Talk:BC United - Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Checco (talk | contribs) at 05:18, 25 April 2023 (→Split: comment). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 05:18, 25 April 2023 by Checco (talk | contribs) (→Split: comment)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the BC United article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 6 months

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Canada: British Columbia / Politics Mid‑importance

	Canada portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Canada, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Canada on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CanadaWikipedia:WikiProject CanadaTemplate:WikiProject CanadaCanada-related
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject British Columbia.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Political parties and politicians in Canada.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Politics: Political parties

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by Political parties task force (assessed as Mid-importance).

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Conservatism Mid‑importance

	Conservatism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Conservatism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of conservatism on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ConservatismWikipedia:WikiProject ConservatismTemplate:WikiProject ConservatismConservatism
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the `\|auto=` parameter.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Elections and Referendums

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Elections and Referendums, an ongoing effort to improve the quality of, expand upon and create new articles relating to elections, electoral reform and other aspects of democratic decision-making. For more information, visit our project page.Elections and ReferendumsWikipedia:WikiProject Elections and ReferendumsTemplate:WikiProject Elections and ReferendumsElections and Referendums

It is requested that a photograph be included in this article to improve its quality.
The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

It is requested that a logo be included in this article to improve its quality.
For more information, refer to discussion on this page and/or the listing at Misplaced Pages:Requested images. The Free Image Search Tool may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

This article is written in Canadian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, centre, travelled, realize, analyze) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Renaming

So if they rename themselves as planned, what acronym will describe the BC UC Party? KenWalker | Talk 06:48, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Acronyms are initials that can be pronounced as words and therefore does not apply in this case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.3.72.79 (talk) 02:04, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

That is not a question worth entertaining right now. Just be patient and the party will tell you themselves following the rename vote. Yue🌙 23:52, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

The party membership have agreed to change it to BC United, but the party itself hasn't ratified the vote, yet. GoodDay (talk) 22:00, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Acronym are initials that can be pronounced as words and therefore acronym does not apply in this case. 49.3.72.79 (talk) 02:02, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

I'll call them the B-CUPs, because the whole party is filled with a bunch of boobs, anwyays. But yeah, once the party execs ratify the name change on their end, I imagine we'll see some clarity on what the name change will entail. Canuck 06:13, November 17, 2022 (UTC)

The name change took effect today. We need to update the article.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 00:34, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 13 April 2023

The request to rename this article to BC United has been carried out.

If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag.

British Columbia United → BC United – The party officially changed its name today. The official name registered with Elections BC is "BC United". The article should be moved to reflect this change.-- Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 00:48, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Well, I thought we should go with the official name but, in fairness for the previous name (British Columbia Liberal Party), we used the full "British Columbia" despite the official name (and one used on ballots) being "BC Liberal Party". Also for the "BC NDP", we use the longer British Columbia New Democratic Party despite "BC NDP" being the official and ballot name. So maybe we should stick with "British Columbia United" or change it to the longer "British Columbia United Party". I don't have a strong opinion either way.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 01:26, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

The political party is titled “BC United”, not “British Columbia United Party”. “BC United” is fine, or “BC United (political party)” if a need for disambiguation arises. Although, being honest, we should consider creating a separate article on BC United and leaving the article intact for the now-historical BC Liberal party.)— Autospark (talk) 08:50, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Note - There is some discussion of this in the discussion below.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 17:19, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Updates required given name change

We need the new logo, and may need to change the party colour used in tables, charts etc. Also need to rescue the archives which are still at Talk:British Columbia Liberal Party/Archive 1, 2, 3 etc.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 01:06, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

The colours in the tables etc should remain BC Liberal red when talking about historical events, as they were still the BC Liberals then. (There's actually some precedent here; the Austrian People's Party changed their branding from black to teal a few years back, and teal is only used in tables/charts/lists after the change, never backdated.) I'm going to propose that a new entry for United be added to Template:Canadian party colour. — Kawnhr (talk) 01:45, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

why don't we just leave this page as BC liberals and Note that they were dissolved and succeeded by BC united and have a new BC united page? Hholdenday (talk) 02:46, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

But the BC Liberal Party was not dissolved; it just changed its name. BC United isn't a legal successor, it is the same legal entity. — Kawnhr (talk) 15:45, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

What even are BC United's colors? The new logo is predominantly dark grey with a very tiny pink and teal swoop. The website seems to use pink and teal roughly equally. Maybe teal like the Austrian People's Party? MAINEiac4434 (talk) 03:45, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

I moved the talk page archive to match this main talk page. If there's another move, the mover should just move the archive and update the archive configuration at the same time. (When it's an RM that closes in favour of moving, the closer will normally take care of it.) Adumbrativus (talk) 05:26, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

I’m moving towards being in favour of splitting the article – keeping an article for the historical BC Liberal Party (a party which had participation in government for much of British Columbia's history) and creating a new, separate article for BC United.— Autospark (talk) 09:18, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Speaking of the colours, we have yet to reach a consensus as to what colours to use. Personally, I prefer we go with pink. I think we should either discuss them here or here, where a discussion has already begun. -- Earl Andrew - talk 13:25, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

i support leaving a historical liberal page and moving towards creating a new BC united page Hholdenday (talk) 15:43, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't see why we should do that. BC United is not a new party, it's an existing one with a new brand. You could point to how Canadian Alliance has a separate page from Reform Party of Canada, but the CA's re-foundation was a notable and protracted development, and (at least ostensibly) a merger. That's not the case here, where the BCL simply voted to change its name, and then did. If the BC NDP and BC CCF can share a page, there's no reason the BCU and BCL can't. — Kawnhr (talk) 15:55, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Agree with Kawnhr. This was a facelift and name change, not the formation of a new party. Same leader, MLAs and policies before and after. It is not the sort of shift that would allow us to view the BC Liberals and BC United as two distinct parties, worthy of two separate articles.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 17:15, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Also agree with Kawnhr... this is noted in all sources as a name change/rebrand. The BC Liberals did not disband. The BC Liberals do not exist independent of BC United... they are BC United. —Joeyconnick (talk) 18:10, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

