Talk:Joe Biden - Misplaced Pages

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Joe Biden was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
September 18, 2008	Good article nominee	Not listed
September 19, 2008	Good article nominee	Listed
April 22, 2020	Good article reassessment	Delisted
June 28, 2020	Good article reassessment	Delisted
October 4, 2020	Good article nominee	Not listed
Current status: Delisted good article

Other banners: Top 25 reports; media mentions; pageviews; section size

Top 50 Report and Top 25 Report annual lists

This article has been viewed enough times to make it onto the all-time Top 100 list. It has had 82 million views since December 2007.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single year to make it into the Top 50 Report annual list. This happened in 2020 and 2021.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 20 times. The weeks in which this happened:

This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:

Brian Krebs (August 29, 2008). "Misplaced Pages Edits Forecast Vice Presidential Picks". The Washington Post.
(none) (August 17, 2009). "The 50 most-viewed Misplaced Pages articles in 2009 and 2008". The Daily Telegraph.
Maxwell Tani (May 15, 2015). "Meet the guy who has protected Hillary Clinton's Misplaced Pages page for almost a decade". Business Insider.
Alex Pasternack (March 7, 2020). "How Misplaced Pages's volunteers became the web's best weapon against misinformation". Fast Company.
Kalev Leetaru (April 29, 2020). "Biden vs. Kavanaugh: How the #MeToo Numbers Stack Up". Real Clear Politics.
Mayank Aggarwal (July 16, 2021). "Nobody should trust Misplaced Pages, says man who invented Misplaced Pages". The Independent.
Madeleine Spence (August 1, 2021). "Larry Sanger: 'I wouldn't trust Misplaced Pages — and I helped to invent it'". The Sunday Times.
Jack Beresford (September 2, 2021). "Misplaced Pages 'War in Afghanistan' Article Describes It As a 'Taliban Victory'". Newsweek.

Section sizes

Section size for Joe Biden (63 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	9,680	9,680
Early life (1942–1965)	9,050	9,050
Marriages, law school, and early career (1966–1973)	10,450	27,033
1972 U.S. Senate campaign in Delaware	1,826	1,826
Death of wife and daughter	3,802	3,802
Second marriage	8,351	8,351
Teaching	2,604	2,604
U.S. Senate (1973–2009)	74	39,472
Senate activities	19,293	19,293
Brain surgeries	2,434	2,434
Senate Judiciary Committee	6,590	6,590
Senate Foreign Relations Committee	5,856	11,081
Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq	5,225	5,225
1988 and 2008 presidential campaigns	44	16,364
1988 campaign	10,829	10,829
2008 campaign	5,491	5,491
2008 and 2012 vice presidential campaigns	49	27,951
2008 campaign	12,032	12,032
2012 campaign	15,870	15,870
Vice presidency (2009–2017)	77	38,362
First term (2009–2013)	23,882	23,882
Second term (2013–2017)	10,003	14,403
Role in the 2016 presidential campaign	4,400	4,400
Post-vice presidency (2017–2021)	6,681	6,681
2020 presidential campaign	78	31,894
Speculation and announcement	3,490	3,490
Campaign	22,406	22,406
Presidential transition	5,920	5,920
Presidency (2021–present)	133	197,903
Inauguration	6,205	6,205
First 100 days	13,050	13,050
Domestic policy	9,091	75,440
Economy	19,261	19,261
Judiciary	5,670	5,670
Infrastructure and climate	14,616	14,616
Immigration	11,541	11,541
Pardons and commutations	3,460	3,460
Pardon of Hunter Biden	5,366	5,366
2022 elections	6,435	6,435
Foreign policy	7,782	59,703
Withdrawal from Afghanistan	11,473	11,473
Russian invasion of Ukraine	12,113	12,113
China affairs	10,192	10,192
Israel–Hamas war	14,104	14,104
NATO enlargement	4,039	4,039
Investigations	23	13,988
Retention of classified documents	5,768	5,768
Business activities	8,197	8,197
Age and health concerns	9,001	9,001
2024 presidential campaign	20,383	20,383
Political positions	30,857	30,857
Public image	10,788	20,395
Job approval	8,133	8,133
Media depictions	1,474	1,474
See also	238	238
Notes	138	138
References	17	1,680
Citations	34	34
Works cited	1,629	1,629
Further reading	1,430	1,430
External links	119	10,928
Official	440	440
Other	10,369	10,369
Total	470,056	470,056

NOTE: It is recommended to link to this list in your edit summary when reverting, as:
] item
To ensure you are viewing the current list, you may wish to purge this page.

01. In the lead section, mention that Biden is the oldest president. (RfC February 2021)

02. There is no consensus on including a subsection about gaffes. (RfC March 2021)

03. The infobox is shortened. (RfC February 2021)

04. The lead image is the official 2021 White House portrait. (January 2021, April 2021)

05. The lead image's caption is Official portrait, 2021. (April 2021)

06. In the lead sentence, use who is as opposed to serving as when referring to Biden as the president. (RfC July 2021)

07. In the lead sentence, use 46th and current as opposed to just 46th when referring to Biden as the president. (RfC July 2021)

08. In the lead section, do not mention Biden's building of a port to facilitate American aid to Palestinians. (RfC June 2024)

Neutrality of this article and the presentation of this subject

Why was the mention of the controversial withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan removed while it has been attested as such in many reliable sources? I find it weird as a casual reader that these inconsistencies are presented in articles related to U.S. presidents. Misplaced Pages must present views equally and make sure that it isn’t wrong but this is an example I noticed. I hope someone could address my concern as I hope I am not the only one who saw it. Defender1776 (talk) 22:07, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

There is currently an entire section in the article devoted to this topic, including a mention of the criticism that he faced due to the withdrawal. Aoi (青い) (talk) 22:18, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Someone removed it from the introduction paragraph. It should summarize there too. I just hope someone sees this since it was placed right. Defender1776 (talk) 11:54, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Defender1776, the four paragraphs in Joe Biden#Withdrawal from Afghanistan isn't enough for you? – Muboshgu (talk) 00:00, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Biden Health

Since becoming president Biden has fallen up the stairs of Air force One, fallen off his bicycle, fallen over on stage at a military induction ceremony and banged his head exiting the presidential helicopter. As President he refuses to take a cognitive test and is considered by many medical experts to be suffering from dementia. Why aren't these facts included in his profile. 78.105.88.141 (talk) 11:11, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

He is NOT considered by many medical experts to be suffering from dementia. That is a stupid, partisan lie. The rest of what you describe is irrelevant to being President. For twelve years the country had a very successful President who couldn't stand up at all. HiLo48 (talk) 11:18, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree with HiLo, I don't think Biden is considered by medical experts to be suffering from dementia. Please give a source, IP. And in the future, it speeds the conversation along if you post sources for your claims (perhaps if they are not widely known to be factual). Now I will have to wait for you to respond. SmileyTrek (talk) 18:20, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

OK, lets see these medical experts. Slatersteven (talk) 18:21, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Who are the med experts on dementia? GoodDay (talk) 20:44, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Please provide documentation for your assertions, including your claim Biden refuses to take any test and the medical assessment of doctors that have examined Biden. 331dot (talk) 12:17, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

🤨Reference? Parham wiki (talk) 16:06, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

An IP presented a reference to WP:FOXNEWS along with a long shpiel, but Acroterion deleted it as WP:NOTAFORUM. IP, WP:FOXNEWS is not a reliable source when it comes to Joe Biden, or any other topic within American politics. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:39, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

IP, please don't repost the same copy/pasted text. It's overkill. If you click the link --> WP:FOXNEWS, it will lead you to the discussion where the community determined that Fox News is unreliable for politics because of their blatant innaccuracies. It is here - – Muboshgu (talk) 00:08, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Fox News seems to be opinion based rather than persuasive for politics. Cwater1 (talk) 15:23, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

In any event, Biden has lately made a huge number of gaffes, or however the editors here choose to characterize them. They may or may not be cognitive function related, but certainly these episodes bear mention. I am referring to his turning to shake hands with non-existent people, saying "God save the Queen, man" to a crowd after a gun control speech, the statement earlier this week that we will have conserved 30% of all U.S. lands and waters by 2020, etc., etc. These need to be mentioned in the article. Greenwashing (talk) 16:59, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

We need MEDERS compliant sources in a BLP about medical matters. Slatersteven (talk) 17:01, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Joe Biden#Reputation covers his "gaffes" and embellishments. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:26, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

The Reputation section does not cover any of the gaffes and lies (characterized in this article as "embellishments". The article just mentions that he has made "gaffes" without citing any of the numerous examples. Of course, many of these "gaffes" go way beyond a simple slip of the tongue. A few recent examples are when he said "God Save the Queen, man" at the end of a speech on gun control. Or turning to try to shake hands with a non-existent person. Or stating a few days a promise to conserve 30% of America’s water and land mass by 2020. Or that he would build a train across the Pacific Ocean. His "gaffes" are certainly something that needs to prominently mentioned in this article, with examples. Just a sentence of two stating that he has made gaffes glosses over this important issue. As for Slatersteven's statement that we need MEDERS compliant sources about medical matters - I am not referring to a medical matter per se. I just believe that concrete examples of his numerous, repeated, alarming gaffes need to be mentioned. It just seems that some of the editors here are doing everything they can to make sure nothing negative is mentioned prominently or with any detail. The result is that this article is anything but neutral, but rather reads like a campaign endorsement. Greenwashing (talk) 13:21, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

We are not listpedia, we mention it, we do not need to give specific examples. As to the accusation of whitewashing, wp:AGF, or give examples of users operating a double standard. Slatersteven (talk) 13:29, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Focus on content, not on contributors. I don't see you presenting any WP:RS to support that they are "alarming" for our consideration. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:42, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

I was focused on content when I mentioned the lack of substance to the article. As for a double standard - that is blatantly obvious. A simple comparison of the Misplaced Pages articles for the current and previous Presidents shows the high level of bias and lack of a neutral POV. I am told that lists are not appropriate for all of Biden's Gaffes, yet the Donald Trump article includes lists of charges brought against him, lists of countries included in his travel ban, lists of people pardoned, and other lists. Further, the Trump article is nearly all negative, and makes little to no mention of his significant successes economically and in foreign relations. After all, ISIS was destroyed on his watch after running rampant for the previous 8 years, the economy was booming after eight years of stagnation until Covid softened the huge gains somewhat, Korea didn't launch missiles, and Russia didn't invade Ukraine. These are all either not mentioned, seriously downplayed, or even painted as negative. In stark contrast, the Biden article paints his presidency as a success despite his policies causing high inflation and tanking the stock market. His policies have caused other failures, resulting in his very low favorability ratings. I am not asking for anything but to write each of these two articles with a neutral POV, highlighting both successes and failures of each. What we have now is a long article bashing Trump and another long article that looks like it was written by Biden's campaign staff. Greenwashing (talk) 17:16, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

If you want to include lists of charges brought against Biden, lists of countries included in his travel ban, lists of people pardoned go ahead. Slatersteven (talk) 17:21, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Trump's article seeming more negative than Biden's is a result of the WP:RS coverage they've received, which we reflect neutrally. Trying to make this page more negative in a tit-for-tat is WP:FALSEBALANCE. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:31, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Greenwashing - You are using Fox News talking points (never convincing to thinking editors) and making the classic mistake of blaming Biden for global issues. Inflation is global. In the UK they blame their conservative government and recent string of conservative Prime Ministers for inflation. Saying Biden caused it is a purely political statement on your part HiLo48 (talk) 00:00, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

The events are mentioned on the timelines of his presidency. It doesn't always have to be mentioned on the main article. The stumbling on stairs is mentioned here. Timeline_of_the_Joe_Biden_presidency_(2021_Q1)#Week_9 Cwater1 (talk) 21:32, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

HiLo48 -It is not necessary to attempt to denigrate me with statements like "(never convincing to thinking editors)", implying in a not exactly subtle way that you are a thinking editor and I am not, just because I have a more conservative viewpoint than you do. Greenwashing (talk) 00:57, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

We don't accept Fox News as a reliable source. Perhaps as a new editor you were not aware of that. Now you are. HiLo48 (talk) 04:05, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Fox News is slanted, to be sure, but no more than other sources you consider reliable, such as MSNBC, NYT and WaPo. To achieve balance it is important to consider more sources than just those that are left-leaning. Greenwashing (talk) 14:10, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

HiLo48 - You also state that I make a classic mistake blaming Biden for inflation in the U.S., when inflation is a global issue. Again, you communicate to me in a patronizing way, which I do not appreciate. Some aspects of inflation may be global, but Biden's policies directly led to inflation in the U.S. He signed the American Rescue Plan Act, the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, and the Inflation Reduction Act, with massive spending on climate change and social programs, and destroying tax relief put into place by the previous President, all of which triggered high prices on food, gasoline, and other items, tanking the effects of the economic boom under the previous President. Biden compounded this with more giveaways like student loan forgiveness. So while inflation may be global in your opinion, the high inflation we are experiencing in the U.S. was caused in large measure by Biden's policies. Greenwashing (talk) 14:37, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

This discussion has slid away from its initial topic. GoodDay (talk) 21:13, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

The initial topic was an editor telling negative lies about a President from the side of politics they don't like. I see no change. HiLo48 (talk) 22:54, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

HiLo48 - The edits I suggested are not negative lies, yet you felt it necessary to call me out with an insult, implying I am a non-thinker. You obviously think President Biden is doing a good job, and that is your prerogative, but your opinion is not shared by the majority of Americans as evidenced by his low approval ratings. Your repeated bashing of editors you disagree with is doing nothing to improve this article. Greenwashing (talk) 01:11, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Public opinion NEVER determines truth. The opening post here said Biden "refuses to take a cognitive test and is considered by many medical experts to be suffering from dementia." No evidence was produced to support those claims. They can therefore be considered to be partisan lies. HiLo48 (talk) 04:03, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

HiLo48 - President Biden has repeatedly refused to take a cognitive function test. I believe his exact words when questioned by a reporter about it were "why the hell would I do that?" It is not a lie. There are also medical professionals who have stated that Biden exhibits signs of dementia, but you probably write off every article to that effect as coming from a source not considered reliable. That is a convenient way for you and others to prevent negative information from appearing in an article about a liberal politician while allowing plenty of negative information in an article about a conservative politician. In any event that is not a lie either. And I never stated that public opinion determines facts - those are your words. I simply pointed out that the majority of people in the States do not share your opinion that Biden is doing a good job. Please stop twisting what I write, and please stop attacking me with insults. Greenwashing (talk) 14:19, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Illness during old age is the rule, rather than the exception. So the bar for saying that an old man is ill is not that high. These being said, consult WP:RSP and select therefrom WP:RS which have actually claimed that Biden is ill. Yup, the list does include conservative sources, but not extreme ones. Since one thing is saying that old men are generally speaking ill, and quite another thing to know which illnesses Biden actually suffers from. Several acting US presidents have been severely ill. So that's not something unheard of. tgeorgescu (talk) 02:12, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

"Several acting US president have been severely ill"? Biden isn't & never was, an acting president. He's the president. There's only been three acting presidents in US history - Bush 41, Cheney (twice) & Harris. GoodDay (talk) 09:17, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

So have several presidents (or at least allegations they were ill). We need medical opinoi based on examinations, not here say. Slatersteven (talk) 11:34, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

"Jill Biden's husband" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Jill Biden's husband has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 June 6 § Jill Biden's husband until a consensus is reached. Steel1943 (talk) 21:32, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Questions about neutrality

I think this articles lede could use a lot of work especially this paragraph:

"On January 20, 2021, at the age of 78, Biden became the oldest president in U.S. history, the first to have a female vice president, and the first from Delaware. As president, he has addressed the COVID-19 pandemic and subsequent recession. He signed the American Rescue Plan Act; the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, the Inflation Reduction Act, covering tax reform, deficit reduction, climate change and healthcare; the CHIPS and Science Act; and the Respect for Marriage Act, which codified protections for same-sex marriage and repealed the Defense of Marriage Act. He appointed Ketanji Brown Jackson to the Supreme Court. During the 2023 United States debt-ceiling crisis, Biden negotiated and signed a bipartisan agreement, the Fiscal Responsibility Act of 2023, to prevent a default. In foreign policy, Biden restored America's membership in the Paris Agreement on climate change. He oversaw the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan that had been negotiated and begun under the previous administration, ending the war in Afghanistan, during which the Afghan government collapsed and the Taliban seized control. He signed AUKUS, a security pact, together with Australia and the United Kingdom. He responded to the Russian invasion of Ukraine by imposing sanctions on Russia and authorizing foreign aid and weapons shipments to Ukraine. On April 25, 2023, Biden announced his intention to run for a second term as president in 2024."

Why does this list him signing laws? That doesn't seem notable, just puff pieces for the president. It also doesn't mention anything controversial. Why not mention his controversial signing of a bill that ended a railroad strike , or his approval of the controversial Willow Project? or even just critcism of his Afghanistan withdrawal in the lede. The Donald Trump article, rightfully so, mentions criticism. Why doesn't this one? Esolo5002 (talk) 05:53, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

I think I agree. There needs to be a discussion about how involved Biden was in much these laws or if he just signed them. I think it's fine to mention them in the body, but I'm not sure they are lead worthy. Iamreallygoodatcheckers 06:00, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

I think there should be serious discussion on scrapping the CHIPS and Science Act and the Respect of Marriage Act from the lead. The former is a bipartisan law that gave funding for semi-conductors and tech stuff (is this a huge deal for a lead mention and is this the work of Congress more so than Biden?.. I think it's no to the first question and yes to the second). The Respect for Marriage Act is kind of the same deal: it's not very impactful since gay marriage has been legal for several years now and, again, this is from Congress more so than Biden.

Some things that do need to be mentioned are the Inflation Reduction Act, probably the IIJA (I'm open to discussion..), dealings with Russia-Ukraine war, Afghanistan withdrawal, Ketanji Brown Jackson, and Paris Climate agreement (but, I'm open to broader discussion of his environmental policy as a substitute). And, I really don't know about AUKUS.

Furthermore, I think some chronological reordering would be helpful. The FRA of 2023 may need to mentioned if developed in body. We need to stop including clauses like "...covering tax reform, deficit reduction, climate change and healthcare", "As president, he has addressed the COVID-19 pandemic and subsequent recession", and "...to prevent a default" because these are empty, one-sided proclamations and oversimplifications that fail to adequately consider the breadth of perspectives on the issues and their real-world effects. Such statements make this read as a fluff piece in favor of Biden. Instead, we should be focusing on the significant changes that Biden the man has spear-headed or oversaw and perhaps their significant effects. Iamreallygoodatcheckers 06:36, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Personally I like the inclusion of the CHIPS and Science Act. It's an act of Congress, but one that Biden has campaigned on and promoted extensively. Same with the negotiation to avert default. Andre🚐 07:36, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

To be clear, the default stuff is fine to mention imo, but we can’t because it’s not mentioned at all in the body, as of now. Iamreallygoodatcheckers 07:40, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

I second CHIPS; it was a landmark bill.

Added mention of the debt-ceiling to the body. Would appreciate any copyedits; I'm on holiday and don't have time to edit it as well as I'd have liked. DFlhb (talk) 09:53, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

I've made changes to the proposition below that include CHIPS and default. Iamreallygoodatcheckers 05:39, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

A working proposal

On January 20, 2021, at the age of 78, Biden became the oldest president in U.S. history, the first to have a female vice president, and the first from Delaware. Biden restored America's membership in the Paris Agreement, and he signed a $1.9 trillion economic stimulus package in response to the recession caused by the COVID-19 pandemic, as well as a bill investing in infrastructure and the CHIPS and Science Act. Aspects of Biden's Build Back Better Plan were scaled back and presented in the Inflation Reduction Act that was passed by Congress and signed into law by Biden in 2022. The economy during Biden's presidency has been hallmarked by GDP growth and job creation amid significantly-elevated inflation. He appointed Ketanji Brown Jackson to the Supreme Court. In 2023, Biden and congressional Republicans prevented a default by negotiating a deal to raise the debt ceiling. In foreign policy, Biden oversaw the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan that ended the war in Afghanistan, during which the Afghan government collapsed and the Taliban seized control. He has responded to the Russian invasion of Ukraine by imposing sanctions on Russia and authorizing foreign aid and weapons shipments to Ukraine. On April 25, 2023, Biden announced his intention to run for a second term as president in 2024.

This is a proposal that I've written up that highlights what I'm thinking are the most significant aspects of Biden's presidency and what is emphasized in this article. Now I'm open to your in-put. Iamreallygoodatcheckers 07:14, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Much improved. Esolo5002 (talk) 14:38, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 June 2023

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Joe Biden's maternal great-grandfather worked in the railroad industry as both a locomotive engineer and a railroad inspector. Bgreenland616 (talk) 10:38, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Medium is not considered reliable per WP:RSP — Czello 10:55, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

References

Greenland, Bradley. "The Family Tree of President Joe Biden". Medium.com.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 June 2023

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Add first description the accomplishment: He is oldest person elected president at age 77. Biden celebrated a birthday between Election Day and Inauguration Day making him 78 when sworn into office. Ak34567 (talk) 04:35, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

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