their edits actually fall outside WP:ARBIPA. And nothing in their interactions suggest they would adhere to a topic ban. A time limited block has been suggested, but their editing is sporadic with inactivity periods up to six months long. When they return, they resume where they left off. They might not even notice a time limited block, and they could simply out wait it and resume their unacceptable behavior after it ends. Because we have a history of incivilty and battlegrounding going back for years, I believe an indefinite block is the best alternative. Indefinite is not infinite. They could be unblocked the day after they are blocked if they addressed their behavior. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 01:18, 19 September 2021 (UTC) When a user like Xoltron is so aggressive right out of the gate an indefinite block has to be an option to consider. I think they must be oblivious to the trouble they are causing. They appear to see long time contributors as a set of horrible POV-pushers that they need to combat. From what they said on Kautilya3's page: "I am sorry that you are apparently angry and upset, but engaging in outright fraudulent accusations is not how we do things on Wikipdia. Please Consider this a warning and refrain from engaging in further bullying activities" I don't see how this situation turns around without some kind of a block. A time-limited block would suggest we are optimistic for a change of heart in the future. EdJohnston (talk) 04:25, 17 September 2021 (UTC) I am struck by how many times in a short editing history Xoltron has accused people they disagree with of harassment, bullying or similar behaviours . Some of their editing has also been rather tenacious, e.g. here they assert that academics "have always designated this class of languages and ethnicities as Indic, not Indo-Aryan", only to be shown a long list of sources of academics using "Indo-Aryan". I'm not sure how much of this relates to ARBIPA, as most of their editing history concerns Iran, but this kind of behaviour is likely to lead to an indef block sooner or later. Hut 8.5 11:44, 18 September 2021 (UTC) I will echo what Hut says, this user very quickly jumps to accusing people of harassment. Just now in their statement they repeated this behavior towards Deepfriedokra in response to a simple question regarding their purpose on the project. I feel that while connected to the topic, this behavior goes beyond the topic. I am not sure a topic ban will resolve the issue. I am leaning towards ~~something between a DS block for 1 month for combative behavior at the least, and~~ a regular admin action WP:NOTHERE indef block ~~at the most~~. HighInBC 00:27, 19 September 2021 (UTC) Given this rubbish I am going to lean heavily towards the indefinite block for battleground behavior and not being here to write an encyclopedia. HighInBC 00:35, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Indefed as an admin action --Guerillero 03:09, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Xoltron

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: TrangaBellam (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:08, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Xoltron (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBIPA

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Here

Discussion concerning Xoltron

Statement by Xoltron

I am not sure what the purpose of this on-going attack, mostly on my talk page, against me is. All I did was start a discussion on a talk page in the Indo-Aryan Languages article: A long mislabeled article for a language group known correctly in Linguistics studies around the globe as Indic, as also mentioned in the same article. The next thing I know, several Indian editors start attacking me on my talk page instead of continuing the discussion on the article's discussion page and then this Arbitration request, for what? I do make a point to respond to editors that make personal attacks and threats (like Deepfriedokra , and numerous others) meant to intimate. Is that what this is about or ?Xoltron (talk) 22:33, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Statement by TrangaBellam

Deepfriedokra, see this. As you said, their combative nature spills out of ARBIPA. TrangaBellam (talk) 16:41, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Deepfriedokra, they (Xoltron) self-reverted a duplication. HistoryOfIran would remove the message and warn them (Xoltron) to not write on his talk page again. August 20 was less than a month ago. TrangaBellam (talk) 18:00, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Xoltron

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Researching. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:22, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Reveiw of Xoltron Account attached 2018-10-04T14:52:13; 264 edits. User has been sporatic. Went active in September 2021. Prior warnings for conflict in August 2019. EdJohnson's explanation about DS alert. Feels bullied and here. wow!.

Preliminary assessment User is WP:NOTHERE to build an encyclopedia. They are instead attempting to peddle some form of revisionism. User is not compatible with a collaborative project. Just too much lack of WP:AGF and too combative

Preliminary proposed remedy Not sure Talk:Indo-Aryan languages falls within IPA, except for user making it so. I'd go with some sort of topic ban, but there's a lot of spill over. And the previous problems back in 2019. I don't think it would work. It's either fashion a topic ban or a block. No prior blocks, though. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 15:00, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@TrangaBellam: To HistoryofIran they said this? The mind reels. More inclined than ever to indef as regular admin action. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 17:51, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Oh, August 20 of this year and self reverted. Thanks, but that's old. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 17:52, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@EdJohnston: Indeed. They edit in spurts, and have not edited since this discussion began. On the one hand, I'd like to give them an opportunity to respond. On the other, I don't I want to read the response. I like the way they lecture other users on "the way we do things". Or is that just a form of intimidation? Be happy to block w/o a response. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 07:28, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
Indefinite block as regular admin action.. User has been far from WP:CIVIL throughout their Wikicareer. They have made personal attacks and cast aspersions, and offered threats, while treating Misplaced Pages as a battleground. They attack other users who try to communicate with them, and see attempts to help them edit constructively as harassment and intimidation. I was waiting to give them a chance to address their behavior as my initial impression was unfavorable. Their responses in this AE thread, on my talk page, and on their talk page do not inspire me with the hope that their incivility will cease. A topic ban has been proposed, but their edits actually fall outside WP:ARBIPA. And nothing in their interactions suggest they would adhere to a topic ban. A time limited block has been suggested, but their editing is sporadic with inactivity periods up to six months long. When they return, they resume where they left off. They might not even notice a time limited block, and they could simply out wait it and resume their unacceptable behavior after it ends. Because we have a history of incivilty and battlegrounding going back for years, I believe an indefinite block is the best alternative. Indefinite is not infinite. They could be unblocked the day after they are blocked if they addressed their behavior. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 01:18, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

When a user like Xoltron is so aggressive right out of the gate an indefinite block has to be an option to consider. I think they must be oblivious to the trouble they are causing. They appear to see long time contributors as a set of horrible POV-pushers that they need to combat. From what they said on Kautilya3's page: "I am sorry that you are apparently angry and upset, but engaging in outright fraudulent accusations is not how we do things on Wikipdia. Please Consider this a warning and refrain from engaging in further bullying activities" I don't see how this situation turns around without some kind of a block. A time-limited block would suggest we are optimistic for a change of heart in the future. EdJohnston (talk) 04:25, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

I am struck by how many times in a short editing history Xoltron has accused people they disagree with of harassment, bullying or similar behaviours . Some of their editing has also been rather tenacious, e.g. here they assert that academics "have always designated this class of languages and ethnicities as Indic, not Indo-Aryan", only to be shown a long list of sources of academics using "Indo-Aryan". I'm not sure how much of this relates to ARBIPA, as most of their editing history concerns Iran, but this kind of behaviour is likely to lead to an indef block sooner or later. Hut 8.5 11:44, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
I will echo what Hut says, this user very quickly jumps to accusing people of harassment. Just now in their statement they repeated this behavior towards Deepfriedokra in response to a simple question regarding their purpose on the project. I feel that while connected to the topic, this behavior goes beyond the topic. I am not sure a topic ban will resolve the issue. I am leaning towards ~~something between a DS block for 1 month for combative behavior at the least, and~~ a regular admin action WP:NOTHERE indef block ~~at the most~~. HighInBC 00:27, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Given this rubbish I am going to lean heavily towards the indefinite block for battleground behavior and not being here to write an encyclopedia. HighInBC 00:35, 19 September 2021 (UTC)