I also agree with Kawnhr. Rushtheeditor (talk) 00:05, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Concerning colours, I think it is safe to say we will end up using whatever most WP:RS use in their election coverage. Perhaps there is not much point discussing it too much until then.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 22:55, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

The party's website appears to be emphasizing teal on the homepage. However, I agree that we should wait and see what will be used more in the forthcoming election.Raellerby (talk) 14:57, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

FWIW, JP Fournier from Maclean's and 338canada.com did a Twitter poll, and pink ended up winning, so he will be using pink in his analysis.-- Earl Andrew - talk 15:11, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps we should just add United to the template with the current Liberal colour for now? It seems like a good idea to get it in there. — Kawnhr (talk) 16:08, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

I am not particularly concerned about the article's name, but I surely support the two-article option: one for the century-old BC Liberal party and one for this one. It is quite better to keep to have separate articles, for the sake of readers and history. --Checco (talk) 12:26, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Old Logos

Other BC Liberal Logo

I have added another old Liberal logo thumbnail to the relevant section. Including these may be more important/helpful now given the name change. In the historical sections, it will remind readers that the party was not always known by its current name (and for most of its history was not). If anyone can find the exact dates that these logos were adopted, and discontinued that would be useful. Anyway, it seems this one is available too. I have not added it yet because I don't see a WP:RS that it was actually used, though I assume/believe it was. Not sure when though.-- Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 17:51, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Did you get that from the Election Prediction Project? That's the logo they used in 2001.-- Earl Andrew - talk 18:02, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

No, just did a file search on the project.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 18:04, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Ah. Well, if that isn't RS enough for you, that logo was used on the BC Liberal website in 2001 as well.-- Earl Andrew - talk 18:05, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Works for me.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 18:06, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Split

@Autospark: please tell us, why you think so Braganza (talk) 18:24, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

I feel that it is best that we should underline the (former) party's long and significant history as the British Columbia Liberal Party, which has governed British Columbia for a significant part of the province's existence, as well as the party itself being a section of the Liberal Party of Canada for most of the 20th century, and treat this 'rebranded' party as if it's a new, separate entity.--Autospark (talk) 21:09, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

The split with the federal Liberals happened in 1987. For 35 years, it operated as the "BC Liberals" without any connection to the Liberal Party of Canada. Even before that it was complex/messy, as there were coalitions and electoral cooperation agreements with local conservatives from time to time as those parties cooperated to defeat CCF/NDP and Socreds. But all of this is distant history, when the party changed its name a week ago, the name and logo is all that changed. It was a facelift. The party's leader, MLAs and policies remain the same. The party is the same entity it was before. In these circumstances, it would be odd to view these parties as separate entities. We have one article for the CCF/NDP, why should we have two here?--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 23:02, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

To insert myself into this conversation briefly, I understand the desire to want to preserve the history of what used to be called the BC Liberals, but that can easily be accomplished with the simple acknowledgement on the current article as it stands, since the history of the party is already written. Plus, precedent is in favour of the opposite. Name changes for political parties have usually not garnered the need for new articles, while splits and mergers have. I think that since the party has seen no major rift as of yet, that we keep the same article, and if there is a split or merger of some sort, then we can create a new article. EnigmaticSigma (talk) 12:28, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

In addition to what Darryl Kerrigan said above, there just isn't anything to split at this time, or even really the immediate future. Maybe in 20 or 30 years, they'll have a distinct identity and enough history to warrant it. — Kawnhr (talk) 04:44, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

There could be an argument for having three articles: one on BCLP until 1987, one on BCLP from 1987 to 2023 and one for BC United since 2023. Surely, as there has been a change of name, I would at least split the article and have a new one for BC United. --Checco (talk) 05:18, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Colour

isn't BCU more teal than pink , at the bottom there is even their logo in white on tealish ground Braganza (talk) 05:37, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

@Earl Andrew, Hholdenday, and PLATEL: @User:Briguychau Braganza (talk) 08:57, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

I have not dealt with this political party, but I think pink suits it better for two reasons

1) historical continuity from the BC Liberal Party, which used a red color close to current

2) The turquoise color is slightly similar to the color of the BC Conservative Party, which can be confusing. PLATEL (talk) 09:04, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

well, i would rather change the CPBC color, it was dark blue since 1991 when they stopped calling themselves PC. Also ÖVP still uses black to some extend but we switched to cyan

2010s
current

Braganza (talk) 09:20, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

I do not understand the colors of the Canadian parties at all, they are all kind of faded. Apparently this has been on Misplaced Pages for a long time. PLATEL (talk) 10:10, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

It's a PC relict I think Braganza (talk) 10:15, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

The main party colour is teal; the pink appears to be an accent colour.-- Autospark (talk) 10:20, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello, if you have an opinion on the colour, I would say to bring it up here. It seems to be the majority opinion so far is to go with pink, as it's closer to the red they were when they were the Liberals. Also, teal is too close to Green (used by the Greens) and blue (used by the Conservatives).-- Earl Andrew - talk 13:20, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

pink isnt that different from Orange either (and the blue problem can be fixed) Braganza (talk) 17:35, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Template talk:Canadian party colour#RfC: British Columbia United Braganza (talk) 21:44, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Categories: