Talk:Rashidun Caliphate - Misplaced Pages

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Index 1

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invasion of ibrean panuselia

Muslim conquered the spain + portugal in 711 A.D, but in 654 A.D they invaded it for first time by the orders of Caliph Uthman, in 655 when the agitation against uthman grew muslim armies were unable to go further and withdrawl from there outposts, thus it was a only short occupation of the coastal region of Andulus in spain. Thats it, some user here messed up the article because of the same issue so i have explained it now there should be no confussion.

Mohammad Adil 09:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

The Visigoths conquered Byzantine territory of Spania along the southern coast of Iberia. There are no Visigothic records of the Visigoths encountering Muslim outposts on Iberia's southern coast; which one would expect if they were there when the Visigoths took over - the Visigothic kingdom, especially in its later phases, is well documented. Nor have any archaeological remains been found of such sites. Perhaps the references are to shortlived outposts that were abandoned before the Visigoths took over "Spania" or perhaps these incursions never got beyond being anything more than exploratory raids. After all, the Arab records on this are vague and limited.

Actually these were not whole scale invasions, they were what we can more accurately call footholds on ibrean coast lines in 655, before starting some serious actions inland, Muslims abandon those outposts along with coast line of north-western Africa with the start of civil war one year later in 656.

الله أكبرMohammad Adil 16:33, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Mention of term "Haq Char Yaar"?

I'd run across the term "Haq Char Yaar" in some other place on the internet, and managed to track down that it means "the first four caliphs" and is pretty commonly used in Pakistani culture. Is there any way we can work in mention of this term into the article? MatthewVanitas (talk) 13:40, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Really! There is no reason to work a modern Urdu phrase into an article on the first four caliphs 1400 years ago. Not even the Anglicized phrase "Rashidun Caliphate" was used fourteen hundred years ago! It was invented in Arabic much later as a handy historical label. Can't we find a professional historian fluent in English to write this article? The first thing to check is, "When were these four caliphs first called the "Rashidun Caliphs"? They were not so called in their lifetimes, they were not so called in their century, they were no so called in any language for centuries. Who was the first Muslim historian to use the phrase? 100.8.239.196 (talk) 00:29, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

"Patriarchal Caliphate" listed at Redirects for discussion

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"Expansion of the Arab empire" listed at Redirects for discussion

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Hassan as the 5th Sunni caliph

From my understanding, Sunnis consider there to be 5 rashidun caliphs, not 4. This article doesnt mention the 6 month reign of Hassan bin Ali, before handing over power to Muawiya. Surely this is a key piece of information that needs to be added?

All the bes5 86.5.202.27 (talk) 21:33, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Please see the section above, and Hasan ibn Ali#Sunni Islam for a short paragraph on fifth-rashid-caliph hypotheses (others apart from Hasan ibn Ali were also considered for this, such as Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz) based on a paper by Christopher Melchert.

My understanding is that traditionally only the first four caliphs are universally and canonically regarded by Sunnis as rashidun ("rightly-guided", understood as a religious rather than a historiographical concept, which unhelpfully is covered in a different WP article), but that in the 20th/21th centuries a limited amount of pan-islamist inspired Muslim religious scholars such as Ali al-Sallabi have picked up on suggestions found in the medieval literature that Hasan ibn Ali may also be regarded as rightly-guided (rashid). Unfortunately, no one has come up yet with a good secondary source about these modern developments, without which we can't write anything about it in our articles (see WP:SECONDARY).

Please do note though that the mainstream Sunni view has always been that only the first four caliphs were rightly-guided/rashid, and that this religious concept has to be distinguished in any case from the historiographical use of the term "Rashidun Caliphate" (the subject of this article), which among modern secular historians exclusively refers to the first four caliphs. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 17:14, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Recent edits

Expansionofthecenturies, this is a talk page. Please use it to discuss your proposals and solicit consensus, instead of repeatedly making unsourced and unexplained changes to the article. Please also see the previous discussions above. Thanks, R Prazeres (talk) 20:44, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

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