Misplaced Pages

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Welcome to Misplaced Pages! पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 18:38, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! Antiquistik (talk) 18:45, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Welcome "to Misplaced Pages" Antiquistik!

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Thanks for the welcome. Antiquistik (talk) 18:52, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Loriyan Tangai

Hello Antiquistik! If you feel like it, you could fill in the Kharoshthi text for the Loriyan Tangai Buddha inscription ... There is a nice photograph of the inscription on Commons: File:Loriyan Tangai Kharoshthi inscription of the year 318.jpg. If you have a lot of time and endurance, Shinkot casket or Bimaran casket could be other ones. Best! पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 03:54, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Award

		The Ancient Scripts award
		Many thanks for improving the encyclopedia's coverage of inscriptions in the Kharosthi and Brahmi scripts! Not everyone can fluently edit Kharosthi as you do... I am looking forward to more of your future contributions! पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 07:48, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

PS: you can decorate your User Page by copy-pasting the above content. It will be a nice start! पाटलिपुत्र Pat  (talk) 07:48, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the award. I've added the original Kharosthi script of the inscriptions to all three, although I wasn't able to find the full Kharosthi text of the already translated Shinkot casket inscription, so I didn't fill out the lacunae. Antiquistik (talk) 10:39, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Magnificient! Thank you! पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 10:44, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi Antiquistik! If you have time and patience, here are a few more tricky ones: Kanishka casket, Rukhuna reliquary, Wardak Vase, Brussels Buddha, Bajaur casket, Silver Reliquary of Indravarman. In case you are as comfortable with Aramaic as you are with Kharosthi: Aramaic Inscription of Taxila, Aramaic Inscription of Laghman, Pul-i-Darunteh Aramaic inscription. Thank you so much again! पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 10:47, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Very impressive! पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 16:06, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Haha thanks a lot! I appreciate it. And do tell me if you find any material that'll allow me to fill the lacunae of the Shinkot casket. Antiquistik (talk) 20:31, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

.... and in case you also know Sogdian Stamp seal (BM 119999)... पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 16:33, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

I have added the Kharosthi texts to the Brussels Buddha, Bajaur casket and Silver Reliquary of Indravarman articles. However I can't find any picture of the whole inscriptions for the Kanishka casket, Rukhuna reliquary and Wardak Vase to be able to add the Kharosthi texts as accurate to the original inscriptions. I'll work on the Aramaic inscriptions tomorrow, and I'll give it a try for the Sogdian one too. Antiquistik (talk) 20:31, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi Antiquistik! Yes, that's difficult. I can send you high-res pictures of the Rukhuna reliquary though. For this you would have to activate an e-mail address in the "Preferences" settup of your account (use an e-mail address that does not reveal your identity, in order to maintain privacy), then send me a Misplaced Pages e-mail through the "Email this user" tag on my user page. Then, I can send the images directly to your e-mail address. Best regards पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 06:48, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

I have also completed the Rukhuna reliquary. I'll try to see if I can find any pictures of the inscriptions of the Kanishka casket and the Wardak Vase and add the Kharosthi inscriptions to their pages. Antiquistik (talk) 07:55, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Fantastic! Thank you so much! पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 08:18, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

@पाटलिपुत्र: I have finally added the Kharosthi text to the Kanishka casket and the Wardak Vase too. And, again, please do let me know if you learn of any material that will allow me to fill the lacunae of the Shinkot casket. Antiquistik (talk) 03:37, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	A barnstar for your dedication to the Egyptology universe of Misplaced Pages! CaeserKaiser (talk) 22:57, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the award! Antiquistik (talk) 14:56, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Akkadian cuneiform

Hello! I saw that you replaced some of the image files of cuneiform in the articles on the Neo-Babylonian kings with the actually typed out scripts. I think an issue here is that the unicode akkadian cuneiform is the antique (Sumerian-esque) signs, which had developed to look considerably different by the time of the Neo-Babylonian kings, so it might be misleading. The image files were supposed to be more contemporary renditions (which are not available in unicode format). The signs used in the images do not look the same as the signs used in the scripts, though they represent earlier and later versions of the same ones. Ichthyovenator (talk) 11:16, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

@Ichthyovenator: Hello. I am sorry, I wasn't aware of this issue. Should I revert these edits? Antiquistik (talk) 22:18, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

It's no problem. In the best of all possible worlds there would be unicode versions of the neo-assyrian and neo-babylonian akkadian signs. I'm undecided myself as to what the best solution is, but I think we should either 1) use the unicode renditions (correct spelling but given the antiquated signs not how these kings would have spelled their own names), 2) use the image files (contemporary signs but feels a bit wonky) or 3) not provide the cuneiform rendition at all but just the transliterated Akkadian name. One argument in favor of dropping the cuneiform entirely would be that spellings could vary greatly: Nebuchadnezzar II's name could be spelled with 3 signs or with 10 signs, both producing "Nabû-kudurri-uṣur". IMO the unicode version sadly doesn't work well for these late figures but I'd be eager to read your opinion as well. Ichthyovenator (talk) 23:27, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

@Ichthyovenator: In this case, I'd opt for using the images until a unicode encoding of Neo-Babylonian cuneiform is available. Antiquistik (talk) 23:34, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

@Ichthyovenator: I've also noticed the template doesn't convert the sign 𒌶 to its Neo-Assyrian form. Do you know where or who should I address this problem to? Antiquistik (talk) 04:54, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

I actually believed that Neo-Assyrian was not supported either, but looking at the template page I can see that Neo-Assyrian is the only signs other than Classical Sumerian which are supposed to be implemented. I can't get it to work either but it's also an issue given that Neo-Assyrian signs are arguably even more different from the Classical Sumerian ones than Neo-Babylonian signs are. I've asked about this at Template talk:Script. Ichthyovenator (talk) 09:50, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

@Ichthyovenator: Thanks for asking about it! Yes, the Neo-Assyrian display does work for me when using the 7, except occasionally for a sign or two, such as for 𒌶. Antiquistik (talk) 10:02, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Unless I'm mistaken I can't seem to get it to work at all so that's strange! Do 𒀭𒈗𒃻𒌦 and 𒀭𒈗𒃻𒌦 look different to you (they look the exact same to me - is the problem on my end)? The Neo-Assyrian rendition is supposed to be something like . Ichthyovenator (talk) 10:08, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

@Ichthyovenator: Yes, they display differently for me. Here is how they look to me:

Antiquistik (talk) 10:19, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

What the hell lol. Thanks for showing me, good to see that it at least partially works as intended for some people. I've added this to my question at the talk page as well since people seeing the template differently seems to be an issue then as well. Ichthyovenator (talk) 10:30, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

@Ichthyovenator: I suspect you might need to install some fonts on whatever device you are using for them to display. Do try this, and maybe that might solve your issue. Antiquistik (talk) 14:02, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Yes, probably. I'll look into it, thank you. Good to see that it at least partially works as intended. Ichthyovenator (talk) 16:22, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Maureen Wroblewitz

Hello. Help improve and copy edit. Thanks you. Kolpb (talk) 09:10, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

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Copy-paste for moving articles

Hi. Please do not do a copy-paste for moving articles as you did at Ramayana. Please read thru Help:How to move a page — DaxServer (t · m · c) 11:46, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

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Moves with addition of diacritics

Though diacritics are neither encouraged nor discouraged on wikipedia, Indian and Hindu article names generally use names without IAST diacritics. Yaksha is preferred over yakṣa. Merriam webster, Britannica use yaksha or rakshasa , rather than the IAST. Please see WP:COMMONNAME. --Redtigerxyz 17:21, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Similarly Ajatashatru and Bimbisara are common names in English. . Kindly move articles only after referencing if an common English name is not available or is the current name. You may also use WP:RM for generating a WP:CONSENSUS before moving an article.--Redtigerxyz 15:39, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Recent edits

Hi Antiquistik! I suppose you know what you are doing (as has been clear in the past), but many of your recent edits seem a bit drastic. Can you explain in essence what they are about? Also, I would recommend that you never make an edit without an edit summary, that should give a bit of background and clarify your intentions. Best regards! पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 18:27, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

@पाटलिपुत्र: I saw certain article page names having the diacritics accurate to their scholarly transliteration while some did not have the diacritics, so I tried to standardise them so they would all have the diacritics in the page names. I've since been told that my renamings were not appropriate, so I reversed them. Although I am still puzzled as to why there is a disparity in form. Antiquistik (talk) 18:36, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, it seems OK, but please keep on with "Edit summaries". Best! पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 19:43, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

No move discussions started

Please reverse your changes to Shakya and Sakya. Such page moves require a move discussion, which you did not initiate. Please put them back and start the discussion so we can see if there is a consensus for your arbitrary moves which have broken numerous links throughout many articles. Skyerise (talk) 16:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

@Skyerise: which changes specifically? I've worked on those pages a number of times over the last few days, so I'll need some precision. Although, in the case of the broken links, I can correct this issue manually, if you are ok with it. Antiquistik (talk) 17:25, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Move reverted.

Your undiscussed move of Sakya has been reverted. Please file a proper request at Misplaced Pages:Requested moves. BD2412 T 01:45, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

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Chedi kingdom

Hello mughal son i saw you removed many information in chedi kingdom while sources support that information 2409:4053:C84:5862:0:0:8889:806 (talk) 20:37, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

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About Cimmerians

Origin of Cimmerians are not clear

How do you categorize the language spoken by a people that even in the title mentions the possibility of not being Thracian as a definite Iranian language? Burtigin (talk) 17:20, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

@Burtigin: There are several academic objections to identifying the Cimmerians as Thracians in the article that also support an identification with the Iranic equestrian nomads. Antiquistik (talk) 17:41, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Then why do you consider only the claims that they are Iranian and not the Thracian claims? Burtigin (talk) 18:27, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

@Burtigin: because there are no refutations I am aware of that have successfully challenged the objections to opposing the identification of the Cimmerians as Thracians. So, therefore, the most solid argument is given priority. Antiquistik (talk) 18:41, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Arguments Some words from the Cimmerian language and historical records of Cimmerians and Scythians getting along without an interpreter

