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Frequently Asked Questions Is white genocide a myth? There are no reliable sources suggesting that the conspiracy theory is not a political myth. There are many reliable sources indicating that it is, such as: "The Myth of White Genocide" Harper's, March 2019 "White genocide: A dangerous myth employed by racists" The Irish Times, August 2019 "The Hate Report: The story behind Trump’s South Africa tweet" Reveal, August 2018 "The South Africans pushing the 'white genocide' myth" CNN, November 2018 "The dangerous myth of 'white genocide'" SPLC, August 2018 "Facebook allowed advertisers to target users interested in “'white genocide" — even in wake of Pittsburgh massacre" The Intercept, November 2018 "The deadly myth of 'White Genocide'" Australian Broadcasting Corporation, March 2019 Are white farmers being targeted in South Africa? While many farmers in South Africa have been targeted in attacks against landowners, there is no evidence that the attackers are targeting people because they are white. This topic is covered in some of the references above and at South African farm attacks. Why doesn't this article include extrapolations of human genetic phenotype expression into the future? Misplaced Pages is not a crystal ball. There is no way to validate the accuracy of any such predictions, and those predictions which show a wide demographic shift are based on assumptions which are both uncertain, and likely to substantially change the outcome of the extrapolations if they are wrong. There are at least as many factors at play as expressed alleles in the human genome, leading to confidence intervals much wider than the range of predictions.

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Merge request

It's the same concept, predicated on the same logic, both in western culture. Bart Terpstra (talk) 09:04, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

FUCK NO! 63.152.4.6 (talk) 02:59, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Reading this back, the argument is that Umvolkung is the object version of this page, i.e. it's just a concept and this is the happening version, it's a proposed plot that is supposedly happening.

Shouldn't be merged, just linked. Bart Terpstra (talk) 21:29, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

add attached source

The attached link/article states the following: “What we are wanting to do is to have Black people start migrating back to these states. If we migrate 40 million Black people back to these sates, we can control the economy, the education and the politics of these states, and we can do this without the need to fire one bullet,” said Omowale. “And once Black people move in, white people will move out.” = Is it Time for Black People to Reconsider a Black Nation Within a Nation and Armed Self-Defense? = Posted byBy David Love | Published on: July 17, 2016 | Updated on July 18, 2016 https://atlantablackstar.com/2016/07/17/is-it-time-for-black-people-to-reconsider-a-black-nation-within-a-nation-and-armed-self-defense/ Jlbnt1 (talk) 09:52, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Suggestion: Add as purported means of an alleged white genocide: promotion of pornography, promotion of lgbt (https://en.wikipedia.org/LGBT_grooming_conspiracy_theory)

Hey, i am new to wikipedia and i do not have enough edits to edit semi-protected articles. I believe that other purported means of an alleged white genocide include:

Alleged promotion of pornography (leading to lower birthrates) source: Among Some Hate Groups, Porn Is Viewed as a Conspiracy - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

And the alleged promotion of LGBT ideology (which adherents of the theory believe is not or rarely naturally present and instead a result of environment) (https://en.wikipedia.org/LGBT_grooming_conspiracy_theory) Source: Antisemitism & Anti-LGBTQ+ Hate Converge in Extremist and Conspiratorial Beliefs | ADL

Additionally promotion of birth control / casual hookup culture is seen as an alleged mean of decreasing the number of white people. I could not find a source for this.

These alleged means are parts of the overarching "promotion of low fertility rates" which is already mentioned as one of the alleged means, however i believe that it may be relevant to mention these underlying alleged reasons as well, as they are antisemitic tropes and might partially contribute to why adherents of the white genocide theory are almost always opponents of these topics. Anonymeneer (talk) 06:29, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Your suggestions are not unreasonable, but could you provide links to the suggested sources? Dimadick (talk) 06:59, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your response.

When i posted the link to the sources in my original comment, wikipedia automatically replaced it with the headline. I assumed that it would be posted as a hyperlink, but it seems not.

My source from the New York Times for alleged promotion of pornography:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/07/us/hate-groups-porn-conspiracy.html

My source from adl.org for the alleged promotion of LGBT ideology:

https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/antisemitism-anti-lgbtq-hate-converge-extremist-and-conspiratorial-beliefs

Aditionally this might be a better source for the alleged promotion of LGBT ideology because ADL is not necessarily a news source:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/antisemitism-transphobia-lgbtq-hate-1.6729223 Anonymeneer (talk) 07:23, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

There was also a quote from the recent Wired interview with Grimes, where she suggested Elon Musk's transphobia is related to "the fertility thing", which sounds like pretty similar Great Replacement conspiracy stuff.

Levy: You mentioned Twitter. Did you call out to Elon that you were disturbed by some of his tweets?
Grimes: I don’t want to talk about this too much. But take the trans thing. After that, we had a big, long conversation. I was like, “I want to dissect why you’re so stressed about this.” Getting to the heart of what Elon says helps me get to the heart of what other people’s issues are, because it’s this über guy situation. And it came down to pretty much every way that you transition can cause fertility issues. I was like, OK, you don’t hate trans people, you hate woke culture. I get that it can be annoying, and you have concerns about the fertility thing. So let’s figure it out, because there’s a lot of fertility tech that could be innovated that would help trans people have kids, which would be great and would solve a lot of problems. He’s just on Twitter, and he’s unhappy with woke people, and the arguments happened.
— Steven Levy (8 August 2023). "Grimes on Living Forever, Dying on Mars, and Giving Elon Musk Ideas for His Best (Worst) Tweets". Wired. Archived from the original on 8 August 2023. Retrieved 11 August 2023.

The article Great Replacement explicitly mentions in the lead that

The original theory states that … white European populations at large are being demographically and culturally replaced …through mass migration, demographic growth and a drop in the birth rate of white Europeans.

(my emphasis), with 3 references. It's followed up a link to a paper cited for Great Replacement conspiracy theory in the United States and 2 refs against

Mainstream scholars have dismissed these claims as rooted in a misunderstanding of demographic statistics and premised upon an unscientific, racist worldview.

Neither article currently mentions the existence of LGBTQ+ people (and our increasing comfort with being out) as a part of the Great Replacement conspiracy theory, though.

— OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk) 09:49, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Polish Facebook pages?

The article says: "Hundreds of Polish Facebook groups such as "Stop White Genocide" have produced and disseminated images..." yet the original source states: "hundreds of facebook groups such as ‘Stop White Genocide’ – run from Poland – create and disseminate image...". So the source gives an example of one (1) FB group run from Poland, but the article transforms it into "hundreds of Polish FB groups". This shoud be corrected or, preferably, the whole section on Poland shoud be removed as the it is unsubstantiated (apart from this "one FB group run from Poland"). 31.182.243.156 (talk) 10:23, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

"White people are not dying out, will not die out, and are not facing extermination."

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Coming here as a newcomer, is it not a bit weird that in an wikipedia article there is a claim about the future? Personally, I think this is a bit weird for a place such as Misplaced Pages.

What kind of source proofs such a statement about something that has not happened yet (aka the future)? How would you even prove this, that something "will" not happen? I get the general point but I feel like such statements should be changed. 2A02:A466:48EB:2:A182:E67D:8C80:F39A (talk) 16:42, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Are you saying that the given sources do not state that? 331dot (talk) 16:46, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Please see "Is white genocide a myth?" in the "frequently asked questions" box at the top of this page. Ivanvector (/_Edits) 16:50, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

I've read the FAQ, and I feel there it is stated more correctly. It doesn't make the sentence in the main article any less botched. I think it would be better suited to replace the sentence in the article with "There is no evidence that white people are dying out (...)" As it stands now, it is rather pseudoscientific and again, making claims about an unknown future. 2A02:A466:48EB:2:A182:E67D:8C80:F39A (talk) 10:14, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

The logic is like this:

• You are walking Eastbound on some street in Kansas City.
• Someone stops you and says, "Stop! you are going to drown!" reasoning that if you go on walking in the same direction for long enough, you will fall into the Atlantic.
• It is justified to tell him, "no, I am not going to drown". Nothing "pseudoscientific" about it. The difference to "there is no evidence that I am going to drown" is minuscule.

Subpopulations change all the time. They increase and decrease. A decrease is not evidence of extermination. Can we stop this? --Hob Gadling (talk) 11:10, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

I am afraid I am not getting my point across.

In your example is an extremely simplified case of reality, and both the person stopping you as well as the person are actually making predictions about the future. But in our real world equivalent, the situation is way more complex. With way more variables and bigger timeframes, the predictions get way more messed up. It is like predicting the cause of death of a toddler based on what it ate for breakfast.

The sentence "White people are not dying out, will not die out, and are not facing extermination" does not define a clear amount of time nor gives clear conditions which makes you able to actually prove it.

Nobody knows what is going to happen in the future. We might all die in nuclear winter 10 years from now. Society might change in such a way that nobody will ever predict. Was anyone in the 1800 going to predict WWI and WWII was going to happen? I personally do not like to see such statements on Misplaced Pages and would like to think of the future as unknown.

By the way, I wholeheartedly agree with your statement "Subpopulations change all the time. They increase and decrease. A decrease is not evidence of extermination". I think this is a way better formulated sentence. But I do not see the relevance of bringing in this in, since it is not the topic of discussion.

This is my point, if you still not agree then we must agree to disagree. I do like a bit of intellectual discourse. 2A02:A466:48EB:1:50A0:7D02:A3B7:458F (talk) 13:41, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

The statement is not referring to some possible future event. It does not say "will not ever". The definition of the white genocide conspiracy theory is laid out at the start of the article. The point of the sentence is that the claims by the believers in white genocide are dead wrong. Not that there is a lack of evidence. It is a purely racist belief with no basis in fact and we should not equivocate. O3000, Ret. (talk) 14:37, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

"are facing" and "will not" are, to my understanding, indicative about something happening in the future.

None of this dismisses Misplaced Pages articles of being neutral and correct in its statements. 89.205.132.179 (talk) 15:05, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

The theory states that it is going on now. The current text correctly states that it is not. Obviously this planet will not exist forever. O3000, Ret. (talk) 15:33, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

You say the claims by the believers are dead wrong. Maybe it would help if the article explained specifically who those believers are, and what are the claims that are dead wrong. The info is probably buried in the article somewhere, but if it is so important to say that the claims are wrong, then it should be clear about what claims are wrong. When looking, I found claims that were not attributed to anyone, and claims that were not actually wrong. Roger (talk) 17:00, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

The first paragraph lays out the claims. O3000, Ret. (talk) 17:38, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

I tried chasing down those links. Sure, there are people who promote interracial marriage, racial integration, immigration, etc. There are others expressing adverse opinions about those things. There are sources complaining about far right conspiracy theories. There are a lot of straw man attacks. I am just not finding the specific claims that are dead wrong. The article should explain them more directly. Roger (talk) 18:13, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

The white genocide, white extinction, or white replacement conspiracy theory is a white supremacist conspiracy theory that states that there is a deliberate plot, often blamed on Jews, to promote miscegenation, interracial marriage, mass non-white immigration, racial integration, low fertility rates, abortion, pornography, LGBT identities, governmental land-confiscation from whites, organised violence, and eliminationism in white-founded countries in order to cause the extinction of whites through forced assimilation, mass immigration, and violent genocide.

That's the lead and the body details the history with 333 citations. What part of these beliefs are not dead wrong? O3000, Ret. (talk) 18:35, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Those are not specific claims. There is no way to tell is they are true or false. They are vague and subjective. A specific claim might be that A says that Jewish organization B said in C to promote miscegenation by D, but the claim was proved false by E. With 333 references, surely there are some examples of claims that are dead wrong. Roger (talk) 18:48, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Surely there are examples of what is said in the lead. But your example makes no sense to me unless you think miscegenation is a wrong. Besides, it is not the claim in the lead. The lead says this is in order to cause the extinction of whites.... O3000, Ret. (talk) 19:23, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

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