Talk:Josip Broz Tito - Misplaced Pages

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"... communist revolutionary, statesman, and later a dictator"

@Doremo: there's no doubt numerous RS can be found to support the perception Tito was a 'dictator', that is not the issue here. I'm not sure whether there is a manual of style related to this, but you can notice numerous articles of traditional 'dictators' do not stack this perception/characterization together with general facts in the very first sentence, but rather opt to properly elaborate on it down the lede: e.g. Fidel Castro, Chiang Kai-shek, Kim Jong-il, Joseph Stalin and Enver Hoxha. No one reading past the first sentence is going to miss this. -Vipz (talk) 12:48, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Fair enough. The edit summary ("well it says ...") implied that the edit had been made because the source was not explicit enough. Doremo (talk) 13:00, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

@Doremo: do you intend to integrate those sources there (with/without rewording)? -Vipz (talk) 13:32, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I can do that. I'll also change (the laudatory) description statesman to (the neutral) politician, and recast the "benevolent" bit to reflect the sources. Doremo (talk) 13:38, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

please also add a leftist perspective such as some reject his categorization as a dictator 142.54.9.83 (talk) 13:39, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

I believe the 'leftist' perspective is already covered by labeling him as 'benevolent'. -Vipz (talk) 14:04, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Now I have read it. I don’t personally believe putting “later a dictator” in the first sentence has any issues as a general description of his rule. But I am fine with describing it in other paragraphs too. However, I have also noticed that fascist dictators like Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini have been described as dictators in the first sentence. LeonChrisfield (talk) 18:21, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

The leftist “benevolent dictator perspective” does not reject the dictatorship narrative. LeonChrisfield (talk) 18:24, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

As for Joseph Stalin, it is stated in the first paragraph that he was a dictator. LeonChrisfield (talk) 18:26, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

@LeonChrisfield: there are many points-of-view among academics on a 'general description of his rule' and simplifying it to a 'later a dictator' is devoid of any context, is not WP:PROPORTIONAL and I'd say is WP:UNDUE. On top of that, also what I said about stacking perceptions with general facts. You can compare these articles to their equivalents on the professionally edited Encyclopædia Britannica, then reevaluate when and how proportionally balanced (to academic consensus) is it to describe each individual subject as just 'dictator'. –Vipz (talk) 19:11, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Vipz, vipz vipz...

@Vipz You think I haven't read your user page? I know exactly what you're trying to do, I don't want to waste time on ant-fucking around the words "Some scholars".

As much as you would wish him to be, Druže Tito is no perfect saint. Misplaced Pages is not an altar. His crimes, controversies must be covered.

If you are ignorant on what happened to the Germans of Yugoslavia, I advise you to educate yourself on the subject instead. If you know it well but are trying to sideline it... shame on you. Synotia (moan) 15:31, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

I repeat what I told you on my talk page: in the case I am mistaken and you are interested in writing a section/article about human rights under his rule, I apologize for the blunt greeting and look forward to collaboration. --Synotia (moan) 18:13, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

@Synotia: when I told you to "establish consensus on the talk page" I did not mean "post another blatant provocation" like you did here, on your talk page and in all revert summaries. I told you what to do and it's up to you to do it properly. Don't expect me to 'collaborate' with you if by collaboration you mean 'ignore all the personal attacks, accusations, and provocative and inflammatory comments made along the way'. –Vipz (talk) 18:40, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

I told you what to do and it's up to you to do it properly.

wtf? Who are you to talk to me like that? Moreover I don’t know what you’re talking about.

I talk to you like a Titoist, you talk to me like a dog. Great. Synotia (moan) 19:13, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

For the third time, I offer you apologies and to work on the article together to include Tito’s more controversial side.

if you don’t want to, that’s fine, but please don’t selectively obstruct me with baseless WP:POV allegations. Synotia (moan) 19:16, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Captions need to be succinct. Usually, there should not be more than three lines of text in a caption. Captions are not entrefilets—insertions of additional "interesting" facts to serve as examples. They are not supposed to provide context for the prose, by providing extra specificity. Rather, the image provides illustration to the prose, the prose provides relevance and context for the image, and the caption is there as a mere necessity: only to bridge a possible gap between the prose and the image, to make it more certain that the reader will benefit from the illustrative function of the image. The image is not an illustration to the caption; it is not subordinated to the caption. Rather, the image is subordinated to the prose, and the caption is subordinated, very much so, to both the image and the prose. My suggestion is that you add what you think is missing in the prose, to the prose, and not insert a whole unsourced paragraph through a functionally false caption. —Alalch E. 20:14, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

NKVD Officer?

In and category below it shows, it says that Tito was a nkvd officer. If its true? there's no evidence of that in the article itself Ataman (talk) 22:09, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

He's been accused of participating in the killing of leading Yugoslav comrades, such as Milan Gorkić. This biography is faulty. TheUzbek (talk) 22:13, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

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