The Iranian origin of the Cimmerians is no more likely than their Thracian origin, on the contrary, we do not even know that the rest of the Cimmerians are Indo-European, except for the ruling clan Burtigin (talk) 19:11, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

@Burtigin: There are several different arguments in the article, including but not limited to this one. If you want to maintain a Thracian origin, you need to be able to provide academic refutations of these different arguments. Misplaced Pages requires verifiability, and if you cannot provide any verification for a claim, then this claim cannot be on Misplaced Pages. Antiquistik (talk) 19:17, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

The problem is that those sources are based on estimations, not definitive evidence, so what needs to be done is:

• Indo-European (?)
  • Cimmerian language Burtigin (talk) 19:30, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

@Burtigin: Again, you need to be able to provide sources for your positions on the topic. If can provide verified sources for them, then they can be on Misplaced Pages, but if you cannot provide any verification, then they cannot be on Misplaced Pages. Antiquistik (talk) 19:45, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

From encylopedia iranica

As the Cimmerians cannot be differentiated archeologically from the Scythians, it is possible to speculate about their Iranian origins. In the Neo-Babylonian texts (according to D’yakonov, including at least some of the Assyrian texts in Babylonian dialect) Gimirri and similar forms designate the Scythians and Central Asian Saka, reflecting the perception among inhabitants of Mesopotamia that Cimmerians and Scythians represented a single cultural and economic group (D’yakonov, 1981, pp. 118ff.; Dandamayev, pp. 95-105). Unfortunately, the proposed etymologies of the names of Cimmerian kings—­Teušpa, Tug/k/Dúg/k-dam-mì-i, and Sa-an-dak-KUR-ru (read Sandakšatru?)—are not completely reliable, though they could be Iranian (D’yakonov, 1981, pp. 112 n. 20, 116-17 n. 30; cf. Mayrhofer, pp. 187ff.). The ingenious etymology proposed for the ethnonym itself, from Iranian *gāmīra-/*gmīra- “mobile unit” (D’yakonov, 1981, pp. 131-32), cannot be verified, but no other satisfactory suggestion has been put forward. The widely held opinion that the Cimmerians were of Thracian origin depends in fact only on the confused information of Strabo: “The Cimmerians, who are also called Treres, or some people of them” (1.3.21); “. . . Treres, a Cimmerian people” (14.1.40). In all other references, however, Strabo and other authors treated Treres and Cimmerians as separate peoples (cf. Strabo, 1.3.21, 12.3.24, 12.8.7, and 13.4.8; cf. Callisthenes, in Jacoby, Fragmente, no. 124, fr. 29; for more detail, see Cozzoli, pp. 75ff). Some scholars have considered the word árgillai “underground dwell­ings,” which Ephorus applied to the habitations of the Avernian Cimmerians, as of Thracian origin, but those Cimmerians were not directly related to the historical people (see above); the same word, attested this time as a Greek word, has a convincing Greek etymology (cf. Chantraine, p. 103).

https://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/cimmerians-nomads Burtigin (talk) 09:53, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

@Burtigin: What? I can't understand anything that you're trying to say here. Antiquistik (talk) 09:55, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

I need to speak to a really "neutral" official who apparently doesn't take the side of the Pan-Iranists Burtigin (talk) 18:33, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

@Burtigin: No one here is "taking the side of the Pan-Iranists." Misplaced Pages works on verifiability, which means that we need data to confirm any claim, and if there is no data to support any claim then it doesn't belong on Misplaced Pages. If you want your position to be on Misplaced Pages, then provide a serious academic source for it.

I see you have also been hurling baseless accusations at people who revert your bad edits towards @HistoryofIran: and @Arado Ar 196: too, and I will ask you to stop doing so. Otherwise you will be reported. Antiquistik (talk) 19:00, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

It did not seem neutral at all to add a piece of information to the article by accepting it as true, by showing only the academic sources that made inferences based on rumors and not definite claims (the same sources also emphasize that the Cimmerians were of Thracian origin).

Iranian countries and dynasties page has the same issues

I'm going to collect a lot of academic research on the Thracian origin of the Cimmerians, let's see what your excuse will be then. Burtigin (talk) 23:23, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Antiquistik is not making any 'excuses', they are simply following the policies of this site. Perhaps you could learn something from them. I'm not sure why you're so fixated on articles that has something to do with Iranians (including Kurds ). It is certainly not due to interest in the topic, that's for sure. Perhaps one should start to question if WP:NOTHERE applies here. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:33, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Maybe it's because pan-iranists (it can be understood by looking at the nickname) declaring everything "Iranian" by showing imprecise information.

I will collect all academic resources on Cimmerians, Xionites and their derivatives, let's see what you will offer as an "excuse" not to change this time.

Moreover, to present some Turkish provinces as "Kurdish majority" for some unknown reason, by citing the pages that promote Kurdish nationalism, is proof of how neutral people like you who are on Misplaced Pages are. Burtigin (talk) 06:08, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Besides, although the Zazas are not Kurds but a separate Iranian people, you are officially denying a people by citing Kurdish sites. Burtigin (talk) 06:10, 29 August 2022 (UTC)